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someone tell me the correct opinion to hold so i dont have to care about this poo poo. yospos bitch
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May 18, 2016 20:56
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it seems like a lot of people think oracle is asserting they own a copyright on String.compareTo(String), but I think it's more accurate to say they have a copyright on java.lang.String.compareTo(java.lang.String) which isn't nearly as broad
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May 18, 2016 20:58
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refleks posted:someone tell me the correct opinion to hold so i dont have to care about this poo poo. both companies are bad, sit back and enjoy either side getting a legal beatdown
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May 18, 2016 21:08
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Google lawyer just slammed the economist who said 'a java phone was inevitable success' and that android stole the thunder by not licensing by listing a long list of terrible javaphones that failed before and after android got around, and even whipped a SavaJe phone in the face of the economist to show how lovely it was apparently
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May 18, 2016 21:12
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Ludwig van Halen posted:it seems like a lot of people think oracle is asserting they own a copyright on String.compareTo(String), but I think it's more accurate to say they have a copyright on java.lang.String.compareTo(java.lang.String) which isn't nearly as broad they are not claiming that either, they are claiming a copyright on java, and it is up to the courts to decide what size a fragment is large enough to no longer be fair use you need a license to use a sample of a drum solo off of some copyrighted album, but will likely be ok if you sample a single snare hit. the line is deliberately fuzzy, to make the law applicable to new situations by having professionals interpret the spirit of it
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May 18, 2016 21:15
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fun little sample i found no real use for in that post but still enjoyed hearing the context of btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Amen_Break,_in_context.ogg
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May 18, 2016 21:16
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MononcQc posted:Google lawyer just slammed the economist who said 'a java phone was inevitable success' and that android stole the thunder by not licensing by listing a long list of terrible javaphones that failed before and after android got around, and even whipped a SavaJe phone in the face of the economist to show how lovely it was apparently and then google ripped off java for their phone. what was the goog lawyers point?
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May 18, 2016 22:01
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Shaggar posted:and then google ripped off java for their phone. what was the goog lawyers point? The point was that Oracle called an expert witness who's an economist pushing the idea that a phone running Java with the 37 APIs in there was critical to the success of Android, and that without Android a Java phone was inevitable in the market; Android just stole the spotlight given the timing. Google pretty much proved that Java phones with or without the 37 APIs were proven to fail before and after android, including from licensed uses of Java, going against the point of the expert witness (an economist doing technological prognostics). They did so in the most theatrical way possible by whipping a lovely java phone out of his pocket and asking the expert witness "was this phone a success?" and whatnot. MononcQc fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 22:09
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Also Oracle's got 51 more minutes tomorrow to finish presenting its proof and doing the cross-exam of witnesses from Google. Google is left with 125 mins. Oracle asked for a 30 mins extension on both sides, google said nope and judge agreed. Either Oracle won't have time to fully present some proof or won't have time to fully cross-examine witnesses I guess?
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May 18, 2016 22:10
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MononcQc posted:The point was that Oracle called an expert witness who's an economist pushing the idea that a phone running Java with the 37 APIs in there was critical to the success of Android, and that without Android a Java phone was inevitable in the market; Android just stole the spotlight given the timing. how was it not instrumental to android if Google sat and thought hmm should we copy this api or write our own and they chose to copy because it was better than doing it themselves
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May 18, 2016 23:09
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Ludwig van Halen posted:how was it not instrumental to android if Google sat and thought hmm should we copy this api or write our own and they chose to copy because it was better than doing it themselves the expert witness is an economist and can only testify to the value of using Java APIs on market forces afaict. The argument as far as I could get it from twitter was that 'a java phone was inevitable' and that Android shipping with unlicensed APIs stole and killed the market from Sun/Oracle's grasp. Showing poo poo java phones helps disprove that point. The other opinions like "the API is essential to the technological stack" are kind of pointless when they come with the caveat of "as an economist, I ..."
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May 18, 2016 23:43
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MononcQc posted:the expert witness is an economist and can only testify to the value of using Java APIs on market forces afaict. The argument as far as I could get it from twitter was that 'a java phone was inevitable' and that Android shipping with unlicensed APIs stole and killed the market from Sun/Oracle's grasp. Showing poo poo java phones helps disprove that point. afaict from twitter Jaffe more or less said "as an economist, i think that the 37 APIs make up an intrinsic part of java" which is fairly 
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May 19, 2016 00:12
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the java strings album was a departure from the the simpler and more traditional sound of java.math none of the sun members had previous experience with string composition, and artistic disagreements made tensions in the band run high, even as the lead singer was recovering from his bad lisp in january 1995 they retreated to a small finnish cottage for two months of weed smoking and intensive work they emerged with the characteristic sound we know today; a constant and immutable element, but still full of references and playing with multilingualism the release propelled the java language to the top of the billboards and cemented it as a household name even moms and business analysts knew about "the java" love it or hate it, there can be no doubt that sun's string album has made a lasting artistic impression on later programming bands
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May 19, 2016 04:37
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authentic java can only be coded in indonesia
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May 19, 2016 12:24
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why didnt google just get real java for their lovely phone instead of making a chinese tier copy of java
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May 19, 2016 12:27
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Maximum Leader posted:why didnt google just get real java for their lovely phone instead of making a chinese tier copy of java there were negotiations, a fact that was used against google in previous trials (why would they negotiate a license if they were so sure they didn't need one?). i don't recall if we were ever told precisely why they didn't end up taking a license a reasonable guess is sun demanding that they in that case had a complete certified implementation, and since google was trying to make a blackberry clone it had to run in 64 mb of ram, making that tricky (an awful lot of bad technical decisions in android, many in dalvik, go back to it being intended to be very memory-efficient, which it never ended up being)
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May 19, 2016 13:06
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a Linux concerned with memory efficiency you say 
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May 19, 2016 15:30
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they've spent a while in this case arguing that java me was a pile of garbage and java se wouldn't work on a phone, and thus their creation of a version of java that does work on a phone is ~transformative~
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May 19, 2016 16:29
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there was a jvm on palm devices back in the mid 2000s. i mean im not trying to say it ran great or anything, but java has been on cell phones long before android. google's success in the cell phone marketsphere is entirely because of theft from apple and oracle.
