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Cyrano4747 posted:If you ever get that mg42 blanks bullshit again here is why it's impossible: a blank won't cycle the bolt on an automatic. Without the bullet to build pressure there just isn't enough force. When guns fire blanks they need a way to keep pressures high enough to cycle the bolt. The most common is a blank firing device which is usually a thing that fits over the muzzle to keep the gasses from escaping too quick. Firing regular ammo out of a gun with a blank firing adapter on it is NOT a good idea. Wait, you mean Die Hard 2 lied to me?
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May 15, 2016 07:15
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If you like war movies or action movies never get into guns. The iconic scene in The Longest Day when the GI gets shot because he mistook a bolt action rifle for a clacker? poo poo don't work that way.
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May 15, 2016 07:43
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you like war movies or action movies never get into guns. The iconic scene in The Longest Day when the GI gets shot because he mistook a bolt action rifle for a clacker? poo poo don't work that way. The last time I saw that scene I groaned at how stupid it was.
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May 15, 2016 07:49
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you ever get that mg42 blanks bullshit again here is why it's impossible: a blank won't cycle the bolt on an automatic. Without the bullet to build pressure there just isn't enough force. When guns fire blanks they need a way to keep pressures high enough to cycle the bolt. The most common is a blank firing device which is usually a thing that fits over the muzzle to keep the gasses from escaping too quick. Firing regular ammo out of a gun with a blank firing adapter on it is NOT a good idea. I mean, yeah, but this guy had no idea and was not taking anything I gave him. All he knew was that there were these things called blanks and this young nerd is insulting his intelligence by disagreeing loving kids these days. Overall these people are rare, and I love what I do.
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May 15, 2016 16:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQygRVvEmM&feature=youtu.be Trigger warning for Cryano4747: Excessive bashing of one of the things the Wehrmacht was good at. Is this crap, no, I know it's crap, I just can't remember if this youtube pundit was one of the ones that usually knows his poo poo or not. So hard to keep track of who's telling the truth and who's making stuff up.
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May 15, 2016 17:18
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It's like listening to someone having a fit. I'll save you 11 minutes. He loving cops out. "Neither was better." He generalises the MG-34 and MG-42 and lumps them together. He casually mentions that the Bren is great because "it stood the test of time" and they still make them in India or whatever. I don't think he mentions anything related to the MG-3, which is essentially an MG-42, and is still in use and in production. He also goes on to say something along the lines of "If the Spandau was so good then why didn't everyone adopt it after the war?" which is odd since it was, and it did influence other designs. I don't think I heard anything about a comparison of ammunition capacity, which the belt-fed weapon would win hands-down. No mention of the "Spandau's" barrel overheating, or the different barrel change methods (I personally hate the MG-34s barrel change method), etc.. etc... There was a bit about ammunition and losing ground or something but I'm dead tired and I keep wanting that guy to sit down. I would not recommend this video to friends and family.
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May 15, 2016 17:40
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"The Bren was better because the Allies won." That's the line you need to take away from the video. What a goddamn hack. Somewhere around 9:18
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May 15, 2016 17:41
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you can't even really compare them, they are two totally different design concepts for different roles. If you need to compare the Bren to something it would be another box fed LMG. gently caress, it would be better compared to the BAR than any belt fed from the war. It doens't really matter, though, as "what gun was better than the other gun" arguments are always pointless. Switch out the small arms used by the US Army and the Germans and the war still happens exactly as it did. edit: also the whole reason German MGs were so effective in WW2 was that they had an infantry doctrine that was entirely built around them. edit x2: did he really refer to the MG34 and 42 generically as "Spandau" guns? That's really loving odd. Usually when someone talks about a "Spandau" they're talking about the WW1 era MG08 or MG08/15
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May 15, 2016 17:55
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I think Warlord game used Spandau when writing about Maoris in Greece and Crete, but, ugh, not much of a source, that. There were some German soldiers at the military-community day yesterday, and one guy was really hype about his Fenek-mounted MG-3. Said "my grandfather used it" and I wondered if he meant his WWII German grandpa 
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May 15, 2016 18:10
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you ever get that mg42 blanks bullshit again here is why it's impossible: a blank won't cycle the bolt on an automatic. 100% right, when I was in the USMC we used those BFAs all the time, and I've seen times where someone had an M-16 that maybe wasn't too clean that wouldn't cycle on semi with blanks and BFA. Maybe the BFA wasn't screwed in tightly enough. Makes me wonder though, do they use some kind of super-blank in movies? e: clarification MrMojok fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 18:19
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What if you armed M113 Gavins with Spandau-42's?MrMojok posted:Makes me wonder though, do they use some kind of super-blank in movies? It's also safer that way because real guns on a set are always a hazard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_(1994_film)#Brandon_Lee.27s_death
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May 15, 2016 18:30
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Cyrano4747 posted:you can't even really compare them, they are two totally different design concepts for different roles. If you need to compare the Bren to something it would be another box fed LMG. gently caress, it would be better compared to the BAR than any belt fed from the war. Dam it, did you not see my trigger warning? I'm trying to protect you from stupid bullshit! You know, so you'll post in the ghost thread faster.
