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What's the historical justification for tech groups, anyway?
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May 26, 2016 19:04
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Jay Rust posted:What's the historical justification for tech groups, anyway? White Man's Burden
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May 26, 2016 19:14
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Jay Rust posted:What's the historical justification for tech groups, anyway? at the start of the period, eurasia was very roughly on par in terms of 'technology' and 'development' and 'power'. at the end, european nations had a vast set of intercontinental empires and were dramatically more advanced, on several axes, than nations outside europe. tech groups are a very crude way to get from A to B; they're historical insofar as they encourage that historical outcome, but there's no real resemblance to how that happened. also, what fister said.
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May 26, 2016 19:27
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I'm not in love with the idea of eating a 20% tech penalty for not wanting to colonize
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May 26, 2016 19:30
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It'll spread to you eventually while you're not colonizing, just not nearly as fast.
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May 26, 2016 19:32
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Some things Johan has clarified in the DD thread that people should probably know: 1) Once they've appeared initially all institutions spread to neighboring provinces, the extra spread factors just speed it up. 2) When you embrace an insitution it instantly spreads to your entire nation. 3) Since most of the world starts with Feudalism it starts at the full penalty for nations that don't. So basically you don't really have to worry about fulfilling special requirements to get institutions unless you're aiming to be the one to invent it. Once your neighbors have it you'll have it pretty soon. Sindai fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 19:33
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So that means you still start at full penalty for non Europeans?
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May 26, 2016 19:37
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CharlestheHammer posted:So that means you still start at full penalty for non Europeans? Dev diary says only hordes, new world, and subsaharan Africa don't start with feudalism, so only if you start there, and only for as long as it takes for the institution to spread to you enough to adopt it.
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May 26, 2016 19:43
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So feudalism starts out existing in most of the world's provinces, but most countries don't start out embracing it? And it spreads very slowly? Hopefully it's not too much of a pain to balance the starting state for non-Europeans. I also don't think that I saw what the cost of embracing Feudalism would be. Once you do that as a New World nation you're presumably done with institutions until Europeans show up? That could put a decent dent in the tech gap Also what does this mean: " - New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has." I thought the whole idea was you no longer had to Westernize, you just embraced institutions? Or I guess you still need to Westernize in order to get Western units, maybe?
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May 26, 2016 20:43
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QuarkJets posted:So feudalism starts out existing in most of the world's provinces, but most countries don't start out embracing it? And it spreads very slowly? Hopefully it's not too much of a pain to balance the starting state for non-Europeans. I imagine the spread rate will be tweaked with and moddable. Africa, Hordes, and the New World will start at +50% tech cost due to lack of feudalism. The Renaissance starts in Italy after 1450 and Colonialism in a Euro colonizer after 1500 (then an additional +20% institution every 50 years), so non-Euros will be facing another +40% tech costs early on until those get spread. The dev diary says institutions spread across borders when there are positive relations so that's a bit of a notable twist. Mostly I expect that means institutions will have slowed spread between religions, as neighboring nations of different religions don't often have good relations. You pay New Worlders will not have any institutions at all until Euros show up, I'm pretty sure. After you complete your New World reforming, you inherit access to all the institutions of the Euro neighbor you reformed off of. Edit: since the cost scales with development, large empires will have to pay more to keep up in tech. So a "nerf" to blobbing. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 20:54
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Fister Roboto posted:I do think it's a little weird that feudalism is apparently the foundation of technological advance. Yeah, that also struck me as odd.
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May 26, 2016 21:01
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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And that you could theoretically advance in other subsequent institutions and THEN embrace feudalism, which would be seem like an antiquated form of government. Two questions: do we know what the cost for embracing an institution will be, and do we know if this is in the free patch? Edit: I could read the thread and see that embracing costs money. Flip Yr Wig fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 21:12
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Flip Yr Wig posted:And that you could theoretically advance in other subsequent institutions and THEN embrace feudalism, which would be seem like an antiquated form of government. I think it's the next free patch. Also, I should've read through the dev diary thread, Johan specifically responds that adopting an institution costs MONEY, not monarch points. No idea on amount.
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May 26, 2016 21:16
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It's part of the patch. Fundamental mechanic changes always are because you can't disable them without breaking the game.
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May 26, 2016 21:16
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Well, it's not entirely the way I would have handled a tech restructuring, but it's a vast and much-needed improvement. I'm hoping that the DLC will add new ROTW mechanics, like Johan has hinted at already.
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May 26, 2016 21:26
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah, that also struck me as odd. I imagine the idea is feudalism as a sort of codified unifying political-administrative structure, and a basis for a state apparatus. There's some overlap between that and government forms that I'm going to guess it going to be ironed out long-term.
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May 26, 2016 21:39
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Average Bear posted:Sweet, more tacked on mechanics. As if tech groups weren't already technically tacked on. I'm not a fan of some systems but this is stupid to be thought of as a "tacked on" system.
