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I haven't seen it, so I've no idea, but Michael Moore is a partisan hack. I wouldn't trust a word come out of his mouth.
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May 15, 2016 02:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I'm watching Michael Moore's Where to Invade Next. Since you apparently have seen the movie you should tell us what the film depicts, would be a lot easier to respond. Does partisan hack mean he's against the republicans? Because that seems like a prerequisite to having an opinion worth taking seriously.
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May 15, 2016 05:58
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It means he's an unreliable (and biased) source of information.
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May 15, 2016 06:45
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:It means he's an unreliable (and biased) source of information. Hey, I don't disagree with you, let me make that clear first. But if you don't give us some examples that make us understand why we shouldn't trust him, then I have to assume es unreliable and biased as 100% of the media is. And you stopped at the ad-hominem phase. This is a serious comment, I want to have your thoughts on this one.
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May 15, 2016 08:22
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ElNarez posted:hey fun fact: that disposition was a concession made to the PS, who were for removing the 49.3 entirely icantfindaname posted:forget about lack of voting discipline, holding Churchill as a political paragon should be grounds for instant expulsion from any left-wing political party Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 09:07 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 08:56
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Dawncloack posted:But if you don't give us some examples that make us understand why we shouldn't trust him, then I have to assume es unreliable and biased as 100% of the media is. He frequently uses clips and interview statements out of context, cherry picks the aspects of reality he wants to present and values polemic presentation over the truth. I guess that doesn't really set him apart from certain other media outlets, but that doesn't make his reports any more reliable. In his latest movie he cherry picks certain aspects of countries that could be seen as exemplary while not mentioning the problems those countries face, for example the idea that the US should emulate Italy with regards to their manufacturing industry is just absurd.
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May 15, 2016 09:26
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Dawncloack posted:Hey, I don't disagree with you, let me make that clear first. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/dear-government-of-sweden_b_798061.html
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May 15, 2016 11:58
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doverhog posted:Since you apparently have seen the movie you should tell us what the film depicts, would be a lot easier to respond. I've seen about a third of the movie, but some things so far: - All Italian workers have a guarantee of multiple weeks of paid vacation (I think he said four) and five months of maternity leave - It isn't uncommon for Italian workers have two hour lunch breaks - All French schools, even the poorest ones, have quality meals that last an entire class period doverhog posted:Does partisan hack mean he's against the republicans? Because that seems like a prerequisite to having an opinion worth taking seriously. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 16:18
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punk rebel ecks posted:I've seen about a third of the movie, but some things so far: Britain has similar - five weeks paid vacation, 9 months maternity leave, free school meals for poorer children. This is pretty standard around western/northern Europe as far as I'm aware.
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May 15, 2016 16:25
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Tesseraction posted:Britain has similar - five weeks paid vacation, 9 months maternity leave, free school meals for poorer children. This is pretty standard around western/northern Europe as far as I'm aware. It is. In fact, most of the labour-related stuff like hours per day, annual leave and maternity leave are also harmonized by EU directives that set minimum standards.
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May 15, 2016 16:47
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lol if you think the majority of the immigrant labor force that sustains the economy of north an central europe has 50% of those labor protections
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May 16, 2016 23:31
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Mans posted:lol if you think the majority of the immigrant labor force that sustains the economy of north an central europe has 50% of those labor protections
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May 17, 2016 06:55
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Mans posted:lol if you think the majority of the immigrant labor force that sustains the economy of north and central europe has 50% of those labor protections In the Nordic countries they have? I mean, unless you work for some tiny skummy / tax dodging company or are self employed you normally do have those labour protections if you are not employed in another country. And the economy of Sweden at least, is certainly not "sustained" by tiny companies. If you somehow mean the systematic abuse of smaller countries by richer ones, yes obviously, all nations does this.
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May 17, 2016 07:05
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Charlie Mopps posted:The European Commission recently proposed a law to force employers to give the same wages and protections to local employees and immigrants from other European countries. Eastern European nations threaten to block this proposal as they fear that it will reduce the demand for their people to work in western Europe. That's an impressive level of "gently caress you" towards their own citizens.
