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basically, in civ5, overprioritising production is a trap, population is king. pop = science, and your tradition capital is the single most efficient conversion of pop and happiness to scienceJay Rust posted:That's a real oversimplification. You can know where a Civ V city's borders will end: three hexes in every direction. And you shouldn't just be building farms: growth is great but so are all of the buildings. Plus, you have Great Person tile improvements, reasons to keep jungles and forests intact, decisions regarding whether to build an alternate road through your cities... There's a lot to consider! pretty much only my capital will approach size 36+, and that's around the time i launch the spaceship. it takes way too long for a civ5 city to reach its cap also, most GP tile improvements are a trap
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May 28, 2016 00:38
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Phobophilia posted:basically, in civ5, overprioritising production is a trap, population is king. pop = science, and your tradition capital is the single most efficient conversion of pop and happiness to science Care to explain?
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May 28, 2016 00:47
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I like the idea of farms and mines slowly giving way to specialized districts as you need less of them to support the city which starts sprawling out. It sounds to me like tile improvements are going to change more often, whereas in V you'd build a farm and it would sit there for 3000 years uninterrupted.
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May 28, 2016 00:47
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Jastiger posted:Care to explain? I believe the theory is that any improvement that does not optimize for food is a 'trap'. So the only GP Improvement that is viable would be the Great Merchant's Town. Engineers are better spent on Wonders, Scientists on bulbing, Prophets on religion spreading, etc...
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May 28, 2016 00:53
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engineers are important for wonder rushing and snowballing their benefits, while scientists make all those endgame techs disappear in a blink of an eye and if you popped a great merchant, then you done hosed up, because that delays scientists
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May 28, 2016 01:01
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Jastiger posted:This is how I play too lol. Mega optimized is 1300. That's with map settings designed for finishing as fast as possible, and rerolling for a good start, which you might consider cheating as well. Oh and exploiting the fact that building settlers sets your food production to 0 even if it would normally be negative.
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May 28, 2016 01:07
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Staltran posted:Oh and exploiting the fact that building settlers sets your food production to 0 even if it would normally be negative. oh come on, this has been known for ages, you always set your cities to max hammers and no food while pumping settlers
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May 28, 2016 01:13
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Jastiger posted:Care to explain? Academies can be worth building in the early game, but typically if you're hyper-optimizing, you want to spend all your Great Scientists 11 turns after you finish building Universities in all your cities (since GS bulb points are worth 10 turns' worth of science output). Any Great Engineers/Merchants you get make your Great Scientists more expensive, so you don't want to generate any of those, unless there's a wonder you need in which case you use a Great Engineer to rush it rather than risk getting sniped. Artists/Musicians can't make tile improvements. Great Prophets can, but you should make at most two of those, one to found a religion and the second to enhance it. The rest of your faith points should be banked for buying Great Scientists in the late game. Again, this is only for hyper-optimization. You can absolutely play on Emperor while mostly ignoring all this...though probably not while also ignoring the importance of emphasizing population.
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May 28, 2016 01:21
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Ah cool. I still don't see how getting food does it. I was playing as Brazil and had TONS of food. SO MUCH FOOD. But i couldn't build anything so I lagged all game simply because I didn't have enough hammer output to build science buildings in a timely manner. I don't see how you do it!
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May 28, 2016 01:35
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:you want to spend all your Great Scientists 11 turns after you finish building Universities in all your cities (since GS bulb points are worth 10 turns' worth of science output) Is that how that works? I thought it was the 10 turns of science before the Great Scientist was born.
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May 28, 2016 01:43
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Is that how that works? I thought it was the 10 turns of science before the Great Scientist was born. In retrospect, it works that way for Great Musicians, which is why if you're going for a culture victory you probably want to hold off on building the musician's guild until later in the game. But no, the value of Great Scientists is continually updated. Jastiger posted:Ah cool. I still don't see how getting food does it. I was playing as Brazil and had TONS of food. SO MUCH FOOD. But i couldn't build anything so I lagged all game simply because I didn't have enough hammer output to build science buildings in a timely manner. I don't see how you do it! You can't have no hammers. Jungle starts are infamous for giving you tons of food and no ability to build things -- all it takes is to have a shortage of hills and your capital that would be absolutely lovely on turn 200 is kind of useless right now.
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May 28, 2016 01:51
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Nope, great scientists are definitely the last 10 turns, rather than the 10 turns leading up to the great scientist spawning.
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May 28, 2016 03:26
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Huh, the more you know!
