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doverhog posted:I take issue with groups attacking other groups for political reasons. There are no attacks taking place there before the conflict. By all means, all individuals and groups must defend themselves. What do you think nazis do when left unsupervised? And what do you think using the police to fight nazis is? Or the army?
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May 27, 2016 22:43
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OwlFancy is it your honest opinion that an antifa group is the only or best way to deal with nazis? Because that seems bizarre to me. The police should fight the nazis if they break the law. The army does not get involved.
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May 27, 2016 22:46
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doverhog posted:I take issue with groups attacking other groups for political reasons. There are no attacks taking place there before the conflict. By all means, all individuals and groups must defend themselves. Do you not understand that antifa doesn't generally consist of "let's all go down and harass people to see if they voted Front Nationale," but mainly as counterformations to fash marches and demonstrations?
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May 27, 2016 22:47
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Is doverhog honestly unable to comprehend the difference between how things should be and how things actually are or what?
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May 27, 2016 22:48
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doverhog posted:OwlFancy is it your honest opinion that an antifa group is the only or best way to deal with nazis? Because that seems bizarre to me. The police should fight the nazis if they break the law. The army does not get involved. I've said plenty of times that my preferred way to deal with them would be to have a police force willing and able to do so, with the resources and commitment to upholding the public welfare in that manner. As we do not have one of those, I would prefer antifash than intimidated, beaten, or dead minorities. Once again, it is possible to support both a police response and antifa.
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May 27, 2016 22:48
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Hey, I give my full blessing to counterformations. Just do not engage in violence. I mean loving Jesus i did not thinkg this would be so controversial. Do not engage in violence.
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May 27, 2016 22:49
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doverhog posted:Hey, I give my full blessing to counterformations. Just do not engage in violence. I mean loving Jesus i did not thinkg this would be so controversial. Do not engage in violence. Well, turns out Nazzies are prone to getting violent themselves!
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May 27, 2016 22:50
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doverhog posted:Hey, I give my full blessing to counterformations. Just do not engage in violence. I mean loving Jesus i did not thinkg this would be so controversial. Do not engage in violence. What do you do when the other side doesn't abide by that rule?
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May 27, 2016 22:51
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doverhog posted:Hey, I give my full blessing to counterformations. Just do not engage in violence. I mean loving Jesus i did not thinkg this would be so controversial. Do not engage in violence. Hey doverhog, would you personally be willing to stand in front of a nazi mob marching down the street and remain non-violent even when they start grinding your face into the pavement? If not, why do you feel the moral right to demand this of others?
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May 27, 2016 22:53
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Then you defend yourselves. If that's what's going on, gz, you are in the clear.
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May 27, 2016 22:53
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doverhog posted:Then you defend yourselves. If that's what's going on, gz, you are in the clear. That is, generally, how antifash protests work, you realize? Fash organize a march, antifash organize to show up and get in their way, fash and antifash start fighting each other instead of fash fighting anyone unfortunate enough to be in the area at the time, fash run away and hide in a bin, antifash get arrested, try and get each other home in one piece, go for a drink afterwards.
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May 27, 2016 22:55
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Ok? My argument was never about that, but rather about how political terrorism is not ok regardless of the side.
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May 27, 2016 22:59
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I've asked it a lot but you said you were fine with having an army. How do you reconcile that with your dislike of "political terrorism"? Certainly I can make a similar argument about the police but it's much easier with the army.
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May 27, 2016 23:02
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An army mainly is there so it can interact with external actors if needed. Ideally all of earth would be one country, but as that's not the case, the army ensures that the political leadership of a country has machinery of violence to back up it's decisions. This is important, because political decisions without a gun or a sword to back them up mean nothing.
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May 27, 2016 23:06
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doverhog posted:An army mainly is there so it can interact with external actors if needed. Ideally all of earth would be one country, but as that's not the case, the army ensures that the political leadership of a country has machinery of violence to back up it's decisions. This is important, because political decisions without a gun or a sword to back them up mean nothing. So, essentially, you condone the use of violence collectively to enforce a political decision? Even in the face of democratic disagreement (we assume that other nations also have a democratic mandate for the actions of their military?)
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May 27, 2016 23:10
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That's a big assumption to make, but anyway, a country can only follow it's own democratic decisions.
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May 27, 2016 23:13
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doverhog posted:That's a big assumption to make, but anyway, a country can only follow it's own democratic decisions. That's not very internationalist of you. What, out of curiosity, gives a country a right of sovereignty but not any other group?
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May 27, 2016 23:14
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The weight of history, the fact that a country has people born in it who believe they are of the country. The fact that the country came in to being to reflect the reality of the people living in the area. The fact that citizens of that country probably fought wars for it, and their descendants remember that. You have a vote, does our country have this right? Does this other random group? No need to even have the vote everyone knows how that would turn out. It's not internationalist, but that's a lost cause. It's trying to take a shortcut. It will never work.
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May 27, 2016 23:19
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That seems like a kind of elaborate phrasing of the is-ought argument. It is this way therefore it has moral authority and ought to be this way. It also, frankly, places a great deal of faith in the democraticness of our current political system.
