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Larry Parrish posted:Uhhh well it's actually good that you pay $80 for what would have been a $20 expansion 3 years ago, or a launch feature 5 years ago. Hmm yes I pine for the EU3 development cycle, where you paid $20 to turn Ming into an unplayable nation and make Japan a buggy mess that was only properly sorted out in EU4.
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May 27, 2016 07:50
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Larry Parrish posted:Uhhh well it's actually good that you pay $80 for what would have been a $20 expansion 3 years ago, or a launch feature 5 years ago. Wow dude... talking poo poo about Paradox's DLC policy... when it's actually super fair? Don't you remember when they added development and got rid of buildings in EU4? Free patch feature. You don't have to look at buildings anymore. That's on the house.
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May 27, 2016 07:50
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Larry Parrish posted:Uhhh well it's actually good that you pay $80 for what would have been a $20 expansion 3 years ago, or a launch feature 5 years ago. I'm the original Crusader Kings ability to play non-Christian nations as a feature officially supported ever much less a launch feature.
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May 27, 2016 07:57
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Jazerus posted:Hmm yes I pine for the EU3 development cycle, where you paid $20 to turn Ming into an unplayable nation and make Japan a buggy mess that was only properly sorted out in EU4. Thank you. As someone who got into Paradox when they were still kinda niche, the new model is way loving better and the people who complain about it don't know what it was like.
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May 27, 2016 08:33
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Jazerus posted:Hmm yes I pine for the EU3 development cycle, where you paid $20 to turn Ming into an unplayable nation and make Japan a buggy mess that was only properly sorted out in EU4. you forgot the best part: horde mechanics
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May 27, 2016 08:46
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PleasingFungus posted:you forgot the best part: horde mechanics Please insert a trigger warning and at least ten lines of white space at the beginning of your post 
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May 27, 2016 08:59
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my most memorable eu3 multiplayer game was one i played with friends, some time after divine wind came out. they were various european countries; I was the golden horde. i started the game by conquering muscovy, and then continued from there, swallowing everything in my path in an unceasing and unstoppable wave of destruction. i was midway through austria in 1420 with no signs of slowing when, finally, the game crashed. tbh i think my friends were just grateful it did... of course, that was the good side of horde mechanics.
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May 27, 2016 09:06
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Paradox DLC model is the best, great games getting even better, (at some point bloated and If you dont like that you just roll back?) I dont see why people have a problem with it. You might argue they hold out on features or whatever to add as dlc, but thats probably not how game development work. Also more money for paradox is good, just buy the poo poo on sale if its too expensive. Edit: But im a biased fanboy, since I've been playing pdx games since I was 9. Zombiepop fucked around with this message at 09:35 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 09:32
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Zombiepop posted:Paradox DLC model is the best, great games getting even better, (at some point bloated and If you dont like that you just roll back?) Because people want to have their cake and eat it too. There's a dichotomy between the old model of "pay $50, get the game and a few bugfix patches" and the Paradox model of "pay a slightly less amount up-front for the base game, but we'll also continue developing the game over the next half-decade, giving you more and more at a relatively reasonable price each time." Also Paradox stuff goes on sale ridiculously often and people who bitch about it can pick up the DLC for like $3 in 6 months.
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May 27, 2016 09:57
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My only real complaint is that, because the DLC features have to be able to stand on their own, they are not properly integrated into the main game (as old expansion features would have the leisure to be). They're things that your game is supposed to be able to handle not being there, and they have to be able to stand on their own which doesn't always make for a very cohesive gameplay experience. Estates is probably the biggest offender in this, where everyone was happy at the prospect of internal management, and then it turned into an unimportant attention grabber, because guess what, the game has to be able to work without estates as well, so they cannot really be a core gameplay feature.
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May 27, 2016 10:03
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PleasingFungus posted:you forgot the best part: horde mechanics What horde mechanics? You mean Bohemian Eurasia?
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May 27, 2016 10:45
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Did you get that av to go along with your redtext? 
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May 27, 2016 10:47
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PleasingFungus posted:you forgot the best part: horde mechanics HttR-era hordes were fun and balanced, it's just DW that ruined everything it touched(except the map).
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May 27, 2016 11:06
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Kavak posted:Did you get that av to go along with your redtext? No I added the AV myself because I got complaints that people were missing my dev comments. But kept the red text so the guy who put in all that effort and money wouldn't feel unappreciated.