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May 19, 2016 16:38
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java on palm was java me, which was a pile of garbage
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May 19, 2016 17:09
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of course android is a pile of garbage too, but it's garbage in different ways
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May 19, 2016 17:10
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google is not wrong about all mobile java being crap, and likely would have remained crap without android (not least illustrated by it remaining crap *with* android)
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May 19, 2016 18:29
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Plorkyeran posted:they've spent a while in this case arguing that java me was a pile of garbage and java se wouldn't work on a phone, and thus their creation of a version of java that does work on a phone is ~transformative~ the original design for android was blackberry which was 100% java.
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May 19, 2016 19:43
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Shaggar posted:the original design for android was blackberry which was 100% poo.
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May 19, 2016 19:51
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Probably one of the weakest quote edits I've seen in my entire life.
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May 19, 2016 20:22
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:google is not wrong about all mobile java being crap, and likely would have remained crap without android (not least illustrated by it remaining crap *with* android) nah, android java is poo poo because google sucks at optimizing it remember that android java had a random number generator weakness inherited from apache harmony for a very long time Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 20:30
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Plorkyeran posted:java on palm was java me, which was a pile of garbage well eventually it was, yes and the apis that were direct translations of palm's apis we're garbage, that's true too. like RecordStore but you also got most important good apis even back then: InputStream and OutputStream, Vector and Hashtable, Class and Object, String and Thread and Exception
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May 19, 2016 20:52
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Thread and Exception are my favorite classes
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May 19, 2016 20:54
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Shaggar posted:Thread and Exception are my favorite classes hell yeah suppose u got a method that needs to return an object. only it cant be just any kind of object, its either a string or a number or idk a java.awt.event.HierarchyListener. u cant write that in java which is bullshit but if all ur types are subclasses of throwable u can just put them all in ur signature, u just need to return with throw instead, bonus u dont have to remember to keep returning from a bunch of different methods then instead of doing some superawkward if statement on the other side u just catch the types u want instead, boom right there in the variable tldr make all ur classes subclasses of throwable just in case
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May 19, 2016 21:27
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rjmccall posted:hell yeah its been a while since i did java. you seriously cant make functions return types reference types?
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May 19, 2016 23:59
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you can but it wouldn't be statically typed like a method that returns void and then throws a bunch of stuff. lmao that would be amazing. its just like option types!
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May 20, 2016 00:02
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Java code:Java code:
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May 20, 2016 00:06
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Shaggar posted:its just like option types! ?
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May 20, 2016 02:20
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Shaggar posted:Thread and Exception are my favorite classes fun story: our old CTO believed he was not only smarter than oracle but that our measly crew of off-shore developers could implement his grand visions. one of the things he did was completely overhaul oracle's JDBC in our framework. keep in mind we run on oracle and as such are paying for oracle and get it but no we can make a better one. anyways one of our RDC classes returns null instead of throwing an exception when you attempt to read an illegal column. this is obv an ambiguous scenario because null is a valid value to return because columns can actually be null. so I opened a ticket a week ago saying this was a bug figuring engineering would close it and tell me to go gently caress myself. they didn't. they're going to change the contract to one of our core system classes and I can't loving wait for the shitshow that comes when they push that update and every single instance breaks because every single customization by services ever uses that method and isn't handling that exception. it's gonna be beautiful
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May 20, 2016 03:13
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in fact I'm gonna know who the real rear end in a top hat consultants are because their implementations WONT break meaning they were encapsulating everything in generic Exceptions which is even worse.
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May 20, 2016 03:14
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CTO was fired btw
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May 20, 2016 03:16
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rjmccall posted:hell yeah source your terrible programming quotes 
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May 20, 2016 04:45
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Shaggar posted:
i don't need two terrible programmer threads to make me question my entire existence
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May 20, 2016 05:28
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MononcQc posted:https://twitter.com/xor/status/732630055013089280 Mock Trial With J. Reinhold
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May 20, 2016 12:31
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MononcQc posted:Google lawyer just slammed the economist who said 'a java phone was inevitable success' and that android stole the thunder by not licensing by listing a long list of terrible javaphones that failed before and after android got around, and even whipped a SavaJe phone in the face of the economist to show how lovely it was apparently eh, java phones *were* successful before the iPhone made them all irrelevant
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May 20, 2016 12:34
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