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well it's not like people haven't falsely admitted crimes before. but yeah as i read it seems more like theyre baiting him into answering incriminating questions than anything else, making sure that the pre-meditation is undeniable and poo poo like that
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May 24, 2016 00:29
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I'm just surprised he was so candid.
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May 24, 2016 00:31
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E: Accidental double post
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May 24, 2016 00:33
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some of the answers are really funny, despite the horrible nature of the crime. saying hes a mommas boy, describing his sex bag, "S and M games", i guess its like the juxtaposition of the deep evil of the act against the casual conversation about weird poo poo
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May 24, 2016 00:38
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:I got a little sick to my stomach trying to read that. If you read to the end, he got sick to his stomach saying it. He intellectually understood that what he had done was wrong, but couldn't comprehend how he got to that point.
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May 24, 2016 00:53
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Jedit posted:If you read to the end, he got sick to his stomach saying it. He intellectually understood that what he had done was wrong, but couldn't comprehend how he got to that point. This would make a good deterrent for porn addiction. Well, there's more to it than just that, but it definitely played a role.
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May 24, 2016 00:59
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pookel posted:I wish all guys with hosed-up serial killer tendencies could read this, because it's pretty clear how reality failed to live up to his fantasies. There's also that bit about how he immediately regretted hitting her with the wooden board, but at that point there could be no turning back. It was either kill her or get busted for bashing her over the head. Westie posted:I'm just surprised he was so candid. From his Wikipedia page: quote:...he told them, "Go ahead and arrest me. She is in there. I chopped her up." EDIT: There seems to be a bit of discrepancy there though, because in the interview he claims that he did not chop her up, other than trying to decapitate her. The Mighty Moltres has a new favorite as of 03:13 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 03:10
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The Endbringer posted:EDIT: There seems to be a bit of discrepancy there though, because in the interview he claims that he did not chop her up, other than trying to decapitate her. He didnt blurt that out until the police literally opened a bit of the container and saw the shirt which he himself had days prior described to them as the last outfit he saw her in. His original story was that the duct-taped container was protecting rare comic books from moisture damage. He also had a meltdown to an online friend about extreme nervousness about being falsely implicated for the "neighbors lost girl" disappearance-behavior that made no logical sense from someone who was trying to act completely innocent. Its really disturbing how he doesn't have the usual psychopathic or sociopath traits one usually associates with these crimes, he seemed indecisive, hesitant, was a horrible liar.
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May 24, 2016 04:06
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FireWorksWell posted:It isn't about hiding secrets, it's about finding some kind of drive to live.
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May 24, 2016 04:12
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Terrible Opinions posted:Not gonna lie you kinda sound like a Utah Mormon. the porn thing isn't totally inaccurate you start out looking at softcore shots of boobs next thing you know its pterodactyl gangbangs
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May 24, 2016 04:24
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The weirdest stuff is often the tamest, or seems so to my vanilla brain. Like, stuff that I would have no clue was supposed to be erotic except that it's shot like porn but is just a badly edited chroma-key effect of a clothed woman eating a tiny man or something. Is this all because of the internet? Are boobs boring to young people now?
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May 24, 2016 04:29
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crowoutofcontext posted:Its really disturbing how he doesn't have the usual psychopathic or sociopath traits one usually associates with these crimes, he seemed indecisive, hesitant, was a horrible liar. Well, lack of empathy, a prerequisite for premeditated murder, is pretty drat sociopathic. Especially since the purpose is sexual gratification.
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May 24, 2016 05:13
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Duke of Flies posted:Hey, how about another local serial killer? This guy is a really interesting case. He would stake out places to come back and commit murders in some cases 2-5 years prior to the event and after his stake out of the place he would bury a 3 gallon bucket filled with money wrapped in plastic, disassembled guns, ammo, and maybe other stuff I am forgetting. This would be filled with oil to keep the parts from rusting, and then buried. When he would come back to commit the crimes he would fly somewhere, get a car, drive 500+ miles to the place, dig up his stuff, and use it to commit the muders, not bringing or taking anything. All of the murders besides the last one he designed to be at most a missing person, but in some cases not even that and in none of the cases (of the few that he told them about) was there a body or even suspicion of foul play. The first case he told the FBI about was a double murder of a couple in New England and when they checked there was a note of the couple being possibly missing but no signs or anything wrong. The house where he had hidden their bodies had already been torn down and built over. The people that did the construction job did remember a really really foul odor when they were pulling up parts of the demolished house but everything was in pieces and crushed so they assumed dead animal under a house. He told them about that first couple in exchange for a cigar. He was an absolute narcissist so some/all of this might be made up. But nothing that he had told them up to the time he killed himself was found to be untrue. That I can remember. He was also a necro. which fueled these crimes. To get the ransom money he had to give proof of life despite having already killed the girl. He sewed her eyes open and ran fishing line to hooks in the ceiling to have her hold up the daily paper. As mentioned above, it worked, and seeing the picture I can't tell to be honest. She had been dead I think 3 or more days at that point. That poo poo is loving unnerving.
