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Ensign Expendable posted:To the last generation, maybe. To kids these days, not so much While giving tours, I'm finding the younger kids up to about 15-20 are a little more knowledgeable, or at the very least willing to learn. I think it's mostly because they're still in a school mindset or are just interested enough to be mesmerized by seeing stuff outside a book for once. I think baby-boomers are by far the worst (big surprise), usually interrupting to regurgitate internet/History Channel myths and cultural/political biases. In some cases it's obvious that they just made stuff up on the spot to seem smart. My favorite one was a guy who saw our MG-42 and insisted, insisted that half of all rounds afforded to crews were blanks because "the sound was scary enough." I could not convince him otherwise and you could tell he claimed victory in his mind because I didn't want to bog down the tour. And then there's the Garand helmet ping myth that gets parroted by the type of guy who you know locks down the counter at every local gun store for at least an hour per visit when we get to the American weapons display.
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May 13, 2016 17:05
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Huh, well that's a new myth. I only heard the one about a shotgun racking noise being enough to scare off home invaders. As for a new generation of learning, I'm pretty sure that World of Tanks is more accurate than the History Channel.
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May 13, 2016 17:11
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Ensign Expendable posted:Huh, well that's a new myth. I only heard the one about a shotgun racking noise being enough to scare off home invaders. As well as certain other blogs that popped up in its wake.
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May 13, 2016 17:17
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Ensign Expendable posted:As for a new generation of learning, I'm pretty sure that World of Tanks is more accurate than the History Channel. The hilarious amounts of wehraboos that still try to brawl with the Tiger despite everything in the game telling them not to suggests otherwise... "So tell me class, what factors led to allied victory in 1945?" "RUSSIAN BIAS"
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May 13, 2016 17:20
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Just in case anyone's unfamiliar with the M1 Garand ping myth, here's a video that explains what it is and why it's bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8E8nGbVHnU
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May 13, 2016 17:20
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lenoon posted:The hilarious amounts of wehraboos that still try to brawl with the Tiger despite everything in the game telling them not to suggests otherwise... "So tell me class, what factors led to allied victory in 1945?" Russian bias, gold ammo, and arty.
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May 13, 2016 17:21
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Very good, class. Reality was biased towards Soviet tank designs, and they did very well with artillery support.
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May 13, 2016 17:25
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Ensign Expendable posted:Russian bias, gold ammo, and arty. I mean, the arty part is at least somewhat accurate.
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May 13, 2016 17:41
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Just in case anyone's unfamiliar with the M1 Garand ping myth, here's a video that explains what it is and why it's bullshit: I love the term Garrand Finger incidently.
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May 13, 2016 19:07
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Vitalis Rosenstock, rodelero Balthasar Uriel, musterschreiber
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May 13, 2016 19:18
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Just in case anyone's unfamiliar with the M1 Garand ping myth, here's a video that explains what it is and why it's bullshit: There's so much dumb-thought going on with the PING myth it's amazing. 1) There's going to be more than 1 M1 out there. Once again this isn't the oh-so-realistic 'One v One' setting that so many internet comparisons need 2) The guy with the Garand is going to pop back into cover as soon as he fires off his last round 3) Reloading a rifle from an enbloc clip is neither hard nor time consuming. 4) As mentioned in that video, firefights are ear-fuckingly-loud. Just to name a few
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May 13, 2016 19:40
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lenoon posted:The hilarious amounts of wehraboos that still try to brawl with the Tiger despite everything in the game telling them not to suggests otherwise... "So tell me class, what factors led to allied victory in 1945?" The superior analytical ability of the dialectic materialistic theory of war.
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May 13, 2016 20:07
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Taerkar posted:There's so much dumb-thought going on with the PING myth it's amazing. But in CoD you can one-shot a guy while he is stuck in the reloading animation, I don't know what you are talkin g about.
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May 13, 2016 20:08
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Taerkar posted:
I think this is the part that most of the people involved in these dumb myths don't realize... Your hearing is going to be toast.
