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super fart shooter posted:Did I really just see another player parry a giant crab. Can you really do that You can poise-break them by attacking enough andthen do an R1 attack while standing in front of their "mouth" while it's prone. Alternatively if you R1 at just the right time when it presents its belly (before doing a ground smash or before spitting at you) you also riposte them.
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May 10, 2016 20:56
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InequalityGodzilla posted:Thinking of using a save backup in order to respec into this build as a dedicated PvP thing: Spent a couple hours last night using this build for mad phantom invasions at the pontiff bonfire. Decided to fiddle with the stats a bit, and ended up swapping out some of the equipment. Using a Leo ring and carthus milkring instead of the two defense boosters, and I dropped a few points of vigor and put them into vitality, giving me enough carry weight to equip the lightning rapier and a lightning ricard's rapier on the right, and one of the crest shields and the composite bow on the left. The milk ring ends up being incredibly useful when combined with the huge amount of stamina and fast attacks that the rapiers provide, because once you get the timing down you remain pretty much completely invisible so long as you keep rolling which lets you make all sort of feints and bluffs that keep the other guy guessing, before popping out to make one or two quick strikes. Having the two different rapiers might seem redundant but it ends up working incredibly well. Ricard's rapier has slightly longer reach and that hard hitting skill, so I stick with the regular rapier for a while and then swap midway through the fight to throw them off, then switch back to start using the plain rapier's stance skills. The composite bow is pretty useful for harassing people that won't sit still long enough for a rapier strike to land, especially if you start spamming poison arrows. Miracles ended up being a less useful than I expected them to be since I regularly forget to buff myself pre-battle, but I've been using healing, regen, and tears of denial which end up being pretty useful. The high stamina means I can usually run off if things go south, and then heal while safe. Overall I died more than I won, but the build is loads of fun to play as. I generally played souls games as a bog standard sword & board kind of guy, so getting into fights where I spend the entire time dodging is a really entertaining change up. It's also great fun because if you keep the fight up long enough you can usually tell when the other player starts to get frustrated and reckless because you just. Won't. Hold. Still! I managed to get some hate mail from someone when I managed to kill them after a 10 minute fight where I never took a single hit. Biggest flaw I've found is that man does it suffer when fighting more than one person. The entire way I play is dancing around, making quick little strikes and wearing them down, until they get sloppy and leave themselves open, at which point I hammer them with either rapier's multi-hit attacks. Can't really do that when I have to spend the entire time dodging because I've got two after me instead of just one. Other main problem is I'm finding that the hitboxes of a bunch of the lance weapons are wonky as hell. The nameless king's spear especially ruined my poo poo every time I encountered someone with it because it kept managing to hit me even when I was visibly out of reach.
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May 10, 2016 20:58
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Anal Surgery posted:I have 4 characters going right now with some ideas for a few more, but I wish there was a super hard hidden shortcut down to Farron's or something. Like, some crazy-rear end jump from Lothric that would take you straight to the demon on the bridge and down to the Watchdog. Think about it, it would ridiculously hard to try to sprint through Farron's as a SL10 wimp. High risk, high reward, much like sprinting straight to Tomb of the Giants or 4 Kings was. A shortcut that would let me skip the Abyss Watchers so I can save them for last would be super welcome. I like those guys and hate that I have to mow through them to get to some of the stuff I want.
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May 10, 2016 21:08
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Tykero posted:Hornet Ring is fine. Parrying is mostly fine outside of some real jank rear end weirdness that can happen with the bucklers, but the ring is pretty dumb to be honest.
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May 10, 2016 21:09
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I don't know why, but I am really, really, like, not upset, but like, frustrated by how many people don't know that Anri has a good ending. Part of it is why would you ever think there was an assassin in the church, or where they might be. It's like From is intentionally encouraging just letting her eat it. I think it's just because I like getting every character's resolution.
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May 10, 2016 21:12
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Gologle posted:I don't know why, but I am really, really, like, not upset, but like, frustrated by how many people don't know that Anri has a good ending. Part of it is why would you ever think there was an assassin in the church, or where they might be. It's like From is intentionally encouraging just letting her eat it. I think it's just because I like getting every character's resolution.