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May 17, 2016 12:04
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Tesseraction posted:That's an impressive level of "gently caress you" towards their own citizens. It's not if you believe that such a law would reduce the opportunities they have in other European countries.
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May 17, 2016 12:06
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GaussianCopula posted:It's not if you believe that such a law would reduce the opportunities they have in other European countries. Which would be a public admission that they're only in the EU for the free stuff.
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May 17, 2016 12:25
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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GaussianCopula posted:It's not if you believe that such a law would reduce the opportunities they have in other European countries. "Sure, our citizens are being exploited overseas, but at least they have jobs!" is not really a non-"gently caress you" policy.
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May 17, 2016 12:29
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blowfish posted:Which would be a public admission that they're only in the EU for the free stuff. Well, duh. Also see the net recipients of EU aid. That is what makes Eastern Europe's whining about sharing the refugee load even more lovely.
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May 17, 2016 13:12
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Tesseraction posted:"Sure, our citizens are being exploited overseas, but at least they have jobs!" is not really a non-"gently caress you" policy. If the alternative would be unemployment and misery for an equal share of the expat population it is a non-"gently caress you" for their citizens. The equation does not look exactly like this but the outsourcing of cheap labour is a non insignificant income for the state but most importantly, a significant opportunity for the electorate.
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May 17, 2016 13:13
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Tesseraction posted:"Sure, our citizens are being exploited overseas, but at least they have jobs!" is not really a non-"gently caress you" policy. I'd argue a lot of people would rather be exploited healthcare professionals in the UK than unemployed bums in Romania.
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May 17, 2016 13:51
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DarkCrawler posted:Well, duh. Also see the net recipients of EU aid.  you're not supposed to admit that in public
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May 17, 2016 13:52
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GaussianCopula posted:I'd argue a lot of people would rather be exploited healthcare professionals in the UK than unemployed bums in Romania. Doesn't mean you should accept nor live with exploitation, you rear end.
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May 17, 2016 14:04
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Tesseraction posted:That's an impressive level of "gently caress you" towards their own citizens. Insuring equal rights for foreign and domestic workers drives hiring demand towards domestic workers and away from foreigners thanks to better language skills and greater integration with the local populace. Being able to treat foreign workers worse than domestic workers is just about the only incentive there is for hiring foreigners.
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May 17, 2016 15:29
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Mr.48 posted:Being able to treat foreign workers worse than domestic workers is just about the only incentive there is for hiring foreigners. Not really. Maybe for low-skill positions, but local availability of an educated and specialized workforce (or lack thereof) is also a driving factor.
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May 17, 2016 16:28
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CommieGIR posted:Doesn't mean you should accept nor live with exploitation, you rear end. No but it is still the reason why it is the exploited nations that most vocally opposes the stop of exploitation and not the rich countries that will simply give back jobs to its own populations. The rich country electorate won't be able to cheaply refurbish their house but will gain more job opportunities. The poor country electorate won't be able to get comparatively well paid jobs abroad as easily, and their country will likely get even more unemployment as a result.
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May 17, 2016 17:58
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Freezer posted:Not really. Maybe for low-skill positions, but local availability of an educated and specialized workforce (or lack thereof) is also a driving factor. Specialized workforce that can be gotten cheap preferably, for which my friend with a 600 euro salary while working in Sweden for a polish IT-company is a prime example...
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May 17, 2016 18:06
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Zudgemud posted:Specialized workforce that can be gotten cheap preferably, for which my friend with a 600 euro salary while working in Sweden for a polish IT-company is a prime example... Can he live off that in Sweden? I thought it was expensive.
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May 17, 2016 19:13
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Mans posted:lol if you think the majority of the immigrant labor force that sustains the economy of north an central europe has 50% of those labor protections So those EU directives for, e.g. the organisation of working time or annual leave only apply to the citizens of those countries and not immigrants?
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May 17, 2016 19:54
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The whole point of hiring foreign workers is that they aren't actually aware of how much free time their job is supposed to give them.
