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Yukitsu posted:The stat lines are for each gun. Each lance battery has 2 guns, hence 2 lance batteries is 4 lances. So each lance deals 12 damage, there are 2 lances per battery for 24 damage, 2 batteries are 4 guns dealing 48 damage. Source? I would assume the stat lines are for what they say they are, which is the listed four weapons. There are lance batteries that take multiple shots in this game, but the Gothic's 4x lance batteries do not. Are you just making this up because it sounds right to you?
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May 15, 2016 08:12
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay go look at it again before you continue this conversation. Alright, here we go: Gothic: Each lance does 12 damage every 12 seconds. That's one damage per second per lance, so 4 DPS per broadside. Dauntless: The single lance deals 24 damage every 8 seconds. That's 3 DPS. So the Gothic does in fact have more lance power in a single broadside than the Dauntless on the prow, and proportionally it lines up perfectly with the tabletop stats. And just for comparison, let's look at the Chaos Hellbringer: It's got two shots for 4 damage each every 8 seconds. That's 1 DPS, multiplied by two turrets that's 2 lance DPS per broadside. So really, everything looks to be in order to me? It's true that the Dauntless' prow lance is pretty drat powerful, but that has always been its thing, and comes at the cost of not having similarly powerful torpedoes. If anything it's weaker than in TT, since it's relatively more expensive compared to the Gothic here. Fake edit: Arglebargle III posted:I think this is probably a mistake, since this is half as powerful as it was in tabletop and everything else maps very closely to tabletop. I don't believe a Gothic is supposed to cost 140 points for a broadside equal to the dorsal lances of a battlecruiser, which is only 30 points more.
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May 15, 2016 08:25
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... the Gothic has four weapons. Not eight. As stated in the stat screen. What is so hard about this concept? You guys are all saying that the stat screen is wrong, and there are actually eight weapons. Do you know that? Have you tested it? I feel like we've finally arrived back at my original question: do you think the stat screen is lying, or is the Gothic's lance strength messed up? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 09:45 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 09:36
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Arglebargle III posted:
I'ma quote one of the devs on this, bruh. Sraight from the stickied thread they literally started to address this sort of confusion and to see where their tooltips are bad or wrong. quote:WEAPONRY TOOLTIP DAMAGES The Gothic has two lance betteries per side. Each lance battery fires two guns (right now only in-game/on-model counting tells us this). Count barrels/turrets, then multiply indicated damage values by the counted number. Alchenar posted:Arglebargle strikes another thread I see. I'm a little scared, honestly. I didn't really provide any information others haven't, I just retread the concept that tooltips for batteries just show the stats of an individual weapon in the grouping. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 09:49 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 09:44
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Arglebargle strikes another thread I see.
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May 15, 2016 09:46
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Ah so the tool tips are wrong. Thanks for having an actual answer instead of a long tangent.
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May 15, 2016 09:48
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Arglebargle III posted:... the Gothic has four weapons. Not eight. As stated in the stat screen. What is so hard about this concept? And we're trying to tell you that that's not how the game counts it. The ship has four batteries. Each of those batteries has two weapons. The statline applies to each weapon. That's how it works as per the developers' statements, and is easily verifiable ingame. If you want to test it yourself, just load up a small game with a Dauntless and check its broadside fire. It has one broadside macrobattery per side with a damage of 6. Each battery has a six guns. Drain the some ship's shields, hit the cogitators, and watch its healthpoints. Each individual shell fired by each cannon (that gets through the armour) will deal six damage, rather than the entire salvo causing six damage alltogether.
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May 15, 2016 09:58
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The dauntless prow lance has the same DPS as a single IN broadside lance battery. Gothic has two lance batteries on each side (4 turrets).
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May 15, 2016 13:34
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Ugh reading back over that I was much less clear about what I meant and came off like I was dense. I wanted to know if the tooltip was wrong but didn't mention it in half my posts. Phone posting.
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May 15, 2016 17:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Ugh reading back over that I was much less clear about what I meant and came off like I was dense. I wanted to know if the tooltip was wrong but didn't mention it in half my posts. Phone posting. I think you should have been able to get from our answers that the stat profiles are correct but incomplete. The numbers are all correct on those profiles but they do not include the number of guns per battery on the statline which they should. So on your comment that the tooltips are wrong, not exactly. They have incomplete information but the numbers that are there are accurate.