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May 15, 2016 18:45
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It's common in Russia to refer to foreign guns by a name instead of their index (Schmeisser, Parabellum, etc), but I've never heard anyone call the MG42 "Spandau".
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May 15, 2016 18:49
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Ensign Expendable posted:It's common in Russia to refer to foreign guns by a name instead of their index (Schmeisser, Parabellum, etc), but I've never heard anyone call the MG42 "Spandau". Wasn't it a British Tommy slang term for German MGs that was a holdover from the Great War?
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May 15, 2016 18:53
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Ensign Expendable posted:It's common in Russia to refer to foreign guns by a name instead of their index (Schmeisser, Parabellum, etc), but I've never heard anyone call the MG42 "Spandau". But that's what EVERYONE called them at the time! You see, I know this stuff! Also whenever I hear someone saying 'Hetzer' I will throw a glass of water at them and start shrieking "IT IS CALLED JAGDPANZER 38 (T), HETZER IS NOT THE REAL NAME!"
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May 15, 2016 18:56
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MrMojok posted:100% right, when I was in the USMC we used those BFAs all the time, and I've seen times where someone had an M-16 that maybe wasn't too clean that wouldn't cycle on semi with blanks and BFA. Maybe the BFA wasn't screwed in tightly enough. Automatics used in movies are blank converted by heavily constricting the barrel and leaving it the normal diameter at the breech and muzzle, then using powerful blanks with huge flashes. You're still able to use non-automatic guns with blanks without a conversion, hence Brandon Lee's death by revolver.
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May 15, 2016 18:58
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Actually you shouldn't say Suomi submachinegun because no one called it that, people at the time just said konepistooli. So from now on just say konepistooli when referring to Suomi KP M/31 if you want me to take you seriously.
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May 15, 2016 18:58
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chitoryu12 posted:Automatics used in movies are blank converted by heavily constricting the barrel and leaving it the normal diameter at the breech and muzzle, then using powerful blanks with huge flashes. Wow, I did not know that! I'll bet those are a bitch to clean. MrMojok fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 19:11
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Nenonen posted:Actually you shouldn't say Suomi submachinegun because no one called it that, people at the time just said konepistooli. So from now on just say konepistooli when referring to Suomi KP M/31 if you want me to take you seriously. Americans called it "Hitler's Buzzsaw." "HITLER'S BUZZSAW NEST TWO O'CLOCK. TAKE OUT THAT HITLER'S BUZZSAW."
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May 15, 2016 19:21
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There are also blank guns that can't load live ammo at all. They only chamber special blank cartridges like 9mm PAK and are liable to explode if you forced live ammo into them. It's possible in the US to have them mailed to your house with no legal red tape, leading to...predictable results. https://youtu.be/ItTXPKyQYlU
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May 15, 2016 20:27
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chitoryu12 posted:You're still able to use non-automatic guns with blanks without a conversion, hence Brandon Lee's death by revolver. Brandon Lee's death was this bizarre set of circumstances. They're using a revolver, and for some shots you want to film the guy loading bullets into it, and you can't use blanks for that because blanks don't look like real cartridges. But you don't want live rounds and real guns on a set because it can kill people. But instead of just buying dummy rounds from a prop company, they made their own by pulling the bullets from real cartridges, dumping the powder, and putting the bullets back in. But they left the primers in (probably because if you pull the primer it's pretty visible), and at some point someone squeezed the trigger, and the primer had enough oomph to drive the bullet partway down the barrel. Later in filming, now they have to fire that gun. So they pull out the dummy rounds and insert blanks, which have no bullets but do have a powder charge. Nobody checks the barrel for obstruction, and the blank round has enough force to fire the lodged bullet right into Brandon lee. It's not as egregiously stupid as Jon-Erik Hexum, who didn't think blanks can hurt you and put a prop .44 Magnum loaded with blanks against his head and jokingly pulled the trigger. But it's pretty damned close.
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May 15, 2016 21:16
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Cyrano4747 posted:you can't even really compare them, they are two totally different design concepts for different roles. If you need to compare the Bren to something it would be another box fed LMG. gently caress, it would be better compared to the BAR than any belt fed from the war. Where do I go if I want actual good analysis of ground level stuff? Organisation of men on a small scale fascinates me and everything on YouTube seems to be bollocks.