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May 27, 2016 12:31
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YF-23 posted:My only real complaint is that, because the DLC features have to be able to stand on their own, they are not properly integrated into the main game (as old expansion features would have the leisure to be). They're things that your game is supposed to be able to handle not being there, and they have to be able to stand on their own which doesn't always make for a very cohesive gameplay experience. Estates is probably the biggest offender in this, where everyone was happy at the prospect of internal management, and then it turned into an unimportant attention grabber, because guess what, the game has to be able to work without estates as well, so they cannot really be a core gameplay feature. I think with the DLC going so far back they should eventually put down a cutoff and say release a "EU4 Complete" with things now just being considered core features. Of course, this wouldn't be the COMPLETE game because there would be more DLC later. (Chronicles/Complete is the dumbest loving thing.)
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May 27, 2016 16:44
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Yeah, I can't be mad with Paradox for the DLC-expansions. There's no other company their size putting out regular updates for a 4 year old game. It takes money to pay for the developers for 4 years; you can't expect them to do that for free. My only concern is this:YF-23 posted:My only real complaint is that, because the DLC features have to be able to stand on their own, they are not properly integrated into the main game (as old expansion features would have the leisure to be). They're things that your game is supposed to be able to handle not being there, and they have to be able to stand on their own which doesn't always make for a very cohesive gameplay experience. Estates is probably the biggest offender in this, where everyone was happy at the prospect of internal management, and then it turned into an unimportant attention grabber, because guess what, the game has to be able to work without estates as well, so they cannot really be a core gameplay feature.
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May 27, 2016 17:17
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Zombiepop posted:Paradox DLC model is the best, great games getting even better, (at some point bloated and If you dont like that you just roll back?) because if i want to play the full EU4 experience i have to literally spend 270 euros and 290 if i want CK2. Paradox look at the train simulator market and is beating them at their own game.
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May 27, 2016 23:26
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Mans posted:because if i want to play the full EU4 experience i have to literally spend 270 euros and 290 if i want CK2. Wow, you're totally right. Paradox DLCs are of a quality below even the most rushed cosmetic train DLC. How they can force this crap down our throats is beyond me.
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May 27, 2016 23:35
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Mans posted:because if i want to play the full EU4 experience i have to literally spend 270 euros and 290 if i want CK2. the full eu4 experience, feat. National Monuments II: "new graphical national monuments for the already stunning Europa Universalis IV map", and Colonial British and French Unit pack: "16 new unique unit models for British and French colonial troops". your game just won't be complete without them!
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May 27, 2016 23:56
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Odobenidae posted:Wow, you're totally right. Paradox DLCs are of a quality below even the most rushed cosmetic train DLC. How they can force this crap down our throats is beyond me. Most of the DLC really is cosmetic train DLC though, as PleasingFungus just illustrated. A lot of the expansion DLC is fairly minimal content for its price. I also think it's pretty questionable whether EU4 at the moment is actually an improvement over EU4 Art of War, so I'm not really sure prolonging the development of these games for years is really a positive point.
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May 28, 2016 00:00
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if you haven't purchased all 270 euros ($260, lmao @ euro pricing) of eu4 game content at full price, you are missing out on the Art of War Official ebook, featuring "a preface by project lead Thomas Johansson with advice on how to apply Sun Tzu’s teachings to this very complex and multi-layered game." and, at that point, the game is pretty much just a pale shadow of itself - without that, why even bother?
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May 28, 2016 00:01
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I've really enjoyed the paid DLC for CKII. Adding shattered retreat and coalitions with a patch wasn't great but they've worked to listen to the community on that, and now they'll be toggle-able rules. Not bad all told.
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May 28, 2016 00:03
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Frosted Flake posted:I've really enjoyed the paid DLC for CKII. I think some of the DLC was really good, and some of the DLC was not so good. I honestly just want CK3 at this point rather than more DLC though. That's how I feel about all of these games really. I want new and innovative ideas, not just 'more content' slapped on top of the existing model.
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May 28, 2016 00:05
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the different religions and gov types are fun. some work better than others, but stuff like the aztec doom mechanic & the merchant republic state limit + trade leagues are very neat. but I do agree that the game has more than enough systems that apply to everyone.
