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Rondette
Nov 4, 2009

Your friendly neighbourhood Postie.



Grimey Drawer
David Mitchell thought piece on the subject.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/bbc-report-niche-distinctiveness-david-mitchell

quote:

There’s a new word in the lexicon of media bullshit: it is “distinctiveness”. A report, commissioned by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and published last week, argues that “greater distinctiveness” in the BBC’s output will allow its commercial rivals to make an extra £115m a year.

That seems pretty great, doesn’t it? The BBC’s output gets massively more “distinctive”, which sounds like absolutely unanswerably superb news, and at the same time commercial broadcasters make millions of extra pounds. How hugely splendid all round. Hooray.

So what is this “distinctiveness” that we’re all going to be enjoying? What are distinctive things? Well, I’m immediately thinking of the taste of chicken liver, the sound of James Mason’s voice, the design tradition of Citroën cars until the late 80s, the smell of pipe smoke, the style of Raymond Chandler’s prose. Those are all thoroughly attractive attributes and I can’t wait for BBC TV and radio programmes to sort of somehow start having more of that kind of thing about them.

This is like telling a boxer to throw a fight and make it look realistic
And, in other related brilliantness, ITV, Sky, Heart FM et al will have lots more money – which obviously isn’t distinctive at all, a certain uniformity being an unavoidable drawback of any currency, but is still nice to have and they can always choose to use it to buy lovely distinctive things like sci-fi chess sets, pool showers made out of telephone boxes, Toby jugs and clown shoes. So that’s great too.

Unfortunately the distinctiveness of a Hitchcock movie, a Lowry painting or a Cole Porter lyric doesn’t seem to be the sort the report is getting at, because that’s a kind people really like. That would be entirely counterproductive to its stated aims. By “distinctiveness”, the report means that the BBC should deliberately target smaller and more niche audiences, in order to allow the commercial sector to take the bigger ones. Its distinctive flavour would be less like chicken liver and more like calves’ brains. Because that would be fairer on the market place.

This repellent tang is to be achieved in broadly three ways: the corporation should generate more content in less populist, and indeed less popular, genres; it should schedule programmes less aggressively; and it should take more risks in commissioning new ones. So Radio 1 should be more like Radio 1 Xtra, broadcasting more obscure music and talking. The news website should ditch entertainment and soft news stories in favour of in-depth analysis. And BBC1 should do arts documentaries in primetime, make more new programmes and stop using Strictly Come Dancing as a stick with which to beat The X Factor.

These aren’t terrible ideas. Aggressive scheduling is annoying. I’m sure many viewers, as well as ITV’s shareholders, take the view that, if the BBC were to rise above the fray and schedule Strictly Come Dancing at a time that doesn’t clash with The X Factor, it would be serving the public better. And the notion of more primetime arts, science and history programming, more analytical journalism, and more risk-taking new commissions is metaphorical music to ears that scorn Radio 2’s literal kind.


But these ideas have not been arrived at in order to improve the BBC, but specifically to make it do less well. The report doesn’t advocate highbrow content despite the fact that it might not be popular, but because of it. If a new BBC1 documentary about Turgenev for 7 o’clock on Saturday nights turned out to be a runaway ratings winner, then that, too, should be axed and replaced by something else.

The report’s authors advocate greater risk-taking specifically in the hope that such risks do not pay off. For them, the only risk is that they do. If the distinctiveness they claim is vital were actually to be enjoyed by more people than the corporation’s current output, then ITV, Sky and Channel 5 would be complaining about that and then the culture secretary would have to commission a report calling for more blandness, less risk-taking and more audience-despising primetime bilge.

This puts the BBC in an almost impossible position. How can a broadcasting institution be expected deliberately to perform less well than it’s capable of? To put shows on at a certain time, when it knows more people would watch them at another time? To stop making its most popular programmes and not merely take risks on new shows that might not be so popular, but on ones that had better bloody not be or there’ll be hell to pay in Whitehall? This is like telling a boxer to throw a fight and make it look realistic. And what’s to be the corporation’s reward – its equivalent of a bookie’s massive bribe? At most, to limp through charter renewal with comparatively little further pummelling. For now.


The BBC is under unprecedented political pressure, its morale is low and those who work for it and run it are understandably asking the question: what do we have to do to assuage our critics, to be allowed to continue? This report’s answer can be summed up in one word: fail. Fundamentally that is the requirement. “More distinctive” is just a way its authors have found of saying “less successful” – but which they think will nevertheless sound vaguely positive to media wankers who flatter themselves they’re creative. Idiots with clever-sounding jobs can nod along with the uncontroversial-seeming concept of distinctiveness and are very unlikely to bother working out what it actually means.