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May 15, 2016 19:32
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Ork Battleship question: What kind of brawler build do you gents use? I picked 3 broadsides, but I think having double mega kannon in the front and x2 broadsides is the way to go. How about favors? I'm leaning towards Goffs for the sweet ram bonus, but evil sunz with tractor spam seems like it's never a bad option.
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May 15, 2016 21:24
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The 44-45 damage prow gun is pretty amazing. Most pubs don't seem to actually check the opponent's weapons setup so they're instinctively going to be staying away from the boarding arcs and only worrying about you pointing at them for when they have to mash their MWD to avoid rams.
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May 15, 2016 22:11
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BULBASAUR posted:Ork Battleship question: So on the debate of lots of gun vs kannons for side: I have compared cruiser classes and the broadside of the full kannon one tends to do some insane damage SOMETIMES. Decent to good damage otherwise. Noticed if I get dodged on the ram my ship, it still nails the bastard freakin hard when it passes between the kannons and boarding combo. My other combo LOG and Kannons do appreciatively less. Hate to follow the general online guides (the BGF wikia one) but Kannons seem to be the way to go since you will almost always be stuck in and point blank. Mega Kannons are fun and nice to soften up the target for ramming but I love my torpedoes and they have won multiple games for me so I tend to keep them. Zzaps are really and sadly lacking. I cut my ships with them down to one. Only because its fun and I love the concept but it has not ever proven useful. I want to love them so much tho....  Favours? Goffs for extra ladz (+10 troop) and boarding plus 50% ramming is amazing. If grot launcha's weren't terrible they would make Goff Carriers fearsome. Goff is still an amazing klan of choice. Evil sunz, more red button and Traktor is a blast and so worth every penny but a full team of them gets a tad cheesy. Not as bad as eldar cheese but it makes the game less fun for your opponent. Good compromise? Do what a good said and take both. Make one the "get back ere" boat and the other the main Goff headbutter. Either ship can go and between the two you will cause some serious mayhem. Blood Axe gets ya nova kannon and stealth which is alright. Don't really like doing it on anything big but a fast cruiser with it scares the crap out of eldar as they are used to people going all in on nova cannon and well.... they are just scared of nova cannon. I always feel nova cannon ork heavy armies is kinda missing the point of playing orks but that might just be me. Bad Moon is fairly nice for lil guys like Light Cruisers. Extra Upgrade is nice and I have had some amazing success with shokk attack cannon and crippling eldar ships. I really hate eldar and I dont wanna do Nova Cannon all the time. Seems to hit them more but mebbe its just my luck. Power game wise? All Sunz or 50/50 Sunz/Goff. Fun wise? Mix em as they all are fun. I'd stick Goff on yer Cruisers and BGs as they are a nice mix of troop value+toughness and will usually come out on the winning side of multiple rammings/engagements. If they don't it's guaranteed you have buggered up everything in the area fairly hard before you go kaboom. Unless you got smart + full kite chaos or eldar that always pulsar out of sight range that is. edit: oh yeah the pathfinder webway assault eldar portin auto crit attack that can score through shield can eat a dick. Bloody Eldar nailing my engines before I ever see em and I have full shields is retarded. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 09:21
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New to the game, is there ever a reason to not have your ships keep their target lock when you move them?
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May 16, 2016 10:01
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Main thing with Ork battleship that pushes me to the nose kannon instead of torps is the point cost. With Mega Kannon and the rest of your points in heavy kannonz on your sides it drops the point cost to 194, which lets you fit a light cruiser in. Sure, the light cruiser doesn't bring a ton of firepower to the table, but another traktor and taunt is sure nice.
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May 16, 2016 10:36
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Famethrowa posted:New to the game, is there ever a reason to not have your ships keep their target lock when you move them? It fucks up Eldar auto aim for their pulsars, but otherwise not really. You can just set priority target and get similar result though.
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May 16, 2016 12:17
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Von_Doom posted:
Pretty sure that ability starts the match on a five minute cool down. Still dumb but they can't gently caress you over right at the start.
