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Sophian posted:Also, how is my source poo poo? Direct footage of the events from cellphones and periscopes seem like pretty solid sources. It's a lot harder to spin things when it's not through the filter of a major media outlet. Remember the protests in Ferguson? The unedited footage of events provided by Democracy Now and Vice showed a very different picture than the slick production of the mainstream media at the time. When footage on the ground shows a police force tear gassing the community it is a lot different and more credible than two or three unnamed white people yelling at each other for 'reasons'. To think that that can't be filmed and edited to manufacturer a particular narrative is pretty naive.
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May 19, 2016 10:03
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I think a middle of the road answer might be that Bernie got ratfucked, in complete accordance with the written rules and procedures. This was my hunch, pretty much. It's all legal and according to the rules but still bullshit. As far as the registration stuff goes, I believe it was in Arizona that we saw thousands of folks mysteriously have their registration changed without their knowledge and, in some cases, with forged signatures. A few folks even brought their registration cards with them to prove that they were registered Democrats but they still weren't allowed to vote. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but when enough people start to have the same story regarding registration shenanigans, it makes my spidey sense tingle. Edit: New York had a similar issue Sophian fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 10:03
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:That's the claim. Ok, fair enough. But if this is the case, is it really that hard for the chair to stop for a minute and clarify everything? Sorry, but after working a 5 year stint in retail, I have a hard time seeing how a person in a public-facing role is so incompetent in framing an unfavorable situation in a manner that is easily understood by ordinary people. Best case scenario, this was extremely disrespectful to people new to the political process and will only serve to alienate this sudden infusion of first time voters. If the DNC was smart, they would've treated this with kid gloves so as to secure the loyalty of the new generation that adores Sanders.
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May 19, 2016 10:09
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Its pretty easy to lie on the internet. Especially when its your first election and you dont really have any clue how any of this works or whats normal. All you have a vauge theories and accusations and nothing to back any of it up. This is all a bunch of facebook/reddit nonsense.
bird cooch fucked around with this message at 10:12 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 10:10
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Sophian posted:This was my hunch, pretty much. It's all legal and according to the rules but still bullshit. As far as the registration stuff goes, I believe it was in Arizona that we saw thousands of folks mysteriously have their registration changed without their knowledge and, in some cases, with forged signatures. A few folks even brought their registration cards with them to prove that they were registered Democrats but they still weren't allowed to vote. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but when enough people start to have the same story regarding registration shenanigans, it makes my spidey sense tingle. I'm not aware of any forged signature accusations in Arizona, I did see one accusation in New York. For people who said that they'd been a Democrat forever and then were denied at the polls, they were able to confirm at the Secretary of State's office that they were indeed registered and that their provisional ballot would be counted. If I had confidence in the Maricopa County Recorder, Helen Purcell, I might believe there were shenanigans. Helen is lovely enough that I believe that incompetence is a far more likely cause.
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May 19, 2016 10:11
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Sophian posted:Ok, fair enough. But if this is the case, is it really that hard for the chair to stop for a minute and clarify everything? Sorry, but after working a 5 year stint in retail, I have a hard time seeing how a person in a public-facing role is so incompetent in framing an unfavorable situation in a manner that is easily understood by ordinary people. Best case scenario, this was extremely disrespectful to people new to the political process and will only serve to alienate this sudden infusion of first time voters. If the DNC was smart, they would've treated this with kid gloves so as to secure the loyalty of the new generation that adores Sanders. They were yelling and screaming from the first instant they heard the first thing they didn't like, how do you kids glove that? And why even would you? Because they felt entitled to a share of the delegates beyond the share of the popular vote they earned? Sanders and his people love caucuses and the arcane bullshit they enable, unless of course it's not them benefiting, then it's time to loving riot. I'm not going to lose sleep over people with no ideological consistency or even the faint glimmer of maybe having loyalty to the party for even a single day being boxed out, especially if "being screwed" is defined as "rules both campaigns agreed on allot delegates proportionally to how the popular vote shook out"
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May 19, 2016 10:18
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To be fair, showing up when the other side doesn't, and getting more votes as a result is pretty low on the scale. That said, they should (and apparently did) anticipate that there'd be an attempt to undo that. Politics is a rough sport, people gently caress over people that they like, there's no reason to expect fair treatment if you're disliked.
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May 19, 2016 10:22
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Good opportunity to write your Representative and let them know they're an idiot for letting this continue. https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/733107033055055872
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May 19, 2016 10:52
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VitalSigns posted:Let me make sure I understand the conspiracy theory here. So after winning the Obama coalition of diverse groups of voters across the country, including in Nevada, racking up a lead of hundreds of pledged delegates, and reaching the point at which because of the proportional allocation system Hillary is all but guaranteed to clinch the nomination after the big contests of June 7th, she nevertheless ordered the Nevada Democratic Party to fabricate the registration status of Sanders delegates to unrightfully refuse to seat them and somehow pulling off this devious plot was easier than just making sure all her delegates showed which would have given her the majority anyway... all so she could steal 2 delegates which won't change the outcome of the convention. You just can't trust her, you see. She's Hillary Clinton!
