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Sickening posted:The process of draft and who owns the cards has been clearly defined for a decade now. No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yes absolutely. You can reach out to WPN. Helene Bergeot would love to hear about any store doing this. Hold your ground, do not hand over your cards, and warn them that if they try to enforce this they will lose their WPN sanction.
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May 27, 2016 23:39
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Tell your lovely Store Owner to read this:MTR 2.10 posted:Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time. If it's a sanctioned event, you can drop at any time and walk. That being said, while Grognard-Owner cannot enforce a confiscation policy, he can ban you from his venue (which would be a lovely thing to do), and if he does I'd reach out to WPN/Helen/the plethora of player resources for just such lovely action. Chill la Chill posted:No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too.
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May 27, 2016 23:39
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Mikujin posted:Tell your lovely Store Owner to read this: I might just try this. I'll be sure to extract all my store credit from the store beforehand.
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May 27, 2016 23:40
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Chill la Chill posted:No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too. You're from Pittsburgh-ish right? Is this where I think it is because if it is we had the same argument with God packs back in the day.
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May 27, 2016 23:41
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suicidesteve posted:You're from Pittsburgh-ish right? Is this where I think it is because if it is we had the same argument with God packs back in the day. I thought Chill was from like Hawaii or something?
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May 27, 2016 23:41
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Eh that kind of hedges with end the reserve list for thunder spirit but maybe not the expensive cards people want.
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May 27, 2016 23:41
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Chill la Chill posted:No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too. Chill la Chill posted:No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too. Pming the store name to me would be a good start but also emailing wotc directly. Google report a store and the address is pretty easy to find. Make sure to include a picture of any flyers.
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May 27, 2016 23:43
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Chill la Chill posted:I might just try this. I'll be sure to extract all my store credit from the store beforehand.
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May 27, 2016 23:44
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suicidesteve posted:You're from Pittsburgh-ish right? Is this where I think it is because if it is we had the same argument with God packs back in the day. Mikujin posted:I thought Chill was from like Hawaii or something?
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May 27, 2016 23:44
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As for where to report, just Contact WotC Customer Support with the incident/whatever information you have to get things started. Typically these get forwarded to the WPN who will investigate further, but when it comes to stores trying to really gently caress players over they're usually pretty good about moving quick.
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May 27, 2016 23:47
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There's no physical evidence yet aside from verbal announcements. I'm guessing it's just chest puffing but I really want an incident to happen so their WOTC support gets cut.
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May 27, 2016 23:47
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Actually it has not been clearly defined for a decade. MMA prompted WotC to actually change the policy, and many people do not realized the WotC has changed the policy to directly contradict what it used to say because it happened a long time after there was a huge outrage about it because of MMA. The old policy was that all draft/sealed materials were the property of the store until the end of the event. At the time TOs/judges declared that GP Las Vegas would allow anyone to drop if they opened multiple foil Tarmogoyfs or something because there was a big scare about people being forced to pass their pools worth $500. I don't know exactly when the policy was turned on its head but I know that it was not within the months following the first big MMA GP, and that the policy was in its current state before MM2015 came out. It was never made public knowledge in any sort of major announcement, and it's no surprise any store wouldn't know the policy was changed.
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May 27, 2016 23:49
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Chill la Chill posted:There's no physical evidence yet aside from verbal announcements. I'm guessing it's just chest puffing but I really want an incident to happen so their WOTC support gets cut.
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May 27, 2016 23:49
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I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? What's the point? I mean you get a pity pack for playing and losing don't you? So even if you just raredraft 3+ rares and suck at the game you still get another pack if you just play, I mean why not at least get that pack? I get it with rare redrafts because that's loving stupid, but not if there's only packs on the line.
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May 27, 2016 23:49
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Ultima66 posted:Actually it has not been clearly defined for a decade. MMA prompted WotC to actually change the policy, and many people do not realized the WotC has changed the policy to directly contradict what it used to say because it happened a long time after there was a huge outrage about it because of MMA. The old policy was that all draft/sealed materials were the property of the store until the end of the event. At the time TOs/judges declared that GP Las Vegas would allow anyone to drop if they opened multiple foil Tarmogoyfs or something because there was a big scare about people being forced to pass their pools worth $500. The policy was revised sometime in 2013. Under old policy the TO/host technically owned product until you could legally drop (e.g. drafting/sealed pool registration) was complete, and there was a whole mess of other concerns with ownership and players bringing in their own product. Long story short we now have the new rules in the MTR which explicitly outline that players have ownership of anything they legally possess at the time they are removed/removed themselves from an event. E: Telex posted:I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? If you opened a pack with Foil Tarmogoyf and regular Tarmogoyf you'd be passing like $200 if you were forced to stay in the event. In those cases you want to drop, or if your LGS was cool, buy and replace the pack so you aren't forced to decide between drafting or giving up tons of money in value.
