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CornHolio posted:You know what guys Every new Chrysler product I've been in (really only rentals) have been nicely appointed and kind of nice inside. I hated the transmissions in everyone. The jeep Cherokee was overheating and disabling power steering when I was drifting it on dirt roads. I just don't trust them at all. If they turn out to hold up well 5 years from now, then maybe I'd consider one used. I knew a guy working to help Chrysler trouble shoot their ZF transmissions. He was saying Chrysler was having trouble holding internal tolerances in the trans and that their programming of the trans was awful. And I certainly felt the awful programming in the rentals.
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May 16, 2016 16:12
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Saukkis posted:Hey, at least Saab was way ahead of the competion in realizing how much the keychain dangling on your knee sucks. It's a horrible road hazard when you're speeding on the highways while trying to somehow wrap the keychain around the key. Thousands must die daily because of that! When they did that their data showed a lot of knee injuries from keys on the column in accidents. Mind you this is the company that blew tons of money (some of it EU money, I believe) making a prototype with no steering wheel because a lot of I juries came from that too. Similarly they adopted side curtain airbags super late because they preferred to develop columns that were extremely rigid up top and softer at the bottom, to direct impact forces into the floorpan. This one actually worked very well.
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May 16, 2016 16:42
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CornHolio posted:You know what guys I've had my 200 for 3 months now. After the first day getting used to the knob I prefer it over other solutions except maybe a column shifter. Turn it all the way left for P, 3 clicks right for D, 2 clicks left for R. I do it without looking now, it's a much lower effort movement than loving with a lever and I don't have to lift my arm very much. Car reviewers don't like it because they only drive the car for 1 or 2 days and never get to become familiar with anything, it's the same story for all their hate for infotainment and whatnot. The transmission itself I found responsive and quick to downshift when pushed. However getting up to speed from a stop does involve a rather large amount of shifting which is vaguely unpleasant. There's sort of a sweet spot in the throttle that gets it through all the gears smoothly but often you don't hit it and you feel the shifts. If anything I find that it tends to hold gears for a little bit too long and you end up revving the engine more than you want when you're just trying to putter along. I have owned all Chrysler FWD transaxles from the A604 to the 62TE and honestly the A604 was the smoothest out of the 3 for daily driving. The 9 speed obviously has an advantage in terms of acceleration and FE though. This is with the V6, I haven't driven the 4 cyl. On balance I think it's fine for regular driving, and actually gets better if you really cane it - at low speeds the shifts become more noticeable and there are lots of them, almost as annoying as the wet clutch DSGs that I've had, but the Mazda6 for example is definitely way better and so is the Camry. As for reliability I think people might be confusing it with the Cherokee which came out with that transmission quite a bit earlier and did have some software problems. By the time the 200 came out they had already revised it and I don't even recall any of the magazine reviews having any complaints about it. Best I could find on the forums was that some early build units had a manufacturing defect (they put in a part wrong at the factory) but this only affected a small number of cars and the problem manifested itself very quickly. This is probably what Sadi is talking about. The layout of the back of the car is somewhat unusual. It's *not* actually a size between midsize and compact, the 200 is actually the longest car in the midsize segment, and actually closer to the Avalon than the Camry. For example it shares the same wheelbase as the Subaru Legacy but is like 4 inches longer. The problem is that in order to achieve the coupe like profile, rear head and legroom is quite compromised, and rear visibility is almost non-existant. OTOH since the car is so long, the trunk is actually very big. The new Sonata is somewhat similar in layout and its trunk is *enormous*. The New Sonata also has much better rear head and legroom because it's a more bulbous car in the back, but Hyundai's styling does make it work. On balance I don't like it, and I would prefer the more traditional sedan roofline of the Camry or Passat, but then it's no worse than, say, the Mazda6. Oddly enough reviewers seem to take much less issue with this in their reviews of the Mazda. If storage capacity was high priority you should probably go straight to a wagon or truck anyway. Here's a fairly detailed review of it by Alex Dykes that pretty much agree with my experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plICH8XetY4 Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 16:50
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My biggest complaints with the trans as it was useless for engine braking. You put it in manual mode and it would only allow you to be between something like 1500-3300rpm. So more or less like it would drive if it were doing the shifting its self. Made for hot brakes in the mountains. It did seem to hunt gears a little too, but that didn't bother me.