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May 24, 2016 05:19
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Jack Gladney posted:The weirdest stuff is often the tamest, or seems so to my vanilla brain. Like, stuff that I would have no clue was supposed to be erotic except that it's shot like porn but is just a badly edited chroma-key effect of a clothed woman eating a tiny man or something. Is this all because of the internet? Are boobs boring to young people now? I think it's just a desire to get off, and some people don't like to look at the same old crap so they find something more intense until that starts to grow tame. We're an adaptive species. Terrible Opinions posted:Not gonna lie you kinda sound like a Utah Mormon. Thanks.
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May 24, 2016 06:37
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well, lack of empathy, a prerequisite for premeditated murder, is pretty drat sociopathic. Especially since the purpose is sexual gratification. It's the passing thoughts on how he should stop by to help his sister with her homework and the mix of sentences where he clearly isn't leaving out any details and revealing himself as guiltless with descriptions about how he was on Fetish Message Boards where they all agreed that their fantasies were completely amoral and that in reality they would be disgusted and guilt-ridden. I was kind of being redundant though and using both socio and psychopath as "born without a conscious" I know some people use the word sociopath as someone you can become, like a once kind-hearted junkie who finally resorts to violent crime to get his fix, and psychopath as someone you are born as and never have even the possibility of the capacity to feel guilt. I find sociopaths more terrifying because it means under the right circumstances all those guys on the message board who vouched for their morality can become like him given the right events and completely lose their empathy.
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May 24, 2016 07:02
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So I've been bingeing through this thread and catching up on things, and came across all the Desert Chat surrounding the West Mesa murders. The Paul Bowles quote that Inspired me to do a reading of it, and then a couple pages latter A drone piece that they were inspired to write by creepy desert chat. Anyway, the two seemed like a natural fit, so for anyone who is interested, I put my reading over The Amen's Break piece. https://soundcloud.com/greatbacon/west-mesa-desert Sorry if it sounds like rear end. The desert saga of this thread hit home for me, having grown up in the high desert of western Colorado. Thanks everyone for posting all this weird, creepy stuff. Even if it's lovely the stuff happens in the first place.
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May 24, 2016 07:21
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crowoutofcontext posted:He didnt blurt that out until the police literally opened a bit of the container and saw the shirt which he himself had days prior described to them as the last outfit he saw her in. His original story was that the duct-taped container was protecting rare comic books from moisture damage. He also had a meltdown to an online friend about extreme nervousness about being falsely implicated for the "neighbors lost girl" disappearance-behavior that made no logical sense from someone who was trying to act completely innocent. Underwood reminds me a lot of Dennis Nilsen, the Muswell Hill Murderer. I don't have time to write it up now, but he's worth a Google.
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May 24, 2016 08:21
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crowoutofcontext posted:It's the passing thoughts on how he should stop by to help his sister with her homework and the mix of sentences where he clearly isn't leaving out any details and revealing himself as guiltless with descriptions about how he was on Fetish Message Boards where they all agreed that their fantasies were completely amoral and that in reality they would be disgusted and guilt-ridden. Yeah that's honestly what makes that whole transcript more unsettling to me than something like the poo poo written by Albert Fish and the like: a lot of what he said about his life and day to day thought patterns is relatable and empathizable, and it makes it a lot more terrifying that he was ultimately capable of such an act because of it. You don't usually get that kind of clarity of thinking/admission of regret and guilt in those cases and it's almost startling how easy it seems for someone like that to act on what he did. It's uncomfortably humanizing at times for someone who committed such a monstrous act and it makes you wonder how many seemingly normal people are walking that fine line in their heads every day and you'd never even guess it
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May 24, 2016 08:28
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I google image search'd Underwood's name - let's just say the links I ended up clicking on have scarred me for life - Shirley Lynette Ledford.
