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Tesseraction posted:This is true, and especially not the government of Wislon and Callaghan. Frankly I'd prefer a modern idea of contemporary socialism, or perhaps a return to the thoughts of Bertrand Russell (I notice Corbyn gave a speech at the Bertrand Russell Foundation some time in the past year) but with the dates filed off so no-one notices. articulating that contemporary socialism is turning out to be difficult thespaceinvader posted:I'd prefer actual old Labour to Blair Labour, but I'd prefer actual socialism to either. well, actual socialism is always conveniently amorphous but Blairism was notably more comfortable with feminism (mandatory female representation, less openly masculinist sense of the job market - recall that late old Labour was still posturing about pitching the just minimum wage at two-thirds male median earnings. Good luck explaining how that fits any natural sense of justice, Kinnock certainly couldn't in 1992), more adaptable to non-labour pressure groups, more committed to universal rights than rights limited to collective bargains, and more adept at managing a media long since reckoned to be hostile to Labour
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May 31, 2016 15:23
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forkboy84 posted:So the bloke who runs Wetherspoons doesn't actually know what the IMF is then? That's funny. Nah he does but he's a long-time 'kipper so it's not like things like facts or reality will ever get in the way of what he likes to call 'common sense'.
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May 31, 2016 15:27
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ronya posted:more committed to universal rights than rights limited to collective bargains
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May 31, 2016 15:31
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Hey, BREXIT vote question - Is anyone in the thread voting by post? If so, have you received your ballot yet? I'm voting but overseas and didn't know if I should have my ballot already... any ideas? I've already confirmed I *should* receive a ballot with Hackney, but haven't received anything by mail yet.
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May 31, 2016 15:45
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Guavanaut posted:At least on paper, as long as you didn't decide to exercise any of them against the government, like protesting Parliament without prior permission. well this is not really a great example imo (but I don't think you're looking to be convinced) but, oddly enough, I think the broad attack is correct in that New Labour was cognizant of the importance of codifying claims (even if in a mutually dissatisfying, strategically ambiguous fashion) instead of letting them wave in the political wind which gives the UK both the human rights act and a successful good friday agreement
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May 31, 2016 15:59
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starksfergie posted:Hey, BREXIT vote question - Is anyone in the thread voting by post? If so, have you received your ballot yet? I'm voting but overseas and didn't know if I should have my ballot already... any ideas? Mine and a couple other posters' showed up last week, we're UK though so 
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May 31, 2016 16:25
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I'm registered to vote by post but haven't received my ballot yet and I live in Essex so who knows.
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May 31, 2016 16:30
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stuff like media management, it's not a matter of penning a bullet point (or chiseling an edstone of one's choice) saying WE WILL BE BETTER AT THIS 'MEDIA' THING it's like... ok, you have this internal paper of some sort*. Which audienec do you pitch it to first, when you are polishing it into a final statement to be committed as policy? Is it a press conference? Is it your fellow PLPs? Is it your party delegates and activists? You obviously cannot have more than one first, primary audience; that's integral in the words 'first' and 'primary'. So there are priorities. Old and New Labour had different priorities, these things matter. * which is presuming that you have some non-public internal process for cranking out these papers, i.e., not some politicized battle prone to damaging leaks made in hope of shaping the process. Sometimes it's possible to forget just how much of a shitshow this used to be
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May 31, 2016 16:31
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ronya posted:stuff like media management, it's not a matter of penning a bullet point (or chiseling an edstone of one's choice) saying WE WILL BE BETTER AT THIS 'MEDIA' THING You could always bar the media from discussing policy in tabloid terminology and choke the information out through a third party kinda like stalinism but because of page 3 girls as opposed to inherent tyrannical impulses
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May 31, 2016 16:35
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ronya posted:stuff like media management, it's not a matter of penning a bullet point (or chiseling an edstone of one's choice) saying WE WILL BE BETTER AT THIS 'MEDIA' THING This really touches on the problem I have with Corbyn's tenure so far. Despite the opportunity to push through to the grassroots all I've been getting are very milquetoast emails that remind me of the ones Judas Clegg kept making GBS threads at me until he suicided in the GE.