It will be a fight to get rid of the BBC. Of the nearly 200,000 people who responded to a government consultation also published last week, 81% said the BBC was serving its audience “well or very well”. People still like it, they still consume its services more than any other broadcaster’s and so, crucially, they would miss it. This report is in favour of reducing its audience — but, according to Mark Oliver, one of the study’s authors, “would still leave BBC reach at a level that would be sufficient to maintain support for the licence”.

Maybe it would. For now. But this report makes the strategy of those commercially or ideologically opposed to the BBC startlingly clear. An overt challenge to the corporation’s existence remains politically unfeasible — the public would miss it too much. The first step, then, is to turn it into something that fewer people would miss – and eventually, over time, to make it so distinctive that hardly anyone likes it at all.

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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



On the other hand, maybe it'll force them to put something good on rather than reality game show trash for the masses.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo
Is there not also something in the old adage that people just prefer PSB sometimes over commercial telly?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Gyro Zeppeli posted:

I like the NI accents! Isn't that why there's a bunch of call centers over there? Because the accent is soft and reassuring.

I suppose I imagine that Norn Iron accents tend to conjure up notions of criminality for people who don't live here.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

I'm on the Conspiracy Files, Who Shot Down MH17? tonight, 9pm BST on BBC 2. The rest of the show might be good, but at least you'll have me to look forward to if it isn't.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Wheat Loaf posted:

I suppose I imagine that Norn Iron accents tend to conjure up notions of criminality for people who don't live here.

Or, you know, bombs, for the more :corsair: among us.

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Brown Moses posted:

I'm on the Conspiracy Files, Who Shot Down MH17? tonight, 9pm BST on BBC 2. The rest of the show might be good, but at least you'll have me to look forward to if it isn't.

Who shot down MH17?

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
Me, I did.

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE

Brown Moses posted:

I'm on the Conspiracy Files, Who Shot Down MH17? tonight, 9pm BST on BBC 2. The rest of the show might be good, but at least you'll have me to look forward to if it isn't.

Having watched it:

a) Well done on being clearly the most sane talking head

b) What's the deal with the American ex-CIA guy? My gut feeling is he's just a nut who happens to have formerly worked in intelligence but I guess he could just as easily be a stooge

c) Why isn't Russia better at making fakes? I'm thinking it's all for internal Russian consumption so they only need to pass cursory inspection, because their intended audience aren't going to believe the debunking anyway

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

feedmegin posted:

Or, you know, bombs, for the more :corsair: among us.

Sure, that falls under criminality.

SEX BURRITO
Jun 30, 2007

Not much fun

Brown Moses posted:

I'm on the Conspiracy Files, Who Shot Down MH17? tonight, 9pm BST on BBC 2. The rest of the show might be good, but at least you'll have me to look forward to if it isn't.

I saw a goon. On the TV!

It was a pretty good programme. I don't actually know much about the aftermath of MH17 and it was easy to follow. Congrats on pissing off that CIA guy.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Tsaedje posted:

b) What's the deal with the American ex-CIA guy? My gut feeling is he's just a nut who happens to have formerly worked in intelligence but I guess he could just as easily be a stooge
Basically he's a conspiracy theorist, he thinks everything is a big plot by the West against whoever. He also thinks the Sarin attacking in 2013 in Syria are a conspiracy, etc etc, so he's probably encountered my work before. He's also friends with Robert Parry of Consortium News, who is also a big MH17 truther, and doesn't like me either. They seem to think I have a London Penthouse rather than a semi in a suburb of Leicester.

quote:

c) Why isn't Russia better at making fakes? I'm thinking it's all for internal Russian consumption so they only need to pass cursory inspection, because their intended audience aren't going to believe the debunking anyway

I think it's partly that, plus they haven't really got that there's lots of ways to now verify their claims using open source information. With their bombing campaign in Syria they lied repeatedly about their own videos of airstrikes, claiming they were in totally different locations, and when they were accused of bombing mosques and hospitals they lied about their evidence then. For us we just have check every claim they make and generally we find they're lying quite easily, so it's low hanging fruit for us.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Gyro Zeppeli posted:

Mind when Channel 5 wasn't just poverty porn?

You mean when it was just porn porn?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Rarity posted:

You mean when it was just porn porn?

Nah, that was Channel 4.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Late night channel 4 on a Friday used to be great, a mix of weird european porny things, hallucinogenic short films and bizarre b-movies. Channel 5 just regularly used to show softcore after 11pm.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I'm probably mixing them up because the TV I used to have that only did the five terrestrial channels had Four on channel five and Five on channel four. :v:

I always associated Five with reruns of Law & Order and CSI shows, though.