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May 16, 2016 14:54
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Von_Doom posted:So on the debate of lots of gun vs kannons for side: I have compared cruiser classes and the broadside of the full kannon one tends to do some insane damage SOMETIMES. Decent to good damage otherwise. Noticed if I get dodged on the ram my ship, it still nails the bastard freakin hard when it passes between the kannons and boarding combo. My other combo LOG and Kannons do appreciatively less. Hate to follow the general online guides (the BGF wikia one) but Kannons seem to be the way to go since you will almost always be stuck in and point blank. Mega Kannons are fun and nice to soften up the target for ramming but I love my torpedoes and they have won multiple games for me so I tend to keep them. Zzaps are really and sadly lacking. I cut my ships with them down to one. Only because its fun and I love the concept but it has not ever proven useful. I want to love them so much tho.... I wouldn't hate on the zaps too much, though I only take a few myself. They do a lot more damage over the course of a game than people sort of realize, almost always firing, constantly racking up damage in the background. I like having enough to knock out the shields on escorts or light cruisers before we get into range so that the mega kannon can one shot the little bastards, but even after that they have an astounding crit rate ticking along that I think mostly goes unnoticed. The way I think of it, 1 mega zap is worth the entire lance turret value on the retribution, taking a few of those is outputting a big chunk of damage that can force shield overcharges at a distance leaving ships open for your heavy kannons, it can cause damage as you chase against kitier factions and it is great against small escort ships which orks don't necessarily have an easy time against. One of the other reasons I like them is that orks can do amazing damage focusing on their front firing arc while constantly trying to get into a position for a ram. Because of that I don't usually take 2 heavy kannons on the sides, though broadside ork can be really potent, the heavy guns are actually more effective on the savage gun ships much of the time simply because they're better able to focus fire on a single target, it's harder to maneuver out of their fire arc and they face their 75 armour side while using those guns. I like equipping my big ships with other weapons and then packing enough savages to make up the difference.
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May 16, 2016 17:56
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Both my BCs are twin zaaps and like Yukitsu is saying they work well with a screen of funships as a counter to eldar or chaos. I never take them against IN or Orks. I'm also experimenting with a cruiser with tractor, MW jump, extended range sensors, and taunt. Jump forward 9.5K, taunt, tractor, target engines, boarding torpedoes, ram, and lightning strike. Zaaps help chink away the stripped armour. Hope the gimmick does enough damage because it's your only chance against some eldar builds. When I brawl I take as many cruisers as I can, the gorkmark, and a small screen of funships. I get out orked now and then, but poor IN usually doesn't stand a chance.
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May 16, 2016 20:57
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Are there any terrible bugs/a sense of incompleteness present in the game at the moment? I remember seeing the game when it was Early Access, and that's often a warning sign, so I held off. Gothic is awesome, though, and I really want to ram people with orkz. Is the game good to go? (I'll still wait for the steam summer sale, regardless, but hey.)
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May 16, 2016 22:58
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The game was never technically in Early Access, it just had a lengthy beta for people who preordered but was essentially feature-complete. Anyway, nothing gamebreaking outside of that one patch.
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May 17, 2016 00:05
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Aeble posted:Are there any terrible bugs/a sense of incompleteness present in the game at the moment? I remember seeing the game when it was Early Access, and that's often a warning sign, so I held off. Gothic is awesome, though, and I really want to ram people with orkz. Is the game good to go? I'm a huge Warhammer fan so might be a bit biased, but I think this is a brilliant game. The only criticism right now: -Ship painter needed! -More variety in the multiplayer maps -Needs proper matchmaking and custom game making. Should be able to dick about testing setups with the AI -Eldar are in some playstyles still super super OP -The single player towards the later turns does get a bit tedious... But I was doing very very well by the last 2-3 turns so I could just mash end turn without doing any of the usual firefighting. Maybe just me. The story missions are brilliant but the other missions get a bit samey
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May 17, 2016 07:19
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I really wish they'd just get rid of the leveling system or give a multiplayer mode with everything unlocked and swap-able.
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May 17, 2016 12:04
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Stanley Pain posted:I really wish they'd just get rid of the leveling system or give a multiplayer mode with everything unlocked and swap-able. This triggers me. If you remove progression, multiplayer will die. This will also make ship loss useless, further reducing the novel features of this game.