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May 10, 2016 21:17
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Gologle posted:I don't know why, but I am really, really, like, not upset, but like, frustrated by how many people don't know that Anri has a good ending. Part of it is why would you ever think there was an assassin in the church, or where they might be. It's like From is intentionally encouraging just letting her eat it. I think it's just because I like getting every character's resolution. The problem is that Anri's 'good' ending is pointless for you, the player. Getting the alternate ending is faster, easier, and reaps more rewards.
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May 10, 2016 21:17
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I love the style of the Crescent Axe, but I hardly hear anything about it. I guess since it's a halberd without pokes or spins arts, while also being a "big axe" with no notable hyper armor or parry immunity?
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May 10, 2016 21:18
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There's a good ending for Anri? I never bothered with anything besides marriage. Also the first time I married a random hollow was in the cutscene at the end of the game, the second time Anri was. 
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May 10, 2016 21:19
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Yardbomb posted:Parrying is mostly fine outside of some real jank rear end weirdness that can happen with the bucklers, but the ring is pretty dumb to be honest. It costs a ring slot, literally the second most mechanically character defining piece of equipment after you weapon(s), and you can only utilize it in very specific scenarios that all involve outplaying your opponent to a degree above just hitting them. It's really not a problem.
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May 10, 2016 21:20
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Yeah I wouldn't say Anri has a 'good' ending. One thing that bugs me about the questlines in general is that without consulting a guide you'd probably miss most of the NPC quests. You wrapped up the Cathedral? Great, obviously your first instinct should be to go back to the previous bonfire and walk over to a well. You actually ran in to Anri and helped with her quest? Actually it's not finished, you just have to go to a vague ledge from 8 zones ago because of course she'll be there, dummy.
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May 10, 2016 21:22
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Gologle posted:I don't know why, but I am really, really, like, not upset, but like, frustrated by how many people don't know that Anri has a good ending.
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May 10, 2016 21:23
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Yeah, you're right, good ending is the wrong word. "Resolution" is the better word. Anri doesn't get her resolution by being tricked by an assassin from Londor and getting face stabbed either by them or the player, but she does avenge Horace, herself, and the other countless people cannibalized by Aldritch if she lives.
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May 10, 2016 21:24
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How the hell do you do the shield busting kick? I'll admit it's been a while since I played any of the other souls games but I could've sworn that in all of them it was left analog button+pressing forward+light attack, all done at the same time. But now it seems like that only works maybe 1/3rd of the time, and almost never when I actually need it to. Did they change it so that you don't do it all at once or what? Edit: I might be mixing up the analog buttons here, don't have the controller in front of me. But I know it's the same one as in the last 3 games.
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May 10, 2016 21:25
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MrLonghair posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylIXhcVAP08 99% of this video is just great chaos fire orb 
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May 10, 2016 21:27
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No you're doing it right, but working about 1/3 of the time sounds about right. I do the same combination every time and sometimes I'll actually kick, sometimes I won't. Plus, some weapons don't seem to allow you to kick, Estoc does this flashy swipe/backstep move instead, which isn't very useful.
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May 10, 2016 21:28
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turtlecrunch posted:There's a good ending for Anri? I never bothered with anything besides marriage. You help em kill Aldritch. It's about as good an ending as a Dark Souls character can have, where they achieve their goal even if it means going hollow after (or dying, in Siegward's case). Cultisto posted:Yeah I wouldn't say Anri has a 'good' ending. I think the intended path is that you open up the big Cathedral main doors, which is what triggers Patches and Sieg to show up on your next load in. Then you... die? Or something... you end up at the bonfire, before beating the Deacons, anyway. The path to the main doors takes you past Sieg's well, and then Patches is just to the right and the bridge is up when it wasn't before, so you want to investigate. Or if you take another shortcut and don't go by the well, you'll still see Patches in the onion armour, and start wondering how/where he got that, and maybe go looking for Sieg. Maybe. Anri can also show up at the little puddle where Horace was, depending on how you handled him, which is a much more intuitive spot.