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May 15, 2016 21:17
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Phanatic posted:It's not as egregiously stupid as Jon-Erik Hexum, who didn't think blanks can hurt you and put a prop .44 Magnum loaded with blanks against his head and jokingly pulled the trigger. But it's pretty damned close. fortunately his organs, except for the brain, were functional and helped other people
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May 15, 2016 21:23
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Nenonen posted:Actually you shouldn't say Suomi submachinegun because no one called it that, people at the time just said konepistooli. So from now on just say konepistooli when referring to Suomi KP M/31 if you want me to take you seriously. I prefer "Finn-PPSh" 
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May 15, 2016 21:30
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Plan Z posted:It's especially bad when a myth originates from soldiers' stories, even when they're very obviously erroneous. Besides the line of myths that come up when I get to the Sherman tank, the most common one I've heard is how American weapons, especially the M1 Carbine, could not penetrate the thick coats of NK/PRC troops in Korea. That one has gotten contentious twice because on top of all of the various answers, the top one is "The GIs missed their shots." Both of these people got insanely offended that any US Veteran could be wrong and how dare I and what's my source. It's been teaching me to watch how I answer certain questions. Out of curiosity, what's your fix for this? One of the regular things I run into wargaming is the "Tigers prowled normandy and murdered shermans with impunity, my GI grandpa told me so" thing, and yeah, you get a lot of "are you calling my grandpa a liar?" type responses if you suggest that it's probably pretty easy to mistake a Pz IV for a tiger at a distance*. *I've mistaken, among other things, Panzer IVs for Tigers, Panthers for KTs, T-80s for T-44s, T25s/M26s/M46s for each other, and Bulldogs for Pattons in WT, and that's with a relatively relaxed attitude that comes from playing a dumb tank game between revision, so I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're wholly convinced you're about to die on top of that and people aren't idiots who drive right up to you regularly to make it super easy to ID them. EDIT: M109 for M60, too.
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May 15, 2016 22:50
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spectralent posted:Out of curiosity, what's your fix for this? One of the regular things I run into wargaming is the "Tigers prowled normandy and murdered shermans with impunity, my GI grandpa told me so" thing, and yeah, you get a lot of "are you calling my grandpa a liar?" type responses if you suggest that it's probably pretty easy to mistake a Pz IV for a tiger at a distance*. The reality is that most people's grandfathers were ignorant (and possibly idiotic) farm boys who had never been out of their home state before, much less to europe, much less knew gently caress all about anything about military poo poo that didn't pertain to the exact job they had. They were just as likely to be full of poo poo as anyone else and, frankly, were just as likely to lie about or embellish their experiences as anyone else. A lot of people's veteran grandfathers were simply mistaken about the insane poo poo they said after the war, doubly so when you're talking about stories told to people who weren't there, sixty years later. But of course you can't say that, because no one is willing to accept that their grandfather was anything but an infallible oracle. To suggest otherwise apparently discredits his service, his patriotism, his bravery, and probably the size of the dick he stuck in grandma after the war. For what it's worth this is a constant headache for historians. Figuring out how much you can trust survivor testimony is one of the major issues in Holocaust scholarship, for example.
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May 15, 2016 23:11
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I more meant in the sense of "what's people's routes for getting it across tactfully that people can be wrong, it's really easy, and it's not a moral failing" 
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May 15, 2016 23:19
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spectralent posted:I more meant in the sense of "what's people's routes for getting it across tactfully that people can be wrong, it's really easy, and it's not a moral failing" abandon all hope, the person who throws the "my grandpappy" card doesn't want to hear it. It's an easy appeal to authority. Frankly I think half the time it's just bullshit. It's always a grandfather who was throwing grenades down the hatches of Tigers, never a grandfather who sat in a weather station in Iceland and heard from his cousin who worked in a motor pool in London that poo poo was going down in France.
