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this_is_hard posted:I think if anyone directly kills Tommen in the books it will be Aegon Right, hence why I used the word parallel. Because Dany will have something close to Aegon's storyline.
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May 16, 2016 16:45
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GaussianCopula posted:I'd think the rational decision in that situation would be to take your swords and kill the pale woman that just set all your most revered leaders and your most important temple on fire. Uh...or, these are a primitive nomadic people who are extremely superstitious, and who have just been confronted by someone who sure looks like, acts like, and seems like she has the power of, a goddess. She's also known to have three dragons that she hatched and raised herself. So of course they're going to bow down. I'm amazed that this is the sticking point for some of you.  e: a few pages back, but still, Jesus dude. Majorian fucked around with this message at 16:52 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 16:47
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A Strange Aeon posted:Anyone have a transcript of the show letter? The book letter is easy enough to find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXhT7rYbIcg quote:To the traitor and bastard Jon Snow. You have let thousands of wildlings past the wall. You have betrayed your own kind, you have betrayed the North. Winterfell is mine. Come and see.
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May 16, 2016 16:53
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Majorian posted:Uh...or, these are a primitive nomadic people who are extremely superstitious, and who have just been confronted by someone who sure looks, acts, and seems like she has the power of, a goddess. She's also known to have three dragons that she hatched and raised herself. So of course they're going to bow down. I'm amazed that this is the sticking point for some of you. I disagree. They are a an extremely patriarcal and traditional society who seems to really hate witches and magic. IMHO their most normal reaction to a strange woman with strange hair (one that is also know for having killed a great khal togheter with a witch) burning down their temple and killing all their leaders in the process with unnatural powers would be to either flee on try to kill her EDIT: vvvvvvvvv I doubt it. Next episode I bet she will be marching with the whole dothraki nation behind her EIDT 2: She will also free all the ex-khaleesis and banish slavery and rape among the dothraki Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 16:55
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Yeah plus we got just one reaction shot of the crowd immediately around Dany as she walked out of the building, there's nothing suggesting that every Dothraki is on board with worshipping her. There's a very high likelihood that there will be a lot of dissent and infighting in the wake of every standing khal being killed at once in the next episodes
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May 16, 2016 16:55
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stinkles1112 posted:Yeah plus we got just one reaction shot of the crowd immediately around Dany as she walked out of the building, there's nothing suggesting that every Dothraki is on board with worshipping her. There's a very high likelihood that there will be a lot of dissent and infighting in the wake of every standing khal being killed at once in the next episodes I highly doubt it, given that D&D said that she "became their Queen in one fell swoop" and that the scene was meant to mirror her emerging from the funeral pyre in season 1 just on larger scope. Elias_Maluco posted:I disagree. Yep. These people have at least some tangential knowledge of magic and sorcery (remember that they have regular contact with Qarth) and have shown a very strong hatred of it.
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May 16, 2016 17:00
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this_is_hard posted:also I dunno that seems incredibly cut and dry. Most people have probably forgotten but enough people know that Ned returned to Winterfell with a mystery baby named Jon Snow immediately after he left the Tower of Joy (technically after dropping Dawn off in Dorne but that's where he supposedly picked Jon), so even if the average viewer won't have figured it out, there are enough puzzle pieces now to make it obvious. Just wondering "where is this other baby" is going to narrow things down pretty quickly.
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May 16, 2016 17:07
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the next Tower of Joy scene STILL doesn't officially confirm R+L=J.
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canepazzo posted:Does making GBS threads brown water spread faster or slower than the burning oil in the Khalasar? I love AFFC and ADWD but lmao at remembering after all that time Dany's plot leaves her graphically making GBS threads herself to death in the wilderness. Was it a visual metaphor for the show? (j/k this episode was alright)
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May 16, 2016 17:07
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Ginette Reno posted:Rhaegar leaving his top Kingsguard to protect Lyanna seems a bit silly in retrospect given he got curb stomped by Robert. Maybe if he'd had his Kingsguard with him Robert would have lost. They fought a 1vs1 duel as champions of their respective armies before the battle lines clashed, I doubt the kingsguard would\could\should have intervened in that situation, Rhaegar was cocky and underestimated Robert's prowess and got his chest caved in for his stupidity.
