Strike! The game of Tactical Combat and Heedless Adventure

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homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Carrasco posted:

Two questions:

1) Is everything on the Downloads page up to date? I want to try the system before I buy, but it says on that page the downloads were last updated September 12, and here in the OP the game was finalized this January. (In particular, are the three reference pages up to date, because I feel like even after getting the book I'd be consulting those all the time. Hell, I already printed them out and paperclipped them to my favorite DM screen.)

2) So as I've been talking about in the chat thread, the gimmick of the game I want to run is inspired by Bastion--namely, parts of the map are missing to begin with and fill in when you move. I'm modeling this with Legos--the players get a big bag of blocks and get to put one down for every square of their movement, which also lets them do things like spend their movement to make cover or ramps or stuff--but the thing I haven't figured is what to do with forced movement in this system. I don't want it to be an autokill move every time they slide an enemy into empty space, but I also want the PCs to enjoy their forced movement powers. Since I also want at least some of the enemies to be able to shape the terrain the way the PCs can, maybe forced movement would just be a way of getting a chance to add more blocks since you're forcing the enemy to raise some ground or die, but that seems a little counterintuitive. Any thoughts?

I think 1) enemies create safe blocks when forced-moved over blank, 2) some enemies can create more complex terrain as move actions, 3) players can take Strikes to add hindering (as opposed to difficult) terrain, maybe getting some items later that allow them to add a space or two of hindering terrain per session.

# ? May 11, 2016 13:46

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# ? May 23, 2024 09:50

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Carrasco posted:

Two questions:

1) Is everything on the Downloads page up to date? I want to try the system before I buy, but it says on that page the downloads were last updated September 12, and here in the OP the game was finalized this January. (In particular, are the three reference pages up to date, because I feel like even after getting the book I'd be consulting those all the time. Hell, I already printed them out and paperclipped them to my favorite DM screen.)

The reference pages are up to date. The game was basically final at that point, barring a few typos and stuff. Any further delays were just some hiccups getting the print versions out, which was done in December.

The only thing on that page that is out of date is the three adventures, and I'm not sure how much the out-of-dateness matters for those. Maybe a pre-gen character or two had a power tweaked later?

# ? May 11, 2016 14:29

Otherkinsey Scale: Jul 17, 2012; Just a little bit of sunshine!

Jimbozig posted:

The reference pages are up to date. The game was basically final at that point, barring a few typos and stuff. Any further delays were just some hiccups getting the print versions out, which was done in December.

The only thing on that page that is out of date is the three adventures, and I'm not sure how much the out-of-dateness matters for those. Maybe a pre-gen character or two had a power tweaked later?

Good to know, thanks!

homullus posted:

I think 1) enemies create safe blocks when forced-moved over blank, 2) some enemies can create more complex terrain as move actions, 3) players can take Strikes to add hindering (as opposed to difficult) terrain, maybe getting some items later that allow them to add a space or two of hindering terrain per session.

These are some good suggestions.

ElegantFugue posted:

What is the fiction behind the world rising up? Is it based on the players' presence? If so, I'd say let the players build out certain 'safe' types of terrain as needed, and let them spend limited resources (whether AP's, Miss tokens, or some new 'build' resource like unusual bricks or more hazardous terrain features like a puddle of lava or spikes) if they want to instead build out more exotic terrain.
You'd have to make sure you figure out a way for players to get more of whatever resource they'll use. Maybe allow players to give the DM control over what terrain pops up when THEY get force-moved in exchange for some random build bricks, or something.

The fictional reasoning is that the game starts with an apocalypse, and being able to manipulate the blasted-into-chunks world by willpower alone is a side effect of that. I haven't nailed down the particulars--either the pieces of land react to anyone's will now, or the chunks are reacting to a certain item, or the PCs and whoever else can do it as a a result of having been in a "safe zone" during the apocalypse. After this discussion I'm thinking it's just something anyone can do, for simplicity's sake. Although there is some plot potential in linking it to an item--the bad guys taking their little macguffin and leaving them to starve on a tiny bit of rock is too good to throw away outright.

Either way, I wasn't planning on having build bricks be a limited resource (well, I suppose I only have so many Legos). Although that might be a good idea, skinning it as "there are only so many usable bits in the immediate area". Which in a chase scenario would reward the PCs for getting somewhere ahead of the enemies or vice versa--with enough time to prepare they could sculpt the battlefield completely and leave nothing else for the opposing party to use.

