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namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
your canpol gravestone reads RIP here lies the greatest mcgill grad ever

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Cultural Imperial posted:

the only way this scene gets better is when you spazz out on some stairs and throw yourself into said ocean to die of drowning

It could happen! Everything is hilly and uneven so there's better than normal odds.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Cultural Imperial posted:

your canpol gravestone reads RIP here lies the greatest mcgill grad ever

"Here lies PT6A, a oval office"

Nocturtle
Mar 17, 2007

Cultural Imperial posted:

My brother in law bought a 1500 sqft penthouse at Ubc. I sure hope hootsuite IPOs soon for his sake

I was there when UBC tore a sizeable strip off the endowment lands to build more ugly condos. The wrong part of the country burned down imo.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Nocturtle posted:

I was there when UBC tore a sizeable strip off the endowment lands to build more ugly condos. The wrong part of the country burned down imo.

:agreed:

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

PT6A posted:

$180/month on wine is a lot?

That's a good bottle of wine every other day even with Sweden's insanely high prices. :psyduck:

TeenageArchipelago
Jul 23, 2013


Rime posted:

If you kill yourself due to the crushing poverty imposed by our society and you don't first try to take out a few politicians who put you there, or at least Jimmy Patterson, you're basically a retard. :colbert:

note that this is how WWI started. Kind of.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Xoidanor posted:

That's a good bottle of wine every other day even with Sweden's insanely high prices. :psyduck:

A good (not great, even) bottle of wine runs significantly more than than $12 in Canada. I'll admit I overestimated my own consumption by a little bit, but that's still not that much. That's about 9 good bottles of wine per month, or 250 mL (2 glasses) per day. That's on the high end of what you should be regularly consuming, but it's still not particularly extravagant. The cellphone bill, for example, seems more out-of-line to me.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

I hear you wish to ball, adventurer..
On decent phones with most telecoms now to pay the least for your phone you have to take a 2 year contract with a minimum monthly bill of $80 before tax. Also most telecoms have really low data caps so there's a lot of folks going over theirs these days. When I go over my data cap my monthly bill comes out to like $101 after tax.

Le Saboteur fucked around with this message at 21:33 on May 19, 2016

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Le Saboteur posted:

On decent phones with most telecoms now to pay the least for your phone you have to take a 2 year contract with a minimum monthly bill of $80 before tax. Also most telecoms have really low data caps so there's a lot of folks going over theres these days. When I go over my data cap my monthly bill comes out to like $101 after tax.

So? You're amortizing the cost of that new phone over the contract period. My cellphone bill is just shy of $100 as well, but it's no mystery why: I picked a huge plan, and I bought a pricey phone at a discount. I can bitch about the cost of cellphone plans in Canada in general, but I can't say that I'm getting ripped off any more than any other Canadian. I could've kept my old plan and stripped back my plan and it'd be half.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

I hear you wish to ball, adventurer..

PT6A posted:

So? You're amortizing the cost of that new phone over the contract period. My cellphone bill is just shy of $100 as well, but it's no mystery why: I picked a huge plan, and I bought a pricey phone at a discount. I can bitch about the cost of cellphone plans in Canada in general, but I can't say that I'm getting ripped off any more than any other Canadian. I could've kept my old plan and stripped back my plan and it'd be half.

I mean yeah, the girl could have got a cheap rear end flip phone or something but there's not a lot of options out there if you want a modern phone and a cheap plan is all I'm saying.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Le Saboteur posted:

I mean yeah, the girl could have got a cheap rear end flip phone or something but there's not a lot of options out there if you want a modern phone and a cheap plan is all I'm saying.

You could just buy a phone out of contract. There are plenty of very competent smartphones between cheap-rear end flip-phone and iPhone 6s.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

You can absolutely have a modern smart phone and pay less than $50 a month. I've got some sort of samsung something or other, it was free with my plan which is about $35 a month. As long as you don't get data phones can be really cheap, and free wifi is basically everywhere.

\/ If you can't check facebook while driving through a rural area you might as well be living in a cave.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 19, 2016

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
I bought an iphone 5S for like $250-ish from someone on the forums when the 6 was just released.

I pay $5 a month for 250 text messages (I usually use 200 or so) and am on a 1c/min evenings and weekends plan, so my mom knows to only call me after 8.

Usually a $100 card from Rogers lasts me about 6 months.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

HookShot posted:

I bought an iphone 5S for like $250-ish from someone on the forums when the 6 was just released.