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May 26, 2016 22:23
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My Cologne game has almost reached the year 1700 and it's... slow. Seriously slow. It can take what feels like over a second before the interface reacts sometimes, and not on a new year or even a monthly tick. What the hell is wrong with my computer? Is the game really that much more demanding now? I don't remember it being this bad before, I've finished a few games and it wasn't so laggy at the end as it is now. Oh, and I solved the aspiration for liberty problem. By looking up on the wiki I noticed that it's not actually possible to get it as a theocracy with innovative ideas. So I switched to a monarchy, changed into absolute monarchy and tanked my stability the easy way. I completely screwed up and got the awesome nationalism CB so I couldn't no-CB war. Derp. Still it's nicely ticking along at a staggering 0.5% progress a year now. Changing trade center from my capital to Holland quadrupled my trade income. It was glorious.
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May 27, 2016 00:14
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You can still no-CB war, even with Nationalism, you just have to go hunt it out and pick it.
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May 27, 2016 00:26
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Thanks. I thought you had to select no CB from the list. Did they change that at some point? 
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May 27, 2016 00:36
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I'll be the guy to suggest that the Renaissance should fire off faster if byz gets eaten, slower if not
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May 27, 2016 00:39
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Average Bear posted:I'll be the guy to suggest that the Renaissance should fire off faster if byz gets eaten, slower if not
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May 27, 2016 00:41
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Average Bear posted:I'll be the guy to suggest that the Renaissance should fire off faster if byz gets eaten, slower if not Yeah, seems reasonable.
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May 27, 2016 01:06
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Poil posted:Thanks. I thought you had to select no CB from the list. Did they change that at some point? You do have to go find it in the list. It's just that No CB is always available, even when it would normally be a stupid choice. Far as I know that's never changed.
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May 27, 2016 01:22
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WilliamAnderson posted:Yeah, seems reasonable. ... Also if Basileia Rhomaion rises from the ashes they should start with it and the Latin barbarians should have to receive it from Glorious Contantiyyeejee and *voice is drowned out by increasing accordion*
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May 27, 2016 02:37
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QuarkJets posted:So feudalism starts out existing in most of the world's provinces, but most countries don't start out embracing it? And it spreads very slowly? Hopefully it's not too much of a pain to balance the starting state for non-Europeans. Native reforming is different from westernising.
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May 27, 2016 02:41
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I know it is a minor quibble, and it has probably been brought up a bunch before, but as someone who hasn't played the game until now, the ability to get cavalry units as a New World nation without any European presence really kind of bugs me.
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May 27, 2016 20:34
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It used to be that Native Americans just never got cavalry, ever. Baby steps.
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May 27, 2016 20:40
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Llama cavalry.
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May 27, 2016 20:44
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Pretty sure the tech description says that you end up just cloning horses from fossilized bones. It's not that far-fetched.
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May 27, 2016 20:45
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Is there a goon EU4 Discord? Looked in the OP but didn't see one.
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May 27, 2016 21:50
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Seems like institutions could really work well for simulating the Colombian exchange
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May 28, 2016 02:36
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 Got a Holland game off the ground, looking to form the Netherlands eventually. Liege (green) and Utrecht (yellow) are my vassals, started to integrate Utrecht. England, Sweden, and Palatinate are allies. Austria is in deep poo poo. Took Influence-Defensive so far, not sure about next pick. Should I form Netherlands ASAP or wait, since it removes me from the HRE? Also, if I wanted to get into colonization, what would be the best way to do that? I forget if basing rights give colonial range.
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May 28, 2016 05:00
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StashAugustine posted:
Basing rights don't give colonization range. I'd conquer an Irish minor, or declare war on Denmark/Norway somehow and take Iceland. Scotland is also an option, if you can declare war on a nearby ally and take something a bit closer to NA in the war. You're running a bit late for that though, not to say you can't get into the colonization game, but you probably want to take Exploration as your first diplo pick. You might want to consider the Ivory Coast because you can direct trade from there to the English Channel and later in the game that becomes very lucrative, though Spain/Portugal likely have a lot of it locked down at the moment.
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May 28, 2016 05:46
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Playing as the Teutonic Order and have gotten myself into the Empire so Austria isn't going to come wreck my poo poo every time I expand westward in my quest to form Germany, any other tips beyond taking any idea group that increases discipline to create my army of space marines?
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May 28, 2016 06:02
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Do I have to be Emperor to war annex a country in full? Fought a defensive war against Saxony as Bohemia and Austria made me give them back Vogtland when I called the war.
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May 28, 2016 15:05
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verbal enema posted:Do I have to be Emperor to war annex a country in full? Fought a defensive war against Saxony as Bohemia and Austria made me give them back Vogtland when I called the war. Naw. The Emperor can always demand Unlwafully held Imperial territory. Essentially any province you don't have a core on that is in the Empire counts as such. Either be the Emperor, be allied to the Emperor or be big enough to tell the Emperor to gently caress off when he demands you give provinces back.
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May 28, 2016 15:42
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IIRC the emperor can't demand provinces unless they are at peace - so get those cores done before he finishes his protracted war with france/Russia/Ottomans.
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May 28, 2016 15:55
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Pretty sure you also have to be at peace for the emperor to demand the unlawful territory back. At least it used to be that way. So if you chain your wars just right you can finish your coring before being at peace.
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May 28, 2016 15:59
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How bad an idea is colonizing America using Expansion and steal maps to explore terrain?
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May 28, 2016 19:12
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