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I just realized who's opposing all this fun continuity talk. I'll just leave it at  MY HEADCANONS and not join in on the contrarianism. 
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May 19, 2016 20:37
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Yodzilla posted:I just realized this game doesn't have Pain Elementals, what the hell. Lost Souls were kinda barely used too. Yeah I noted on day-1 that pain elementals were missing from snapmap and figured they wouldn't be in campaign. I think its because of their spawning mechanic could end up creating performance concerns for console. They'd have to limit it so there could never be more than X lost souls, meaning that the pain elemental could get into situations often where he'd just stand around. They could give him a fireball backup but then he's just a cacodemon. Cacos are cooler so I'm okay with it, but it is kinda sad that one of the old crew didn't make it back. Klaus88 posted:I find the mention of angels/heaven in doom very weird myself. I actually thought having a Heaven map in Diablo 3 was cool and wouldn't mind having something similar in Doom. But I'd rather have a Quake 5 full of Lovecraftian horrors than a traditional Catholic Heaven.
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May 19, 2016 20:42
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This game is the Bayonetta of FPS. I would pay like 20 bucks for a single player DLC mode where you could roam randomized arenas with progressively more challenging battles. PIck up random perks and upgrades, with permadeath, roguelike style. Like a mode that would play a bit like Ziggurat, except good.
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May 19, 2016 20:43
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Morter posted:I just realized who's opposing all this fun continuity talk. I'm not opposing anything, I just don't understand how anyone can talk about something when it's textually wrongity wrong wrong.
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May 19, 2016 20:43
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electrigger posted:This game is the Bayonetta of FPS. I would pay like 20 bucks for a single player DLC mode where you could roam randomized arenas with progressively more challenging battles. PIck up random perks and upgrades, with permadeath, roguelike style. Like a mode that would play a bit like Ziggurat, except good. Yeah a polished AAA Ziggurat in this engine would be super rad. I'd love just a proper firefight / survival mode, co-op doom with lots of monsters is pretty fun poo poo. Hopefully we'll see some slick SnapMaps come out but it has some limitations that hold it back.
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May 19, 2016 20:45
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Yeah they literally say that the Doom Slayer is an ancient alien here. I think the only thing you need to make it fit still is "well argent dur is a parallel universe version of earth, that's why he looks human, he's the same dude from 1/2/64."
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May 19, 2016 20:51
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Are there any specific forums anybody knows of that id software reads to get player input/opinion?
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May 19, 2016 20:52
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Zaphod42 posted:I actually thought having a Heaven map in Diablo 3 was cool and wouldn't mind having something similar in Doom. A Divine Comedy-themed WAD would be fun to make. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 20:53
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Vince MechMahon posted:Yeah they literally say that the Doom Slayer is an ancient alien here. I think the only thing you need to make it fit still is "well argent dur is a parallel universe version of earth, that's why he looks human, he's the same dude from 1/2/64." they say it from the perspective of the people exhuming the doom slayer who have not played doom 1-64
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May 19, 2016 20:53
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GreatGreen posted:Are there any specific forums anybody knows of that id software reads to get player input/opinion? I'm Tiago Sousa, what do you need?
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May 19, 2016 20:54
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Gay But Crush Puss posted:I'm Tiago Sousa, what do you need? Sounds legit
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May 19, 2016 20:56
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I'm having trouble filling all the Combat pips in Argent Tower. There appears to be a couple of countdown timers ongoing but I just can't seem to kill enough before the timer runs out to get a full Combat score. Or is it possible I've missed a monster or two earlier in the level?  edit - never mind, turns out it was because I just wasn't killing enough things. There's a Quad Damage somewhere in the mission which really helps, especially if you couple it with the Plasma Rifle and just squirt your way through the four hundred Revenants and Hell Knights that appear. Yoshimo fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 20:56
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GreatGreen posted:Are there any specific forums anybody knows of that id software reads to get player input/opinion? There are none.
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May 19, 2016 20:57
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 Thanks, Internet.
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May 19, 2016 20:58
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why did you do this
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May 19, 2016 21:03
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WoodrowSkillson posted:they say it from the perspective of the people exhuming the doom slayer who have not played doom 1-64 I thought that too, but in the last mission there are some demonic info dumps that talk about invading the world of Argent D' Nur and one of the Night Sentinals being the badass that got one of the demon lords so scared they betrayed the demons and created the Doom Marine suit (though it isn't directly called that) so Doomguy would spare him. basically it removes all ambiguity of his origin. And honestly I hope I'm missing something because I like having the connection to the previous games.
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May 19, 2016 21:07
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So I went to a Redbox to rent the game for my console to see if it's any good on there and by the end of the first mission I had already decided to buy it. And when I get a new computer at the end of the year I'm buying it again on steam. Too good.