Heavy_D
Feb 16, 2002

"rararararara" contains the meaning of everything, kept in simple rectangular structures
Sorry if I missed it at the time, but a couple of weeks back a new Louis Theroux documentary was on and I just caught up on it. This one was about alcohol addiction, and there's gonna be another one in just over a week on people living with brain injuries.

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.
Did anyone else try watching The Windsors? It wasn't the train wreck I was expecting, yet I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to complete the episode. The papers seem to like it.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
That CIA dude sure was really good at his job back in the day. That bay of pigs thing went off like planned.

Interesting documentary. I'm kind of bemused how purposely sloppy the opening accusations from the Russians media at the start of the incident.

eleven extra elephants
Feb 16, 2007

Menschliches! Allzumenschliches!!

Heavy_D posted:

Sorry if I missed it at the time, but a couple of weeks back a new Louis Theroux documentary was on and I just caught up on it. This one was about alcohol addiction, and there's gonna be another one in just over a week on people living with brain injuries.

It was good, it almost seemed fuckin scripted when that guy left the hospital detox place to buy alcohol and came back with perrier instead

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends
Reminder: the Hillsborough ESPN 30 for 30 is on BBC 2 at 9pm tonight

Rohan Kishibe
Oct 29, 2011

Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

Reminder: the Hillsborough ESPN 30 for 30 is on BBC 2 at 9pm tonight

When I watched it before, it was obviously from before the final verdict and everything. The ending of the version aired tonight seems to have been updated since, I guess that's why there's been a bit of a delay in airing it.

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007

:japan:
Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Rohan Kishibe posted:

When I watched it before, it was obviously from before the final verdict and everything. The ending of the version aired tonight seems to have been updated since, I guess that's why there's been a bit of a delay in airing it.

They couldn't air it in the UK while the inquest was in session

quote:

Prof Scraton explains: “It was about to go into cinemas when the coroner (Sir John Goldring) placed an embargo on films and books about Hillsborough.”

The film – made for ESPN’s “30 For 30” documentary strand about sports-related events between 1979 and 2009 – has been shown in North and South America, New Zealand and Australia. It was named Most Outstanding Factual Programme at the ASTRA awards, held in Sydney, last year and in 2014 was nominated for an Emmy in the Exceptional Merit In Documentary Filmmaking category.

The original film ended with reaction to the Hillsborough Independent Panel’s report of 2012, but Prof Scraton reveals: “It now has a new ending, with myself and family members having been interviewed again after the verdicts.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Rohan Kishibe posted:

When I watched it before, it was obviously from before the final verdict and everything. The ending of the version aired tonight seems to have been updated since, I guess that's why there's been a bit of a delay in airing it.

I've watched the US version, and there was a lot of editing in that one but mainly due to time constraints more than anything I would assume. For instance, the admission by one of the beat cops that he was crying and had pissed himself while having a flashback was new, as was Moira Stewart's news report. And obviously, the last ten minutes or so about the inquest were filmed I would imagine inside the last two weeks

Rohan Kishibe
Oct 29, 2011

Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

And obviously, the last ten minutes or so about the inquest were filmed I would imagine inside the last two weeks

Yeah, this is what I was referring to, primarily.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Does anyone use iplayer with AdFreeTime? I'm sure live viewing used to work fine, but now I can only view archived programs with the live stream resulting in an error. This is on the Apple TV, not had chance to try it on a computer.

Rondette
Nov 4, 2009

Your friendly neighbourhood Postie.



Grimey Drawer
Did anyone watch that dog programme with Kate Humble last night? I ended up watching the whole thing just because of the hilarity of watching people making terrible decisions.

'We'll get two small puppies! Oh, they'll just ignore us. Ok, we'll get a NEWFOUNDLAND! The biggest, hairiest, slobberiest dog available!' (it wasn't revealed whether they followed through on this plan)

'I work as cabin crew 4-3 days a week and live in a pretty small flat, but I must SIMPLY have a German Shepherd! My dad will look after it while I am away which is basically 50% of the time, he'll LOVE it!!' (Shot of dad looking really unhappy about the whole set-up) Luckily for Dad and any potential dog this idiot wasn't such an idiot and he changed his mind in the end and realised that crow-barring a dog into a lifestyle that it is clearly not suited for was not the way forward.

I like the idea of a dog but the reality of it is they are SO MUCH WORK! My mum and dad have 2 Scotties and they now pretty much have to plan their lives and social lives around these (admittedly cute) terrors. I'm definitely more into cats and their ability to do their own stuff for days on end.