I pay $5 a month for 250 text messages (I usually use 200 or so) and am on a 1c/min evenings and weekends plan, so my mom knows to only call me after 8.

Usually a $100 card from Rogers lasts me about 6 months.

Living the dream brah, yo can you enable a hotspot I'm on data. Ma I said don't call me until after 8 WTF you calling me at 6 thirty

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


I'm not going to bother with a phone once I move back to Canada, poo poo's not worth it. I work in an area where I can't have a phone, most of the remaining time I'll be at home where I'll have a landline, and any old cell that holds a charge can dial 911 for emergences when I'm not at either.

e. :goonsay:

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

jm20 posted:

Living the dream brah, yo can you enable a hotspot I'm on data. Ma I said don't call me until after 8 WTF you calling me at 6 thirty

Yes talking to my mom an hour and a half earlier when it's less convenient for both of us is definitely worth hundreds of extra dollars a year.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

Look at all these scrubs that don't know how to get on a Saskatchewan plan from out of province. :smug:

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓ð’‰𒋫 𒆷ð’€𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 ð’®𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle30068252/


Can't afford to go to a dentist but owns a cat. You loving white people

$17 for a girl's haircut is pretty impressive though. Pretty sure my wife spends closer to $71.

large hands
Jan 24, 2006

HookShot posted:

Yes talking to my mom an hour and a half earlier when it's less convenient for both of us is definitely worth hundreds of extra dollars a year.

that guy always says he makes a lot of money so it's no big deal to him

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

McGavin posted:

Look at all these scrubs that don't know how to get on a Saskatchewan plan from out of province. :smug:

Stop ruining my telecom dividends you monster.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

large hands posted:

that guy always says he makes a lot of money so it's no big deal to him

I probably make more than he does, I like to waste my money on poo poo that I'll actually use.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

HookShot posted:

I probably make more than he does, I like to waste my money on poo poo that I'll actually use.

Have you considered a million dollar home in the suburbs yet? This is the Canadian dream.

Vehementi
Jul 25, 2003

YOSPOS

UnfortunateSexFart posted:

$17 for a girl's haircut is pretty impressive though. Pretty sure my wife spends closer to $71.

It was per month, so $51 quarterly is what they said

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

jm20 posted:

Have you considered a million dollar home in the suburbs yet? This is the Canadian dream.
I might waste my money, but not that badly.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/the-market/new-mortgage-rules-aimed-at-preventing-market-slowdown-documents-show/article30099264/

quote:

Ottawa aimed to tread lightly with new mortgage rules, documents show

Ottawa was concerned about the potential of triggering a housing market slowdown when it opted only to modestly increase minimum down payments on more expensive homes late last year, new documents show.

“Measures are needed to limit risk in the housing market, reduce taxpayer exposure and enhance long-term stability, but without being a significant drag on the housing market and economy,” Department of Finance officials wrote in an internal memo to Minister of Finance Bill Morneau last November, little more than a month after the federal election.

In December, Mr. Morneau announced the government would increase the minimum down payment for insured mortgages from 5 per cent to 10 per cent for the portion of the home price between $500,000 and $1-million, saying the change would affect an estimated 1 per cent of the country’s housing market.

In the memo, obtained by The Globe and Mail as part of an Access to Information request, federal officials raised concerns about the “pronounced increase” in the volume of insured mortgages with low down payments in Canada’s two most expensive cities, citing a 20.9-per-cent jump in Vancouver and a 9.4-per-cent increase in Toronto in the first three quarters of 2015 compared to the same period a year earlier. That contrasted with an increase of just 3 per cent in the volume of high-ratio mortgages in other parts of the country.

“Despite prior actions, house prices and activity have continued to rise, particularly in Toronto and Vancouver, and ongoing low interest rates have led to further increases in household debt,” the memo states. It added that the fact the boom was concentrated in just two local markets, “contrasts with the broad-based recovery following the Great Recession.”

Internal calculations show the government expected the average minimum down payment to increase to 6.1 per cent in Vancouver, 6 per cent in Toronto and 5.9 per cent in Calgary, Ottawa and Halifax. Nationally, it expected the down payment on more expensive homes to increase by an average of $5,800.

The new down-payment rules would “target key markets where risks have been rising … and the most vulnerable borrowers,” officials wrote, but would have “limited impact on overall employment and economic activity.”

“As a result, the expected short-term impact of these policy actions is expected to be minimal and manageable.”

Federal officials have also looked into the trend of buyers borrowing for down payments on homes worth more than $1-million.