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May 24, 2016 09:07
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Infyrno posted:To get the ransom money he had to give proof of life despite having already killed the girl. He sewed her eyes open and ran fishing line to hooks in the ceiling to have her hold up the daily paper. As mentioned above, it worked, and seeing the picture I can't tell to be honest. She had been dead I think 3 or more days at that point. That poo poo is loving unnerving. Holy poo poo, that picture is disturbingly easy to find, and yeah, you'd never know at a cursory glance. Poor girl 
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May 24, 2016 10:59
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hseroK divaD posted:I wonder what kind of medication was he taking that triggered all those hosed up fantasies. If you have severe bi-polar disorder and you get too much or too little meds it can induce manic states where you are so convinced you can do anything it can lead people to do frankly suicidal stuff because they are so pumped up. Usually it just leads to people making dumb purchases ("I'm totally gonna rebuild this 1979 Charger because that's what my dead Dad always wanted to do before he died!" "I'm gonna build a fukkin' porch and gazebo, just need to hit Home Depot and buy 5 grand of power tools!") or gambling but if you were a person with psychopathic traits it could very well break the barrier between "maybe I should kidnap this lady and do weird sex poo poo to her before I murder her" and "Nah that sounds like a great way to go to prison forever, better just keep facebook stalking her". There have been other meds that also can elicit frankly horrible mental states, Chantix is a common one because it's so widely prescribed for quitting smoking but it's side effects can lead to mental breakdowns, extreme depression, suicidal tendency and hallucinations. Same with a lot of prescription sleep drugs, if you manage to wake up while still under the influence you can basically enter a state where your brain cant decide if it's awake or dreaming and you can trip balls/see terrible hallucinatory dream effects in real life that you are unable to wake up from. Lunesta did a pretty good job of purging a lot of the reports of it's side effects from Wikipedia and a lot of internet places but when it became a generic it became a free for all and you can find ample data about how loving insane Lunesta side effects can be. On the other hand certain meds for depression can suppress empathy due to receptor blocking and in people who are potential psychopaths or sociopaths who already may lack or completely be devoid of empathy and also may have preexisting issues with serotonin, that can send them down a terrifying road. Westie posted:I'm just surprised he was so candid. A lot of people who do these sorts of ultra hosed up things or have these deep horrible urges feel extremely alone. Also while the stereotype of a murderous psychopath is someone who is devoid of empathy for humans (IE the "dark triad"), psychopathy is a spectrum and lots of people spend their entire life fighting the voices in their heads that are telling them to do terrible things. They often think that doing the thing will finally make the urge go away or make it less somehow but that rarely works. So when they get caught it's often a relief to them, they realize they have need to do something that is beyond reprehensible and they understand it's wrong, and so a lot of times the person interviewing them is the first person they have ever had who will listen to these terrible things they have done and why they did them. And if they do really lack the ability to value human life, they often just don't give a gently caress. That's why you see murderers who seem fairly passive or who don't care when they get sent to prison for life, since they just lack the things that would make normal people fear prison, they don't care about human contact and they don't care about happiness in the same way you and I do. They care about controlling other people and subjugating them and that can be done in any environment if you work hard enough. It's why they don't tell people where the bodies are, or make up more murders they didn't do, or suggest they did murders other people did, because it allows them to influence people as long as someone believes them and they love that.
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May 24, 2016 12:20
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I'm not going to read the transcript for the Underwood thing, but I think I've heard of this case before. Is this the girl who immediately apologized right after the rear end in a top hat hit her?
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May 24, 2016 15:28
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Nth Doctor posted:I'm not going to read the transcript for the Underwood thing, but I think I've heard of this case before. Is this the girl who immediately apologized right after the rear end in a top hat hit her? Yep
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May 24, 2016 15:37
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Nth Doctor posted:I'm not going to read the transcript for the Underwood thing, but I think I've heard of this case before. Is this the girl who immediately apologized right after the rear end in a top hat hit her? That's the one. It's a sad read. I can't imagine A - having those kinds of impulses, and B - ACTING on them. Mental illness is some jacked up poo poo.
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May 24, 2016 15:37
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HaB posted:That's the one. Is there any diagnosis of legit mental illness, or is it "He did this, he must be crazy!" stuff?