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May 19, 2016 11:04
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Sophian posted:Also, how is my source poo poo? Direct footage of the events from cellphones and periscopes seem like pretty solid sources. It's a lot harder to spin things when it's not through the filter of a major media outlet. Remember the protests in Ferguson? The unedited footage of events provided by Democracy Now and Vice showed a very different picture than the slick production of the mainstream media at the time. It's Reddit dude. They're the echoest of echo chambers. Any evidence showing anything other than plucky ol bernbros getting stomped on would get down voted all the way to the pedo page. Should also point out that Hillary has about 3mil more primary votes too. It's legitimate win and bernie needs to shut it down. Islam is the Lite Rock FM fucked around with this message at 12:09 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 12:03
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DemeaninDemon posted:It's Reddit dude. They're the echoest of echo chambers. Any evidence showing anything other than plucky ol bernbros getting stomped on would get down voted all the way to the pedo page. Popular vote doesn't matter. If it did we would be at the end of term two of Hillary.
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May 19, 2016 12:23
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Obama won that by 0.1% or about 40k votes according to real clear. That's where I got the 3mil number too.
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May 19, 2016 12:32
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DemeaninDemon posted:Obama won that by 0.1% or about 40k votes according to real clear. That's where I got the 3mil number too. Again popular vote doesn't matter. It is the delegate total that matters.
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May 19, 2016 12:36
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Mr Hootington posted:Again popular vote doesn't matter. It is the delegate total that matters. Cool! Thanks for letting me know.
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May 19, 2016 12:43
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Bernie's caucus strategy made trying to get ahead in the popular vote and using that as an argument to lure the superdelegates completely impossible. In fact if every contest had been a primary, Bernie would've probably been  after Super Tuesday I. Well, he essentially was even in this universe.You just can't make a "the popular vote matters" argument and then also claim caucuses are legitimate results. Oh gently caress, dem primary chat!
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May 19, 2016 12:48
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Idk I think people yelling and shouting about things that they are emotionally invested in is an inevitable consequence of getting people who are outsiders to the political process engaged for the first time. That doesn't excuse death threats and the gross misogynistic insults tossed around but a bunch of 60 and 70 year old people saying this is an affront to democracy (in which case I would smugly point out that America is a republic) and acting like this is a scene that has never taken place in modern American politics is loving laughable after 1968.
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May 19, 2016 12:50
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His Purple Majesty posted:Nah that just makes you a closet white nationalist What does "our good looks" in that quote mean to you
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May 19, 2016 13:02
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Joementum posted:Good opportunity to write your Representative and let them know they're an idiot for letting this continue. Entirely disagree, without a new AUMF to authorize action it would cripple all overseas antiterrorist activity, as the President, in sixty days, would be in violation of the war powers act without Congressional authorization. I'm not willing to risk the credibility of American use of military force with an obstructionist Congress.
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May 19, 2016 13:07
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Cat Army 
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yeah i'm sure the continuation of drone ops and jsoc stuff is totally contingent on the AUMF heehee hoho haha
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May 19, 2016 13:09
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DemeaninDemon posted:Fine. Add in assisted suicide to help nature get off its lazy rear end. It's up to either the person or the family just like other care. So did you miss this part? quote:Detectives said Hager told them he had contemplated shooting his wife for several days. Hager said his wife had talked about her desire to die, but she never asked him to kill her, according to his arrest report. That isn't helping nature take its course. That isn't assisted suicide. That's homicide.
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May 19, 2016 13:12
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TheQat posted:yeah i'm sure the continuation of drone ops and jsoc stuff is totally contingent on the AUMF heehee hoho haha It is if you give a poo poo about the US being a nation ruled by laws rather than the whims of its leaders.
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May 19, 2016 13:16
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TheQat posted:yeah i'm sure the continuation of drone ops and jsoc stuff is totally contingent on the AUMF heehee hoho haha Covert and deniable operations are not, most drone strikes would be. Though it's somewhat of an open question considering that the War Powers Act requires the President to get authority within 60 days of American troops involved in foreign conflict actions overseas and drones are obviously unmanned, but the point remains that the AUMF of 2001 is nonetheless the source of legal authority for most overseas action. This is particularly relevant since the Paris-Cairo plane that just crashed was likely due to terrorism, according to aviation experts (of which I'm not one obviously, there's not a lot of information known yet).