Since homes above that price are not eligible for mortgage insurance, buyers typically have to pay a minimum of 20 per cent to qualify for a mortgage. In a memo from March, 2015, Department of Finance officials wrote that the requirement for buyers of homes worth more than $1-million to have down payments of at least 20 per cent “does not prevent down payments from being sourced from borrowed money.”

The heavily redacted memo, which finance officials labelled as “for information,” does not detail whether the government is concerned about the practice of borrowing for down payments on expensive homes.

It cites a consumer survey by the Canadian Association of Accredited Mortgage Professionals (the mortgage broker lobby group that has since changed its name to Mortgage Professionals Canada) that found borrowed money makes up about 28 per cent of down-payment funds for first-time buyers, a proportion it says has been stable since the 1980s.

So, there you have it, we have no sub-prime guys, when are government is acknowledging it permits defacto sub prime lending.

strongest, most enviable banking system in the world u guys

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
Keep lending to sub prime borrowers that are borrowing to qualify to borrow. Where have we seen this before.........................................

tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006
Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.
But this is Canada, so the outcome won't be like what happened in America because the banks won't fail. Prices will still go down.

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive
not from canadar, but it ought to be

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

jm20 posted:

Keep lending to sub prime borrowers that are borrowing to qualify to borrow. Where have we seen this before.........................................

Plus the whole hilarity how people are loaning money just to make the downpayment requirement.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Rennie has been talking about this for years now.

From 2014:

quote:


http://www.straight.com/news/646311/bob-rennie-speaks-about-housing-affordability-wealth-seniors-immigration-and-david-suzuki

Older people in Greater Vancouver are sitting on phenomenal housing wealth—and this will transform the residential real-estate market in the coming years.

That was one of the key messages delivered by Vancouver condo king Bob Rennie in an hourlong address to the Urban Development Institute on Thursday (May 15).

"The pattern that we should all be watching is the movement of this wealth by the living, which may be more important than the transfer of wealth by the dead,” Rennie told an audience of about 1,000 people at the Hyatt Regency Hotel. “We really do not have a precedent to fully understand this aging and prosperous demographic."

He said that research by Andy Ramlo and Ryan Berlin at the Urban Futures Institute has revealed there are more than 284,000 households in the region with people between 55 to 74 years old.

Within this cohort, 128,000 have clear title on their homes. The value of this "clear-title" equity is $113.4 billion.

Meanwhile, seniors 75 years and older have clear title to homes worth more than $50 billion. Their numbers are expected to increase by 85 percent in the next 15 years.

"What will be the impact of $163.4 billion in equity in the hands of an aging population in our marketplace?" Rennie asked.

In addition, he said there are another 88,000 people between 55 and 74 who have their name on the title of a family home.

In light of this research, Rennie questioned the prevailing notion that incomes are the only thing to consider in assessing the state of Greater Vancouver's housing market.

Equity is driving purchases

He suggested that not nearly enough attention is being paid to equity, pointing out that 69 percent of all sales are to existing homeowners.

Among first-time buyers from his company, he noted, 40 percent are receiving help from parents and grandparents when paying a deposit and a down payment.

Remarkably, 60 percent of first-time buyers were living with their family before buying, and 72 percent were between 20 and 34 years old.

Rennie said that his company’s surveys have also revealed that “location” is the top-ranked consideration for people buying a home, followed by “price”, “transit”, “building amenities”, and “green elements”.

“Surprisingly, even those who do not own vehicles ranked green as last,” he said. “First-time buyers are not philanthropists out to save the planet the day they are buying a home.”

Home ownership isn’t as elusive to younger people as many might think. According to Rennie, 43 percent of people from 25 to 34 own a home in the Lower Mainland. In Richmond, 64 percent of 25- to 34-year-olds own homes.

That compares to just 34 percent of this age group in Toronto.

...

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008


I really loved growing up poor and financially strained, working hard in school while working a job throughout, to get a decent career afterwards to escape my previous poverty style living.

Now I am at the top of my peers in financial wealth and stability, because everyone wanted the white picket fence, 2 cars, big suburb house. Meanwhile I still live like I'm in poverty to save my money for a piece of land in the wilderness where I can grow my own food. I will likely buy this piece of land before even considering owning a house in the suburb.

The writing is on the wall, we want all those fancy things that our parents/rich people had? Prepare to live in slavery for your entire life, there is no way our generation can afford a comparable lifestyle as our parents, not when everyone in the buying chain of housing(bank, real estate agent, dude who makes the house buying app, etc.) wants a cut of the minute steak that is your salary.

