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Travis343 posted:Noted lovely Writer Scott Lobdell writes a character well, noted Good Writer Tom King writes him poorly. Is it possible the character is just lovely? You be the judge. I think that DT's vision of the platonic Jason Todd is mostly "as written by Lobdell", and he judges every other writer's use of the character according to that standard. THREAD CHALLENGE: Post your favorite Space Cabbie panels. 
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May 29, 2016 21:42
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Crabtree posted:Okay he trained with special ultra violent Shaolin Monks, but what about the All Caste vs The Untitled conflict? Where did that go and what use was that to the Outlaw's plot? Yes it serves the sloppy purpose of giving a decent excuse to write over coming back from the dead, but what else did it give Jason or the rest of the DC? What did it establish outside of that hastily slapdash remade continuity? Lobdell originally plotted the Untitled as a sort of underlying threat for a big part of the series' run. With some adventures slowly building up them as antagonists until the final battle against them. This was teased a bit by Essence's appearance in Team 7 a couple of years ago. However, Lobdell was taken off the book so Tynion would have one book and he rushed the Untitled plot, wasting any potential the characters would have. The All-Caste on the other hand have been a constant on Jason's character since their introduction. quote:Also I thought they weren't mercs to anyone but government assassins now? Like they obviously work for some US black ops poo poo and that's all? No, that was Jason's plan at the start of the series but after Roy made Rent-A-Bat public, the government liason cut ties with them since they weren't a secret anymore.
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May 29, 2016 21:54
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nooo, space cabbie think about what you're saying here, nooooo this does not represent a workable plan of action, space cabbie
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May 29, 2016 22:02
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Jason Todd should of stayed as Wingman if Damian isn't going to get back with Dick as Batman.
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May 29, 2016 22:10
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Jason Todd is terrible and one good animated film, and it was very good, is not worth him being back.
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May 29, 2016 22:40
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Obviously DCUR was #1, but the Hanna-Barbera comic made it into the BC polled top 10 again  http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05/29/bleeding-cool-bestseller-list-29th-may-2016-watchmen-beats-nazis/
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May 29, 2016 23:10
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X-O posted:Jason Todd is terrible and one good animated film, and it was very good, is not worth him being back. That last line made the movie for me. "This is the greatest day of my life!"
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May 30, 2016 00:07
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X-O posted:Jason Todd is terrible and one good animated film, and it was very good, is not worth him being back. Agreed. But somebody at DC has a major boner for him so Tim gets brushed aside as a result. Tim Drake, an actual legitimately great character.
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May 30, 2016 00:13
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I think Tim Drake, pre-New 52, was a great character. I'm not so sure about new 52 Tim since I haven't read much of Teen Titans. I heard it was really bad.
John Yossarian fucked around with this message at 00:46 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 00:40
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:First things first, have you read the series or are just going with the pages I've posted here before? I've read it, the reasons behind the quip doesn't change the fact that it's still the absolute dumbest poo poo he could have possibly said or done if he's supposed to be a character you're supposed to at least sympathize with. And also gently caress you he didn't shoot her in the loving shoulder  Look at that blood pooling. That's not what it would look like if he grazed her shoulder. It wouldn't move UP her tits then down her torso if she was bleeding out of a scrape/through and through shoulder hit. That's a gut shot. Like everything about Jason "Mediocre" Todd the writers ran it back just a little bit to try and make him look slightly less like the murderer batman villain he's become. Which, once again, like I said, is super dissonant with the fact that he loving quipped as he put a bullet through her gut as she told the viewer "Jason Todd is so drat awesome". And before you try to argue against that by saying "well Duela's CRAZY you're not supposed to agree with her" everything on that page is meant to make Jason look like a super cool tough anti-hero man. Seriously, every explanation that's come from Jason Todd is him trying to excuse whatever awful poo poo he was doing previously but it all rings completely hollow when he's making jokes while doing the bad things and then goes on to do similar awful 90's extreme poo poo. Jason Todd loving sucks, every character he's been tied to in the nu52 comes out worse from interacting him and being guest stars in his weird time-warp WILDKATZ reboot. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 01:44
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Wow, yeah, I assumed "he shot her in the shoulder" was actually sensible based off the art but no, there is literally no way that could be a shoulder shot.
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May 30, 2016 01:48
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For fucks sake, he's running around angry and firing guns wildly at lovely D-List villains and henchmen tier fighters while plastering a big Batman logo on his chest because NO I AM PART OF THE BAT-FAMILY!. Seriously, he's just a Batman villain now. There's 0 real reason Bruce shouldn't nor hasn't put Jason in Arkham/Behind bars. And not even a good Batman villain. He's not cool or funny, his gimmick is dumb. Calendar Man is cooler than Jason Todd. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:01 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 01:53
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I've read it, the reasons behind the quip doesn't change the fact that it's still the absolute dumbest poo poo he could have possibly said or done if he's supposed to be a character you're supposed to at least sympathize with. And also gently caress you he didn't shoot her in the loving shoulder Hahahahahahahaha so she was supposedly shot in the shoulder, a place where she very clearly wasn't shot?