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May 16, 2016 17:37
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I found the 200's transmission programming to be aggravating at low speeds. It would hunt between probably 2nd and 3rd while crawling around a parking lot.
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May 16, 2016 19:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I actually don't hate the car that much, it's just not better than its competitors. The bar is pretty high at this point. That's an understatement. When "non car" publications have to stretch so hard to fill out a "10 worst cars" list that they put the Wrangler on it because it drives like a body-on-frame live-axle offroad toy, that really says something about the state of the industry. There's no Maserati Biturbo valvetrain style engineering going on anywhere. There's hardly a single car on the market that will need anything more than oil changes for at least 60k, if not 100k. Most people just want their car to be dead reliable, easy to drive, and not beat them up too much to do so.
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May 16, 2016 19:14
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IOwnCalculus posted:That's an understatement. When "non car" publications have to stretch so hard to fill out a "10 worst cars" list that they put the Wrangler on it because it drives like a body-on-frame live-axle offroad toy, that really says something about the state of the industry. There's no Maserati Biturbo valvetrain style engineering going on anywhere. There's hardly a single car on the market that will need anything more than oil changes for at least 60k, if not 100k. Most people just want their car to be dead reliable, easy to drive, and not beat them up too much to do so. That's what i've been saying, Apart from the mitsubishi mirage, there really are no "bad" cars out there. The aveo was loving terrible, the spark and sonic are pretty decent, and come with attractive engine options. The 2016 sonata is so much better than the 2008 sonata, it's hard to believe they're made by the same company.
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May 16, 2016 19:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I found the 200's transmission programming to be aggravating at low speeds. It would hunt between probably 2nd and 3rd while crawling around a parking lot. The few times I've rented it I found the only way to make it not a miserable experience was to leave the trans in 'sport mode' which limits it to a 6 speed.
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May 16, 2016 19:38
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Powershift posted:That's what i've been saying, Apart from the mitsubishi mirage, there really are no "bad" cars out there. It is staggering how much the Koreans have improved in a short period of time. They're eating FCA's small/mid-size lunch. It's part of the reason I'm so interested in seeing what Genesis/the new RWD are like.
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May 16, 2016 20:05
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El Scotch posted:It is staggering how much the Koreans have improved in a short period of time. They're eating FCA's small/mid-size lunch. Well the current Genesis is surprisingly good, all they need now is a performance variant and it looks like they have a strong team put together for it.
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May 16, 2016 21:57
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CornHolio posted:You know what guys It's not the car itself http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/03/clarkson-burgess-the-wobble-and-the-chrysler-200/ Chrysler is the fat kid on the automotive playground; a safe target.
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May 16, 2016 22:04
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Hyundai/Genesis just poached another Bentley designer, too. They have Bentley people designing it and the former M boss heading the new performance unit. Certainly have the people talent to accomplish things.
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May 16, 2016 22:05
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Wheeee posted:It's not the car itself Ten Best Automobiles Today Shouldn’t Be a Popularity Contest
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May 16, 2016 22:13
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Test drove a 1.8T Golf Sportwagen today, interior's ok, size/space is just right, clutch feel and gearshift are decent, very tall first gear for some reason (or maybe I'm just used to short geared sports cars) but the 1.8t engine makes a horrific clattering sound in the lower revs that momentarily made me wonder if it was a diesel.
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May 17, 2016 05:14
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Wheeee posted:It's not the car itself He's not wrong about the "wobble" (ESPECIALLY Clarkson and his ilk) but man do I not want to know enough inside baseball bullshit to know whether he's full of poo poo about Detroit News' intentions.