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May 17, 2016 16:30
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Aeble posted:Are there any terrible bugs/a sense of incompleteness present in the game at the moment? I remember seeing the game when it was Early Access, and that's often a warning sign, so I held off. Gothic is awesome, though, and I really want to ram people with orkz. Is the game good to go? Bugs aren't too bad, game is very solid now. Incompleteness is more of an issue. Major features that I really want are still missing; can't 1v1 with friends or 2v2 with friends against AI (although you can 2v2 with friends against people) The multi is fun, the single player campaign is pretty well polished and gots lots of fun stuff, and there's more content coming. But some parts of it still feel a little rushed to market and need a little more expanding. I can't wait for the next patch. Also Space Marines, Tau, and Tyranids are all coming and I want those bad. Its pretty much good to go though yeah. Stanley Pain posted:I really wish they'd just get rid of the leveling system or give a multiplayer mode with everything unlocked and swap-able. This is what 1v1 customs are for, and its coming. I want it bad. I have some friends who are interested in this game but I need to be able to play 1v1s with them and 2v2s vs AI to teach them the rules, plus just because playing together is fun times.
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May 17, 2016 16:39
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Zaphod42 posted:Bugs aren't too bad, game is very solid now. I coulda sworn I was playing a 1v1 custom game the other night. It gave me the choice of a random team, or using one of my admirals that I have already built up. Random is fun.
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May 17, 2016 17:03
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Gay Hitler posted:This triggers me. ... Gay hitler has been triggered... The progressive part of multiplayer is needed, but it's also a slog and unbalanced. I know it comes from tabletop, but i feel like there could be a better solution.
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May 17, 2016 17:15
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RFC2324 posted:I coulda sworn I was playing a 1v1 custom game the other night. It gave me the choice of a random team, or using one of my admirals that I have already built up. Random is fun. Maybe 1v1s are in now? I didn't think so. 2v2 vs AI definitely isn't. They had 1v1s in the last patch notes but then removed it as a mistake because it wasn't done, did they stealth patch it in and I didn't notice? 
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May 17, 2016 17:22
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Zaphod42 posted:Maybe 1v1s are in now? I didn't think so. 2v2 vs AI definitely isn't. They had 1v1s in the last patch notes but then removed it as a mistake because it wasn't done, did they stealth patch it in and I didn't notice? Maybe its not feature complete? You can't just build your own max level fleet at this point, so that could be what they are talking about.
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May 17, 2016 17:27
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Gay Hitler posted:This triggers me. If you remove progression, multiplayer will die. This will also make ship loss useless, further reducing the novel features of this game. So do you stop playing a fun game once you reach max level?
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May 17, 2016 17:29
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I'm trying to get a good fleet to go with my Emperor. Battleship + 2 Battlecruisers seems really light and I seem to get outshot a lot, so I'm thinking of just building some super-tanky cruisers. What's the opinions on Gothics vs Lunars?
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May 17, 2016 19:02
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professor_curly posted:I'm trying to get a good fleet to go with my Emperor. Battleship + 2 Battlecruisers seems really light and I seem to get outshot a lot, so I'm thinking of just building some super-tanky cruisers. I'm not a Lunar fan because upgrades are less efficient since each will only apply to half your broadside. I tried a Gothic for a while and was just really unimpressed with its damage output. I've had great luck with 1 Dominator and 2 Tyrants though. The extra range on the plasma macro is nice against people trying to kite you and the damage tradeoff is fairly small. The Dominator gets you a nova cannon and can slug it out up close pretty well.
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May 17, 2016 19:20
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professor_curly posted:I'm trying to get a good fleet to go with my Emperor. Battleship + 2 Battlecruisers seems really light and I seem to get outshot a lot, so I'm thinking of just building some super-tanky cruisers. Neither is particularly great. Gothic suffers from having relatively short-ranged lances combined with them just not being all that powerful. Lunar suffers from being a heavily mixed weapon ship in a game where you only have a limited amount of upgrades and they only apply to one weapon type. Overall, if you pick one, go with a Gothic. Gothic is mediocre but serviceable alongside other ships, as lances are still reliable damage and critseekers at (once you get the range upgrade) standoff distances, and I don't mind one of my slots being taken up by it rather than just filling them with three Dominators. Lunar is just bad, and nothing it does isn't done better by other ships. Larger ships can get away with mixed weapons, but the Lunar just doesn't carry enough of either, combined with their shortish range, to be worthwhile.