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May 30, 2016 01:57
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gently caress Jason Todd. He actively makes anyone in the batfamily worse when he's around. Put him in a pit in Arkham and never talk about him again
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May 30, 2016 01:59
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Norns posted:never talk about him again We can do this part.
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May 30, 2016 02:05
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Far be it for me to wade too deep into this particular cesspool of debate, but I'll give Jason this much credit: she did insist on making "if I go off the rails, and I will, shoot me" part of the bargain they had. Shooting her is still stupid but it didn't come out of nowhere.
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May 30, 2016 02:06
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And Jason shot a crazy person and gave her a bad-rear end 80s action movie zinger and then...promptly rushed her to the ER where she got the help she needed. Sure, ok.
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May 30, 2016 02:07
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Travis343 posted:And Jason shot a crazy person and gave her a bad-rear end 80s action movie zinger and then...promptly rushed her to the ER where she got the help she needed. This is the worst part of RHATO/RHA. If they just owned it and made Jason into the hardcore character the writers seem to want it'd be better. It's the waffling on how far he goes to try and reassure the reader he's still a good guy that really drags it down. They want him to be a dark hero that can get away with murdering bad guys but don't want him to have to deal with any of the consequences of being that bad of a person.
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May 30, 2016 02:15
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is the worst part of RHATO/RHA. If they just owned it and made Jason into the hardcore character the writers seem to want it'd be better. It's the waffling on how far he goes to try and reassure the reader he's still a good guy that really drags it down. The consequences like Bruce beating the absolute dog poo poo out of him and ripping that bat off of his chest.
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May 30, 2016 02:33
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 Eat my atom dust...in space. 
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May 30, 2016 02:37
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ImpAtom posted:Wow, yeah, I assumed "he shot her in the shoulder" was actually sensible based off the art but no, there is literally no way that could be a shoulder shot. ZenMasterBullshit posted:For fucks sake, he's running around angry and firing guns wildly at lovely D-List villains and henchmen tier fighters while plastering a big Batman logo on his chest because NO I AM PART OF THE BAT-FAMILY!. That is why I asked if you guys had read the series. This is how issue 12 follows up that scene   Despite Jason trying to act though, he hasn't killed someone in a long time. Through the whole run of RH/A the only guys he has killed are Palette in issue 1 and Underbelly in issue 3. Palette was killed because he was this close to killing Roy and Underbelly wasn't even human (and it didn't work anyways) A recurren theme in the series is Jason trying his hardest to redeem the foes they come across because in a way, he sees himself reflected in them. ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is the worst part of RHATO/RHA. If they just owned it and made Jason into the hardcore character the writers seem to want it'd be better. It's the waffling on how far he goes to try and reassure the reader he's still a good guy that really drags it down. Lobdell isn0t trying to write him as a hardcore character though. RHATO was all about Jason facing his anger issues and becoming a better person through the support of Kori and Roy. This came to a turning point in issue 36 when he stopped Kori from killing someone just out of revenge  RH/A simply follows that trend.
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May 30, 2016 03:28
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That is why I asked if you guys had read the series. This is how issue 12 follows up that scene So? It's pretty blatantly not a shoulder shot in the first art you posted and that's probably because it wasn't scripted as one. Nothing you posted changes that. Like literally the second piece of art you posted involved her being shot in an entirely different way. Either the artist is completely inept or the writer is. Edit: Let me rephase: The first piece of art you posted a while ago which was reposted above, where she is shot clearly not in the shoulder. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 03:35
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Red Hood's a lovely loser and Jason Todd was better off dead. Sucks, too, considering Red Hood might have the best costume design in the DC universe. It's really good.
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May 30, 2016 03:38
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Toxxupation posted:Red Hood's a lovely loser and Jason Todd was better off dead. 
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May 30, 2016 04:05
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May 30, 2016 04:23
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May 30, 2016 04:33
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They really cheaped out on the Space Cabbie movie. Mr. T is cool and all, but really, what's the point when you remove the sci-fi setting?
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 04:41 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 04:39
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I liked it for what it was, but I hate that it was made instead of a real Space Cabbie movie. Although I can't complain too much about seeing the deserts of New Mexico on the big screen—they were quite the majestic space for Mr. T to operate a cab in.
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May 30, 2016 04:44
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That is why I asked if you guys had read the series. This is how issue 12 follows up that scene You can't actually be this dense, right? I know they changed it next issue and made it a shoulder hit. I said I read the run, I read your post when you said it the first time. I said exactly that when it happened it looked like a murder and in the next issue they ran it back and said "Oh no, that was just a shoulder tap." even though the art and the writing make it look like much more. My entire point was how they constantly are running things back to try and make Jason look even a little bit redeemable.
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May 30, 2016 04:51
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can't actually be this dense, right? He once tried to equate the fictional death of Jason Todd with real world rape. So yes.