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May 16, 2016 17:08
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Elias_Maluco posted:I disagree. Who cares? This is more than a witch or a magic-user. This is a goddess. It's one thing if it's an old woman who can maybe use magic, but it doesn't work and so she's easy to kill, and someone who is able to nuke all of the khals at once and survive the fire. I don't care how patriarchal a society it is; if a goddess appears before you in person and demonstrates her power, you're going to bend the knee. I do agree with stinkles1112 that there will be doubters that will try to fight her in the near future, though. We'll see how that goes. For now, though, it would have been a pretty spectacular sight for the Dothraki folks, so I'm not seeing why it's odd that so many of them would be kneeling.
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May 16, 2016 17:09
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It's obvious Jorah and Daario did *something* to help Dany prepare for the Khal confrontation. I mean, they said as much in the previous scene, whether it was spreading oil around or some other Medieval Fantasy Combustible, it doesn't matter. It was one of the few times they showed and didn't tell (although they did tell, kind of). The only confusing moment about that scene is when they cut to a couple Dosh Khaleen being hella dead outside the temple, and I thought Jorah and Daario totally murdered Dany's friend Dosh Khaleen, but I guess they were just Dosh Khaleen redshirts? So she's cool with those vicitmized women being killed, but not the one she spent 12 seconds talking to, lol.
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May 16, 2016 17:12
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Mike N Eich posted:It's obvious Jorah and Daario did *something* to help Dany prepare for the Khal confrontation. I mean, they said as much in the previous scene, whether it was spreading oil around or some other Medieval Fantasy Combustible, it doesn't matter. It was one of the few times they showed and didn't tell (although they did tell, kind of).  quote:The only confusing moment about that scene is when they cut to a couple Dosh Khaleen being hella dead outside the temple, and I thought Jorah and Daario totally murdered Dany's friend Dosh Khaleen, but I guess they were just Dosh Khaleen redshirts? I thought those were just male guards with, you know. Long hair.
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May 16, 2016 17:14
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Mike N Eich posted:It's obvious Jorah and Daario did *something* to help Dany prepare for the Khal confrontation. I mean, they said as much in the previous scene, whether it was spreading oil around or some other Medieval Fantasy Combustible, it doesn't matter. It was one of the few times they showed and didn't tell (although they did tell, kind of). They barred the doors from the outside, otherwise the Khals would have just ran outside and waited for Dany.
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May 16, 2016 17:15
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Majorian posted:Who cares? This is more than a witch or a magic-user. This is a goddess. It's one thing if it's an old woman who can maybe use magic, but it doesn't work and so she's easy to kill, and someone who is able to nuke all of the khals at once and survive the fire. I don't care how patriarchal a society it is; if a goddess appears before you in person and demonstrates her power, you're going to bend the knee They knew about her dragons and that didnt seems to impress then one bit. They were a lot more focused on the fact that she was responsible for Khal Drogo's death by associating with a witch and then disrespected their tradition by not going where she was supposed to. And then she kills all their khals and burns down a sacred place in a way that it sures looks like witchcraft. And their reaction is to think she is a goddess and must be worshiped? It doenst makes sense to me, but whatever Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 17:33 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 17:21
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emanresu tnuocca posted:They barred the doors from the outside, otherwise the Khals would have just ran outside and waited for Dany. Oh, I got *that* it was more who they killed. Dany scolds them for nearly killing her buddy, and then they go and kill 2 Khal widows anyway
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May 16, 2016 17:26
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lol goons why do you hate women and love complaining about my favourite TV show? this show is piss now and i enjoy talking poo poo about it way more than watching it mods now that the show has overtaken the books just make this a GoT mock thread so the goons who still enjoy the show can post in the other thread and those of us with taste can laugh at the terrible writing and sansas acting here thanks hottubrhymemachine fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 17:26
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"Jon if you don't help me take back Winterfell I'll do it myself." How Sansa? You, Brienne and Pod? Moronic. Sansa should want to get far away from Raperfell not go back and get hug-stabbed by invincible Ramsey.
