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Alopex posted:One of my favorite details about Lucy is her maiden name being Pendleton like Erina's was, which makes her owning Dio's rear end for good real satisfying. Yes!!!!! Lucy is Good.
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May 15, 2016 07:00
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Huh, I never actually realized that. That is pretty fantastic.
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May 15, 2016 07:04
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Baal posted:Truly a vocation the likes of which other amazing characters have had like... i love how smokey literally just became MLK 
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May 15, 2016 07:57
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And then you think "Oh, Johnny's gonna end up with lucy, but that'd be weird because lucy is really young and johnny is so much older than her" and then johnny fucks off with some chick named Rina instead who fills pretty much the same role as lucy as "a reference to erina"
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May 15, 2016 07:58
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Hot Pants' death was so anticlimactic and unforgettable that when I finished SBR I didn't even realize for like two weeks that I had no idea what actually happened to her. She went from fighting to dead in a single panel with absolutely no focus or lasting impact. Like, at least Johnny found Diego's body cut in half by the train later, but Hot Pants just... disappeared from the story. I mean, like, she definitely died because she got... a window shoved into her? I think??? It's a shame, because I was actually super into Hot Pants and then oops she died (hey, guess what, I like the character with the weird stand that shoots her skin off). Lucy at least turned into a hardcore motherfucker and took an active role in trying to protect her husband, and I thought her relationship with Stephen was actually pretty neat, as a basically completely platonic sort of love instead of a weird skeevy thing with the old dude wanting to gently caress a 14 year old and the 14 year old wanting to protect him from all the bullshit. Basically, Araki has gotten way better at writing female characters but still hasn't really given any of them except for Lucy (maybe Trish? haven't read part 5, waiting for the good translation to finish) a real narrative arc that didn't end in disappointment and anticlimax imo.
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May 15, 2016 08:15
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unfortunately trish was just kind of There and she didn't contribute much. her stand was really only used in the fight where it was introduced and i don't remember it being used after that.
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May 15, 2016 08:21
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Johnny Joestar posted:unfortunately trish was just kind of There and she didn't contribute much. her stand was really only used in the fight where it was introduced and i don't remember it being used after that. Yeah, trish does absolutely nothing with her stand after it gets introduced. To be fair, that's a problem with a lot of the cast members, but it sticks out with her more since it pretty much gives her the perfect power to counter notorious BIG and then doesn't use it anymore past that
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May 15, 2016 08:24
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:Hot Pants' death was so anticlimactic and unforgettable that when I finished SBR I didn't even realize for like two weeks that I had no idea what actually happened to her. She went from fighting to dead in a single panel with absolutely no focus or lasting impact. Like, at least Johnny found Diego's body cut in half by the train later, but Hot Pants just... disappeared from the story. I mean, like, she definitely died because she got... a window shoved into her? I think??? It's a shame, because I was actually super into Hot Pants and then oops she died (hey, guess what, I like the character with the weird stand that shoots her skin off). Lucy at least turned into a hardcore motherfucker and took an active role in trying to protect her husband, and I thought her relationship with Stephen was actually pretty neat, as a basically completely platonic sort of love instead of a weird skeevy thing with the old dude wanting to gently caress a 14 year old and the 14 year old wanting to protect him from all the bullshit. Trish has the skeleton of a real narrative arc, I guess? I can't help but feel that she doesn't develop so much as become a completely different character offscreen. Not saying that was a bad choice, though, because the old I-only-drink-mineral-water Trish was annoying. She does play an actual role in the fight against her father, but I'm not sure she gets any real resolution characterization-wise. I was a little weirded out by how happy she and Mista were over Diavolo's defeat even though Narancia had just died. It feels like Araki originally intended her to be a damsel in distress but then changed his mind, just in time for her to actually accomplish things but too late to make her a fully fleshed-out character. My opinion of her may change when the new translations finish, though.
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May 15, 2016 08:32
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Johnny Joestar posted:unfortunately trish was just kind of There and she didn't contribute much. her stand was really only used in the fight where it was introduced and i don't remember it being used after that. She used it in the Diavolo fight (although the most memorable thing she did in that fight involved guns rather than her Stand).
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May 15, 2016 08:34
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you guys realize koichi was in steel ball run right...
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May 15, 2016 08:45
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Silver2195 posted:She used it in the Diavolo fight (although the most memorable thing she did in that fight involved guns rather than her Stand). probably says a lot about how little of an impression it made on me! that and the translation being stale as gently caress.
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May 15, 2016 08:47
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how did hot pants die anyway, i didn't understand it either. was it just a shard of the window being teleported into her vitals?
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May 15, 2016 10:37
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http://bato.to/reader#7e239161d6a16835 On another note, White Album 4 went online on what's technically yesterday by now, for anyone who's following Vento Aureo.