Rondette fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 10, 2016

King Crab
Nov 12, 2005

lets pretend i didnt say that and lets als0 pretend it isnt inevitable
People are idiots and most do not even think for a second before getting a dog. The amount of animals dropped into rescues because people "couldn't cope" is just dumb.

Rondette
Nov 4, 2009

Your friendly neighbourhood Postie.



Grimey Drawer

King Crab posted:

People are idiots and most do not even think for a second before getting a dog. The amount of animals dropped into rescues because people "couldn't cope" is just dumb.

It was quite a good programme in that regard because the message was very much A DOG IS EXPENSIVE AND HARD WORK AND HERE IS WHY.....

DaWolfey
Oct 25, 2003

College Slice
I also enjoyed it. And it seems from the second episode teaser we'll certainly be checking in on the couple who want the newfoundland - by giving them 3.

I was fascinated by the hair shedding test - I knew the German Shepherd would be bad, but I didn't expect the jack russell or the pug. Also, watching the programme has made my hatred of the pugs face more intense than ever. The stupid bulbous eyed under-bitten jaw freaks.

Padje
Sep 10, 2003

I don't much care for the attitude of filthy money-lenders

Rondette posted:

It was quite a good programme in that regard because the message was very much A DOG IS EXPENSIVE AND HARD WORK AND HERE IS WHY.....

It was a noble show attempting to explain the pitfalls of dog buying and ownership, although the cost analysis seemed to be making a case for just having your animal put down.

The older couple with the world's biggest messiest dog - I think they'll just put up with the havoc.

The mum who kept breaking down. I'm not sure it's a dog she needs.

Rondette
Nov 4, 2009

Your friendly neighbourhood Postie.



Grimey Drawer

Padje posted:



The mum who kept breaking down. I'm not sure it's a dog she needs.

Oh god yeah. I was laughing at how spoiled and desperate she seemed when they couldn't get a dog RIGHT THEN but then I remembered I cried when I got a new car and had to wait a few extra days before I could drive it coz I missed the postie knocking on the door with the (recorded delivery)insurance certificate and they drove off before I could get to them, but that was more frustration at annoying postmen.

I get the feeling that despite her wanting the dog the most, she'll look after it the least. As soon as they got the little thing home (WITH IT SITTING ON HER LAP WITHOUT A SEAT BELT THE WHOLE TIME- jesus that could have been nasty if they crashed) she was grousing about having to take it outside for a piss.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
A short time ago, I asked about the dearth of decent satire on the telly. I've now read this article, written by the creator of a new satirical show called Spads which endeavours the answer the question, and argues that politicians killed it by being ridiculous.

I especially enjoyed these bits:

quote:

Labour’s rebellious Marxist backbenchers, meanwhile, like Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, were once mentioned only to scoff derisively at their impassioned ostracism. Now they’re running the third biggest party in Scotland.

And

quote:

[T]he political antics of 2016 would involve going broader than the Marx Brothers, which, coincidentally, would be a great name for a sitcom involving a Jeremy Corbyn/Owen Jones flat share.

ThomasPaine
Feb 4, 2009

We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Wheat Loaf posted:

A short time ago, I asked about the dearth of decent satire on the telly. I've now read this article, written by the creator of a new satirical show called Spads which endeavours the answer the question, and argues that politicians killed it by being ridiculous.

I especially enjoyed these bits:


And

Whoever wrote that sounds like an insufferable poo poo

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Quite. I mean, it's on the New Statesman, isn't it?

StoneOfShame
Jul 28, 2013

This is the best kitchen ever.
Cunk on Shakespeare is the funniest half hour of tv of seen in a long while.

Dr. Cool Aids
Jul 6, 2009
Yeah, jesus was Cunk good. I was a bit wary because I didn't know if the whole Moments of Wonder thing could last a whole half hour without running out of steam but I'm glad to be wrong

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side
It reminded me a bit of Brooker's "A Touch of Cloth" in that the jokes were just so constant that even if you didn't like half of them you'd still be chuckling every minute. I really cracked up at the bit about Shakespeare being the inventor of computer games. I wonder how much of the interview bits are scripted, some of them seemed real but I don't feel like the teacher bloke would have really been like that about the pronunciation of 'pentameter'

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
Still watching but I laughed so hard at the theatre director trying to claim people actively enjoy standing.

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tentish klown
Apr 3, 2011

Escobarbarian posted:

Still watching but I laughed so hard at the theatre director trying to claim people actively enjoy standing.

Yeah, he's full of poo poo. The worst 3 hours of theatre-going I've ever had was standing at the Globe.

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