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I think that a "Kamen Rider" type show could easily survive in the US, at least for a few years. Just not the type of stuff that Toei is currently airing, with the overly talkative belts and questionable suit design changes. I honestly think a show with more MotW seventies style plot beats would do better.
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May 26, 2016 14:57
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Cliff Racer posted:I think that a "Kamen Rider" type show could easily survive in the US, at least for a few years. Just not the type of stuff that Toei is currently airing, with the overly talkative belts and questionable suit design changes. I honestly think a show with more MotW seventies style plot beats would do better. I think they could probably get away with something along the lines of CW's Flash or Arrow series, where the show is like 60% sexy young-adult drama and 30% transforming into a bug to kick a guy so hard he explodes. I think the viewing audience here, Power Rangers aside, expects more character drama out of what our equivalent of a "toku" is.
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May 26, 2016 15:03
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CW superhero shows are the fabed "American Tokusatsu" and are wildly successful. There's absolutely ample room for a Kamen Rider series to succeed over here, complete with Rider Kicks and actual transformations. What there isn't room for is a footage-recycling Saban project, or for a toyetic merchandizing vehicle. It'd have to be pointed at the Flarrow demographic. Relationship drama mixed with stunt action and big character-actor seasonal villains and wink-nudge references. A full remake of Double would probably be the best route to success, especially if they just let Phillip and Shotaro date. That'd fly pretty well in 2018.
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May 26, 2016 16:18
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DoctorWhat posted:CW superhero shows are the fabed "American Tokusatsu" and are wildly successful. There's absolutely ample room for a Kamen Rider series to succeed over here, complete with Rider Kicks and actual transformations. Yeah, Double would adapt to this format really well. Just kind of genre-tweak it into that SuperWhoLock zone about supernatural investigators who are very close, and make the dopants into more low-key kind of "person in street fashion, but with glowy eyes and spewing lava out of their hands" sort of situations, with maybe simple prosthetics like horns or wings where appropriate. Museum doesn't even need to change, really. They're already an unethical tech company that has like a majority share in control over their city's policies. I think you could even keep the USB stick gimmick if you replaced the voice clips with like the noise a Proton Pack makes when it gets switched on. I would watch the poo poo out of that.
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May 26, 2016 16:31
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Nothing and no one should ever follow the example of the Arrowverse. Those shows are terrible. Honestly if American toku wants to appeal to another demographic, then they should take the example of the other comic book company. Go for an adult demographic with a web series. Hell, Toei themselves are now with Amazons. Kamen Rider could adapt well to that, though the adaptation would have to go a bit darker to work. Or just adapt Amazons, I guess.
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May 26, 2016 17:33
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Blaze Dragon posted:Nothing and no one should ever follow the example of the Arrowverse. Those shows are terrible. lmao if you think daredevil would be half as successful if it was a new property and not MARVEL STUDIOS PRESENTS DAREDEVIL
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May 26, 2016 17:39
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Honestly what a lot of you are describing is just Well Agito but stretched out to 40 minutes instead of 20. Agito is pretty hardcore soap opera most of the time.
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May 26, 2016 17:50
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Literally The Worst posted:lmao if you think daredevil would be half as successful if it was a new property and not MARVEL STUDIOS PRESENTS DAREDEVIL Do you remember how worried everyone was when Netflix announced they were going to make a Daredevil series and everyone immediately thought of the awful Affleck movie?
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May 26, 2016 17:58
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I think Kabuto would be better for a CW remake. You don't need the toyetic Gaia Memories or form changes, plus Kabuto has more sexy dudes and a pre-existing wink wink bromance with Punchhopper and Kickpuncher. And CW already has a two person combining into one superhero, Firestorm. I think that alien bodysnatchers would work better in a more adult format than afterschool anti-drug special metaphors where you gotta fix some dude's problem every other episode.
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May 26, 2016 17:58
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Toei, just dub Amazons and put it on American Prime. Please.