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May 19, 2016 13:19
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VanSandman posted:It is if you give a poo poo about the US being a nation ruled by laws rather than the whims of its leaders. this is a world run by wolves, now and you're no wolf
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May 19, 2016 13:21
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Did anyone else hear this poo poo yesterday like I did? "Oh wow, did you hear about Venezuela? They don't even have basic services, sanitation in their hospitals, people are dying from preventable diseases and waiting on line for food...THIS is what 'feel the Bern' is really like, amirite?" I don't even know where to start with how horribly ignorant this statement is. Never ceases to amaze me how good the right is at making buzzwords and twisting facts.
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May 19, 2016 13:32
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We can't rescind the AUMF, then we couldn't have eternal war forever and ever. We're just about to beat terrorism you guys, blowing up this next hospital will do it for sure.
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May 19, 2016 13:41
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VH4Ever posted:Did anyone else hear this poo poo yesterday like I did? I'm pretty sure the average American, regardless of political party thinks that the rest of the world is some kind of dystopian hellscape where people die from simple diseases and there is no running water with the exception of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan.
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May 19, 2016 13:42
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VanSandman posted:It is if you give a poo poo about the US being a nation ruled by laws rather than the whims of its leaders. i mean, I care about those things, but i'm not holding out much hope that the drone/jsoc apparatus will be reeled in or even scaled back that much by AUMF repeal. like the NSA saying "okay, we stopped collecting phone data," it would be pretty unverifiable for average citizens. and there would be something to replace it on the table every congressional season emdash fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 13:46
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Radish posted:I'm pretty sure the average American, regardless of political party thinks that the rest of the world is some kind of dystopian hellscape where people die from simple diseases and there is no running water with the exception of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan. Those things actually are happening in Venezuela, whose insane kleptocracy keeps getting worse. The Venezuela thread is really depressing. 
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May 19, 2016 13:49
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Night10194 posted:Those things actually are happening in Venezuela, whose insane kleptocracy keeps getting worse. Showing my ignorance. That's terrible.
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May 19, 2016 13:50
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VitalSigns posted:We can't rescind the AUMF, then we couldn't have eternal war forever and ever. We can't rescind the AUMF without something to replace, because even discounting the legitimate national security reasons, it'd critically undermine American credibility, and that's something that's incredibly dangerous. It's really not in our best interests to do so.
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May 19, 2016 13:52
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Ah yes the war on terror, that great boost to American credibility abroad. Let's do it forever.
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May 19, 2016 13:58
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https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/733280631493382145 PPP getting sharp on the haters
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May 19, 2016 13:59
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Radish posted:I'm pretty sure the average American, regardless of political party thinks that the rest of the world is some kind of dystopian hellscape where people die from simple diseases and there is no running water with the exception of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan. I have spoken to Americans who think this is the case in Europe and Canada as well. It's fascinating to meet someone who has literally no curiosity about the world outside their tiny bubble. Sophian posted:This was my hunch, pretty much. It's all legal and according to the rules but still bullshit. As far as the registration stuff goes, I believe it was in Arizona that we saw thousands of folks mysteriously have their registration changed without their knowledge and, in some cases, with forged signatures. A few folks even brought their registration cards with them to prove that they were registered Democrats but they still weren't allowed to vote. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but when enough people start to have the same story regarding registration shenanigans, it makes my spidey sense tingle. And yet here we are discussing conspiracy theories.
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May 19, 2016 14:05
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VitalSigns posted:Ah yes the war on terror, that great boost to American credibility abroad. Do you actually know what credibly means in a foreign policy/IR context?
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May 19, 2016 14:12
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Yes it means how much can you please a Henry Kissinger type with your commitment to bombing other countries with no public accountability or oversight. The ideal of course is a blank check to the executive for endless open-ended war with an undefined enemy.
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May 19, 2016 14:19
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VitalSigns posted:I feel moral revulsion at the prospect of a suffering terminally ill person being forced to remain in pain against their will just so the Reverend Mrs Lovejoy doesn't have her religious sensibilities offended, what now. I feel revolted at people pressuring their loved ones to commit suicide. Also still no answer to being morally and revolted on either cop brutality of rampant visible inequality.
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May 19, 2016 14:23
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Crowsbeak posted:I feel revolted at people pressuring their loved ones to commit suicide. Also still no answer to being morally and revolted on either cop brutality of rampant visible inequality. I don't know why you didn't take the angle of why is it ok to execute an enfeebled, old person but not someone who committed genocide.
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May 19, 2016 14:29
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Radish posted:I'm pretty sure the average American, regardless of political party thinks that the rest of the world is some kind of dystopian hellscape where people die from simple diseases and there is no running water with the exception of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan. Australia wasn't named, checks out.
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May 19, 2016 14:30
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quote:In the final days of his life, former Utah Republican Senator Bob Bennett turned to his son and asked him, "Are there any Muslims in this hospital?" 
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May 19, 2016 14:37
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Taerkar posted:Australia wasn't named, checks out.
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