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May 10, 2016 21:29
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Gologle posted:Yeah, you're right, good ending is the wrong word. "Resolution" is the better word. Anri doesn't get her resolution by being tricked by an assassin from Londor and getting face stabbed either by them or the player, but she does avenge Horace, herself, and the other countless people cannibalized by Aldritch if she lives. (game ending spoiler) Actually Anri ends up in my world where Aldrich is also dead and settles happily to married life with me and my clipmullet.
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May 10, 2016 21:30
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Mazerunner posted:Anri can also show up at the little puddle where Horace was, depending on how you handled him, which is a much more intuitive spot. Yeah I've done it both ways but same issue here. IF you even find the lake and notice the somewhat hidden cave at the right time THEN you'll see Horace and though she does mention Horace when you kill Aldritch it's a pretty big stretch that it implies she'll go all the way back down there to find him, and you really have absolutely zero reason to go there ever again, unless you've read a guide on how to do the questline.
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May 10, 2016 21:32
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e: pointless post
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May 10, 2016 21:35
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Tykero posted:It costs a ring slot, literally the second most mechanically character defining piece of equipment after you weapon(s), and you can only utilize it in very specific scenarios that all involve outplaying your opponent to a degree above just hitting them. Ring slots are worth less in this game than they've ever been. All the traditionally strong rings are next to useless. Hornet ring is basically the best ring in the game for PVP and if you want to PVP at all it's basically mandatory. The risk/reward on parry attempts with hornet ring is hilariously skewed in situations other than ~honour duels~ because the punishes for them are not consistent or rewarding enough. Add in that both players are using hornet ring and have parrying tools and the game gets really silly. At the same time I don't want hornet ring ripostes to do less. It's more I want non-hornet ring ripostes to do more (and hornet ring to be adjusted to do around the same damage they do now), and backstabs to do a lot more. Backstabs are much much harder to land, but they basically decided to just completely gut them because they can't make proper netcode. It's a problem when they're the single hardest read you can do to punish somebody attempting a parry, but can basically be ignored in invasion situations. edit: Also a ring to reduce riposte damage would actually be interesting and be more of a choice than the "do I murder 80% of people in 1 hit if I parry them" ring. Parry recovery could also be increased but that's probably not as important as things like nerfing rolls or adding more tools to deal with estus in invasions. Overall parrying is probably fine in no-heal duels but the other things could serve to make even those more interesting. bebaloorpabopalo fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 10, 2016 |
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May 10, 2016 21:35
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Despite everyone else being good at parrying, I seem terrible at it. Is there any trick to the timing or do I just have to keep trying against random hollows until it works?
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May 10, 2016 21:40
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Another thing to add is that, mistiming a parry is way more punishing than the other person actively punishing it on purpose. A partial parry, at least with a fist weapon, depletes all of your stamina and you end up taking more hits than you would if you just stood there and did nothing.
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May 10, 2016 21:41
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BitterAvatar posted:Despite everyone else being good at parrying, I seem terrible at it. Is there any trick to the timing or do I just have to keep trying against random hollows until it works? PvE parrying is by and large never worth it except for style points. There's a couple bosses where it's supremely effective but every new enemy has different parry timings for every attack and it really doesn't seem worth the effort to figure it out.
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May 10, 2016 21:45
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:Ring slots are worth less in this game than they've ever been. All the traditionally strong rings are next to useless. Hornet ring is basically the best ring in the game for PVP and if you want to PVP at all it's basically mandatory. The risk/reward on parry attempts with hornet ring is hilariously skewed in situations other than ~honour duels~ because the punishes for them are not consistent or rewarding enough. Add in that both players are using hornet ring and have parrying tools and the game gets really silly. Ring slots are nowhere near worthless. The number of good rings in this game outstrips both other Dark Souls games easily. Hornet Ring is mandatory in PvP if you're going to parry, but that's not a problem. It's just an optimization solution. Punishing a parry spammer is exceptionally easy, and I'm not sure what you mean by not rewarding enough, since countering a parry generally nets me 30~70% of someone's HP on the punish. bebaloorpabopalo posted:Another thing to add is that, mistiming a parry is way more punishing than the other person actively punishing it on purpose. A partial parry, at least with a fist weapon, depletes all of your stamina and you end up taking more hits than you would if you just stood there and did nothing. Level up END. Yes, a partial parry takes a lot of stamina, but you also don't get hitstunned, so you can roll away instantly. You take a portion of one hit instead of two hits.