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May 17, 2016 06:41
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I've had a rental 200 for the last two weeks. Its actually not that bad, even with the 4 cylinder and being a rental spec car. The dial-a-gear is kinda annoying since I've reached for it instead of the volume or A/C knobs, but its so different in size that I realized I had my hand on the wrong knob. I'd consider this a worthwhile tradeoff given just how much storage you get in exchange for not having a standard auto gear selector there. Its all pretty well thought out and easy to use. And my driving seems to really be in the sweet spot for getting it to shift right, because 90% of the time I can't feel poo poo from the gearbox. The only time it really annoys me is when it downshifts 2 gears at a time on a relatively hard stop.
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May 17, 2016 06:52
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fyodor posted:He's not wrong about the "wobble" (ESPECIALLY Clarkson and his ilk) but man do I not want to know enough inside baseball bullshit to know whether he's full of poo poo about Detroit News' intentions. For better or for worse Baruth writes with an affectation, so his articles always have pointless fluff and trolling, but he still writes better and with a stronger understanding of the industry than most automotive writers.
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May 17, 2016 07:19
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Wheeee posted:It's not the car itself That's a pretty good bit of writing, there. And as I read it, I see he's pretty much spot on.
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May 17, 2016 13:49
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The knob is a lousy tradeoff because they could have taken it off the center console entirely, which would have actually freed up usable space. As is, it's not any more space efficient than the old ZF 8-speed deathshifter.
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May 17, 2016 16:20
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Speaking of ZF-8s and Chrysler, am I the only one excited about the new Alfa Romeo Giulia? I've been watching review videos of it and it looks brilliant. It definitely looks different compared to the usual bland crop of M3s. Unfortunately Jalopnik has already come out with comments that most of the press models came out with serious quality issues. Typical Alfa. Here I was hoping I'd be able to get a reliable and good performing Alfa in a few years.
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May 17, 2016 16:29
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Kraftwerk posted:Here I was hoping I'd be able to get a reliable and good performing Alfa in a few years. Hahahahahahahahaha Reliable Alfa.  Alfas are the insanely hot college girlfriends of the auto world. Sure they are loving gorgeous and they will gargle your balls while jerking you off on their faces but as soon as you aren't looking they are going through the pictures on your phone and throwing all your stuff into the street and then lighting it on fire.
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May 17, 2016 17:16
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Huge_Midget posted:Alfas are the insanely hot college girlfriends of the auto world. Sure they are loving gorgeous and they will gargle your balls while jerking you off on their faces but as soon as you aren't looking they are going through the pictures on your phone and throwing all your stuff into the street and then lighting it on fire. This is the greatest summary of Alfa Romeo I have ever heard.
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May 17, 2016 17:21
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El Scotch posted:Hyundai/Genesis just poached another Bentley designer, too. They have Bentley people designing it and the former M boss heading the new performance unit. They guy they got, Sanghyup Lee, was the main guy behind the new Camaro, as well as working on the Stingray and Cadillac Sixteen concepts.
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May 17, 2016 17:21
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Wheeee posted:For better or for worse Baruth writes with an affectation, so his articles always have pointless fluff and trolling, but he still writes better and with a stronger understanding of the industry than most automotive writers. Baruth and Peter DeLorenzo are pretty much the only auto writers I bother to read outside of design editorials, executive guest pieces, and other actual industry stuff
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May 17, 2016 17:27
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I don't like the new Alfa because it's a plaything that FCA is using while completely dicking around with Chrysler and Jeep.
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May 17, 2016 18:08
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Further on the Korean thing I'm a terrible judge of such things, but from the below picture how large would you say it is vis a vis other cars? 
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May 17, 2016 18:27
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El Scotch posted:Further on the Korean thing Like modern 7-series big.
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May 17, 2016 18:30
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El Scotch posted:Further on the Korean thing figure its around A7/Panamera sized
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May 17, 2016 18:31
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I was guessing that size, too. They're supposed to be doing a 3-series competitor; if that's still the case it's not that car.