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May 13, 2016 20:36
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razak posted:I think this is the part that most of the people involved in these dumb myths don't realize... Your hearing is going to be toast. It's actually a different kind of hearing loss based on accounts of people in combat. Your brain works to filter out the pain of loud noises during the adrenaline rush of combat to keep you from writhing in pain holding your head every time the guy next to you in the room shoots his rifle out the window. So you won't hear the ping not JUST because the gunfire is deafening you, but because your brain's simply not registering that noise at all.
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May 13, 2016 20:41
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HEY GAL posted:Balthasar Uriel History has a 40k bias Tiger I is the sexiest disappointment in Warthunder because the balance throws it manches with heavy tanks and much later stuff while, say, KV-1 only has Matildas and their pea shooters to go against. Marilda is glacially slow in Warthunder, I have no idea how it ever worked IRL.
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May 13, 2016 20:42
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JcDent posted:History has a 40k bias The best part of War Thunder is one-shotting Tigers with the lowest tier Shermans (especially the 105mm howitzer with HEAT) by going through their side or rear armor and blowing up their ammo or setting their fuel tanks on fire. The Tiger is distinguished by a really good gun and fairly tough armor, but it's realistically nowhere close to invincible and the flat shape of the armor doesn't help its defenses at all. On the other hand, the KV-2 is extremely unrealistically powerful in Arcade because the player gets an estimated impact marker and thus doesn't have to mentally compensate for the huge drop of the slow shell.
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May 13, 2016 20:48
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Yeah, but I don't go into realistic, because then it's playing without drop/spot indicators against people who are much better than me. Plus, I don't think I have the time for Matildas with realistic speed and turret rotation  No shame in blooping a tank, tho, never. Anyone care to weigh in on Churchill and how good of a heavy tank it was?
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May 13, 2016 20:59
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JcDent posted:Marilda is glacially slow in Warthunder, I have no idea how it ever worked IRL. Early-war tanks were mostly terrible and Matildas were pretty bad too. They had very thick armour that early AT guns couldn't penetrate. They got phased out because their production methods were archaic, repairs were too difficult, and the gun ring was too small for a proper tank gun.
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May 13, 2016 21:00
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Is War Thunder's depiction of the armor on the Tetrarch accurate? It's capable of being frontally penetrated by .50 BMG machine guns, which meant that for a while the best vehicle to bring into reserve tier was an anti-air vehicle with machine guns because everyone was trying out the new British tank tree and thus were all driving British paper tanks.
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May 13, 2016 21:05
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chitoryu12 posted:Is War Thunder's depiction of the armor on the Tetrarch accurate? It's capable of being frontally penetrated by .50 BMG machine guns, which meant that for a while the best vehicle to bring into reserve tier was an anti-air vehicle with machine guns because everyone was trying out the new British tank tree and thus were all driving British paper tanks. woah, i checked their wiki article and they were used still at normandy
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May 13, 2016 21:09
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I'm in the middle of a lengthy book about the North African campaign in WW2, mainly focusing on Rommel vs the British, and general tankchat aside the book has been absolutely scathing about the Italian armor. I'm not familiar with this part of WW2, but was the British (and this book's) contempt for Italian AFV's warranted?
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May 13, 2016 21:14
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chitoryu12 posted:Is War Thunder's depiction of the armor on the Tetrarch accurate? It's capable of being frontally penetrated by .50 BMG machine guns, which meant that for a while the best vehicle to bring into reserve tier was an anti-air vehicle with machine guns because everyone was trying out the new British tank tree and thus were all driving British paper tanks. The Tetrarch has 14 mm of front armour IIRC which is just enough to protect from rifle caliber AP bullets, nothing larger.
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May 13, 2016 21:14
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Hogge Wild posted:woah, i checked their wiki article and they were used still at normandy Being light enough to get with being strapped into a glider helps a lot. It's perfect for sneaking behind enemy lines and locking down territory guarded by sleepy Gestapo and reserves garrisoned for rest. Not so useful on the front facing proper tanks.