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May 17, 2016 19:24
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professor_curly posted:I'm trying to get a good fleet to go with my Emperor. Battleship + 2 Battlecruisers seems really light and I seem to get outshot a lot, so I'm thinking of just building some super-tanky cruisers. The Gothic and lunar are good for long term attrition strategies, keeping at about a 6K distance so that enemy retaliation misses a lot, or for grinding down a hull while taking apart shields using hit and runs from dauntlesses but they lack the DPS required to actually outshoot anything. A heavy cannon Kruzer, the Slaughter or the Tyrants or Dominators will completely destroy either the Gothic or Lunar from close range. I'd even put my money on the trash ship Carnage over a Gothic. Gothics in particular are a crit fishing ship, you take bonuses to lock on to try and get some critical hits against important systems while dealing some OK damage. This strategy is a long term one, it takes a long time to get those crits and if you are forced to fight point blank during that time, you'll lose as a few crits don't matter if you take too much damage too quickly. If you're getting outgunned, you need to try out a strategy with dominators. The Tyrant is something a lot of people vouch for due to the power of the Imperial torpedoes but the broadside on the dominator is superior, and there's more effective counters against the Tyrant's torpedo spread compared to taking the novas, then blitzing in with the side guns.
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May 17, 2016 20:14
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I guess I can summarize my question like this: Emperor + x2 Tyrants + Gothic vs Retribution + 2 Tyrants + Lunar I'm trying the Retribution version right now, with Mars Battlecruisers if I run up against Eldar.
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May 17, 2016 20:53
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professor_curly posted:I guess I can summarize my question like this: Depends on playstyle. The first one, you use the Tyrants as a distraction while you fish for crits and then try to pound away at 12K or maybe 6K distance with torpedoes but it will get outgunned by just about anything on the market. The second one kind of assumes that your opponent will never close within 3K distance while you circle around them with your broadsides at about 6K but it again will get outgunned by virtually any composition, though the Retribution helps a little, this composition has far less to cause those criticals. Again, I'd rely on my torpedoes with this fleet and simply try to keep all my guns facing one ship but unlike before this one doesn't have the ability to disable engines and scoot. If you're complaining that you're getting outgunned, I assume you're trying to go broadside to broadside. Both fleets will lose against an equally skilled admiral who is willing to match this fleet broadside to broadside, the close range DPS isn't great in either case. Dominators or Overlords are pretty much the go to ships for broadside to broadside fighting, or the retribution sort of.
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May 17, 2016 21:25
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So is multiplayer down for everyone or just me?
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May 18, 2016 09:38
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Yukitsu posted:
The one bonus to lock-on (duration) you can actually take as IN  Or do you count second battle bridge to avoid losing orders on Deck criticals?
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May 18, 2016 10:09
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Can any IN fleet really justify not taking as many Nova Cannons as possible, though, especially with the Emperor's massive sensor range+skill boost? 3+ NCs from will knock down any shield and start biting into hull, plus they can hit multiple targets. Cooldown is decent especially with max ranked servitors. Add a bombing run from the Emperor (or fighter cover if needed), plus MWJ on everything, and you can have an enemy battle/cruiser seriously damaged before taking any hits. Unless 3 Dominators breaks the 700 pt limit as I don't have the game in front of me, in which case maybe go Mars + 3 Dominators for 4 NCs?
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May 18, 2016 13:28
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 12:45 |
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Man, had an awesome Ork session this night: - I'm trying out my Cruisers w/4x Launch Bays (the 'Shipbarfas') and going ALL CRITS, ALL THE TIME. Assault boats, boarding torpedoes, shokk attack - they've got zero close range potential but because people don't expect that of orks a surprising number of them sit back and let me shell them for a while. I fought this one Imperial player to a standstill where he had two battlecruisers with zero weapons of any kind. - I set two savage gunships to autoattack, stuck 'em on the right side of the map as bait, and then forgot about them. It worked; they drew over a battlecruiser Overlord. There was an incredibly intense fight between my main line ships and his - and when I checked back on the gunships the fuckers had somehow got the Overlord down to 40hp. Plucky little guys! - I love fighting Imperials who are trying to torpedo spam. I'm better at it than they are because they're only dropping easily repaired damage where every torpedo impact I make is a critical hit that's a step closer to totally shutting down an entire ship. - My 700 points lists are: Battleship w/3x Zapps, 2x Battlecruisers w/2x Heavy Cannons 5x Savage Gunships (wins against most things) 3x Cruisers w/4x launch bays, 5x savage gunships (not guaranteed wins but guaranteed hilarity) 4x Light Cruisers w/heavy cannons and nova cannons, 8x savage gunships (I usually pack this against orks because it cleans up savage gunship heavy fleets but it's been doing less and less well recently, I'm considering redoing this list)
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May 18, 2016 14:15
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