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May 31, 2016 16:35
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Tesseraction posted:This really touches on the problem I have with Corbyn's tenure so far. Despite the opportunity to push through to the grassroots all I've been getting are very milquetoast emails that remind me of the ones Judas Clegg kept making GBS threads at me until he suicided in the GE. yeah but relative to his party base size Clegg has to be considered one of the best politicians in recent British history, they lost the GE because the tories are cancer and not because he wasn't good at spin and media.
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May 31, 2016 16:38
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Thanks for the post vote responses. I'll just call Hackney again on Friday and confirm it was mailed or is due to be mailed (and yeah, I'm in the US, so it might take a bit longer than Essex, heh). Ta!
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May 31, 2016 16:38
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starksfergie posted:Hey, BREXIT vote question - Is anyone in the thread voting by post? If so, have you received your ballot yet? I'm voting but overseas and didn't know if I should have my ballot already... any ideas? Mine and my wife's showed up this morning. Already posted mine back.
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May 31, 2016 16:40
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Spangly A posted:yeah but relative to his party base size Clegg has to be considered one of the best politicians in recent British history, they lost the GE because the tories are cancer and not because he wasn't good at spin and media. he was awful at spin and media! Did you not see how utterly bellended he was after the media stopped kissing his arse every five minutes? hell the tories had to help him keep his seat this time around!
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May 31, 2016 16:42
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Tesseraction posted:he was awful at spin and media! Did you not see how utterly bellended he was after the media stopped kissing his arse every five minutes? Tesseraction posted:after the media stopped kissing his arse every five minutes? yesterdays top stories in the mirror were about a woman who owned sex toys but couldnt use them, and a gorilla was shot. The only way to possibly be good at this is to have them kiss your arse constantly. He did that so well he became a major coalition partner, after which his partners made him publically sacrifice his two most media-popular policies, neutering him forever. A comparative level of overachievement for Corbyn would be him repeating his labour leadership margins in the GE. I'm not saying milquetoast emails are the way, but Cleggmania was absolutely an example at masterful media control.
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May 31, 2016 16:50
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I won't disagree that he ran a great game to get into office. He just spent his entire time in office smearing poo poo all over the Lib Dem logo and getting clowned by Nigel loving Farage in an EU debate (which was a beautiful smackdown despite me actually supporting staying in the EU at the time).
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May 31, 2016 16:56
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Now is time to start to panic. New ICM telephone poll http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/uk-voters-leaning-towards-brexit-guardian-poll-reveals quote:Remain: 42% (-5) First telephone poll showing a Leave lead, and its by arguably the best company, and using the exact question in the referendum. Those 18 Albanians might have swung the vote to leave significantly. Sterling has been crashing since this poll came out down about 2% so far against USD.
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May 31, 2016 16:57
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Oh and I was just starting to come around to Remain.
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May 31, 2016 17:01
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Tesseraction posted:He just spent his entire time in office smearing poo poo all over the Lib Dem logo and getting clowned by Nigel loving Farage in an EU debate (which was a beautiful smackdown despite me actually supporting staying in the EU at the time). And then they just used their hair thin majority to push all their prohibition and surveillance poo poo through the second time around. e: Spangly A posted:yesterdays top stories in the mirror were about a woman who owned sex toys but couldnt use them, and a gorilla was shot. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 17:05 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 17:03
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Guavanaut posted:He did do some good work stopping the worst of the Tory policies, at the expense of Lib Dem electability. As Newszoids quite masterfully put it: "Oh my God I'm being robbed!" "Don't worry, that's why I'm here as a moderating influence!" "But he's taking my stuff!" "Yes, but not as much stuff than if I hadn't let him in."
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May 31, 2016 17:07
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I should clarify, the worst of their social policies. The worst of their economic policies the Orange Bookers agreed with, so there wasn't going to be much in the way of moderation there.