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May 28, 2016 03:54
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I'm looking forward to this already. I think it looks pretty great too despite the change in art style, though I do wish they could have retained the clarity they're apparently going for using a realistic style. I think the terrain is going to end up looking a bit lifeless and boring after a while. I especially wish the cities looked realistic. I said in another thread that one of the cooles things in Civ 3 was birds eye view of your metropolis-es, even if they were just static portraits. I feel like you should be able to achieve something much more impressive than toy town with the processing power available today.
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May 28, 2016 12:13
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Huh, the more you know! Confusingly, Great Writers use 'current culture per turn' to determine how much culture to grant, while great musician tourism bombs do use the turns leading up to their spawn. I kind of wish there was consistency. Frankly the whole stockpiling scientists thing is boring and dumb.
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May 28, 2016 16:25
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When you see all the exploits in a list like that you kinda realise the game is broken as all hell. I've started playing with that "community balance patch" but I have no idea how far it goes to actually address all the issues.
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May 28, 2016 17:39
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Surprise Giraffe posted:I'm looking forward to this already. I think it looks pretty great too despite the change in art style, though I do wish they could have retained the clarity they're apparently going for using a realistic style. I think the terrain is going to end up looking a bit lifeless and boring after a while. I especially wish the cities looked realistic. I said in another thread that one of the cooles things in Civ 3 was birds eye view of your metropolis-es, even if they were just static portraits. I feel like you should be able to achieve something much more impressive than toy town with the processing power available today. Personally I feel the map is going to age better than Civ 5's, I like that now we get trees that sway in the wind, and the ocean and waves look pretty good too. Seems to be more zoom both in and out too. The Civ6 river is kinda bland looking but so is Civ 5's, I think Civ4 had best looking ones.
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May 28, 2016 17:41
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:When you see all the exploits in a list like that you kinda realise the game is broken as all hell. I've started playing with that "community balance patch" but I have no idea how far it goes to actually address all the issues. I got curious, is there anywhere I can see a list like that? Ive played a good bunch of Civ 5 and never knew any exploits, so the game doenst looks broken to me.
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May 28, 2016 18:02
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:When you see all the exploits in a list like that you kinda realise the game is broken as all hell. I've started playing with that "community balance patch" but I have no idea how far it goes to actually address all the issues. Diplomacy with city states is revamped such that you can't money bomb them into friendship. Instead there's a new class of units that are limited based on a special resource that's provided by a new set of buildings. Support units (workers, missionaries, etc) can be stacked without limit, but only one worker can work a tile at a time. More bonuses to lumber mills and mines and they can be built in jungles now too. Every civ also has a UB and a UU rather some having two UUs. There's a load of other changes, but these changes are related to things that came up in the thread
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May 28, 2016 18:14
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I hope Byzantium gets a boost to founding a religion. It's really annoying to 'need' a religion and keep missing it because the AI starts with Pottery/can take Piety without hurting itself/is Ethiopia, Maya or Celts. Especially the Celts getting free faith just for showing up grumble grumble
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May 28, 2016 18:45
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I know that it's barely an excuse for the game itself, but you can play a map with zero city states. We tried it once with a friend, and I have to admit I kinda enjoyed not having the pressure to bribe every single CS into worshiping me.
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May 28, 2016 19:11
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 I don't know why I didn't just do that, especially given that they eat up tons of land and resources and everyone goes nuts when you capture one.
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May 28, 2016 19:55
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:When you see all the exploits in a list like that you kinda realise the game is broken as all hell. I've started playing with that "community balance patch" but I have no idea how far it goes to actually address all the issues. They're not really exploits though, and they don't break the game.
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May 28, 2016 20:03
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Fister Roboto posted:They're not really exploits though, and they don't break the game. Well, it depends on what you mean by "break". If you were using these techniques on Prince, you'd utterly steamroll everyone. So that'd be a "broken" game. But on the flipside, these kinds of things are totally necessary on Deity just to catch up to the AI.
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May 28, 2016 20:18
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That has more to do with playing on Prince than anything "breaking" the game.
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May 28, 2016 20:27
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Byzantine posted:I hope Byzantium gets a boost to founding a religion. It's really annoying to 'need' a religion and keep missing it because the AI starts with Pottery/can take Piety without hurting itself/is Ethiopia, Maya or Celts. The CBP change to the Celts are interesting. In addition to getting special snowflake beliefs, they receive nor exert religious pressure and get a faith boost where their religion is dominant. Byzantium, otoh, ALWAYS gets to found a religion and can take the same belief taken by another religion in addition to their extra belief.