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May 15, 2016 10:53
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JOHN CENA posted:how did hot pants die anyway, i didn't understand it either. was it just a shard of the window being teleported into her vitals? I just went back to check (d4c part 10 if you want to look yourself) and... the window just sort of teleported itself inside of her, for some reason. It was sticking out of her head so it was probably through her brain but, yeah, just sort of had some bugs and a window teleported inside of her in the span of like 4 pages. Honestly, that's just something sort of weird about SBR in general, all of the deaths of "good guys" (or at least guys working against Valentine) are super anticlimactic, except kinda Mountain Tim. Diego kills Wekapipo for no reason, Diego gets run over by a train, Hot Pants just sort of absorbs a window, Gyro gets bit by a fish. It's all really weird and a little unsatisfying, probably the weakest part of SBR overall.
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May 15, 2016 11:06
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That's the point of it. People die, life carries on. The entire D4C fight was an unstoppable avalanche with no time for anyone to grieve. It's really no different to when everyone dies in Stone Ocean. It's worse with HP because it doesn't do a great job of establishing that she's dead until you realise she doesn't show up again but there's absolutely nothing wrong with killing characters and not dwelling on it.
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May 15, 2016 11:25
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Nah actually it's dumb and bad and makes the reader feel cheated when characters they have become invested in and care about die without accomplishing anything and for dumb reasons. Everyone I cared about dying at the end of SO was also dumb and bad.
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May 15, 2016 11:29
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That, but the opposite in every way.
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May 15, 2016 11:54
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 These two panels are more impactful than the majority of the deaths in the series. She didn't just die to give Emporio a chance, she got utterly and totally annihilated. Also lol at the page seam on Shueisha's source.
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May 15, 2016 11:57
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Thank you for reaffirming my position by disagreeing with me, now I just need Baal to come do the same so that I can be 100% secure in my correctness edit: I will try to compose an actual seriouspost about my thoughts on this issue when it's not 7 in the morning and I haven't slept, because it's one that's actually super important to me and my ability to enjoy a story. Jolyne Cujoh fucked around with this message at 12:01 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 11:57
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:Thank you for reaffirming my position by disagreeing with me, now I just need Baal to come do the same so that I can be 100% secure in my correctness Saying "it's dumb and bad" isn't shedding any light on anything. Makes the reader "feel cheated" is subjective. I don't feel cheated either way. Dying without accomplishing anything is not a good or even valid reason for "this protagonist death sucks". It just translates to: "I don't like it, so it sucks"
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May 15, 2016 12:01
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Jolyne is right
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May 15, 2016 12:16
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I didn't mind the other deaths in SBR, but yeah HP's death just didn't do a very good job showing that she died. I dunno what about it I missed though. I mean, the world was shifting everything around and in the process she glass merged with her heart, cutting it up, so of course she's dead, so I"m not sure why I didn't seem to understand that at the time. I'm also a dummy tho cause I legit missed that diego got cut in half by the train despite it showing diego missing his lower half
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May 15, 2016 12:50
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Character deaths should suit the pacing of the scene. It would make no sense for the Stone Ocean gang to get protracted dramatic death scenes when the point is they're getting effortlessly slaughtered by a seemingly unbeatable foe. Hot Pants' death is pretty similar in that she dies halfway through an action scene without even getting close to killing Valentine. Diego didn't really give a poo poo about her so there's be no reason for him to dramatically break down like Johnny does over Gyro and as she doesn't even get a real shot at him there's no reason to draw out her defeat like say Caesar vs Wamuu, Kakyoin vs DIO or Gyro vs Valentine. Like sure, Hot Pants could have had a bigger role in the story or more powerful Stand or whatever but as it was there's no reason to give her a big death scene when the setpiece is only halfway finished.
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May 15, 2016 12:57
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Character deaths should be at least very clear as to whether or not they actually died.
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May 15, 2016 13:40
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:Everyone I cared about dying at the end of SO was also dumb and bad. Well I liked Emporio so there
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May 15, 2016 13:42
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I like Yukako, but yeah, she's a bit too tied to Koichi. Then again, pretty much everyone in Part 4 likes Koichi or learns to like Koichi by the end, so it's not all that unusual.Momomo posted:I'd say people constantly threatening to rape Lucy Steel was worse. This is especially weird coming from Valentine, given how otherwise sympathetic of an antagonist he is. Jolyne Cujoh posted:Gyro gets bit by a fish. Wait, that's what he died from? I thought D4C reflected Ball Breaker's damage partially into his heart. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 14:50 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 14:32
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Funky Valentine posted:Character deaths should be at least very clear as to whether or not they actually died. Did... did Jet just die?