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May 30, 2016 04:56
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can't actually be this dense, right? I know they changed it next issue and made it a shoulder hit. I said I read the run, I read your post when you said it the first time. I said exactly that when it happened it looked like a murder and in the next issue they ran it back and said "Oh no, that was just a shoulder tap." even though the art and the writing make it look like much more. My entire point was how they constantly are running things back to try and make Jason look even a little bit redeemable. Since the solicits for this issue were released we knew Duela would be part of the series until it end so everything in issue 11 was just a fakeout since the start. And as I said, a constant on Lobdell's take on Jason is that he doesn't kill unless is to save his friends' life or his own. So no, Lobdell has never gone back to "try and make Jason redeemable"
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May 30, 2016 05:05
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Since the solicits for this issue were released we knew Duela would be part of the series until it end so everything in issue 11 was just a fakeout since the start. No it wasn't. You keep ignoring the blatant fact that the original artwork shows something completely different from the following issue, which is either the result of ineptitude or a script change.
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May 30, 2016 05:13
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Anyone can stop arguing about Jason Todd at any time. It's within your power.
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May 30, 2016 05:14
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I have a question, but it's mildly Todd-related, so please don't hate me. Why did Arsenal and Starfire end up in his comic? I've never known those characters to have any relationship with him before. Did someone get their Robins mixed up?
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May 30, 2016 05:19
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Teenage Fansub posted:Anyone can stop arguing about Jason Todd at any time. It's within your power. Let's talk about Joker's Daughter instead.
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May 30, 2016 05:26
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Since the solicits for this issue were released we knew Duela would be part of the series until it end so everything in issue 11 was just a fakeout since the start. And as I said, a constant on Lobdell's take on Jason is that he doesn't kill unless is to save his friends' life or his own. Showing a bullet enter someone's torso then next issue having it be "Oh no it just grazed her shoulder" isn't a fakeout, it's either an incompetent creative team or a script change. Either way, as someone reading the issue but not being so obsessed with one character as to find each and every little detail about upcoming issues before they're out, it reads a hell of a lot like most of the nu52 Jason stuff, constantly running things back. And I know you don't think Lobdell's guilty of it but he really is. Even the core concept of the new Red Hood is complete diametrically opposed to what he does with the character. You can spout all day about how he doesn't kill people but his main weapon is a pair of handguns that the artists and writers constantly have him firing at real mostly normal people. You don't do that unless you're trying to kill people. Of course the writers (Lobdell included) sort of realize this so there's a lot of "totally not kills" shots here and there, and while that kind of works for cartoony heroes like Vigilante since he's supposed to be the bastard child of Ben Cartwright and Lucas McCain it's completely unbelievable that Jason "The Joker Murdered me so I'm back from the dead and angry and gonna be an outlaw good guy with my Guns Akimbo" Todd isn't hitting anyone lethally.
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May 30, 2016 05:27
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Teenage Fansub posted:Anyone can stop arguing about Jason Todd at any time. It's within your power. Remember when this poo poo was confined to the red hood thread and it was mostly just one good commenting the whole time? Those were good times. In non lovely comic news, when is Prez coming back?
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May 30, 2016 05:33
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The Search for Ray Palmer was a great use of
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May 30, 2016 05:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Showing a bullet enter someone's torso then next issue having it be "Oh no it just grazed her shoulder" isn't a fakeout, it's either an incompetent creative team or a script change. Either way, as someone reading the issue but not being so obsessed with one character as to find each and every little detail about upcoming issues before they're out, it reads a hell of a lot like most of the nu52 Jason stuff, constantly running things back. Except the art doesn't shows the bullet entering Duela's torso (the way her blood is spreading in the next panel even points to the wound been on her right side) If anything, is a mixup in Soy's part given he also messed up the gun used in those pages (is different in each panel and comes out of hammerspace). quote:And I know you don't think Lobdell's guilty of it but he really is. Even the core concept of the new Red Hood is complete diametrically opposed to what he does with the character. You can spout all day about how he doesn't kill people but his main weapon is a pair of handguns that the artists and writers constantly have him firing at real mostly normal people. You don't do that unless you're trying to kill people. Except he barely uses the guns in combat. The times we've seen fight in RH/A he used the guns against pallete in issue 1, the mimes made of nanobots in issue 2, Underbelly in issue 3, Gordobats in issue 4, the Iron Rule in issue 9 and HIVE drones in issue 10. All the other times he fights is using martial arts. Something that extends to his appearances in B&R Eternal, Batman Eternal and Action Comics. Plus for a while in the N52 editorial was trying to make the All Blades his signature weapon, period in which Jason didn't used his guns at all. quote:Of course the writers (Lobdell included) sort of realize this so there's a lot of "totally not kills" shots here and there, and while that kind of works for cartoony heroes like Vigilante since he's supposed to be the bastard child of Ben Cartwright and Lucas McCain it's completely unbelievable that Jason "The Joker Murdered me so I'm back from the dead and angry and gonna be an outlaw good guy with my Guns Akimbo" Todd isn't hitting anyone lethally. Again, that is something adressed by his time with the All Caste. Under Ducra he learned about all the ramifications involved with the act of killing and thus, he uses sparingly. By RH/A Jason doesn't even wants to kill Joker anymore, he would rather find a way to cure him so he would spend the rest of his life tormented by the knowledge of all the atrocities he did while being insane.
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May 30, 2016 05:51
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On the other hand, shut up
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May 30, 2016 06:01
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