# ? May 11, 2016 15:45

ElegantFugue: Jun 5, 2012

I suggested making only unusual terrain limited, for balance purposes. Shoving normally just brings up plain boring terrain with no features, but expending the limited resources would let you, say, decide that you want the space you're shoving that guy into to have a pool of acid he'll fall into or a corner he'd be trapped against. It'd be adding a new subsystem that might not actually be fun, though.

# ? May 11, 2016 18:13

ElegantFugue: Jun 5, 2012

The book says using a Miss token on a 1 will hit, but still give you a strike. Should enemy/environment miss triggers also still activate in such a situation?

# ? May 12, 2016 03:01

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

I don't believe so, the attack still hits, the Strike gain is just a special property of the miss token usage. I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong though.

# ? May 12, 2016 03:37

ZeeToo: Feb 20, 2008; I'm a kitty!

ElegantFugue posted:

The book says using a Miss token on a 1 will hit, but still give you a strike. Should enemy/environment miss triggers also still activate in such a situation?

The way I read it, it's treated as a 3 in all ways except you also take a strike.

# ? May 12, 2016 03:47

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

I feel dumb asking this, but I've played a lot of 4e lately and I might have the two systems mixed up; Can Goons/Stooges crit? I didn't think they could but I can't actually find that anywhere in the book so I might just be wrong.

# ? May 13, 2016 18:40

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Countblanc posted:

I feel dumb asking this, but I've played a lot of 4e lately and I might have the two systems mixed up; Can Goons/Stooges crit? I didn't think they could but I can't actually find that anywhere in the book so I might just be wrong.

That's not a rule. They can crit.

# ? May 14, 2016 00:38

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Any premade adventures out for this rulebook?

# ? May 18, 2016 01:26

Auralsaurus Flex: Aug 3, 2012

Yes, although the free sample adventure, reskinned three different ways on the game's downloads page, is out of date according to Jimbozig.

# ? May 18, 2016 04:14

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Auralsaurus Flex posted:

Yes, although the free sample adventure, reskinned three different ways on the game's downloads page, is out of date according to Jimbozig.

Coolio.

Is Strike! on some kind of free license for 3rd party, btw?

# ? May 18, 2016 04:20

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

You can make whatever you want for it, yes. My material sort of exists in some quasi-unofficial realm since I actually did work on Strike but I've asked Jim before and he seemed down with people making whatever they wanted for it.

# ? May 18, 2016 04:30

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Auralsaurus Flex posted:

the free sample adventure, reskinned three different ways on the game's downloads page, is out of date according to Jimbozig.

I don't think it is seriously out of date. I haven't checked. I would guess maybe a pre-gen character or two got an extra class feature or something (thinking of the Duelist in particular). Anyway, that is more of a sample scenario, since I provide less info and leave more to the GM than an "adventure" implies. It's got a few encounters pre-written, and the intention is for the rest to be improvised, so you can jump right in and play with no prep. If you're up for that, I recommend them.

Covok posted:

Is Strike! on some kind of free license for 3rd party, btw?

No license needed - just write stuff. If you want explicit permission, just ask me - I'm happy to give it. I can also provide links to the icons I use, and maybe some chart templates if you use InDesign. If I like what you've made, I'll link it on my website and tweet about it and stuff. I'm completely open to people making cool new stuff for Strike! I just don't think you need a license. There are plenty of Apocalypse World hacks without that needing a license.

Update time!

I was working on a thing inspired by Monster Hunter, which I had intended to be a mini-expansion, but I have instead been incredibly productive over the past 10 days and have written up 72 new monsters. Which puts me past "$4 mini-expansion" and getting close to "full-on monster manual" territory. Countblanc and I are working on some new Classes and I have some half-written item crafting stuff that I had also intended to be a mini-expansion but would fit very well in a "new player options" type of book with the new Classes and would also interlock with the Monster Hunter thing. So that's where we're at: expansion books coming. It's not what I expected, honestly. I thought I would make a few monsters and items for a quick mini-expansion and then do a big X-COM themed book for my summer project, but I've learned that I shouldn't argue with my productivity. If this is what I can spend a lot of time on, then this is what I need to be doing, and I'll do it well. Right now, I'm hoping to get two books - a Monster Manual with a Monster Hunter-inspired setting, and a sort of "PHB2" thing with 6-10 new classes and other cool customization stuff. Once I figure out exactly what is going to get done and get further along in the writing process, I'll work on putting together a Kickstarter so I can pay Ferrinus to make new class art and find an artist to draw me a lot of monsters.

