|
PenguinKnight posted:DC blew their big controversy by choosing something that's nearly impenetrable to non-nerds. The Watchmen movie probably made more of a general cultural impact than everything that's happened in comics since, combined.
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
They should have titled it 'More big blue dongs!' then
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 07:55
|
|
|
X-O posted:You know what I find really amusing and sad (for DC) about this Captain America thing is that somehow Marvel has taken what is an obvious shorter term story point and twist and it has completely overshadowed DC who on the same day basically just made the most controversial change to their comics imaginable by bringing Watchmen into the main DC Universe. DC's biggest gamble in years and it's getting completely overshadowed. Kevin Smith pointed out that Marvel loves to troll DC like it's the 60's. DC can't do anything lately without Marvel throwing something out there to steal the attention of the press.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Coming this fall, in a story you never thought would happen, Batman final- THOR HAS A NEW HAT! Gimme gimme gimme, I want it, I want it, I want it!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
For the people who follow Marvel much more closely, what was the last BIG gently caress up by Marvel. Like, if The Outhouse had a counter for Marvel, what are the kind of things that would reset it? The captain America spoiler. That MIGHT be a bad idea, but it's one I want to actually see if they manage to make it work. A good story can actually come out of this.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:19
|
|
|
BigRed0427 posted:For the people who follow Marvel much more closely, what was the last BIG gently caress up by Marvel. Like, if The Outhouse had a counter for Marvel, what are the kind of things that would reset it? Axis was mostly thought of as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
The way they portrayed Iceman coming out.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
BigRed0427 posted:For the people who follow Marvel much more closely, what was the last BIG gently caress up by Marvel. Like, if The Outhouse had a counter for Marvel, what are the kind of things that would reset it? What are the things that typically reset the outhouse's counter? Like how big of a gently caress up are we talking here?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The way they portrayed Iceman coming out. Yeah, this is the one.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:What are the things that typically reset the outhouse's counter? Like how big of a gently caress up are we talking here? Though the Iceman thing *might* fit.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The way they portrayed Iceman coming out. Winner! Probably the Havoc "m word" speech before that. I don't remember any bad behind the scenes aside from KSD not getting an invite to the Marvel writter retreat and I'm unsure if that was a trend among the female creative staff.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 18:53
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:Winner!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
What is the story here with Iceman?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 19:46
|
|
|
Madkal posted:What is the story here with Iceman? I think people took it to mean that being gay was a choice since older iceman wasn't gay? But he's gay now anyway I think.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
Basically yeah they had young iceman be gay but adult totally wasn't we swear. So Bendis really didn't think it through.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
They're both gay and nobody ever said the older one wasn't that was just speculation because the older one didn't talk about it.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
I thought the controversy was that Jean Grey forcibly outed him instead of it being his choice.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Grabbed this right before he passed. RIP, good sir.  
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
X-O posted:They're both gay and nobody ever said the older one wasn't that was just speculation because the older one didn't talk about it. Yea there was never a big 'no old ice man is totes straight', it was old ice man not exactly being out because of the whole, ya know, literal different era thing. CapnAndy posted:I thought the controversy was that Jean Grey forcibly outed him instead of it being his choice. This is what made some people annoyed though, yea. A coming out story that involves some rando going 'hey you like cock, it's cool I know you do' is a pretty lovely coming out story for tons of reasons!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:I thought the controversy was that Jean Grey forcibly outed him instead of it being his choice. And the phrase "full on gay" or whatever it was she said made bisexual people, and people on behalf of bisexuals, super mad.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
profbobo posted:Grabbed this right before he passed. RIP, good sir. I hate you
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
BigRed0427 posted:For the people who follow Marvel much more closely, what was the last BIG gently caress up by Marvel. Like, if The Outhouse had a counter for Marvel, what are the kind of things that would reset it? Marvel doesn't have the editorial problems DC has, so it's more of an occasional slip up than a constant barrage of incompetence. Marvel should get a counter though just for the sake of comparison.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:I thought the controversy was that Jean Grey forcibly outed him instead of it being his choice. They couldn't decide what the controversy was because nobody complaining about it actually read the book.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
Nobby posted:They couldn't decide what the controversy was because nobody complaining about it actually read the book. That is what actually happened though. It was lovely but that is because Bendis loving hates Jean Grey.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Bendis loving hates Jean Grey. So you're saying you didn't read his All-New X-Men then.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:00
|
|
|
I did he just made her do lovely things like that constantly. It's cool if you didn't read it though, they weren't very good.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
It's not like they even had to read it. Nothing else in the run or even the previous pages of the book lead up to it, it was out of nowhere. Edit: Wait, I thought you were just criticizing the reaction. You're actually defending the comic? That's terrible. You're terrible. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