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May 15, 2016 15:17
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Funky Valentine posted:Character deaths should be at least very clear as to whether or not they actually died. Yeah, I'd it could have been spelt out clearer, especially as because of the bizarre body contortions people go through quite regularly and survive in later JoJos. But in principle I think sudden characters deaths can be perfectly fair, depending on the context.
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May 15, 2016 15:39
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It wouldn't have been especially nice but seeing HP hit the ground and getting minced up in the train, or similar things that clearly show she died to establish her death more concretely would have been a simple thing to include and driven the point home.
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May 15, 2016 15:41
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I might be the only person who didn't care about Hot Pants enough one way or the other to notice she wasn't around anymore.
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May 15, 2016 16:10
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Hot Pants' ability was to shoot meat flesh from a spray can and her name was Hot Pants so I was a fan
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May 15, 2016 16:23
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I was an instant fan of Hot Pants since her introduction is threatening to hang Johnny and Gyro for stealing meat from her tree cows. Also besides her anticlimactic death, the fight against Valentine is really good.
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May 15, 2016 16:33
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Have you guys ever considered that the Pillar Men were the Queens of the Stone Age?
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May 15, 2016 17:04
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Guys, you can do effortlessly slaughtered and fast deaths without having it be anticlimactic as rear end. Avdol's death was fine. You're given signals that something is going to happen once he sees that message. He pauses, cautiously looks back, and sees some sort of inter-dimensional hell-monster. The tension is high as poo poo. Then he pushes Polnareff and Iggy out of the way before being sent to the dark realm. Polnareff, like the reader, goes "wtf" and is in disbelief that Avdol is dead. Avdol's death fuels his anger, leading into the next fight. Finally, at the end of the fight, you see Avdol's spirit, giving Polnareff the thumbs up and his character a final sendoff. I am sorry, but this is better than Hot Pants just sort of getting a window shoved in her for a single panel, or seeing the corpses of the part 6 cast and the chapter ending. Butt Ghost fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 17:14
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See: Stone Ocean, Steel Ball Run.
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May 15, 2016 17:18
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josuke this trolling has to stop
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May 15, 2016 17:20
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FirstAidKite posted:I'm also a dummy tho cause I legit missed that diego got cut in half by the train despite it showing diego missing his lower half I noticed him cut in half, but I figured there have been stuff on that level that guys have lived through before, so it was just a matter of Hot Pants fixing him up. He also sounded more grumpy than on his deathbed when he was complaining about Valentine, so it really didn't seem like a death. Only when they start talking about the alternate Dio did I realize he was supposed to have died there. Hobgoblin2099 posted:This is especially weird coming from Valentine, given how otherwise sympathetic of an antagonist he is. ...Sympathetic? Butt Ghost posted:Guys, you can do effortlessly slaughtered and fast deaths without having it be anticlimactic as rear end. I mean we essentially got that in Part 6 where Jolyne bet the fate of the entire world on breaking her line for Emperio before dying, and we even got a sendoff of all the characters in the alternate world. Hot Pants dying felt more like we were just missing a page that showed her on the ground.
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May 15, 2016 17:29
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With Jolyne I can see that. But I never really felt that way with anyone else. Especially Poster Boy Jotaro. Though I've never been a fan of the reincarnation through Ireniverse thing. It wipes the sleight too clean I guess.
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May 15, 2016 17:32
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Everything about the end of Stone Ocean is "kill Pucci before he completes Heaven or we will almost certainly die" and they don't and it comes down to Jotaro having to save Jolyne and doom the world or kill Pucci and watch Jolyne die. He chooses the former and that's it, they lose. Man who moves essentially faster than time then proceeds to annihilate the team because they can't keep up. Everything about Stone Ocean builds up to it, it's telegraphed. Just like Vento is a race for the arrow and the one who can make their Stand a Requiem will win. The characters still get their send off regardless, even though they were absolutely defeated barring Emporio. He succeeds because Jolyne bought him time enough to escape with Weather Report and he creates a universe where the Joestar's spirits were reincarnated into a world without based DIO (lovely world tbh). The situation is very much similar in Steel Ball Run. Ticket to Ride was acting in Valentine's favour, they're straight up on train that can't stop because the driver is 10 shades of hosed so the battle itself isn't stationary, it's a moving situation which means there's no time to stop and think (as was Pucci's pursuing the Joestar group in 6). As has been said, HP being dead is poorly established but there's no time to dwell on that in the narrative. The entire continent is gravitating towards the train they're on and Gyro and Johnny have to stop Valentine while they can. When the villain is in a dominant fluid position, there's no reason or need to dwell on the deaths of protagonists. These are the pages that establish her death   Liking things you don't =/= trolling sorry. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 17:35
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I'm dead
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May 15, 2016 17:36
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