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May 16, 2016 17:31
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stinkles1112 posted:Yeah plus we got just one reaction shot of the crowd immediately around Dany as she walked out of the building, there's nothing suggesting that every Dothraki is on board with worshipping her. There's a very high likelihood that there will be a lot of dissent and infighting in the wake of every standing khal being killed at once in the next episodes This is what would actually happen if the writers still cared at all about their own setting's internal consistency. They spent a whole slap year establishing the Dothraki as self-usurping, patriarchal warlords where the death of a khal immediately ends in the splintering of his khalasar, and that their culture, such as it is, is staid and implacable. But I guarantee you there will be no rival khals; Daenerys is just the leader of this socially-unsustainable monolithic horde because that's easier. That's the key word, when criticizing Season 6. Whoever's in charge of the scripts have gotten lazy, and so they go for the easy solution every time. I'm amazed that there's still so much pushback against the idea that the GOT writers have gotten lazy. If you're undecided, try out this quiz. Try to make each answer equally satisfying for full credit. 1. When Jaime Lannister murdered Aerys II, why did he not become the king? What far-reaching effects did this action have on his family, his country, his organization, and his person? 2. Why did Stannis resort to secret, clandestine magic to murder his brother, Renly? Why not simply kill him at their parlay? Why does Stannis take great pains to distance himself from the actual fratriregicide? 3. When Roose Bolton stabs Robb, what allows him to usurp the Lordship of Winterfell? What certain securities and loyalties were established allowing him to move forward with this treasonous act with confidence? Why is he only bestowed with northern Wardenship, and not the royal title held by his murdered liege? 4. Why is Theon Greyjoy's murder of Ser Rodrik Cassel and apparent murder of Bran and Rickon Stark not enough to secure his holding of Winterfell? Did the peasants just not understand how much of a hardass he was, and thus was to be respected? 5. What is Ellaria Sand's relationship to the House of Martell? Why is she now sovereign of Dorne? What mechanisms present in the show (or rather, absent from it) allowed this to occur? 6. Why is Ramsay Bolton now the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North? What purpose does the lie about his poisoned father serve? How does this align with the less-than subtle fatalities inflicted upon Walda Frey and her unnamed infant son? 7. Why is Tyrion not King on the Iron Throne? Is it because his father had the requisite authority to try and judge him? Following the murder of Tywin, why is Tyrion not now King, Lord of Casterly Rock, and his own judge and father? At a certain point, the writers on this show stopped caring about things like "internal consistency", "plot foundation", and "functional settings" because they watched the Chronicles of Riddick and thought "yeah, that poo poo seems easier; let's do that" tin can made man fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 17:32
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I don't think the writers got lazy, they just ran out of book material which GRRM meticulously cultivates, and they realized they had to ramp up the speed of event and squish things together. Don't really have time to go through the intricacies of Dorne politics, though it seems they'll make something of an attempt with the Iron Islands. Though the Iron Islands will just be dudes shouting at each other "a WOMAN can't sit on the Seastone Chair!!" "that man has no PECKER" back and forth for like 4 minutes
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May 16, 2016 17:42
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Im also curious about how Jon is going to ask for support from the northern houses - hey arent you supoosed to be Lord Commander of the NW? - yeah, but I quit - wait a minute, you cant quit from the NW - well the thing is, Ive died and then got revived by Mel here, who is a red priest. So now Im free from my vows - oh ok then
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May 16, 2016 17:42
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What I don't get is why Ramsay and everyone else still makes a big deal out of the "Warden of the North" title and treats it as if it were hereditary, which it is not. It's a royal appointment and as both the Starks and the Boltons are still in rebellion to the throne, it has no meaning at all. But I guess that is a concept to complicated for the audience.
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May 16, 2016 17:45
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this_is_hard posted:4) Tommen dies by jumping out of a window. Actually I can sort of buy this one. Based on the prophecy it seems very likely that Tommen will die and thematically his death will be related to Cersei's inept machinations backfiring. Originally I thought Cersei would attack the Sparrows and in return one of them would assassinate Tommen. Now I'm guessing the thing Tommen wanted to talk to Cersei about this episode was that the High Sparrow spilled the beans to Tommen about all the horrible poo poo his mother has done and how Cersei is responsible for Margaery getting tortured in a cell. At some point Margaery is going to die in the scuffle with the sparrows, Tommen will overhear Cersei gloating and he'll kill himself because he legitimately cared about Margaery.