I feel as though there would have been a "Has Marvel done something stupid today?" counter back during Joe Q's tenure as EiC. Part of DC's issue is that they have Dan DiDio, Jim Lee and Geoff Johns who have been the dominant figures in the company for the past decade or so at both the creative and editorial levels, and very publicly so as well. When Quesada was number-one at Marvel, he had a similar profile, so there was a face to attach all the company's failures and shortcomings to, especially given his hands-on approach to the role; you can directly attribute, for example, the outcomes of OMD and House of M to his influence as editor-in-chief. Since he was replaced, there's been more of a distribution of authority (between Axel Alonso, Quesada as CCO and I guess Brevoort) compared with DC which, fairly or not, still seems to be centred very much around DiDio, Lee and Johns. By the same token, Brian Bendis, who's Marvel's equivalent to Geoff Johns, hasn't really been the company's franchise player for a while now - at least not like he was from 2005-2010 or thereabouts. That was Hickman until just recently, and I feel like there's a deeper bench of potential successors at Marvel than at DC; Johns has been the number-one guy at DC for around 10 years at this point and I'm not really sure who's going to be the next big thing now that he's taking a step back from comics. Tom King should probably get the big push.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
A lot of people didn't read any of it outside of a few panels on the Internet. And Bendis's thesis statement for Teen Jean Grey was basically "a teenage telepath would not handle it half as well as most portrayals have shown" which led to her doing a lot of dumb/clumsy/bad stuff, which I do not think = "hates Jean Grey" but comics chat generally deals in absolutes and everything sucks or rules and everyone loves or hates things and there's at least an 80% chance any line of dialogue or panel in a comic is A GIANT gently caress YOU to someone or other. Marvel caught a fair bit of flack for bisexual erasure when the new Hercules book launched and the writer or editor said something to the effect that they don't think of Hercules as an LGBT character. There was another one of those a few years back, but it was a lot more tenuous and I believe involving confusing Maria Hill (who has never been portrayed as anything but heterosexual) and Victoria Hand (who was always a lesbian). There was also the whole thing in Remender's Cap when Falcon and Jet Black had sex and if you didn't read the book you could read a blog post about how Jet Black is underage if you ignore there were two time jumps in Dimension Z and not one. Much like Havok's "M-Word" speech I believe that one was exacerbated by Remender not responding well at all to it on the Internet. There is also arguably the frequently hilarious attempts to eliminate X-Men and FF characters from merchandise and other products, but I think most people accept that as a high-level management decision and not like Axel Alonso and Ellie Pyle sitting around burning old issues of New Mutants and going gently caress YOU gently caress YOU gently caress YOU HA HA HA IF YOU LIKE GALACTUS EAT A DICK STRAIGHT UP LOSER
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
I get that statement and doing it that way once is fine but Jean did it several times over a comic that was at that point at like issue 40? My point is it was clumsy and dumb which is honestly more insulting then hating the character. Which I still think he does considering she does the most rear end in a top hat sh things. Though I know you like being smug over being correct so that doesn't bother me.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Though I know you like being smug over being correct so that doesn't bother me.  i'm a real peice of poo poo why did i even post thanks for being cool and articulating your point so well we had this awesome discussion.Wheat Loaf posted:I feel as though there would have been a "Has Marvel done something stupid today?" counter back during Joe Q's tenure as EiC. Part of DC's issue is that they have Dan DiDio, Jim Lee and Geoff Johns who have been the dominant figures in the company for the past decade or so at both the creative and editorial levels, and very publicly so as well. When Quesada was number-one at Marvel, he had a similar profile, so there was a face to attach all the company's failures and shortcomings to, especially given his hands-on approach to the role; you can directly attribute, for example, the outcomes of OMD and House of M to his influence as editor-in-chief. Since he was replaced, there's been more of a distribution of authority (between Axel Alonso, Quesada as CCO and I guess Brevoort) compared with DC which, fairly or not, still seems to be centred very much around DiDio, Lee and Johns. I think you have a point though, because Didio/Lee/Johns are just relentlessly the face of whatever big DC project is coming out, whereas Marvel for whatever reason does a better job of "Nick Spencer talks about his Cap stuff" or "Hickman is interviewed about Secret Wars" or "Sana Amanat goes on talk shows about Ms. Marvel" where I feel like if anything ever happens at DC is it Lee, Didio, or Johns front and center.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:I get that statement and doing it that way once is fine but Jean did it several times over a comic that was at that point at like issue 40? My point is it was clumsy and dumb which is honestly more insulting then hating the character. Which I still think he does considering she does the most rear end in a top hat sh things. Better than being smug over being incorrect.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
X-O posted:Better than being smug over being incorrect. That is the same thing love.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
No, I'm saying he's actually correct about everything he's saying there. So if you want to be smug, better to be correct.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:no ur right I like how you specifically cut out the part of the paragraph that was my argument. A thing you have complained about in the past.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
X-O posted:No, I'm saying he's actually correct about everything he's saying there. So if you want to be smug, better to be correct. None of anything he said is relevant to why people didn't like the Iceman thing.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:So what you're saying is three people at DC get more flak than three people at Marvel because they're three people instead of three? Nah, I was trying to say what you went on to say, except I didn't articulate it terribly well.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 01:10
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:None of anything he said is relevant to why people didn't like the Iceman thing. That's because he was responding to Charlesthehammer's comments about Jean Grey's portrayal in the run specifically, not about the general Iceman topic.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:comics chat generally deals in absolutes and everything sucks or rules and everyone loves or hates things and there's at least an 80% chance any line of dialogue or panel in a comic is A GIANT gently caress YOU to someone or other. I wanted to quote this portion on its own because it speaks truth to me.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
I think the weirdest fallout from the Iceman outing is, much like with the whole Caitlyn Jenner debacle, Family Guy is apparently psychic.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2016 03:52
|
|