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May 19, 2016 21:09
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Plan Z posted:A Divine Comedy-themed WAD would be fun to make. I was saying before what I really want is a true surrealistic vision of hell, but I'd go with Beksinski and Barlowe over Alighieri. But some of the Divine Comedy could be tossed in too.
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May 19, 2016 21:12
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Do they actually say 'Doom Slayer was born, raised, and endured a turbulent adolescence on Argent D'Nur before finally becoming a Night Sentinel' because all I can remember being established for certain is that he fought as part of the Night Sentinel order at the time Argent D'Nur was betrayed and corrupted, which needn't be inconsistent with him being Doom 1/2/64 Guy who wandered the Hell planes and timelines for thousands of years after Doom 64 before ending up at Argent D'Nur. It would also explain why his armor is much closer to OG Doom armor (albeit obviously improved upon) than any of the quasi-medieval stuff the other knights are shown wearing. preview edit: ChristopherRobin posted:I thought that too, but in the last mission there are some demonic info dumps that talk about invading the world of Argent D' Nur and one of the Night Sentinals being the badass that got one of the demon lords so scared they betrayed the demons and created the Doom Marine suit (though it isn't directly called that) so Doomguy would spare him. basically it removes all ambiguity of his origin. And honestly I hope I'm missing something because I like having the connection to the previous games. I don't disbelieve you that those info dumps are there and say that, and I'll have to go back and check them for myself, but it doesn't make sense. If the Praetor Suit was made by a demon lord as a bribe, then why does it visually fit in so well with the human sci-fi aesthetic of the UAC (and technologically interface so readily with UAC stuff), and look basically nothing like a product of Hell or of whoever made the Night Sentinel armor? --------- Anyway, if they go into greater depth on the angels/seraphim, it better be in a way that doesn't make them out to be purely good guys. Diablo 3 had a good approach overall, I think, what with Heaven (Tyrael aside) being a giant bunch of dicks who see humanity as tools in the fight against Hell. In the DO4M storyline, this would fit in perfectly with Doomguy's established history of being used (at least temporarily) by dicks with their own agenda.  Funkmaster General posted:The Crucible is an artifact from Argent D'nur, from before it was absorbed into Hell. I'm not sure if its demonic appearance is coincidence (after all, the Wraiths also look pretty demonic, despite not being so) or if it was corrupted sometime after, but it isn't demonic in origin. Ok, yeah, that makes perfect sense, since, y'know, everything else in Argent D'Nur has been corrupted by its thousands of years as part of Hell. I wonder what the Crucible originally looked like, and if its "blade" in particular was different.
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May 19, 2016 21:12
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JerryLee posted:Anyway, if they go into greater depth on the angels/seraphim, it better be in a way that doesn't make them out to be purely good guys. Diablo 3 had a good approach overall, I think, what with Heaven (Tyrael aside) being a giant bunch of dicks who see humanity as tools in the fight against Hell. In the DO4M storyline, this would fit in perfectly with Doomguy's established history of being used (at least temporarily) by dicks with their own agenda. My one complaint about how Diablo handled things is I preferred D1/D2 where angels were almost just some kind of weird aliens. There wasn't necessarily a clear moral stance, although Angels obviously were more on our side than the Devils/Demons were, but they weren't exactly god's chosen children or anything, they did a good job of sidestepping to religion a bit. But then D3 went and made it so that Tyrael could cut off his wings and turn into a mortal, loving the entire lore over. And they also had a Nephilim human/angel baby hybrid thing which was completely stupid and unnecessary. loving Metzen and his hack writing. Diablo was better when it was just a super grimdark world and Angels and Demons were fighting it out and didn't give much of a poo poo about humans, and then a few humans managed to be bad rear end enough to go "no, gently caress you, we're not taking this anymore."
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May 19, 2016 21:16
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ChristopherRobin posted:I thought that too, but in the last mission there are some demonic info dumps that talk about invading the world of Argent D' Nur and one of the Night Sentinals being the badass that got one of the demon lords so scared they betrayed the demons and created the Doom Marine suit (though it isn't directly called that) so Doomguy would spare him. basically it removes all ambiguity of his origin. And honestly I hope I'm missing something because I like having the connection to the previous games. Close. The traitor demon crafting the Doom Walker's armor event and the betrayal of Argent D' Nur are two distinct events. Hell couldn't crack Argent D' Nur because the Night Sentinals (which Doom Walker was the head of) were too good at kicking their rear end in general, so one of them came up with the idea of getting one of the NSes to betray the rest, which quickly led to Argent D' Nur's fall and assimilation into hell. I want to say that the Doom Walker getting the fancy hell armor happens after the fall of Argent D' Nur, long after Doom Walker has been doing his "getting revenge on Hell" thing for a long time. As I type this, an interesting thought struck me and I'm not sure if the timeline allows it: Do you get the "'Vega is just going to be another dusty relic of how awesome Hell is" entry before or after you kill him? I wonder if the fact that the Doom Walker backing him up is just another way of giving the finger to Hell. No, Vega isn't just doing to be an abandoned relic, he's going to live on, fuckers!