As for why there weren't any mini-expansions in March or April, it's because I was busy as all hell with my "real jobs," was teaching during my best writing hours (the morning), and couldn't bring myself to sit down and do more work at night before bed. I tried guilt-tripping myself, but it didn't work. Which is why I'm thrilled to have managed so much work this past 10 days. I timed it, and the average monster takes me 15-20 minutes to write, so 72 of them adds up to somewhere between 18 and 24 hours of work. If I can manage that pace over the whole summer, I'll get an awful lot written!

# ? May 18, 2016 05:16

CuddlyZombie: Nov 6, 2005; I wuv your brains.

A set of monster-hunter-themed splats sounds incredibly kickass. I take it though that it's not going to be out anywhere close to the near-future, though, if another KS is involved. :smith:

# ? May 18, 2016 07:21

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

I admit I'm curious to know what sort of design space you're planning to explore as far as new classes go, the ones in the main book seem to cover a fairly robust spread of the highlights of 4E mechanics and playstyle-wise with the Psion being something that covers more of an interrupt/reaction-based class, so what else is there that you feel you didn't adequately cover on the first pass?

# ? May 18, 2016 07:46

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

Kai Tave posted:

I admit I'm curious to know what sort of design space you're planning to explore as far as new classes go, the ones in the main book seem to cover a fairly robust spread of the highlights of 4E mechanics and playstyle-wise with the Psion being something that covers more of an interrupt/reaction-based class, so what else is there that you feel you didn't adequately cover on the first pass?

I'll never reveal the wu-tang secret.

e: ok real answer there's actually a lot of unexplored design space if you look at not just when powers activate or what they do, but who is using them and how. also things like limits on powers to make them more powerful (ie the Magician). most of the classes I've been working on the past month have been toying with those ideas and others still are just excuses to play with and revisit preexisting mechanics, but we havent started playtesting yet so I don't want to give too much away since it's impossible to say what actually works and is interesting versus what sounds good on paper.

Countblanc fucked around with this message at 08:57 on May 18, 2016

# ? May 18, 2016 08:43

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Countblanc posted:

I'll never reveal the wu-tang secret.

e: ok real answer there's actually a lot of unexplored design space if you look at not just when powers activate or what they do, but who is using them and how. also things like limits on powers to make them more powerful (ie the Magician). most of the classes I've been working on the past month have been toying with those ideas and others still are just excuses to play with and revisit preexisting mechanics, but we havent started playtesting yet so I don't want to give too much away since it's impossible to say what actually works and is interesting versus what sounds good on paper.

Sure sure, I wasn't expecting full-on spoilers or anything, it's just one of the first things I thought of when I made myself really sit down and crack into Strike! on a "what is this doing and why" level. It's easy to see in some cases...over here is the stance-based class, over there is the Avenger, thataway is the guy that summons things...and in other cases some of the design space has been shunted into roles, like the Defender. Obviously you don't have to stick with "like this one thing in 4E but" either.

# ? May 18, 2016 09:10

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

If you're in the mood for giving me exactly what I want, some treasure and traps would go really nicely with those monsters

# ? May 18, 2016 17:30

Superstring: Jul 22, 2007; I thought I was going insane for a second.

Let the splatbook bloatening begin!

Kidding, of course. Looking forward to new classes. I've noticed recently how the current classes are pretty hard defined as melee or ranged. I hope some of the new ones have options for both.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:35

Scyther: Dec 29, 2010

On one hand I'm a bit sad that there's hasn't been more mini expansions, but full expansion books is pretty drat cool too. My wallet is ready.

Superstring posted:

Let the splatbook bloatening begin!

Kidding, of course. Looking forward to new classes. I've noticed recently how the current classes are pretty hard defined as melee or ranged. I hope some of the new ones have options for both.

Seconding this.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:37

5-Headed Snake God: Jun 12, 2008; Do you see how he's a cat?