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May 31, 2016 17:12
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Guavanaut posted:He did do some good work stopping the worst of the Tory policies, at the expense of Lib Dem electability. I'm agreeing with tess in the sense that anyone who voted for lib dem probably didn't vote for austerity, many actively against it, and they got austerity. And obviously government is about compromise, and yet we probably don't teach enough civics well enough for anyone to expect to understand this. I mean if gramsci was right then the continued underfunding of education will start with people not understanding why nick clegg did what he did and end with revolution, so there's some small hope.
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May 31, 2016 17:12
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Spangly A posted:I mean if gramsci was right then the continued underfunding of education will start with people not understanding why nick clegg did what he did and end with revolution, so there's some small hope. Now this I'm down with.
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May 31, 2016 17:15
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Spangly A posted:I'm agreeing with tess in the sense that anyone who voted for lib dem probably didn't vote for austerity, many actively against it, and they got austerity. And obviously government is about compromise, and yet we probably don't teach enough civics well enough for anyone to expect to understand this. I'm relatively well educated and I don't understand what nick clegg was thinking.
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May 31, 2016 17:22
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Spangly A posted:I mean if gramsci was right then the continued underfunding of education will start with people not understanding why nick clegg did what he did and end with revolution, so there's some small hope.
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May 31, 2016 17:24
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Guavanaut posted:He did do some good work stopping the worst of the Tory policies, at the expense of Lib Dem electability. I keep hearing that but the only example people ever manage to come up with is the Communications Bill clusterfuck.
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May 31, 2016 17:28
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They stopped the boundary review before the last election, without that the Tories would have had a majority of near 50 and not the barely workable one that they have
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May 31, 2016 17:31
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ukle posted:Now is time to start to panic. Devastating. Surely Will Straw has to go?
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May 31, 2016 17:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I keep hearing that but the only example people ever manage to come up with is the Communications Bill clusterfuck. There'd likely be more mandatory minimums for minor crimes too, and some electoral changes that would give the Tories a greater advantage were blocked.
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May 31, 2016 17:34
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Guavanaut posted:A revolution based on tabloids or social media substituting for a lack of civics teaching may not end up looking like the revolution that you want though. Britains Got A Prime Minister it'll be wonderful op OwlFancier posted:I'm relatively well educated and I don't understand what nick clegg was thinking. nick clegg is the process of understanding, not the first question. He simply is; focus on this, and one begins to understand zen Spangly A fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 17:35
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The winner will be a performance involving a pig.
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May 31, 2016 17:37
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IceAgeComing posted:They stopped the boundary review before the last election, without that the Tories would have had a majority of near 50 and not the barely workable one that they have My vague memory is that the Lib Dems were going to agree to boundary review in exchange for House of Lords reform, but Tory backbenchers blocked HoL reform so the Lib Dems blocked boundary review in response. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/06/nick-clegg-blocks-boundary-changes
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May 31, 2016 17:40
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Spangly A posted:nick clegg is the process of understanding, not the first question. He simply is; focus on this, and one begins to understand zen I have considered nick clegg, and my understanding is this: poo poo's all hosed up, hang the sense of it and let's get wasted
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May 31, 2016 17:43
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What is the sound of one Nick Clegging? A: 
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May 31, 2016 17:51
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These new polls are making me feel bad.
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May 31, 2016 17:52
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Would you feel better if they were all kicked out?
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May 31, 2016 17:53
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I should probably register to vote in this one
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May 31, 2016 18:07
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Wasn't there a poll last week at 55 Remain - 42 Exit? That's a pretty huge swing even for a "reputable" pollster.
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May 31, 2016 18:10
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I do not think it would be a good idea to leave the EU guys 
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May 31, 2016 18:12
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OwlFancier posted:I'm relatively well educated and I don't understand what nick clegg was thinking. "I want to be in government"
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May 31, 2016 18:17
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