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May 10, 2016 21:52
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BitterAvatar posted:Despite everyone else being good at parrying, I seem terrible at it. Is there any trick to the timing or do I just have to keep trying against random hollows until it works? Random Hollows can actually be rather tough to learn to parry, since their attacks are so weird. Most enemies aren't worth learning to parry, but some can be seriously trivialized by it. For example, the dagger snakemen and giant snakemen, Londor Knights, NPC phantoms, Gundyr and Sulyvahn are all great enemies to parry.
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May 10, 2016 21:55
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Mazerunner posted:I think the intended path is that you open up the big Cathedral main doors, which is what triggers Patches and Sieg to show up on your next load in. Then you... die? Or something... you end up at the bonfire, before beating the Deacons, anyway. The path to the main doors takes you past Sieg's well, and then Patches is just to the right and the bridge is up when it wasn't before, so you want to investigate. Or if you take another shortcut and don't go by the well, you'll still see Patches in the onion armour, and start wondering how/where he got that, and maybe go looking for Sieg. Maybe. I would have never known that Siegward was in the well if I hadn't read about it because even just passing by to go up the stairs to the graveyard area isn't close enough to trigger him yelling for help, like you have to walk right up to the well.
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May 10, 2016 21:59
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Tykero posted:Punishing a parry spammer is exceptionally easy, and I'm not sure what you mean by not rewarding enough, since countering a parry generally nets me 30~70% of someone's HP on the punish. Yes punishing bad players for doing bad things is easy. What about the risk involved for guessing a good player will parry, and they don't? The punishment is equal to what you'd get for punishing the parry. What if you guess they won't parry, and they do? Now you're (probably) dead. It's not an interesting dynamic. Even with the situation of a bad player spamming parry, in an invasion situation it doesn't matter at all. They will roll away and heal. This is less related to the issue of parries in general, but it all ties into it. Bad players can get away with spamming parry hoping to get lucky in these situations, and it can be frustrating, even if the problem isn't necessarily parries being too strong. Either way I think backstabs should do a lot more damage. quote:Level up END. Yes, a partial parry takes a lot of stamina, but you also don't get hitstunned, so you can roll away instantly. You take a portion of one hit instead of two hits. Even with a lot of stamina a partial with fist weapons will drain you completely, especially because you probably didn't have full stamina in the first place. Against fast weapons (dark sword) you will eat a partial, then eat a 2nd hit, then eat another R1 R1 before you have enough stamina to roll.
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May 10, 2016 22:05
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Tykero posted:Random Hollows can actually be rather tough to learn to parry, since their attacks are so weird. Also black, silver and pontiff knights and maybe darkwraiths. Basically anything that's some combination of strong, tough, fast and aggressive where getting into extended duels or where you face more than one at a time is dangerous and worth learning how to parry. Basic hollows aren't, because they're weak enough already, and they have weird timings and will use any opening to do a flurry that really hurts. Can you parry the crucifix monsters?
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May 10, 2016 22:10
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I'm trying to think of actually useful non-casting related rings and not coming up with much. Steel protection ring is nice albeit not exceptional, ring of favour is kind of mediocre until +2 outside of being a nice chunk of stamina, hornet ring is hornet ring, chloranthy is nice but not very impressive either. Havel's if you want to do super heavy fashion I guess? The +5 stat rings can save you some levels I guess. Silvercat and obscuring rings are pretty good for invading.
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May 10, 2016 22:11
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Sun Princess ring is nice for topping up your health when going through levels. Evil Eye ring too.
