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I prefer to apply the same standards to lawful protests I like and those I don't. Attacking people never looks good.
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May 31, 2016 19:06
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Deified Data posted:I prefer to apply the same standards to lawful protests I like and those I don't. Attacking people never looks good. I agree that violence is not a good counterpoint to an argument. I'm still not going to feel bad about that guy getting hit.
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May 31, 2016 19:18
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Prism posted:I agree that violence is not a good counterpoint to an argument. True.
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May 31, 2016 19:19
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gently caress that guy, yes he deserved to get hit with a bat, and i hope he burns in hell
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May 31, 2016 19:19
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Dude is a jerk but from a free speech standpoint he didn't do anything wrong. Don't agree with what he's saying but really, it's still wrong to smash him in the head with a blunt object.
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May 31, 2016 19:24
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Dude is a jerk but from a free speech standpoint he didn't do anything wrong. Don't agree with what he's saying but really, it's still wrong to smash him in the head with a blunt object.
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May 31, 2016 19:30
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I don't get why they went for half measures here. If you think violence solves this problem--I disagree, but I can understand your point of view--why leave him still able to talk?
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May 31, 2016 19:38
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Dude is a jerk but from a free speech standpoint he didn't do anything wrong. Don't agree with what he's saying but really, it's still wrong to smash him in the head with a blunt object. Yeah man, but she didn't hit him in the head with a baseball bat to abridge his freedom of speech, she hit him in the head with a baseball bat because he was a jerk. He can still go back and excercise his freedom of speech, and hopefully she (or some other hero) will be there to hit him in the head with a baseball bat again.
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May 31, 2016 19:42
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Chantilly Say posted:I don't get why they went for half measures here. If you think violence solves this problem--I disagree, but I can understand your point of view--why leave him still able to talk? He's a walking insult placard, so it's probably more correct to leave him without the use of his limbs.
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May 31, 2016 19:55
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Violence in the political sphere is something I'm genuinely on the fence about. It took Sherman drowning the South in blood and ashes before they stopped fighting to preserve slavery. When you have guys going on shooting sprees because women get abortions/won't gently caress them or rioting because rapists are fired from football teams, is there anything else they'll respond to beyond absolute ruthlessness? How do you about-face these massive cultural forces in a way that quickly ends the overwhelming threat they place on innocents?
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May 31, 2016 20:22
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Violence in the political sphere is something I'm genuinely on the fence about. It took Sherman drowning the South in blood and ashes before they stopped fighting to preserve slavery. When you have guys going on shooting sprees because women get abortions/won't gently caress them or rioting because rapists are fired from football teams, is there anything else they'll respond to beyond absolute ruthlessness? How do you about-face these massive cultural forces in a way that quickly ends the overwhelming threat they place on innocents? Oh man you are going to get PTD'd so hard....
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May 31, 2016 20:28
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Doctor Butts posted:Oh man you are going to get PTD'd so hard.... Yeah, I worded it weird, but what I mean is how do you counter poo poo that's this pervasive and toxic peacefully? IDK, its just exhausting to think about sometimes.
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May 31, 2016 20:31
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Beating people up who have opinions you don't like should be discouraged more than having bad opinions.
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May 31, 2016 20:37
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Violence in the political sphere is something I'm genuinely on the fence about. It took Sherman drowning the South in blood and ashes before they stopped fighting to preserve slavery. When you have guys going on shooting sprees because women get abortions/won't gently caress them or rioting because rapists are fired from football teams, is there anything else they'll respond to beyond absolute ruthlessness? How do you about-face these massive cultural forces in a way that quickly ends the overwhelming threat they place on innocents? it's cathartic for sure but vanquishing your enemies and driving them lamented before you is generally frowned on in civil discourse really it seems obvious to me that the dude has some serious issues wrt women, likely caused by some kind of traumatic abuse/neglect in his childhood, and it's not cool to encourage physically assaulting the mentally ill just because they're being obnoxious. think about if the police beat him while he was resisting arrest. now assume also you didn't know about his placards i also don't see these kinds of hateful people as a 'massive cultural force'. i mean it seems that way here itt in the thread devoted entirely to talking about guys like this but really their numbers are declining
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May 31, 2016 20:42
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I'm starting to see a strange unifying power behind this Cleveland Gorilla story. On one hand, my wacky liberal friends hate everyone involved because Gorilla's are rare and wonderful and people and children are poo poo garbage. On the other hand my wacky conservative friends hate everyone involved because it's a flashy example of bad parenting and G-d forbid one of those happens without everyone knowing you want to do the GTAV torture scene on bad parents. And now they seem to be cross pollinating with the liberals dabbling in parent shaming and the conservatives tipping a hat to the idea that Gorilla conservation is worth it.