Nothing is wrong with wanting nice things, we should even aspire to get everyone up to a decent standard of living. Capitalism is dying, and we are inhaling all of the corpse fumes.

This country's entire situation is incredibly depressing when suicide looks like a decent and practical replacement for retirement.

Also I stopped my brain meds to save a bit more money :unsmigghh:

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Except the things our parents had were lovely to begin with. Why the gently caress would I want a suburban house? I've got to drive everywhere, and I've got to pay some lackwit to mow my lawn or shovel snow when I go away. Why do people pay extra money for more aggravation and responsibility?

And my car could probably go get hosed if transit weren't such complete poo poo in Canada. Even our "good" transit systems are an embarrassment.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 20, 2016

large hands
Jan 24, 2006

Fried Watermelon posted:

.

Also I stopped my brain meds to save a bit more money :unsmigghh:

you should probably reconsider that choice

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum

Fried Watermelon posted:

I really loved growing up poor and financially strained, working hard in school while working a job throughout, to get a decent career afterwards to escape my previous poverty style living.

Now I am at the top of my peers in financial wealth and stability, because everyone wanted the white picket fence, 2 cars, big suburb house. Meanwhile I still live like I'm in poverty to save my money for a piece of land in the wilderness where I can grow my own food. I will likely buy this piece of land before even considering owning a house in the suburb.

The writing is on the wall, we want all those fancy things that our parents/rich people had? Prepare to live in slavery for your entire life, there is no way our generation can afford a comparable lifestyle as our parents, not when everyone in the buying chain of housing(bank, real estate agent, dude who makes the house buying app, etc.) wants a cut of the minute steak that is your salary.

Nothing is wrong with wanting nice things, we should even aspire to get everyone up to a decent standard of living. Capitalism is dying, and we are inhaling all of the corpse fumes.

This country's entire situation is incredibly depressing when suicide looks like a decent and practical replacement for retirement.

It's funny. I met up with an old friend yesterday and we spent about 6 hours talking about the state of the world. He's doing very well, working in finance and influencing policy back east, but even he agrees that we're headed to a very dark place very fast and doesn't see a lot of hope.

He independently shared my belief that, never having suffered any form of war or civil strife or natural disaster, Canadians are going to suffer the worst of any western nation in the decades ahead. :smith:

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Rime posted:

It's funny. I met up with an old friend yesterday and we spent about 6 hours talking about the state of the world. He's doing very well, working in finance and influencing policy back east, but even he agrees that we're headed to a very dark place very fast and doesn't see a lot of hope.

He independently shared my belief that, never having suffered any form of war or civil strife or natural disaster, Canadians are going to suffer the worst of any western nation in the decades ahead. :smith:

be specific m'lud

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle30102455/

quote:

Bidding war blues: 'Are you kidding me?'

It’s time to be honest with millennials about their chances of owning a house in their city of choice.

You may be shut out of the market, even if you’re hard-working and fortunate enough to have help from your parents. It’s happening to Jessica Kushner, a 27-year-old who works as a subway train operator for the Toronto Transit Commission and lives at home. She wants to buy a house in the city with her fiancé, but hasn’t been able to keep up with rising prices: After bidding on two houses and twice losing out to much higher offers, she’s feeling stressed out and psyched out.

“I feel like every day I’m not looking at houses, I’m literally missing out because they are going up in price so fast,” she said in an interview. “I can’t even keep up now. I’m in over my head.”

Buying a house today in cities with hot housing is way too big of a deal. It’s like running a marathon, or mixed martial arts. It’s not normal, but people play along because home ownership is a Canadian obsession. Ms. Kushner is a true believer, but can’t get in the door and is getting increasingly frustrated about it.

She got our attention by offering to be part of an online Paycheque Profile, a feature we’re running on how young adults are managing their finances (check out our Gen Y Money page). Here’s a sentiment in her e-mail that demands attention: “I grew up in this city and I work in this city. It seems only fair that I should be able to afford a house here.”

Young adults have heard endlessly about the joys of home ownership and many naturally want to buy themselves. But day by day and bidding war by bidding war, they’re being priced out of the market unless their parents have unlimited resources or they work in six-figure professions.

Ms. Kushner is new in her job and on a track that will see her earnings rise steadily over the next two years or so. She estimates she’ll be earning at an annual rate of $60,000 to $70,000 by the end of this year (her fiancé earns a similar amount), with the variation accounted for by the number of hours she works. There’s also help from her parents, which isn’t unusual in the Toronto market these days.