I always like having more class options, but to be fair, the base game does have a couple of classes that can do both melee and ranged. Necromancer and Buddies both come to mind.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:42

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Every ranged class is melee with the Melee Shooter feat.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:42

Scyther: Dec 29, 2010

homullus posted:

Every ranged class is melee with the Melee Shooter feat.

That is a pretty good point.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:45

KittyEmpress: Dec 30, 2012; Jam Buddies

homullus posted:

Every ranged class is melee with the Melee Shooter feat.

Where is my 'throw lightsbaer' feat, to turn every melee class ranged?

# ? May 18, 2016 19:51

Otherkinsey Scale: Jul 17, 2012; Just a little bit of sunshine!

Jimbozig posted:

Once I figure out exactly what is going to get done and get further along in the writing process, I'll work on putting together a Kickstarter so I can pay Ferrinus to make new class art and find an artist to draw me a lot of monsters.

When you do the Kickstarter, I assume one of the levels would be some kind of bundle that includes the original book? I missed the original Kickstarter, and for various circumstances (mainly to do with moving and all related complications) may not have the chance to get the game for a while anyway, so that would be extremely relevant to my interests even if it's not for a while.

# ? May 18, 2016 19:54

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

KittyEmpress posted:

Where is my 'throw lightsbaer' feat, to turn every melee class ranged?

Blaster role with the beam blaster feat/option. :hellyeah:

# ? May 18, 2016 20:05

Superstring: Jul 22, 2007; I thought I was going insane for a second.

homullus posted:

Every ranged class is melee with the Melee Shooter feat.

I was thinking more the other way round. Now, I'm aware that the following example isn't exactly the system's fault, but I think it's indicative of a bit of a blindspot. I'm in a pretty awesome Star Wars game at the moment. When it began I decided to go for a Duelist/Defender combo to try it out.

However, because the 'flavor' of Star Wars involves pewpew laserguns, I noticed that my character was having a really rough go at actually doing stuff where the baseline encounter involved lots of ranged 10 Stormtroopers at a double move, or further, distance away at the start of an encounter. I eventually switched to Archer and never looked back, because Archers are awesome.

Now, you could say that not every class should be expected to be viable in every game and I would agree that is a valid interpretation. I think it would be a bit of a shame though.

# ? May 18, 2016 20:09

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

When I wrote up the Psion I did so explicitly thinking the game needed more hybrid melee/ranged options, so I definitely agree that there's room in the system for it. Of the three classes I'm working on right now two have options for both (and the third one plays with range and LoS in weird ways so it's hard to quantify it as either), though one of those two is basically a mini-class. Either way definitely expect to see some more flexible classes, but there's at least a few which will probably be more dedicated.

# ? May 18, 2016 20:20

Auralsaurus Flex: Aug 3, 2012

I like what I'm hearing so far, but while we're voicing our desires regarding what we want to see, please tell me you're at least trying to work out a Lurker class or role for inclusion the new material. :ohdear:

# ? May 18, 2016 20:44

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Scyther posted:

On one hand I'm a bit sad that there's hasn't been more mini expansions, but full expansion books is pretty drat cool too. My wallet is ready.

Me too - I wish I'd had the time, but I can't exactly complain about being busy getting lots of money from private tutoring either. November/December and March/April are the busiest times of year.

Maleketh posted:

I always like having more class options, but to be fair, the base game does have a couple of classes that can do both melee and ranged. Necromancer and Buddies both come to mind.

Yep. There are 7 options for each (depending on how you classify the Summoner).
Ranged include: Archer, Magician, Bombardier, Warlord, Necromancer, Buddies, and Summoner (sort of).
Melee include: Duelist, Shapechanger, Martial Artist, Necromancer, Warlord, Buddies, and Summoner (sort of).

Carrasco posted:

When you do the Kickstarter, I assume one of the levels would be some kind of bundle that includes the original book? I missed the original Kickstarter, and for various circumstances (mainly to do with moving and all related complications) may not have the chance to get the game for a while anyway, so that would be extremely relevant to my interests even if it's not for a while.

Definitely.

Gort posted:

If you're in the mood for giving me exactly what I want, some treasure and traps would go really nicely with those monsters

I'd like to, but to be honest, I don't even know what to write for traps. Every time I read reddit threads on "best D&D traps," I find them to be complete garbage, full of unusable nonsense. If you could give me a reference for the sort of thing you're looking for, I'll happily take a look and think about it.