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May 16, 2016 17:48
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Mike N Eich posted:I don't think the writers got lazy, they just ran out of book material which GRRM meticulously cultivates, and they realized they had to ramp up the speed of event and squish things together. Don't really have time to go through the intricacies of Dorne politics, though it seems they'll make something of an attempt with the Iron Islands. hahahaha I completely forgot that the show is, itself, internally dissonant because we have two back-to-back examples of "Murder the ruler, become that ruler without problem" but then Euron literally murders his brother and there has to be a Choosing. Like, somehow the rape vikings have a more sophisticated set of civics than the North and Dorne Elias_Maluco posted:Im also curious about how Jon is going to ask for support from the northern houses Like all of 12 dudes even saw Jon Snow's dead body, he just was in a room for awhile and everyone said "oh he's dead" then he walks out of the room and Woah! He's Not Dead Now! like, if there was a youtube video of obama being killed and resurrected by the pope, I still wouldn't believe it's legit so I have no idea how Jon's gonna sell this
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May 16, 2016 17:50
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Elias_Maluco posted:They knew about her dragons and that didnt seems to impress then one bit. They had heard about her dragons. The only people who actually saw it happen were a ragtag group of her remaining followers who are now mostly (if not all?) dead. That's an easy thing to dismiss as tall tales. It's quite another thing to see it play out right in front of your eyes. From their perspective, this wasn't just some lucky widow who managed to hatch some dragon eggs. This is someone who just torched all the khals and emerged completely unscathed. Is it really so hard to see why that would take things up a level for most of the Dothraki? Majorian fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 17:50
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It's not Jon who is gonna conduct the diplomacy but Sansa, because we need to continue the trend of female empowerment this season has established. Jon will accompany her and continue to be a little emo douchebag.
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May 16, 2016 17:54
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GaussianCopula posted:It's not Jon who is gonna conduct the diplomacy but Sansa, because we need to continue the trend of female empowerment this season has established. Why does that bother you so much?
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May 16, 2016 17:55
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Majorian posted:Is it really so hard to see why that would take things up a level for most of the Dothraki? Yeah, it would take it from "maybe she is a witch too" to "wow she is definetly a very dangerous witch, we must kill her right now"
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May 16, 2016 17:58
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It's pretty impressive what D&D have accomplished with this season, by introducing at least one completely ridiculous plot contrivance in each episode to sweep over the last one. Like, we still have no idea why Davos gives so much of a poo poo about Jon Snow, Guy He Met Twice for About 10 Cumulative Minutes, that he would beseech Melisandre, Woman He Has Hated and Mistrusted for Years, to do magic he doesn't even know exists yet. In a few weeks The White Witch Daenerys won't be an issue anymore and we'll be wondering how Sandor warged into Gregor to win the cleganebowl or whatever the gently caress is gonna happen
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May 16, 2016 17:58
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Everyone already hates the Bolton's enough that they'll likely be willing to look the other way regarding the oathbreaking. Not to mention, it's a tangled web because Ramsay declaring war on the Nights Watch breaks a rule, and he's been part of at least two betrayals of leaders of the North so it's not like his whole standing is legitimate except that he holds the last surviving Stark boy captive
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May 16, 2016 17:59
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Elias_Maluco posted:Yeah, it would take it from "maybe she is a witch too" to "wow she is definetly a very dangerous witch, we must kill her right now" No, it would take it to, "Oh poo poo, she just killed all of our best fighters at once and emerged unscathed. Better kneel before she does the exact same thing to us." Because that's what sane people would do.
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May 16, 2016 18:02
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tin can made man posted:why Davos gives so much of a poo poo about Jon Snow, Guy He Met Twice for About 10 Cumulative Minutes, that he would beseech Melisandre, Woman He Has Hated and Mistrusted for Years, to do magic he doesn't even know exists yet. Realistically, Davos would've gone home the moment Stannis died. But we know that Jon is a good guy who shouldn't be murdered and is important, so Davos should know it too. My first Dungeons and Dragons session I learned about OOC and how just because you know something doesn't mean your characters do. You'd think someone who's nickname is D&D would know this.
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May 16, 2016 18:05
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Majorian posted:No, it would take it to, "Oh poo poo, she just killed all of our best fighters at once and emerged unscathed. Better kneel before she does the exact same thing to us." Because that's what sane people would do. Well, she can't exactly flip a brazier on the entire horde right then. There's nothing stopping one of the generic Khal's bloodriders from running up and chokeholding her and declaring himself The New Khal. So the theory you're putting forward is that the Dothraki literaly believe she can spew or control fire, when we know she can't? Which means that the narrative has taken the form of "White Imperialist subdues the barbarian hordes into worshipping her through religious chicanery" which is extremely loving lol in terms of where this show is going MrSlam posted:Realistically, Davos would've gone home the moment Stannis died. But we know that Jon is a good guy who shouldn't be murdered and is important, so Davos should know it too. Yeah, that entire plot is Davos metagaming the gently caress out while his GM's npc keeps yelling through the door to Hey, Leave that Body Alone it's Totally Not Important while Davos smugly shakes his head and flips through the rulebook looking for resurrection spells tin can made man fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:06
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The Khals also rule by right of being the strongest/bestest fighters; if twelve of them all died at once to one girl it had to be providence right? It isn't like religious tradition doesn't have legends of "Corrupt priests are smitten down by the divine to restore the rightful ways"; Daenarys makes a point of mocking them for their stagnation; there were no great conquerors in that room; just a bunch of lazy complacents who were content to raid the city folk every so often for wives. There's an argument to be made for Daenarys pulling a Book-Euron by offering them a whole continent to conquer, to bring them glory they hadn't known for centuries.