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May 10, 2016 22:12
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Tykero posted:The number of good rings in this game outstrips both other Dark Souls games easily. list good rings in ds1/2/3
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May 10, 2016 22:16
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:Yes punishing bad players for doing bad things is easy. What about the risk involved for guessing a good player will parry, and they don't? The punishment is equal to what you'd get for punishing the parry. What if you guess they won't parry, and they do? Now you're (probably) dead. It's not an interesting dynamic. If you're up against a good player, the parry game is complex and I find it quite interesting. It puts a lot of mindgames into the fight that are otherwise absent. It's the very definition of dynamic. Some of my most exciting fights are against people who play a good parry game. A bad player spamming parry dies pretty quick. If they roll off to heal you pressure them. Just get up in their face and either whack them twice when they go for the Estus, or punish their parry spam again and finish them off. I regularly parry with a Caestus, and my partial parries do not completely drain my stamina except on ultragreat weapons, which do not have time to land a second hit before I can roll. Perhaps you need more END or to not attempt parries with most of your stamina depleted. If you continue to have problems, you can switch to a parry shield for slightly more forgiving stamina drain (and parry frames). Fist weapon parries are utilized mainly for their speed, not their reliability. If you get lots of partial parries you should use something else until you're more confident on your timing.
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May 10, 2016 22:16
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Mazerunner posted:You help em kill Aldritch. It's about as good an ending as a Dark Souls character can have, where they achieve their goal even if it means going hollow after (or dying, in Siegward's case). This is true, and it's also what I most dislike about these games. Why must everything suck so much? I would love these games if the central core message wasn't "Everything is poo poo and will be poo poo forever! You can't win, no one can, see ya".
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May 10, 2016 22:28
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Bobfly posted:This is true, and it's also what I most dislike about these games. Why must everything suck so much? I would love these games if the central core message wasn't "Everything is poo poo and will be poo poo forever! You can't win, no one can, see ya". solaire and benhart both succeed in their missions to become the sun and become the true wielder of the greatblue moonsword which is why they are the best characters
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May 10, 2016 22:32
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Fereydun posted:list good rings in ds1/2/3 No, do your own homework. Einwand posted:I'm trying to think of actually useful non-casting related rings and not coming up with much. Steel protection ring is nice albeit not exceptional, ring of favour is kind of mediocre until +2 outside of being a nice chunk of stamina, hornet ring is hornet ring, chloranthy is nice but not very impressive either. Havel's if you want to do super heavy fashion I guess? The +5 stat rings can save you some levels I guess. Silvercat and obscuring rings are pretty good for invading. Life Ring is very good, the protection rings are actually very powerful, Prisoner's Chain gives you fifteen stats for a 10% absorption penalty (partially mitigated by the flat damage reduction provided by the stats it gives you), Bloodring gives you 33% more invincibility frames on your rolls, etc. There are fewer "must have" rings compared to DS1 and DS2, no argument there. As a result, though, there are more rings that are actually viable (unless you're a caster, in which case equip your two or three damage rings and deal I guess). The overall number of good rings is greater.
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May 10, 2016 22:34
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Fereydun posted:list good rings in ds1/2/3 DS1: Leo, FAP, cloranthy, hornet, havel's, bellowing dragoncrest, sun's firstborn, red tearstone, dark wood grain. 2 ring slots, FAP was mandatory DS2: Leo, Nth dragon, ring of blades, Flynn, cloranthy kinda, life ring, I don't remember all the magic ones but probably a lot, gower's. 4 ring slots, ring of blades was mandatory and usually 3rd dragon too. DS3: Leo, life ring, all the magic rings which is a lot except I guess magic is bad, hornet, prisoner's chain, milk ring. Cloranthy, FAP, & knight slayer all kinda. Maybe red tearstone and the one that boosts your damage at full health? Idk. 4 ring slots, prisoner's chain is mandatory except you can't fit it on a wizard, but wizards are bad.
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May 10, 2016 22:35
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Tykero posted:do, do your own homework. list good rings in d1/2/3, bitch
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May 10, 2016 22:37
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Rings got a major nerf from DS1->DS2 but it was fine because you got four slots so you had about the same amount of power coming from your rings once you were fully loaded it. Then they got nerfed again in DS3 because ???
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May 10, 2016 22:41
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someone mlg at parry pvping tell me how I can counter parry spammers while dual wielding 4 pronged plows. switching weapons is out of the question, guy fieri is a man who lives and dies double fisting forks
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May 10, 2016 22:47
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