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May 26, 2016 18:17
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Some Numbers posted:Do you remember how worried everyone was when Netflix announced they were going to make a Daredevil series and everyone immediately thought of the awful Affleck movie? fine, jessica jones then
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May 26, 2016 18:23
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The point I was making is that Daredevil was successful on its own merits and in spite of preconceived skepticism.
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May 26, 2016 18:36
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mikeycp posted:dub Amazons 
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May 26, 2016 18:39
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The Kabuto dub is great. 
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May 26, 2016 18:39
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Some Numbers posted:The point I was making is that Daredevil was successful on its own merits and in spite of preconceived skepticism. I don't think their was that much skepticism. Marvel had proven themselves with regards to making popular good stuff, and Netflix for making high quality television. People were pretty excited. If anything, it was Agents of SHIELD that had people worried about Daredevil.
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May 26, 2016 18:41
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Some Numbers posted:The point I was making is that Daredevil was successful on its own merits and in spite of preconceived skepticism. it was definitely aided by marvel turning out the Cinematic Universe and lol if you don't think that helped it overcome the awful ben affleck movie
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May 26, 2016 19:01
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mikeycp posted:Toei, just dub Amazons and put it on American Prime. Please. You don't want that. I've posted these before but they're worth posting again. https://twitter.com/OZCLive/status/684675080433999872 https://twitter.com/OZCLive/status/706663080822833153 https://twitter.com/OZCLive/status/711775919015198720 Wizard's dub is a little better, but that's not saying much.
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May 26, 2016 19:24
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OZC posted:You don't want that. I've posted these before but they're worth posting again. Was Kabuto a fluke then?
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May 26, 2016 19:29
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Cliff Racer posted:I think that a "Kamen Rider" type show could easily survive in the US, at least for a few years. Just not the type of stuff that Toei is currently airing, with the overly talkative belts and questionable suit design changes. I honestly think a show with more MotW seventies style plot beats would do better. That's not necessarily true, it could work it would just have to be a regular kids show if the regular shows get brought over, although you'd probably have to lean on connections with Power Rangers pretty hard for the first season or two to help establish it Hell considering how pretty much all toys these days connect to some sort of Web or phone game, the collectable aspect to Rider toylines would work perfectly for that sort of thing
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May 26, 2016 19:30
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mikeycp posted:Was Kabuto a fluke then? Based on the couple of episodes of the Decade and OOO dubs I've managed to snag, personally, I think it was a fluke. It's been a while since I watched Kabuto's dub but it might have been a different voice cast too, I'd have to go back and check. Decade, OOO, Fourze, and Wizard all are using generally the same casts.
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May 26, 2016 19:32
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I agree that CW or another network adapting W semi-faithfully in Arrow or The Flash style for American audiences would be really cool and fun because The Flash especially is a great show and already as goofy or goofier than W, Kuuga, Agito, Drive, and some other Heisei Rider series tend to be. Netflix or Amazon Prime would work very nicely too. What I'm saying is Kamen Rider could be a smash hit here, but Saban or another backwards rear end organization bringing it over for kids will never, ever work. It's the completely wrong take on adapting KR for the western world.
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May 26, 2016 20:10
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Killer Queen posted:I agree that CW or another network adapting W semi-faithfully in Arrow or The Flash style for American audiences would be really cool and fun because The Flash especially is a great show and already as goofy or goofier than W, Kuuga, Agito, Drive, and some other Heisei Rider series tend to be. Netflix or Amazon Prime would work very nicely too. You haven't seen this season of Flash, have you? It took a left turn and a nose dive. It still had gems of scenes, but it's a mess in other ways. Still, I'd say if they could get access to Wizard's props, they could probably try something by cannibalizing it and the barest premise of the original.
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May 26, 2016 20:23
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Kamen rider is alternately too toyetic and too serious. Market it for adults and they won't care about all the plastic crap it is hawking. Market it for kids and it would end up heavily censored.