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May 13, 2016 21:15
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I don't know if this is interesting to you guys, but this weekend is the Militracks event at the Liberty museum in Overloon, the Netherlands. It is a yearly event with loads of genuine WWII German vehicles in running condition where you can take a ride on a forest track on the vehicles for a few bucks  This year there will be a Stug III, Hetzer, Panzer II and loads more; http://www.militracks.nl/en/participating-military-vehicles/ If German vehicles aren't your thing (Stug III though!) the museum itself is pretty awesome as well, it has a very large collection of Allied vehicles as well.
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May 13, 2016 21:24
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Hogge Wild posted:woah, i checked their wiki article and they were used still at normandy Not so much "still used" but "used because it was the only one in its class". Hamilcar gliders could just barely carry it, anything heavier would have required a new glider design. As a light tank Tetrarch was obviously outdated but as an airdeployable light tank/recon vehicle it was the only option. In the 1950s Soviet airborn troops had the paradropped ASU-57, a 3½ ton open topped tank destroyer/assault gun carrying a 57mm gun with 4mm armour. Its successor ASU-85 at least had ten times the armour thickness and a closed top, but it also weighed 15 tons, three times as much as ASU-57. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 13, 2016 |
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May 13, 2016 21:25
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Cythereal posted:I'm in the middle of a lengthy book about the North African campaign in WW2, mainly focusing on Rommel vs the British, and general tankchat aside the book has been absolutely scathing about the Italian armor. I'm not familiar with this part of WW2, but was the British (and this book's) contempt for Italian AFV's warranted? Italian armour was very poor compared to all the big powers. They had an okay SPG equivalent to the early StuG, but that's about it. JcDent posted:History has a 40k bias The Matilda supports infantry. Infantry doesn't go fast, so why should it?
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May 13, 2016 21:27
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Cythereal posted:I'm in the middle of a lengthy book about the North African campaign in WW2, mainly focusing on Rommel vs the British, and general tankchat aside the book has been absolutely scathing about the Italian armor. I'm not familiar with this part of WW2, but was the British (and this book's) contempt for Italian AFV's warranted? The Italians were using outdated tanks, but they weren't particularly lovely by early war standards. The basic problem with the Italians in WWII is that they had serious organizational and materiel issues that never got resolved. You don't get an entire army group captured in 3 months just because your tanks are kind of bad.
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May 13, 2016 21:29
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Anybody able to guess if the tungsten-core, tapered barrel design German WWII guns were a waste of strategic materials, or if they actually provided a tangible bonus to their war effort? Their anti-tank rifle using this technique seems very impressive on paper, and so does the 75mm gun, but I suppose quantity would trump quality in these cases.
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May 13, 2016 21:34
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Matilda supports infantry. Infantry doesn't go fast, so why should it? Also there's no reason for a HE shell to exist for their guns when they have machineguns. steinrokkan posted:Anybody able to guess if the tungsten-core, tapered barrel design German WWII guns were a waste of strategic materials, or if they actually provided a tangible bonus to their war effort? Their anti-tank rifle using this technique seems very impressive on paper, and so does the 75mm gun, but I suppose quantity would trump quality in these cases. Just out of my rear end I'd wager to guess it's neither. Too little over too short a time period to really count as a significant waste, too little to really count as a meaningful boost to their war effort. Germany faced a serious anti-tank weaponry crisis after it invaded Soviet Union but they handled it in a myriad of ways, including converting captured French and Russian artillery guns into AT guns. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 13, 2016 |
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May 13, 2016 21:37
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Nenonen posted:Also there's no reason for a HE shell to exist for their guns when they have machineguns Of course not, what's the enemy going to do, entrench? steinrokkan posted:Anybody able to guess if the tungsten-core, tapered barrel design German WWII guns were a waste of strategic materials, or if they actually provided a tangible bonus to their war effort? Their anti-tank rifle using this technique seems very impressive on paper, and so does the 75mm gun, but I suppose quantity would trump quality in these cases. Each shot used a kilogram of tungsten, an extremely rare and expensive metal that is also needed for industry. Yes, it had high penetration, but at a hilariously impractical cost.