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May 27, 2016 23:25
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OwlFancier posted:It also, frankly, places a great deal of faith in the democraticness of our current political system. Do you have an alternative? If you know how Sekhmet might instruct us, please share. Lacking that, we place our faith in systems we know are imperfect, and hope for the best.
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May 27, 2016 23:43
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doverhog posted:That's a big assumption to make, but anyway, a country can only follow it's own democratic decisions. Anti-European Union I take it?
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May 27, 2016 23:44
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doverhog posted:Do you have an alternative? If you know how Sekhmet might instruct us, please share. Lacking that, we place our faith in systems we know are imperfect, and hope for the best. Direct action where the state will not protect us, or when it acts to directly oppress us, in the name of justice and equal freedom for all people, not simply inertia of the status quo. Liberal democracy has many benefits but it is not perfect, and should not be supported where it fails to serve. Sometimes there are clear, and better, actions that can be taken. Such as, for example having no tolerance for nazis. Rather than shrugging and saying "welp guess we'll have to write "NO NAZIS" on the ballot next election and hope they get the message." OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:50 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 23:46
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Brainiac Five posted:Do you not understand that antifa doesn't generally consist of "let's all go down and harass people to see if they voted Front Nationale," but mainly as counterformations to fash marches and demonstrations? Yeah the closest most antifa participants get to hurting a fascist is shooting them in Call of Duty or whatever.
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May 28, 2016 00:21
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So the big takeaway here is that fascists are bad, we should round all them up and exterminate them. Also exterminate this topic.
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May 28, 2016 00:48
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Cat Mattress posted:So the big takeaway here is that fascists are bad, we should round all them up and exterminate them. Also exterminate this topic. Why exactly does your postcount in this thread give you the ability to dictate the course of it? Or is it some other factor that makes "Also exterminate this topic." anything more than puling and whining?
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May 28, 2016 00:52
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I'm glad we had this talk about how street violence is bad.
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May 28, 2016 00:54
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Brainiac Five posted:Why exactly does your postcount in this thread give you the ability to dictate the course of it? Or is it some other factor that makes "Also exterminate this topic." anything more than puling and whining? The other factor is that this tangent is boring.
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May 28, 2016 01:03
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Third one is forums poster bRianiac five being an insuffrable twat who should quit posting forever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2016 01:05
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Cat Mattress posted:The other factor is that this tangent is boring. Feel free to contribute an alternative topic.
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May 28, 2016 01:16
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Friendly Humour posted:Third one is forums poster bRianiac five being an insuffrable twat who should quit posting forever. PM me and I'll provide you with the means to ensure this... if you dare. Cat Mattress posted:The other factor is that this tangent is boring. The Germans and Austrians posting about how much suffering they inflict on humanity is an exhausting thing to read, but you don't see me whining like a tiny little baby about it.
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May 28, 2016 01:20
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What is this thread for actually? The nazi Austria? E: Austrian* 😂 SSJ2 Goku Wilders fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 28, 2016 |
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May 28, 2016 07:57
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this thread is now about hot pics of CGT leader Philippe Martinez, who is cool and good 
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May 28, 2016 08:15
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ElNarez posted:this thread is now about hot pics of CGT leader Philippe Martinez, who is cool and good  HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!
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May 28, 2016 08:35
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OwlFancier posted:Direct action where the state will not protect us, or when it acts to directly oppress us, in the name of justice and equal freedom for all people, not simply inertia of the status quo. Justice isn't doled out by the mob or by any self-righteous sub-section of the mob, so when the state isn't doing its duty to protect the people, you go protest against the state instead of cackling with glee at the opportunity to finally live the dream (of a mad max world with extra frontier justice). Y'all antifa are trash only half a step above the actual fash so I hope you're second
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May 30, 2016 22:35
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Justice isn't doled out by the mob or by any self-righteous sub-section of the mob, so when the state isn't doing its duty to protect the people, you go protest against the state instead of cackling with glee at the opportunity to finally live the dream (of a mad max world with extra frontier justice). Yo... you have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
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May 30, 2016 23:32
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Tesseraction posted:Yo... you have no idea what you're talking about, do you? hes of course speaking of an ought, the platonic ideal of what ordered societies try to be. reality is different
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May 31, 2016 00:18
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This reality doesn't seem rational enough. Clearly, it does not exist.
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May 31, 2016 00:21
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what if the people who fought the nazis were the real nazis??!?! makes u thingk
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May 31, 2016 00:29
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John Stalvern waited. The streetlights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were fascists in the city. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway. John was an antifash for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the riots and he said to dad "I want to be on the riots daddy." Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY THE MAN" There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the alleyway streets of the city he knew there were fascists. "This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the fascists!" So John gotted his motolov cocktail and blew up the wall. "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the fascists "I will shoot at him" said the gang leader and he fired the tacticlol guns. John molotoved at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill. "No! I must kill the fascists" he shouted The radio said "No, John. You are the fascists" And then John was a nazi.
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May 31, 2016 00:41
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Does anyone know what's the status of the Ukraine visa agreement? All I can find is months old and no indication where it is in the pipeline.
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May 31, 2016 13:23
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