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May 27, 2016 23:53
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Telex posted:I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? If you have pulled say a $150 mythic and a $300 foil, no amount of EV aside from dubious pro tour rewards will cause a rational person to stay in the event for an unknown prize. This is about the principle and lovely behavior of the owner, however low the possibility it is to even affect me. I'm not usually that lucky.
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May 27, 2016 23:53
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Telex posted:I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? some people draft to crack packs  . people were dropping from gps just to get elspethsi've heard the discussion with regards to cards of much lower value. like I was drafting TPF and still pretty new at drafting and opened foil extirpate + damnation in a pack and people were like, i'd drop and take both but I was like gently caress that, take damnation, 3-0 easily,  .
Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:56 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 23:53
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Telex posted:I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? Vm2016 should have a foil per pack like mm2015 I believe. It's possible to get a bomb money card plus a foil money card.
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May 27, 2016 23:55
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Telex posted:I can't even imagine why you'd pay to draft, and then take your cards and leave? Because in the rare event that you open mana crypt/foil mana crypt, no one is going to want to pass it. Just like when MM2 drafts came out and people opened poo poo like goyf/foil clique or whatever. At our store we just have any verbal rule that if you open double high-value cards you can just keep that pack and buy another. The judge/owner has to see the pack to verify that you actually opened high value and not that you just don't like your p1p1.
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May 28, 2016 00:00
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Sickening posted:The process of draft and who owns the cards has been clearly defined for a decade now. I went to draft for the first time ever a couple months ago and asked the manager of my LGS if they did rare redraft. He asked what that was and then when I asked if we kept the cards he looked at me like I was an alien and said "Uh, yeah." My LGS is pretty swell.
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May 28, 2016 00:23
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Soul Glo posted:I went to draft for the first time ever a couple months ago and asked the manager of my LGS if they did rare redraft. He asked what that was and then when I asked if we kept the cards he looked at me like I was an alien and said "Uh, yeah." My best hope is that my LGS won't do rare redraft for EMA. It's hard to get better at drafting when it's a net loss every time. Either that or some miracle that I sell my Shardless Agents, and that a box is cheap enough that I can buy it and draft with people ("You come, we draft, I keep it all").
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May 28, 2016 00:37
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Serperoth posted:My best hope is that my LGS won't do rare redraft for EMA. It's hard to get better at drafting when it's a net loss every time. I'll probably feel pretty spoiled about my current one if/when I move and have to find a new one. Women show up and play at this one, people feel good enough about it to bring their kids, people have helped me learn to play when I make obvious newbie mistakes, etc. Couple weeks ago one of the employees even jumped in to draft so that it could fire when turnout was light due to Mother's Day (and he drafted a gimmick Mill mono U deck, went 0-2 and dropped). In general nothing like some of the horror stories I read ITT.
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May 28, 2016 01:01
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Chill la Chill posted:No, pack prizes. And I didn't know if there was some grey legal area where you could slip in a different definition of a draft that didn't include legal ownership of the cards involved. This has never come up cuz I wasn't around for MM drafting but he probably tried this poo poo then too. http://wpn.wizards.com/en/contact-us and/or tweet at Helene Bergeot @HeleneBergeot and tell her what happened.
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May 28, 2016 01:12
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I really want to play Faeries but Tron is giving such consistent results.  Tron is legitimately one of the easiest to play decks I've ever played. (Yes I realize Faeries is poo poo) Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 02:56 on May 28, 2016 |
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May 28, 2016 02:48
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Because in the rare event that you open mana crypt/foil mana crypt, no one is going to want to pass it. Just like when MM2 drafts came out and people opened poo poo like goyf/foil clique or whatever. At our store we just have any verbal rule that if you open double high-value cards you can just keep that pack and buy another. The judge/owner has to see the pack to verify that you actually opened high value and not that you just don't like your p1p1. I know there was a guy at the first MMA GP who opened something like 3 goyfs, foil goyf in his sealed pool that he was supposed to verify. Dude just dropped and played side events bc it turns out the odds of beating that at a gp are miniscule, and he still got to do side events all weekend lmao
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May 28, 2016 04:45
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I pulled the trigger and bought a playset of Goblin Guide. I was hesitant because I wasn't sure if I wanted to play burn but I somehow ended up trading in some of my infect for the deck and without Goblin Guide being reprinted I figured now was the best time.