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May 19, 2016 21:19
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The praetor suit looks like UAC stuff because the UAC reverse engineered the suit's tech to use for their dudes. I still think the doom slayer is doomguy.
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May 19, 2016 21:19
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what's your demon killcount fellow space marines? I'm up to 7 of those hell bastards
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May 19, 2016 21:19
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poo poo, are you all really telling me that I need to know the story of Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 to play this game? Doom?
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May 19, 2016 21:20
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JerryLee posted:Do they actually say 'Doom Slayer was born, raised, and endured a turbulent adolescence on Argent D'Nur before finally becoming a Night Sentinel' because all I can remember being established for certain is that he fought as part of the Night Sentinel order at the time Argent D'Nur was betrayed and corrupted, which needn't be inconsistent with him being Doom 1/2/64 Guy who wandered the Hell planes and timelines for thousands of years after Doom 64 before ending up at Argent D'Nur. Actually just went back and read Funmaster General's post about how Doomguy found Argent D'Nur while tearing Hell a new rear end in a top hat and joined the Night Sentinals so he could do that with them and I've officially accepted that as truth. Also I'm not sure about the demon lord making his armor. The texts get really strange with perspective, pronouns, and titles where you have to understand that the demonic text is from their perspective, I think anyway. The text basically says The Betrayer gave over to evil and created an armor to appease the guy loving everything up and I assume the Betrayer is a demon that betrayed the demons, and gave over to evil means evil from the demons perspective which would be good. It's really kind of confusing.
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May 19, 2016 21:20
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Capsaicin posted:poo poo, are you all really telling me that I need to know the story of Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 to play this game? Doom? The story of Doom is a marine gets sent to Mars because he punched his superior officer after the officer ordered him to open fire on civilians. Then hell breaks loose and he fucks poo poo up. Then at the end of Doom 64 he decided to stay in Hell. That's really all you need to know. And by need to know, I mean you don't, but it's interesting to know.
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May 19, 2016 21:23
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Capsaicin posted:poo poo, are you all really telling me that I need to know the story of Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 to play this game? Doom? You don't need to know any story to play any DooM, period. Your instructions are as follows: Rip and Tear.
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May 19, 2016 21:23
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none of you are taking the deep and intricate plot of the doom franchise seriously what the gently caress
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May 19, 2016 21:24
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JerryLee posted:I don't disbelieve you that those info dumps are there and say that, and I'll have to go back and check them for myself, but it doesn't make sense. If the Praetor Suit was made by a demon lord as a bribe, then why does it visually fit in so well with the human sci-fi aesthetic of the UAC (and technologically interface so readily with UAC stuff), and look basically nothing like a product of Hell or of whoever made the Night Sentinel armor? Maybe Samuel Hayden (or S.Hayden) is the traitor demon, which is also why he can cross the Hell portal (cause he's actually a demon) and why the suit is compatible with UAC equipment (because one was built to support the other)? E: Better answer is who cares RIP AND TEAR
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May 19, 2016 21:25
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I've enjoying the poo poo out of this game. It is exactly what I was hoping for in a doom sequel. I'm only on the argent tower so far but it is awesome. The new mechanics all seem to work really well for the game, I'm actually pretty impressed. I'm hoping at some point people recreate the classic doom levels to play in the new engine. The only thing the game seems to be missing to me is more prominent theme music.
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May 19, 2016 21:25
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Gay But Crush Puss posted:The praetor suit looks like UAC stuff because the UAC reverse engineered the suit's tech to use for their dudes. But in that case, where does the suit's aesthetic come from in the first place? It doesn't come from Hell or from the Night Sentinels. I still think it makes the most sense for it to come from a previous incarnation of the UAC (where "previous incarnation" is a loose term that can refer to either or both of previous cycles of human civilization, or actual separate timelines, as necessary). Capsaicin posted:poo poo, are you all really telling me that I need to know the story of Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 to play this game? Doom? You absolutely don't need to, and I was just thinking (independently of your post) that this is why I love this discussion. We  s can be having this big debate over what the loredumps in the game actually mean or signify, and none of it is actually critical to or gets in the way of the gameplay in the game itself.