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May 16, 2016 18:07
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Majorian posted:No, it would take it to, "Oh poo poo, she just killed all of our best fighters at once and emerged unscathed. Better kneel before she does the exact same thing to us." Because that's what sane people would do. They are dothraki, a fearless and violent and magic-hating people. Perhaps if she killed then all in fight they would be impressed. But she killed then with what appears to be magic and treachery. The sane thing for then would be to just jump at her and kill her without hesitation, and then fight among themselves for the position of the killed khals GaussianCopula posted:It's not Jon who is gonna conduct the diplomacy but Sansa, because we need to continue the trend of female empowerment this season has established. Jon will accompany her and continue to be a little emo douchebag. Sure, but since he is commanding the army, at one point people would have to ask about how the gently caress he is no longer in the NW Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 18:10 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Khals also rule by right of being the strongest/bestest fighters; if twelve of them all died at once to one girl it had to be providence right? It isn't like religious tradition doesn't have legends of "Corrupt priests are smitten down by the divine to restore the rightful ways"; Daenarys makes a point of mocking them for their stagnation; there were no great conquerors in that room; just a bunch of lazy complacents who were content to raid the city folk every so often for wives. yea but they are also scared of crossing the sea so but maybe Dany will just burn their fears away
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May 16, 2016 18:08
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tin can made man posted:Well, she can't exactly flip a brazier on the entire horde right then. They don't know she killed the khals by flipping a brazier. As far as they know, she breathed firer, conjured a massive fire spell, melted them with laser vision, whatever. What they saw was the big hut exploding in fire, killing all the khals, and the woman who's been said to have hatched and raised dragons, and conquer multiple cities, emerge without a scratch. Elias_Maluco posted:They are dothraki, a fearless and violent and magic-hating people. Perhaps if she killed then all in fight they would be impressed. But she killed then with what appears to be magic and treachery. The sane thing for then would be to just jump at her and kill her without hesitation The Dothraki are fickle and superstitious. They didn't see that Dany didn't kill them in a fight. As far as they know, she did.
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May 16, 2016 18:09
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Holy poo poo! What was in those braziers? I know tipping over a kerosene lamp is a fire hazard but geez, I'd be surprised if this isn't the fourth giant tent the Khals have burned down!
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May 16, 2016 18:09
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Majorian posted:They don't know she killed the khals by flipping a brazier. As far as they know, she breathed firer, conjured a massive fire spell, melted them with laser vision, whatever. What they saw was the big hut exploding in fire, killing all the khals, and the woman who's been said to have hatched and raised dragons, and conquer multiple cities, emerge without a scratch. tin can made man posted:Well, she can't exactly flip a brazier on the entire horde right then. There's nothing stopping one of the generic Khal's bloodriders from running up and chokeholding her and declaring himself The New Khal. So the theory you're putting forward is that the Dothraki literaly believe she can spew or control fire, when we know she can't? Which means that the narrative has taken the form of "White Imperialist subdues the barbarian hordes into worshipping her through religious chicanery" which is extremely loving lol in terms of where this show is going
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May 16, 2016 18:10
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Right, because I can't think of any fantasy author who would ever build such a narrative. e: I'm not saying it's not problematic, because it is, but come on. It's not like the showrunners drew first blood on the "white person becomes primitive indigenous people's messiah because of magic" trope in this series. Majorian fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:11
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I'm not sure what you mean, though I'm pretty sure this never happened in ASOIAFquote:Eclipse Comes Just In Time To Save John Kerry From Tribe Of Island Cannibals Like, do you not get that "ooga booga, i use my White Person magic, now I king" is a really vile and backwards character beat to hit, rooted as it is in our own world's history. In Dany's other forays into kowtowing brown people with magic, there was actual magic involved. Now it's literal trickery on the stupid Superstitious Hordes
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May 16, 2016 18:15
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