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May 26, 2016 20:30
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Serious Frolicking posted:Kamen rider is alternately too toyetic and too serious. Market it for adults and they won't care about all the plastic crap it is hawking. Market it for kids and it would end up heavily censored. That's why you'd have to remake it, and sand down the toyetic aspects. A lot of the seasons of Kamen Rider have really strong stories and characters that would be great in an adult TV show. I don't think W would actually work that well because if you take away the Gaia Memories, the form changes, and the monsters of the fortnight, get down to just the skeleton of character and plot, there's not a lot left. It's good stuff, but it's good stuff to hang a fun monster of the week kids show over. one of the earlier Heisei shows would be better, or maybe Gaim, because they've got more going on.
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May 26, 2016 20:45
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I feel like I got into Gaim because there is a very specific interaction between the experiences of "oh my god, his sword is an orange slice" and "oh my god, Mitsy is such a poo poo" and that intersection is just perfectly nailed by e.g. FRUIT OF THE DEAD. Same with tiny cars crying in the rain and Go. e: I'm not saying Mitsy wouldn't have worked without poo poo like Kaito crushing that little jell-o fruit (though Kaito might not have) but I think the juxtaposition of the melodrama is part of the thing but I'm also aware that other people consider it to be a detriment instead. Caphi fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 20:47
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I don't really see what the appeal would be in kamen rider with all of the silliness removed. Super serious karate bugmen who fight normal dudes instead of goofy looking rubber suit monsters? I'm not sure who the target audience of that would be.
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May 26, 2016 21:12
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Serious Frolicking posted:I don't really see what the appeal would be in kamen rider with all of the silliness removed. Super serious karate bugmen who fight normal dudes instead of goofy looking rubber suit monsters? I'm not sure who the target audience of that would be. It doesn't need to have all goofiness removed. The American viewing audience is totally on-board with super heroes now. Spider-Man is practically a karate bugman who fights goofy rubber suit monsters. Like, a bunch of his main villains are goofy rubber suit monsters: Green Goblin, Rhino, Scorpion, Vulture, Shocker, Venom, various others. I'm saying it would need to be somewhat less toyetic in a total remake. Haim Saban has already proven he can't be trusted with Kamen Rider; he can barely be trusted with Super Sentai.
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May 26, 2016 21:18
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deadly_pudding posted:It doesn't need to have all goofiness removed. The American viewing audience is totally on-board with super heroes now. Spider-Man is practically a karate bugman who fights goofy rubber suit monsters. Like, a bunch of his main villains are goofy rubber suit monsters: Green Goblin, Rhino, Scorpion, Vulture, Shocker, Venom, various others. They are totally on board with familiar characters and franchises. Anything people vaguely remember from their childhoods is fair game. That is a part of kamen rider's continued success in japan as well.
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May 26, 2016 21:31
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Serious Frolicking posted:Kamen rider is alternately too toyetic and too serious. Market it for adults and they won't care about all the plastic crap it is hawking. Market it for kids and it would end up heavily censored. There's not really much that you'd need to tone down from the original shows actually, at least for the post Decade series, just edit out the occasional reference to murder and death out as most of them aren't actually all that important to the plots, really you guys are overstating the "maturity" of the franchise, after all the primary demographic for it in Japan is the same demographic as Adventure Time's here in the States
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May 26, 2016 21:41
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I think throwing Blade or Faiz on like scifi channel 10 years ago late night could have worked out.
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May 26, 2016 21:50
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They could probably put Amazons on SyFy as is and have it do alright. Have it premiere during or right after a season of Face/Off so they can have a challenge based on it and also promote it I guess.
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May 26, 2016 21:54
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Considering Syfy's audience and current slate of shows, they could almost certainly put W, Gaim, Drive, etc on there with minor localization changes and it would do okay. But it's too much effort for a series that could end up doing worse than some generic junk like Defiance or The Hunters.