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May 19, 2016 21:25
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MisterBibs posted:Close. The traitor demon crafting the Doom Walker's armor event and the betrayal of Argent D' Nur are two distinct events. Hell couldn't crack Argent D' Nur because the Night Sentinals (which Doom Walker was the head of) were too good at kicking their rear end in general, so one of them came up with the idea of getting one of the NSes to betray the rest, which quickly led to Argent D' Nur's fall and assimilation into hell. I want to say that the Doom Walker getting the fancy hell armor happens after the fall of Argent D' Nur, long after Doom Walker has been doing his "getting revenge on Hell" thing for a long time. Makes sense. This is what I'm talking about with pronouns, titles, and perspective being really confusing in the dossiers sometimes.
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May 19, 2016 21:26
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Ostentatious posted:none of you are taking the deep and intricate plot of the doom franchise seriously what the gently caress Exactly, haven't any of you ever read the Doom novels? This Doom doesn't even go into the glory of Mormonism
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May 19, 2016 21:26
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JerryLee posted:Do they actually say 'Doom Slayer was born, raised, and endured a turbulent adolescence on Argent D'Nur before finally becoming a Night Sentinel' because all I can remember being established for certain is that he fought as part of the Night Sentinel order at the time Argent D'Nur was betrayed and corrupted, which needn't be inconsistent with him being Doom 1/2/64 Guy who wandered the Hell planes and timelines for thousands of years after Doom 64 before ending up at Argent D'Nur. I'll pull up the full text later, but they explicitly state that Doom Walker was the leader of the Night Senintels when Hell first started trying to invade. The Doom Walker's rampage is founded on the fall of Argent D'Nur It ties into how little Doom Walker cares about turning off all the power to the solar system. He doesn't give a poo poo about Earth, because its not his world. He's not protecting it, he's just continually avenging Argent D'Nur, his own lost homeworld. It's, thematically, why going to that location in the end is as important as it is: he's going home. JerryLee posted:I don't disbelieve you that those info dumps are there and say that, and I'll have to go back and check them for myself, but it doesn't make sense. If the Praetor Suit was made by a demon lord as a bribe, then why does it visually fit in so well with the human sci-fi aesthetic of the UAC (and technologically interface so readily with UAC stuff), and look basically nothing like a product of Hell or of whoever made the Night Sentinel armor? Because everything the UAC is working with during the events of the game are either based on, or derived from Argent (Hell) Energy. His suit can use and absorb it to power up his systems. If the UAC is working on HellTechEngine 1.5, the Praetor Armor is HellTechEngine 9.5. Half in jest, I kinda want the next Doom to be Crisis On Infinite Dooms. Doom Guy, Flynn Taggart, Doom 3 Marine, the Doom Walker, all working together. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 21:26
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Capsaicin posted:poo poo, are you all really telling me that I need to know the story of Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 to play this game? Doom? So note that the plot they have described is the kind of madness you'd get in the liner of some kind of weird concept metal album. That's doom. Concept metal album the videogame. Don't worry about the plot too much, just accept that every little snippet of plot the game throws at you makes it even more badass.
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May 19, 2016 21:27
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MisterBibs posted:Because everything the UAC is working with during the events of the game are either based on, or derived from Argent (Hell) Energy. His suit can use and absorb it to power up his systems. If the UAC is working on HellTechEngine 1.5, the Praetor Armor is HellTechEngine 9.5. I think that's stretching it a bit. An iPad runs on electricity but that doesn't mean that electricity as a concept has somehow influenced the form factor of the iPad or the design of the operating system.
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May 19, 2016 21:29
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I like that Doom 4 implies that you are the guy from the two or three good Doom games that preceded it but doesn't spend a bunch of time on plot and background stuff overall.
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May 19, 2016 21:30
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All this talk about the suit being reverse-engineered is something I don't agree with now that I take a quick glance over the Doom Marine codex. In particular, they say they only did tolerance tests with it, but it couldn't be "activated" without the Doom Marine. Also, in the second entry, the picture is clearly of Doomguy in the exact same suit (as opposed to an older suit that was later 'modernized'), so whatever you're wearing is the last thing he wore before he entombed, for sure. Nothing UAC related.
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May 19, 2016 21:31
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I like how MisterBibs is doggedly pushing the World of Warcraft interpretation of this game's plot instead of the more interesting and better-supported version 
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May 19, 2016 21:32
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JerryLee posted:I think that's stretching it a bit. An iPad runs on electricity but that doesn't mean that electricity as a concept has somehow influenced the form factor of the iPad or the design of the operating system. If today we found a way to make a battery that makes li-Ion look like a match stick, it would totally influence the form factor and design of things. Cars come to mind. Morter posted:All this talk about the suit being reverse-engineered is something I don't agree with now that I take a quick glance over the Doom Marine codex. No, they didn't reverse-engineer their tech from the Praetor Suit (as you correctly pointed out). They've been working with HellTech long before they found Doom Walker. Discovered the Rift (I think its called that, the first place where they discovered Argent Plasma), went to Hell, built stuff around what they found and could harvest, yadda yadda yadda, found Doom Walker's box. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 21:36
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