And yet, the market doesn’t seem to have room for her. “It’s depressing,” she says. “I’m working with this idea in my head that you work hard, pay your taxes and you get to live here [in Toronto].”

The two houses she and her fiancé tried for are in a midtown neighbourhood on the west side of the city. The first one was listed at $589,000 and sold for $730,000, while the second was listed at $749,000 and sold for $840,000. “By no means are these the houses I dreamed of living in,” she said. “They’re small, they need work, they have tiny lots. Only a few years ago, they were selling for less than half-a-million dollars.”

This is what you get when a city’s real estate market is on the boil – people fighting to get into homes they might well outgrow in a matter of years, if not months. One of the houses Ms. Kushner bid on was roughly 1,000 square feet in size and had only two bedrooms. The squeeze would have been tighter if she followed up on her intention to rent out a basement apartment.

We want young people to have the chance to own their own home, but we also want them to be realistic about where they’ll live and not feel otherwise entitled. Ms. Kushner’s living at home and says she saves almost all her paycheques after the cost of running her car. “I don’t pay rent and I barely have time to spend money. I work almost 60 hours a week.”

That’s part of the reason she’s not keen on renting – she feels she has sacrificed for a house and is ready to get on with the next phase of her life. She’s also not big on condos, but is starting to think about them. Her flexibility ends at long commutes from way outside the city, as some of her colleagues at work do. “If I have to live at home forever, so be it,” she said.

Ms. Kushner wants governments to do something about unaffordable housing for young people like her, possibly by putting restrictions on purchases by foreign buyers. But she also recognizes that the market may be moving out of reach. She recalls her sister buying a house two years ago and having her mom encourage her to do likewise despite a cost that even then seemed high.

She told her mom she’d wait. “I remember thinking, there’s going to be a bubble anyways, I’m not desperate. Stupid me.”

------------------------------------------

Jessica Kushner, 27, talks about trying to buy a first house in the city:

On trying to save while prices soar: “The more you save, the further behind you’re getting.”

On bidding $630,000 for a house listed at $589,000: “Here I am thinking, I’m giving above asking and that should be good enough. But then it goes for $730,000, and I’m having a heart attack now. I’m like, are you kidding me?”

On bidding $790,000 for a house listed at $749,000 and sold ultimately for $840,000: “That was really disappointing because I’ve looked at a few more houses since and they are priced way above what I think they’re worth – at or close to $1-million. It’s crazy to think, but I might very well have to buy a $1-million house. That’s wild.”

On the pressure to make quick decisions: “Literally, I walked through [one particular house] once and had to decide whether I wanted to buy it. You spend less time looking at a house than you do buying a car.”

On her parents’ help in buying: “Otherwise, I would have no chance.”


hahahah I hope everyone thinks like this. It's gonna be so loving awesome when the majority of people are owning houses they can't afford.

Brannock
Feb 9, 2006

by exmarx
Fallen Rib

quote:

It’s like running a marathon, or mixed martial arts. It’s not normal

Hrm

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum
Concrete: The Canadian economy is irreparably headed for the shitter and most people in Ottawa know it. The housing bubble is going to torpedo the west, but they can't do anything to stop it. We have little native industry left, are decades behind other countries when it comes to R&D in any field, and there is no political will to improve the matter because it might risk the status quo. Just to keep extraction industries functioning we are lowering our safety standards to levels that developing nations would balk at.

Cynical: The rise of megacorporatism has resulted in the capture of government by monied rather than public interests, resulting in top brass decisions like the sale of Hydro 1 for the benefit of lobbyists, while lower departments roll out plans like Ontario's green energy independence initiative (4+ Billion to improve energy infrastructure and replace 50% of vehicles with electric in 15 years). Burning cash and public wellbeing on both ends.

Dark: Climate change has the serious potential to wipe out Canadian food security entirely by rendering our major producing areas useless by about 2030. We will be hit late, so our resources will be stretched thin by pressure from nations already crumbling to these circumstances, such as Syria.

Working age Canadians have, on average, never known a greater struggle in their lives than being a bit low on truck equity. Throw decades of low-un employment, rocketing food prices, and crumbling public institutions at them? The country will probably bulkanize and one day it won't be "lol gently caress Alberta", it will be "gently caress Albertans".

This is, again, coming from a wealthy and highly educated man with his finger on the pulse of the nation. :shrug:

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namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Rime posted:

Concrete: The Canadian economy is irreparably headed for the shitter and most people in Ottawa know it.

Give me more detail man

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