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May 26, 2016 22:12
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The Gaia Memories aren't too toyetic, to be honest. Not any more toyetic that Arrow's twice-a-season gear upgrades or, uh, drugs (for the Dopant Memories). Plus they establish a strong Monster-of-the-Week engine while also opening opportunities for twists. Will this week's Memory just be a monster or will it be a power-up to get excited for? You don't have to like the actual writing or production of any given DC CW show to recognize that it's the ideal format for Kamen Rider in the west. No dubs, no Saban-type recycling. Just a localized ground-up remake, ideally of Double or Kabuto or another of the series that trended towards gravitas. And Doctor Who proves that if you give each Rider at least two television seasons you can deffo get away with adapting a new series every couple of years. You can even do rider crossovers - Doctor Who anniversaries and Flarrow crossovers prove there's a market for that. We already have a thriving American Tokusatsu, is what I'm saying. Why not use its methods?
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May 26, 2016 23:37
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There's also a huge difference, tonally, between toku and American superheroes that makes it hard to bridge the gap unless it's explicitly a kids show
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May 26, 2016 23:45
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American production values, especially on CW shows, are outrageous and getting a decent stunt team that knows how to work suit acting into anything is questionable at best. Take any of the shows you're trying to compare Rider to, and none of them will have as good action scenes as Rider can at the best of times despite assuredly having far, far larger budgets. Double would be a terrible series to try and adapt first to establish a franchise just because Double does not work as a standard Kamen Rider. Double works as a new Kamen Rider that plays a fun twist on the usual formula- two in one Rider. Kuuga, Agito, Black, Amazon(s), or the Original series would work best for a remake into an American version of Kamen Rider, especially the original series. Take the design aesthetic of Kamen Rider the First and the Next but carry it across a TV series and you have the perfect branching off point. Other Rider series rely too much on what Kamen Rider usually is and how this is different to work that way. Hell the original Kamen Rider series even has an excellent story engine and romance angle that would be perfect for a CW style Americanized version. Namely that the main girl, who I forget the name of, believed that Hongo murdered her father and blames him for it and is trying to bring him down. You can either shift that blame onto his Kamen Rider persona, to foster a guilty relationship for Hongo himself, or have her fall for Kamen Rider ala Spider-Man. And yeah, Faiz or Blade would have worked perfectly on Scifi back when they were made. The biggest problem with all of this is that Toei incredibly overestimates how much the brand is actually worth in America, which is a gigantic reason we do not have Kamen Rider on Crunchyroll. Literally The Worst posted:There's also a huge difference, tonally, between toku and American superheroes that makes it hard to bridge the gap unless it's explicitly a kids show This is an excellent point. American Super Hero stuff is way less Punch Mans Punching Mans, even in shows where that's literally their power, see Daredevil. This is why I think adapting the tone and style, though hopefully not the suck factor, of Kamen Rider the First would be the best option. Burkion fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 23:52
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Please do not foster guilt relationships in my bugmen thanks I already have SpiderMan for that
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May 26, 2016 23:53
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Literally The Worst posted:Please do not foster guilt relationships in my bugmen thanks I already have SpiderMan for that Kamen Rider 1971 manga and TV series already beat me to it I'm afraid. And the First. Seriously just remake the First as a TV series. There it's literally just Masked Cyborgs with vaguely animal themed powers who beat the poo poo out of each other.
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May 26, 2016 23:55
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I have ideas floating around in my head as to how the original series + V3 could be reimagined as a trilogy of movies, but that'd never happen.
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May 26, 2016 23:58
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Yeah I'm kinda sick of dudes being driven by guilt, it's part of why I tapped out of comics when I did Gimme some dude who just wants to be friends with everyone so he kicks their problems in the face all day
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May 26, 2016 23:58
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Adapt Shin.
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May 26, 2016 23:59
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