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May 17, 2016 18:45
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El Scotch posted:Further on the Korean thing I'm gonna guess 187 inches long.
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May 17, 2016 19:36
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Huge_Midget posted:Hahahahahahahahaha Pretty much, and I'm looking to get one.  Edit: A 156. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 19:41
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El Scotch posted:Further on the Korean thing Covered above, but that looks like a Long Wheel Base version of a standard car, so at a guess, it's probably a limo version to compete with the LWB Germans.
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May 17, 2016 20:12
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Linedance posted:Covered above, but that looks like a Long Wheel Base version of a standard car, so at a guess, it's probably a limo version to compete with the LWB Germans. AKA a China special.
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May 17, 2016 21:13
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El Scotch posted:I was guessing that size, too. They're supposed to be doing a 3-series competitor; if that's still the case it's not that car. Give me a 4 series competitor with the Tau V8 v.2 (or a Twin Turbo V6, even though conceptually I hate the things) and ill be a happy camper.
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May 17, 2016 21:35
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D C posted:AKA a China special. China has their priorities right on this one. Having decent leg space in the back seat rules.
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May 17, 2016 21:38
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Sigma X posted:Like modern 7-series big. More like 5-series/E-class/A6 big. It's the Kia version of the Hyundai G80, nee Genesis Sedan. The bigger K900/Equus/K90 is the size of an S-class/7-series/A8. KozmoNaut posted:China has their priorities right on this one. Having decent leg space in the back seat rules. EnergizerFellow fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 22:14
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EnergizerFellow posted:More like 5-series/E-class/A6 big. It's the Kia version of the Hyundai G80, nee Genesis Sedan. The bigger K900/Equus/K90 is the size of an S-class/7-series/A8. Infiniti sells the LWB Q70 too. Which is like the old M35 or something I don't loving know. Anyway both Volvo and Infiniti just don't have anything above their midsize sedans to charge more money for so the LWB is the best they can do I guess. Introducing a LWB would need new crash testing(and the LWB would probably either do worse or require more crash structure) and epa certification, so while for Infiniti and Volvo it's better than nothing, for BMW they would just tell you to step up to the next size if you really need the space that badly.
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May 17, 2016 22:33
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EnergizerFellow posted:More like 5-series/E-class/A6 big. It's the Kia version of the Hyundai G80, nee Genesis Sedan. The bigger K900/Equus/K90 is the size of an S-class/7-series/A8. It eats into their model stratification because yoire supposed to pay a lot more for a longer car. A lwb 5 series cannibalizes sales from your 7 series, and so on. This is the same reason they stopped selling the 5 series wagon - people buy them instead of 7 serieses, and the 7 series is more profitable
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May 17, 2016 23:32
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Mange Mite posted:It eats into their model stratification because yoire supposed to pay a lot more for a longer car. A lwb 5 series cannibalizes sales from your 7 series, and so on. This is the same reason they stopped selling the 5 series wagon - people buy them instead of 7 serieses, and the 7 series is more profitable The solution to that is to stop selling the SWB version entirely in the US (and possibly the Middle East, China, and South Africa as well) and keep the SWB though chunks of the EMEA/BRIC markets (which appears to be exactly what Volvo and Infiniti are doing). If memory serves, the SWB S-class, A8, and 7-series are now unavailable in the USA with the lone exception being the S8, which is SWB. I think Jaguar may still offer separate SWB/LWB models in the US?
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May 17, 2016 23:49
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Mange Mite posted:It eats into their model stratification because yoire supposed to pay a lot more for a longer car. A lwb 5 series cannibalizes sales from your 7 series, and so on. This is the same reason they stopped selling the 5 series wagon - people buy them instead of 7 serieses, and the 7 series is more profitable Didn't they stop selling the 5 series wagon to sell that one (bloated thing) GT that then cannibalized the sales of their 7 series?
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