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May 28, 2016 20:29
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Byzantine posted:I hope Byzantium gets a boost to founding a religion. It's really annoying to 'need' a religion and keep missing it because the AI starts with Pottery/can take Piety without hurting itself/is Ethiopia, Maya or Celts. I'm pretty sure that's intentional, though. They would be incredibly broken if they were guaranteed a religion, as they are you actually have to put in effort to get the most out of them. I know that there aren't many civs that have to jump through hoops to get their gimmick to work, but at the same time it's also not like there aren't a fair few civs with at least one weak or useless UU or ability.
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May 28, 2016 21:17
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Better to not have any useless uniques, really. Byzantium being guaranteed a religion is good.
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May 28, 2016 21:26
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kvx687 posted:I'm pretty sure that's intentional, though. They would be incredibly broken if they were guaranteed a religion, as they are you actually have to put in effort to get the most out of them. I know that there aren't many civs that have to jump through hoops to get their gimmick to work, but at the same time it's also not like there aren't a fair few civs with at least one weak or useless UU or ability.
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May 28, 2016 21:45
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kvx687 posted:I'm pretty sure that's intentional, though. They would be incredibly broken if they were guaranteed a religion, as they are you actually have to put in effort to get the most out of them. I know that there aren't many civs that have to jump through hoops to get their gimmick to work, but at the same time it's also not like there aren't a fair few civs with at least one weak or useless UU or ability. Yeah, I don't want it guaranteed, but it's entirely possible that you can't put in enough effort to overcome starting eight turns behind everyone else on building shrines/Ethiopia getting a free temple with every monument/the Celts existing/etc. Think it's mostly the free Pottery for AIs that bugs me the most.
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May 28, 2016 21:55
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If it's that unenjoyable you can just use Really Advanced Setup to remove Boudicca and Haile from your games. I've been blocking Hiawatha and Kamehameha and Maria Theresa from my games for years now because gently caress that endless city spamming and buying city states poo poo.
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May 28, 2016 22:06
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Phobophilia posted:basically, in civ5, overprioritising production is a trap, population is king. pop = science, and your tradition capital is the single most efficient conversion of pop and happiness to science And this is why the Huns are the best civ in the game. They can get strong production from working the same tiles that give them the most food, allowing them to snowball forward with wonders, and science buildings while still maintaining a strong population growth. The map generator loves to cluster pasture resources too - you can find spots within range of 4 -6 very easily, and my record for most pastures within working range of a city is around 10.
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May 29, 2016 11:35
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Oh I forgot Pastures include cows and sheep NVM. Star Frog fucked around with this message at 12:31 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 12:04
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Looks like the Ottomans are in https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/736968372559040512
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May 29, 2016 19:01
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SirKibbles posted:Looks like the Ottomans are in 
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May 29, 2016 20:52
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One of the more surreal experiences I had in Athens was seeing/hearing the Golden Dawn have a rally on May 29th in commemoration.
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May 29, 2016 20:55
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Rexides posted:I know that it's barely an excuse for the game itself, but you can play a map with zero city states. We tried it once with a friend, and I have to admit I kinda enjoyed not having the pressure to bribe every single CS into worshiping me. I do this nowadays. Great merchants can't do trade missions with no city states and certain civs are gonna be useless. It also fucks up the diplomatic victory option. There's fewer avenues to resources as well. All that said, the game really focuses more on the civs than the city states, so it's an interesting change.
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May 30, 2016 04:06
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Glass of Milk posted:I do this nowadays. Great merchants can't do trade missions with no city states and certain civs are gonna be useless. It also fucks up the diplomatic victory option. There's fewer avenues to resources as well. Yeah, I feel like they were kinda an afterthought — but then they're also crucial to a win condition.  (Just a commentary on game design, I know diplo victory can be turned off and stuff.)
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May 30, 2016 04:23
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I think city-states are a brilliant idea in concept -- the game really needs small-time civs for the big players to push around and get into fights over. But their implementation in Civ5 wasn't the greatest.
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May 30, 2016 04:37
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I think the idea of city states is nonsense, you have small-time civs to fight around/push around: they are civs that got bottled up, have less land than others, but still follow similar rules as other civs. Heck, just give some rubber band mechanics to the AI so they keep pace with the civs running ahead of the pack, so they can have some disproportionate influence on the world without being instantly eaten up.
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May 30, 2016 04:42
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