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May 24, 2016 17:01
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whiteyfats posted:Is there any diagnosis of legit mental illness, or is it "He did this, he must be crazy!" stuff? We just use the term mental illness so that we feel safer knowing that there's no way a 'normal' person could do those things. He was definitely hosed in the head, either way.
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May 24, 2016 17:27
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Pigsfeet on Rye posted:Looking at the Piper Alpha story and thinking about fire at sea brought up this memory from USN boot camp: the classic Trial By Fire, about the USS Forrestal and the horrendous fire onboard during Vietnam. In 1975 the cruiser Belknap collided with the carrier John F. Kennedy, cutting open the carrier's jet fuel transfer lines and pouring burning fuel down over the cruiser. It's pretty amazing that only 8 people died, and it's testament to the Navy re-learning a lot of lessons during the Forrestal fire. After the fire was out, the Belknap looked like this: 
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May 24, 2016 17:48
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Phanatic posted:In 1975 the cruiser Belknap collided with the carrier John F. Kennedy, cutting open the carrier's jet fuel transfer lines and pouring burning fuel down over the cruiser. It's pretty amazing that only 8 people died, and it's testament to the Navy re-learning a lot of lessons during the Forrestal fire. After the fire was out, the Belknap looked like this: Holy poo poo, I knew about the Forrestal, Enterprise, and Oriskany fires, but never about that.
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May 24, 2016 18:19
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whiteyfats posted:Is there any diagnosis of legit mental illness, or is it "He did this, he must be crazy!" stuff? A big part of the confusion with this stuff is that there is a difference between a personality disorder, deviant sexual proclivities, and mental illness. Someone who commits the acts that Underwood did would certainly have at least one or two personality disorders, and he obviously had a few deviant sexual fetishes as well. That doesn't mean he had a diagnosable mental illness like schizophrenia though. Its a fine distinction and doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in every case, but I think this is where we get a lot of the confusion about whether someone is "mentally ill" or not. For instance, someone may have been diagnosed by their psychiatrist as having narcissistic personality disorder, but simply having that disorder wouldn't make one mentally ill in the eyes of most professionals.
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May 24, 2016 19:14
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Pigsfeet on Rye posted:Holy poo poo, I knew about the Forrestal, Enterprise, and Oriskany fires, but never about that. Yeah, whenever superstructure melts it's a bad day. The JAG investigation is here: http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20KENNEDY%20AND%20BELKNAP%2075%20PT%201.pdf http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20KENNEDY%20AND%20BELKNAP%2075%20PT%202.pdf
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May 24, 2016 19:50
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Basebf555 posted:A big part of the confusion with this stuff is that there is a difference between a personality disorder, deviant sexual proclivities, and mental illness. Someone who commits the acts that Underwood did would certainly have at least one or two personality disorders, and he obviously had a few deviant sexual fetishes as well. That doesn't mean he had a diagnosable mental illness like schizophrenia though. I was mainly asking if anything had come up where he wouldn't be competent to stand trial.
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May 24, 2016 20:22
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whiteyfats posted:I was mainly asking if anything had come up where he wouldn't be competent to stand trial. Having read the interview transcript, I can't imagine he'd be incompetent to stand trial. Having deviant sexual urges isn't anywhere near the legal definition of insanity, and the interview clearly indicates that he knew killing a person was wrong and decided to do it anyway.
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May 24, 2016 21:18
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It's really, really hard to reach the legal threshold for being unfit to stand trial. Even Richard Chase stood trial, and he was a paranoid schizophrenic with a history of involuntary committal. The instant you show any sign of trying to hide what you've done, you demonstrate that you know right from wrong and you will be ruled competent. The only "big hitter" who wasn't is Ed Gein, and even he would probably have been ruled sane if he'd been tried in a decade later than the 50's. The interesting thing about Underwood is the influence his meds had on his crimes. The guy was clearly already a paedophile, but if his meds really made him put on 30lbs in a month, you've got to wonder how much that constant preoccupation with eating had on the direction his fantasies and subsequent crimes took. There's a non-zero chance that, without that additional trigger, he'd have stuck to jerking it to swimsuit catalogues instead of killing a little girl. (Not that it would absolve him of anything - if you think your meds are making you want to eat people, loving change them, dipshit)
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May 24, 2016 22:18
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well, lack of empathy, a prerequisite for premeditated murder, is pretty drat sociopathic. Especially since the purpose is sexual gratification. Jeffrey Dahmer seems like a good comparison - he also seemed to show a certain amount of empathy and remorse if you caught him when he wasn't in the middle of fulfilling his horrific fantasies. Sociopaths like Ted Bundy don't sit around hating themselves for the way they hurt other people - they just hurt people, because they like it, and they don't really care what happens to the victims. This guy and Dahmer did equally horrible things, but they felt bad about it later. That doesn't make them any better than Bundy, don't get me wrong, it just seems like a different mindset.