Auralsaurus Flex posted:

I like what I'm hearing so far, but while we're voicing our desires regarding what we want to see, please tell me you're at least trying to work out a Lurker class or role for inclusion the new material.

What would a Lurker do that you can't get from picking the stealthy options on a Rogue? What's the conceptual space there?

# ? May 19, 2016 00:17

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

As someone who's tried (not very successfully) to explore the idea of a Lurker for Strike!, in 4E parlance a Lurker isn't really about being sneaky necessarily. Some Lurkers are, but others are like Gargoyles whose Lurker schtick is turning into durable stone skin forms while they build up for devastating pounce attacks, or the Bulette whose Lurker behavior is based on burrowing underground before popping out and landsharking someone.

In other words, a Lurker's behavior/design space doesn't really require stealth per se, it's more of an on/off pattern of high defense (in some fashion) but low damage followed by high burst damage but a window of vulnerability. The Rogue does have some of that, but I think there's still some potentially interesting design space to explore with the idea of a class that alternates between two distinct modes in combat.

# ? May 19, 2016 02:45

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Where are the rules for making monsters? I saw sample monsters, but not rules for building them. Getting deja vu so, if I asked before, my bad.

# ? May 21, 2016 18:12

Scyther: Dec 29, 2010

Covok posted:

Where are the rules for making monsters? I saw sample monsters, but not rules for building them. Getting deja vu so, if I asked before, my bad.

Page 161.

# ? May 21, 2016 19:31

5-Headed Snake God: Jun 12, 2008; Do you see how he's a cat?

Rules question: Can a Necromancer/Blaster apply his Mark of Death when dealing damage to a second creature with Multitarget Boost?

# ? May 23, 2016 17:20

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

I told myself I wasn't going to ask this, but the min-maxer in me can't resist:

What's the deal with The Flame kit?

It's an ability built on tanking rolls to get AP, but there's already a system for that using the Complication mechanic. It seems to me to be roughly equivalent as well, with Disadvantage giving roughly 20% more twists to gain you 33% of an AP. So a slight gain, but also a really good chance to get a Cost on top, so kind of a wash IMO.

That's all fine and dandy, but it also comes at an opportunity cost of having chosen a different kit. Protagonist gets random APs for existing, Scholar gets to save up for auto-6s on knowledge rolls, etc.

Is there an advance I missed that makes things a lot better? The AP when you fail the team one seems good, so you end up getting ahead of the Consequence mechanic by quite a bit, but seems basically mandatory.

I dunno. I really want to like it, but it seems pretty punishing and redundant when you could just use Consequences.

# ? May 26, 2016 16:47

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

I'm not sure about the comparisons to other kits - I would have to go run some numbers. But off the top of my head I can see a couple of things you are missing.

There are a number of ways to mitigate Disadvantage: linked rolls and helping come to mind.

Using it optimally may not get you as many successes as other Kits, but that's not really the point. The point is to foster a cycle of falling to your vices and relying on your friends to bail you out. The rewards are meant incline you towards the intended behavior.

With that said, if it truly is weak (and I will revisit it at some point), I think the obvious fix is that when you spend your points and give your buddy an AP, you get one, too.

# ? May 28, 2016 07:44

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

Well, I'm going to give it a try regardless. I'll let you know how it goes. You're completely right that all the ways you can mitigate the Disad weren't in my brain space.

# ? Jun 3, 2016 15:34

Look Around You: Jan 19, 2009

I know there was some discussion of it earlier, but am I the only one that thinks Area Denial is extremely powerful for an at-will? It almost feels powerful enough to be an encounter power, especially compared to the other Archer at-wills.

# ? Jun 4, 2016 17:27

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# ? May 23, 2024 09:50

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

Look Around You posted:

I know there was some discussion of it earlier, but am I the only one that thinks Area Denial is extremely powerful for an at-will? It almost feels powerful enough to be an encounter power, especially compared to the other Archer at-wills.

It's definitely mega-good and also kinda weird in that it's enemies-only. Many of the fights in my campaign have the defender/martial artist rushing in and marking everyone, then the striker/archer runs up next to her and area-denials everyone including the two of them from melee range.

It's such an effective tactic that it's used on most of their turns, and stuff like the trick and super-trick arrows get neglected.

# ? Jun 4, 2016 17:46

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