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May 13, 2016 21:59
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Related question: Is there any possible way in which the Germans could maintain a supply of tungsten competitive with the West without the Allies simply obliterating the Nazi suppliers? I mean, if the Portuguese and Spanish continued their supply routes to Germany, do you think the Allies would have acted upon their breaches of neutrality?
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May 13, 2016 22:15
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steinrokkan posted:Related question: Is there any possible way in which the Germans could maintain a supply of tungsten competitive with the West without the Allies simply obliterating the Nazi suppliers? I mean, if the Portuguese and Spanish continued their supply routes to Germany, do you think the Allies would have acted upon their breaches of neutrality? The Allies weren't exactly swimming in tungsten either.
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May 13, 2016 22:48
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Cyrano4747 posted:They would also probably toss them as luggage on whatever was handy. Sometimes, but they also carried them on straps. OP: look up the Enarme or Guige strap (same thing)
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May 13, 2016 22:54
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Allies weren't exactly swimming in tungsten either. Obviously, given that a single shipwreck could lead to the loss of 1/3 pf global supply. Still, they ended up having a much greater pool for industrial tool replacements due to their intimidation of the Iberian fascists.
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May 13, 2016 22:55
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One of the things that made the early war infantry tanks so slow is that they had similar armor all around and this jacked up the weight in a huge way. See: the R-35. They were unreliable as hell in addition to being slow. The Romanians phased them out very early in their war and were very reluctant to use the "tank destroyer" variant they made, which replaced the tiny 37mm gun with a Russian 45mm gun.
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May 14, 2016 00:10
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I found it helped a lot to understand what the Matilda was for by just imagining a Mark I tank from 1916, then drawing a big long straight line going out from it, and then putting a Matilda at the end. 100 Years Ago 7 May: Colonel von Lettow-Vorbeck launches the Battle of Kondoa: the starting gun is borrowed from the Konigsberg. 250 miles to the north, E.S. Thompson proves once again that he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. In France, General Petain uses his promotion as an opportunity to give General Joffre a rather large piece of his mind, as Louis Barthas spends most of the day marching toward the incessant gunfire. Robert Pelissier, meanwhile, has again avoided the Verdun lottery; idiot son of a Montreal millionaire Clifford Wells lets us know that being an hofficer is a more comfortable life than being a ranker; and Maximilian Mugge faces up to the bullshit of a Travelling Medical Board. 8 May: Fort Douaumont suddenly explodes for no reason, killing an entire German battalion. One of the casemates farts a giant pillar of flame into the sky, and General Mangin has fresh hope for his next assault on the fort, due in about ten days. Louis Barthas has now arrived within range of the guns for the first time in months; another look at Admiral Scheer's new, more aggressive North Sea policy; BEF chief of staff Launcelot Kiggell writes a note telling Kitchener's Army that saluting and Blanco are extremely important, and that they should on no account attempt to think for themselves; and Maximilian Mugge's ever-more-interesting insight into the life of a crock continues with some more appreciations on military justice.
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May 14, 2016 00:34
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steinrokkan posted:Obviously, given that a single shipwreck could lead to the loss of 1/3 pf global supply. Still, they ended up having a much greater pool for industrial tool replacements due to their intimidation of the Iberian fascists. I"ve never heard about this; should I be googling "Tungsten in WW2?"
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May 14, 2016 01:36
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Trin Tragula posted:250 miles to the north, E.S. Thompson proves once again that he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. quote:I was itching all over when we arrived so took off my vest and to my horror found that I was lousy – I had been troubled from itches for over a fortnight but didn’t know this vermin was the cause. If he hadn't removed that vest in a fortnight in a tropical climate, I'm surprised lice was all he got away with and not some horrible fungal skin disease.
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May 14, 2016 04:38
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Medieval recreationist just told the audience that the sword was the perfrct and the most legendary weapon of the era (maybe it holds true for Baltics in 13 century?)
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May 14, 2016 11:45
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