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May 15, 2016 23:23
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spectralent posted:Out of curiosity, what's your fix for this? One of the regular things I run into wargaming is the "Tigers prowled normandy and murdered shermans with impunity, my GI grandpa told me so" thing, and yeah, you get a lot of "are you calling my grandpa a liar?" type responses if you suggest that it's probably pretty easy to mistake a Pz IV for a tiger at a distance*. We have to understand vets at the end of the day were people who lived extraordinary (as in unique) lives. Look at the Panzer III, IV, and VI from the front. They all just look like big metal boxes, right? Now remember that the average engagement range was between 300 and 500 meters. At those ranges, those big metal boxes look like tiny metal boxes to men without a lot of vision options operating in the most stressful situation imaginable. And we didn't even engage all that many tanks in the big picture of things. There's also the Belton Cooper situation where he saw big holes in tanks and naturally assumed that they were done by other tanks. Add in the fact that he only every saw busted-up tanks, and you can almost forgive him for assuming the worst. He didn't know what gun knocked out what tank, if the crew survived, the operational successes of these units in the overall scheme of things. He just saw shitloads of tanks that had been shot up, blown up, trapped, or broken down. It's all a matter of perception when it comes to people talking about their experiences. Their stories are history, and like all history, we need to add context and further examine their stories to find the truth. Cyrano4747 posted:abandon all hope, the person who throws the "my grandpappy" card doesn't want to hear it. It's an easy appeal to authority. True. There were a lot of Sniper Grandpas who said what Death Traps said word-for-word. My only two relatives to make it out of the war alive were a plane mechanic and a POW camp guard. They both had some incredibly funny and interesting stories, but there always seems to be stigma among the general population for any serviceman who's not a trigger-puller. I remember hearing all kinds of poo poo in movies and general discussion just digging on people for driving trucks in the army or something when to me it's impressive that someone was a part of the most insanely large logistic monster in military history. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 00:20
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I have a weirdly high amount of relatives who did "Interesting" stuff in the war but my direct ancestors either got bombed or built sanitation works for bases in the UK. Grandma had an uncle who died in WW1 and one brother who served in the grenadier guards and one in a spitfire, though. Probably the most interesting story I know in my social circle is someone who's grandad wasn't evacuated at Dunkirk and spent about half a year fleeing back to the UK like a really hardboiled version of around the world in eighty days.
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May 16, 2016 01:37
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Okay, so who here read Blind Man's Bluff, about all the spy submarine stuff that SNN-587 Halibut did? Okay, great, so did I. Fantastic book. So me and my boss's dad (who takes care of the chickens) are shooting the poo poo the other day, and I know he was a submariner on a bunch of different boats, and we're mostly talking about the sort of stuff my grandpa might have done on the SS-347 Cubera. He mentions that they might have done some light espionage, and me being a clever clogs, goes "Oh, but not as cool as the Halibut and the undersea cable tapping stuff." And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I was there for that. We almost died so many times." He served on the Halibut for a year during the Operation Ivy Bell stuff. Whaaaaaat. He's gonna give me an old Halibut patch he's got kicking around, he's gotta find it first though. I am psyched. Suspect Bucket fucked around with this message at 02:07 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 01:44
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Suspect Bucket posted:Okay, so who here read Blind Man's Bluff, about all the spy submarine stuff that SNN-587 Halibut did? Okay, great, so did I. Fantastic book. That's awesome. A buddy of mine was next door neighbors with the guy who was skipper of the USS Alabama right before Crimson Tide came out. I met him one time years ago. Dude did not like Gene Hackman.
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May 16, 2016 01:58
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Veritek83 posted:That's awesome. A buddy of mine was next door neighbors with the guy who was skipper of the USS Alabama right before Crimson Tide came out. I met him one time years ago. Dude did not like Gene Hackman. But did he hate the dog?
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May 16, 2016 02:07
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Phanatic posted:Brandon Lee's death was this bizarre set of circumstances. And the only reason this happen at all is because they were filming without their armorer, so you had guys who knew just enough about guns to be dangerous pulling bullets and forgetting to check barrels for obstructions.
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May 16, 2016 03:49
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also why would you waste perfectly good powder without any bullets
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May 16, 2016 07:45
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Cyrano4747 posted:The reality is that most people's grandfathers were ignorant (and possibly idiotic) farm boys who had never been out of their home state before, much less to europe, much less knew gently caress all about anything about military poo poo that didn't pertain to the exact job they had. They were just as likely to be full of poo poo as anyone else and, frankly, were just as likely to lie about or embellish their experiences as anyone else. A lot of people's veteran grandfathers were simply mistaken about the insane poo poo they said after the war, doubly so when you're talking about stories told to people who weren't there, sixty years later. I always liked my grandpa's one war story: He was a radio operator on a Victory ship. A Liberty ship? one of those two classes of ww1-era transports that were still serving in WWII. His bunk was directly below a deck gun, and whenever they tested them while he was asleep, he would jerk his body up into the bulkhead. Got concussed a couple times that way. That was his only WWII story.
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May 16, 2016 08:01
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The rrst is probably about dinking and whoring in port.
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May 16, 2016 10:21
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One of my relatives was a Red Army Penal soldier at one point. Probably sucked. Apparently disagreed with his political officer over sending letters home. He was a SU85 driver before that.
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May 16, 2016 11:07
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Cyrano4747 posted:abandon all hope, the person who throws the "my grandpappy" card doesn't want to hear it. It's an easy appeal to authority. My Grandad wasn't a trigger puller, but didn't get any stick for it. Then again, he was a  motorbike courier with the Desert Rats and won some medals. I'd like to think for doing some sweet jumps under fire like a Mancunian Steve McQueen (I know the truth is probably a lot more boring). I don't think he fired a shot during the war though.
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May 16, 2016 12:15
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If it wasn't for boring supplyline poo poo we wouldn't have The Caine Mutiny
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