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May 28, 2016 00:12
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Mans posted:because if i want to play the full EU4 experience i have to literally spend 270 euros and 290 if i want CK2. Yeah, and if you want to play WoW for a year, it is a solid $180 Some people are fine with paying that. If you are not, then don't
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May 28, 2016 00:24
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Mans posted:because if i want to play the full EU4 experience i have to literally spend 270 euros and 290 if i want CK2. Never heard of this newfangled Steam sale nonsense, well, guess I'll pay 300 euros Edit: Like I'm not trying to be an rear end in a top hat here but I have literally never paid more than half price for Paradox DLC and most of it was at 75% off. The nice thing about this model is that you can be perfectly content with the free patches until the DLC goes on sale because the most important additions are actually the free ones. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 28, 2016 |
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May 28, 2016 00:24
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PleasingFungus posted:the different religions and gov types are fun. some work better than others, but stuff like the aztec doom mechanic & the merchant republic state limit + trade leagues are very neat. When DLC is doing that, adding systems to an already existing feature of a subset of countries, that works great. Giving trade republics unique trade mechanics works great. Giving the Hindu countries religious mechanics works great. And that works well because systems on top of those features are always "tacked on". The Catholic cardinal game is "tacked on" on Catholics, but doesn't feel like it stretches them, because it's a subset of a feature (religion) rather than something fundamental. With features like Estates, because it's a DLC feature it has to be tacked on for the game to work without it, even if it's something that should be fundamental (internal management). The limitations of DLC features do not mesh well with user expectations or ambitious development. And, having played with estates a few times (in multiplayer at any rate), I wouldn't say they're as bad as people here like to say, but rather underwhelming instead. Then you have stuff like CK2's conclave which actually manages to knock it out of the park by being super well integrated into the game's fundamental mechanics. But CK2 is also less of a boardgame so comparison is actually not all that easy.
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May 28, 2016 00:28
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How is shattered retreats a bad addition to CK2, I thought it would have been nice but I haven't played it in like six+ months
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May 28, 2016 02:54
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YF-23 posted:When DLC is doing that, adding systems to an already existing feature of a subset of countries, that works great. Giving trade republics unique trade mechanics works great. Giving the Hindu countries religious mechanics works great. And that works well because systems on top of those features are always "tacked on". The Catholic cardinal game is "tacked on" on Catholics, but doesn't feel like it stretches them, because it's a subset of a feature (religion) rather than something fundamental. Estates are bad and conclave is worse
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May 28, 2016 03:28
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TeenageArchipelago posted:Yeah, and if you want to play WoW for a year, it is a solid $180 Some people spend $15000 on fake space ships. Some purchasing decisions should be made fun of, and clicking 'buy all' to Paradox DLC not during a steam sale, is one of those purchasing decisions.
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May 28, 2016 03:29
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StashAugustine posted:How is shattered retreats a bad addition to CK2, I thought it would have been nice but I haven't played it in like six+ months ck2 doesn't have forts, so instead of giving you the ability to fight a grindy war of attrition and out-economy a militarily superior foe, all it really means is that wars take longer to resolve.
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May 28, 2016 04:23
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Some people spend $15000 on fake space ships. Some purchasing decisions should be made fun of, and clicking 'buy all' to Paradox DLC not during a steam sale, is one of those purchasing decisions. Digital images of fake space ships.
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May 28, 2016 08:56
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PleasingFungus posted:the full eu4 experience, feat. National Monuments II: "new graphical national monuments for the already stunning Europa Universalis IV map", and Colonial British and French Unit pack: "16 new unique unit models for British and French colonial troops". your game just won't be complete without them! Preach. lovely devs like PARA-DO$H!!!(Paradox) are why I can't enjoy games anymore . Same poo poo with Valve, if I wanted the full PC TF2 experience I'd have to be a millionaire just so I can get every single hat and DLC item. gently caress that, I'll stick with The Orange Box for the 360.
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May 28, 2016 09:04
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PleasingFungus posted:if you haven't purchased all 270 euros ($260, lmao @ euro pricing) of eu4 game content at full price, you are missing out on the Art of War Official ebook, featuring "a preface by project lead Thomas Johansson with advice on how to apply Sun Tzu’s teachings to this very complex and multi-layered game." and, at that point, the game is pretty much just a pale shadow of itself - without that, why even bother? Wait, why lmao, it seems that Americans are getting hosed with the pricing for once
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May 28, 2016 10:27
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Phlegmish posted:Wait, why lmao, it seems that Americans are getting hosed with the pricing for once 270 euro is about $300.
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May 28, 2016 10:29
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Holy poo poo  I even know the approximate exchange rate, should have thought my post through.So it's unfortunately business as usual.
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May 28, 2016 10:33
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https://steamdb.info/app/236850/ I wish I was Russian.
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May 28, 2016 12:14
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GrossMurpel posted:https://steamdb.info/app/236850/ *were
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May 28, 2016 13:31
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GrossMurpel posted:https://steamdb.info/app/236850/ Britishness is suffering 
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May 28, 2016 13:52
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V for Vegas posted:Very interesting to see Tencent has bought 5% of the Paradox IPO. more like Tibet confirmed for being removed in release patch for HoI4
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May 28, 2016 14:34
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