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May 17, 2016 22:23
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Randler posted:So those EU directives for, e.g. the organisation of working time or annual leave only apply to the citizens of those countries and not immigrants? The Posted Workers Directive and the Working Time directive apply everywhere, but member states may opt out of the maximum defined in the Working Time Directive 'as long as the individual workers agree' (it's mostly the UK to blame for this as far as I can tell). Obviously this opt-out almost guarantees abuse, particularly when most member states do not have the resources to properly enforce labour law anyway, see e.g. this horrifying story in The Guardian. The European Commission and the Western member states think that the Posted Workers directive is too weak to protect workers and want to strengthen it, and it's here that most Eastern European member states pulled the yellow card.
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May 17, 2016 22:45
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Dawncloack posted:Can he live off that in Sweden? I thought it was expensive. No, but he lived in Poland, got flown back and forth each week while having paid hotel stay in Sweden during the week, the job lasted for a year or so, and it was still cheaper to hire him as a Polish consultant! I wish that I made this up, it was loving mind boggling at the time. And the funny thing was the math checked out with good margin, the Swedish salary would have been about 3000-3500 euro (actually even more to the employer due to fees), and hotels and flights added up to several hundreds of euros less than that.
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May 17, 2016 22:52
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When is Europe going to eliminate all these small trash 1 and 2 cent coins? I forgot how annoying and utterly useless they are when Canada got rid of its 1-cent coin. It must be a pure waste of money to mint them at this point, right? The cost of manufacturing must exceed the actual value by now.
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May 18, 2016 08:41
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PT6A posted:When is Europe going to eliminate all these small trash 1 and 2 cent coins? I forgot how annoying and utterly useless they are when Canada got rid of its 1-cent coin. It must be a pure waste of money to mint them at this point, right? The cost of manufacturing must exceed the actual value by now. It has. But if you actually try to remove them, idiots will throw a fit over how paying €4 instead of €3.99 for a crate of frozen supermarket pizza is the end of the world.
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May 18, 2016 09:02
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PT6A posted:When is Europe going to eliminate all these small trash 1 and 2 cent coins? I forgot how annoying and utterly useless they are when Canada got rid of its 1-cent coin. It must be a pure waste of money to mint them at this point, right? The cost of manufacturing must exceed the actual value by now. Yeah I swear, literally the worst thing I remember about living in Germany. I mean when both storefronts and beggars will take offense when offered a denomination then that denomination is officially redudant.
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May 18, 2016 09:02
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blowfish posted:It has. But if you actually try to remove them, idiots will throw a fit over how paying €4 instead of €3.99 for a crate of frozen supermarket pizza is the end of the world. Non-cash transactions can still be settled to the cent, though. At most, you're losing 2 cents per transaction, and chances are you will gain 2 cents just as often anyway. The only place I get anything less than 10 cents is tobacconists and groceries. I'd be okay with simply getting rid of everything below 10 cents.
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May 18, 2016 09:25
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PT6A posted:Non-cash transactions can still be settled to the cent, though. At most, you're losing 2 cents per transaction, and chances are you will gain 2 cents just as often anyway. The only place I get anything less than 10 cents is tobacconists and groceries. It's a matter of PrincipleTM, you ivory tower out of touch econobureaucrat 
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May 18, 2016 09:31
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I'd be happy with getting rid of the cents, if they simply adjusted the prices as well ! Just let the things cost 1 Euro instead of 99 cents, and I'll happily pay it. If it costs 99 cents, I want my money back, and I'll be wasting everybody's time by paying with cents coins once I have enough. Since tax is included in the prices, it's actually possible to do so in Germany.
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May 18, 2016 10:07
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The mere presence of 1-cent coins has cost me more time in looking through my change for the correct amount than I could ever hope to save through the careful conservation of the small coins, so rounding would not bother me in the least. Also, as mentioned, you will sometimes gain up to and including two whole cents when rounding works in your favour! Why, it's like winning the world's shittiest lottery!
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May 18, 2016 10:28
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I won't disagree that 1/2 cent coins are the devil, but it is pretty satisfactory when I can pay the exact cent value of any purchase.
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May 18, 2016 10:31
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YF-23 posted:I won't disagree that 1/2 cent coins are the devil, but it is pretty satisfactory when I can pay the exact cent value of any purchase. Same, but only insofar as it allows me to divest myself of my growing collection of coins.
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May 18, 2016 10:35
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