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May 24, 2016 22:29
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Don't worry if you don't feel like reading the whole Underwood transcript, the whole video of the interview is online. So... enjoy listening to this creep describe his sickening poo poo. Part 1: http://newsok.com/kevin-ray-underwood-part-1/multimedia/video/1456276961 Part 2: (Starts at the Carls Jr. employment talk) http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/1456276966 Part 3: http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/1456302798 That Damn Satyr has a new favorite as of 22:44 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 22:41
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pookel posted:My uneducated opinion on this is that he's one of those guys whose empathy gets turned off when he's horny enough. He talks about jerking off to these cannibalism fantasies, and then immediately turning to "oh God what is wrong with me" after orgasm. Dahmer felt bad the entire time and tried to do whatever he could to stave it off Like sucking severed dicks
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May 24, 2016 22:49
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For a few posts people were talking about sport arena disasters and it reminded me of one that happened in my neck of the woods about 15 years ago. I'm talking about the Ellis Park disaster in Johannesburg, South Africa. Basically 2 of the biggest football teams were facing off against each other. The two teams, Orlando Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs, are both based in Soweto and both have extreme passionate followings, so whenever they play against each other it is quite the event. Usually the games are peaceful and without violence. So when the game was being played at Chiefs homeground there was an expected huge crowd. The place was already at capacity with 60,000 spectators but many say that the crowd inside was far far above capicity. There were many more outside the ground trying to get in. The estimate has been at around another 60,00 outside the ground. After Pirates scored from the penalty spot the crowd inside the ground became loud, and many outside wanted to find out what happened. This lead to a stampede trying to get into the arena. As has been stated with past posts, this never ends well. Added to it is that there were reports that untrained security staff tried to turn people away by firing tear gas into the crowds leading to panic and confusion that added to the stampede. In the end, 43 people lost their lives, the youngest being 11 years old. There were many injured as well.  Here is a news report about it, but be warned that there are scenes of dead people on the ground.
Madkal has a new favorite as of 23:05 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 22:57
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pookel posted:My uneducated opinion on this is that he's one of those guys whose empathy gets turned off when he's horny enough. He talks about jerking off to these cannibalism fantasies, and then immediately turning to "oh God what is wrong with me" after orgasm. I imagine his experience might be somewhat like the disturbing case of the man who got a brain tumor and became a raving pedophile Super normal 40 year old guy, happy second marriage, teenage step-daughter until.... quote:....For the first time in his life, he visited prostitutes at brothels disguised as massage parlours. Fully aware that his feelings were immoral, he built a secret collection of pornographic magazines and websites which focused on paedophilia. Soon, he was unable to contain his urges and started making sexual advances towards his prepubescent stepdaughter. After a few weeks the girl told her mother, who discovered her husband's preoccupation with child pornography. The article goes on to have some expert opinions on what was going on but it is stuff like this where sexual deviancy and mental illness/injury are blurred always haunt me. Having a personality change after getting your head smashed is one thing, but just having one area of your life radically change when your reasoning and consciousness are preserved is particularly hellish.
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May 24, 2016 23:03
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Basebf555 posted:Its a fine distinction and doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in every case, but I think this is where we get a lot of the confusion about whether someone is "mentally ill" or not. For instance, someone may have been diagnosed by their psychiatrist as having narcissistic personality disorder, but simply having that disorder wouldn't make one mentally ill in the eyes of most professionals. The very concept of "mentally ill" defies easy description. Homosexuality wasn't removed from the DSM until the DSM 4. And the DSM is mainly about billing, anyway. Things are even worse once you get the law involved: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/05/ny_v_junco_sex_civil_hygiene_a.html quote:In any event, the state of New York is pleased to offer civil commitment of sex offenders. How do you determine who is "a sex offender requiring civil management?" According to the Mental Hygiene Law (yes, it's called that) Also: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-offenses/political-diagnosis-psychiatry-service-law http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/04/what_should_count_as_a_mental.html
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May 24, 2016 23:05
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