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May 28, 2016 05:59
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Played BW Eldrazi Taxes at Modern FNM, didn't have a great showing but still went 3-1 from the losers bracket. Had mana difficulty a few times, trying to get WW or BW on turn 2 is tough with 8 colorless lands and 2 citpt lands. Flickerwisp underperformed for me all night. I rarely had a creature out I wanted to flicker and I rarely wanted to flicker my opponent's stuff. I feel like the deck is decent, but is splitting itself between Hatebears and Taxes - mastering neither decks benefit. The BW Eldrazi deck wants more exile effects for GY hate (likely relics main) and more creatures with etb effects. If the deck goes Taxes proper I feel there's an argument for UW Taxes, taking advantage of Force Spike creatures, Reflector Mages, Arbiter, Mindcensors, Thalia, and Vryn Wingmares.
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May 28, 2016 06:06
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If my opponent has fevered visions out and I play avaricious dragon, I draw from visions and presumably take damage before the dragon trigger makes me discard. Is that correct?
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May 28, 2016 07:12
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Chill la Chill posted:Is there any official statement from WOTC wrt dropping a tournament and keeping the cards? The grognard store owner at the LGS is threatening to ban someone who does at an EMA draft and may (implied, not actually said) confiscate their product. Can you report them to WOTC? I remember this being clearly stated at an MM GP. If you post the store name and a screen shot of the threat I'll have this dealt with.
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May 28, 2016 07:31
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Helene isn't who you want to go through. She's OP but not necessarily WPN which is trade marketing. Post or PM me the info pls.
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May 28, 2016 07:34
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Cactrot posted:If my opponent has fevered visions out and I play avaricious dragon, I draw from visions and presumably take damage before the dragon trigger makes me discard. Is that correct? Yep. Active player's triggers go on the stack first, then non-active player. So the Visions trigger ends up being on top and resolving first (unfortunately for the Dragon player).
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May 28, 2016 08:16
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C-Euro posted:Apropos of nothing, I've always wondered what the metagame would look like if every card was the same price. Would everyone run the same handful of "best" decks if price wasn't a deciding factor, or would people run more weird pet brews or rogue decks for the exact same reason? My experience playing paper Pauper, where all the decks are roughly the same price, at a store that runs weekly events with modest payouts would suggest people would play what they feel like playing that night. Basically everybody builds multiple decks and you could just borrow a deck off of some dude who brought 6 if you want a change of pace. When you can play affordable decks weekly and going 3-0 is only 2 more packs than 0-3, people build lots of decks to play with. Like one dude might jump between a bunch of good decks while another plays his pet deck week in and week out. Elyv posted:this is also true if you bring auras into play in any way other than via casting them and putting them on the stack(for instance, a Sun Titan attack), or if an aura is moved by a card like Aura Finesse. Rebels Vs Bogles is a funny matchup to observe 'cause a lot of Rebels tutor for more Rebels and put them directly into play. Bound In Silence is a Rebel. It doesn't target when tutored with the Rebel ability, which is something a Bogles player has probably never seen before and will need explained to them.  Rebels also plays Standard Bearer in the board, or, "OOPS all of your Auras are on my guy now"
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May 28, 2016 10:35
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Is GP Manchester being covered or is this one of the "we really want MTG to be a premium e-sport so we'll not actually broadcast most of the GP's" deal?
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May 28, 2016 10:37
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edit: nvm
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May 28, 2016 10:41
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Speaking of Pauper... if anybody is in town for GP Minneapolis and scrubs out early Pauper starts at 5pm at Universe games which is 2.2 miles from the convention center. Loaner decks are on hand. Walk Bus Public bike-share
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May 28, 2016 10:53
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AceClown posted:Is GP Manchester being covered or is this one of the "we really want MTG to be a premium e-sport so we'll not actually broadcast most of the GP's" deal? Yup, no GP this weekend is being streamed.
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May 28, 2016 11:52
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mehall posted:Yup, no GP this weekend is being streamed. rank loving amateurs
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May 28, 2016 12:05
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I think no scg streams either.
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May 28, 2016 12:09
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AceClown posted:rank loving amateurs 2 big standard GPs and no coverage haha
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May 28, 2016 12:37
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Balon posted:Played BW Eldrazi Taxes at Modern FNM, didn't have a great showing but still went 3-1 from the losers bracket. Yea the mana sucks. What are you playing that costs WW? Flickerwisp isn't always good bit it's a blowout when it works, like when you remove counters from something or kill a token. Late game you can use it with displacer to perma-flicker stuff or protect the displacer. Also it's your best attacker. Been practicing the deck but can't play it for real because nobody on puvatrade wants to send me Thalia or Shrines
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May 28, 2016 12:49
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