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May 31, 2016 20:44
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it's wrong and she should 100% be arrested and charged with the full menu of crimes or whatever but it's also very funny that a terrible human being got his rear end beat by someone he considers inferior to him. These two opinions don't have to counter each other
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May 31, 2016 20:46
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Popular Thug Drink posted:really it seems obvious to me that the dude has some serious issues wrt women, likely caused by some kind of traumatic abuse/neglect in his childhood, and it's not cool to encourage physically assaulting the mentally ill just because they're being obnoxious. think about if the police beat him while he was resisting arrest. now assume also you didn't know about his placards How do you know he's mentally ill? Maybe he's just an old-fashioned shithead.
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May 31, 2016 20:46
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:How do you know he's mentally ill? Maybe he's just an old-fashioned shithead. i'm just assuming there's something wrong with him as most people don't feel so strongly about feminists destroying men that they hang around outside of high schools telling women they deserved to be raped, they stick to video game discussion forums and such Tatum Girlparts posted:it's wrong and she should 100% be arrested and charged with the full menu of crimes or whatever but it's also very funny that a terrible human being got his rear end beat by someone he considers inferior to him. These two opinions don't have to counter each other yeah, im not censuring the attacker or defending the guy. i'm just calling for some equivalency on this forum, people in these threads often completely reverse their positions depending on who is hitting who with a baseball bat
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May 31, 2016 20:48
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I'm wondering if an argument could be made that this counts as "fighting words." I doubt it, since it's a public space and he wasn't directing it at any one person, but on the other hand, Jesus, those loving signs. 
Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 20:57
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Yeah, I worded it weird, but what I mean is how do you counter poo poo that's this pervasive and toxic peacefully? IDK, its just exhausting to think about sometimes. The correct answer is troll them incessantly to get them to beat YOU up, and hope you don't die in the process... while having someone else secretly video tape them being a loving fascist. edit: That or make a placard that says "This guy is a loving moron" and an arrow you can spin to always point at him, and then just stand out there next to him on your lunch break/days off.
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May 31, 2016 20:58
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Quote is not edit.
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May 31, 2016 21:01
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Nah, whacking that guy good a couple times with a baseball bat is the correct thing when he's saying 3.5 billion people need to be violently assaulted.
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May 31, 2016 21:05
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Deified Data posted:Beating people up who have opinions you don't like should be discouraged more than having bad opinions. Look how he was dressed, he was asking for it. And to be frank, he was encouraging violent behavior towards women. gently caress the guy.
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May 31, 2016 21:07
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah, im not censuring the attacker or defending the guy. i'm just calling for some equivalency on this forum, people in these threads often completely reverse their positions depending on who is hitting who with a baseball bat siri, what is context
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May 31, 2016 21:09
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What I don't understand is why he also felt it necessary to protest that message outside of a high school.
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May 31, 2016 21:16
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Dabir posted:siri, what is context yeah, thats what im saying. most people are willing to define what kinds of speech it's allowable to assault someone over, whether it's general misogyny or brning an american flag
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May 31, 2016 21:23
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SLUTS WHORES FEM-NAZIS is not a political opinion that needs to be protected. If he's ready to be an adult about it he can come back and try again.
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May 31, 2016 21:27
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I think people are more interested in his person being protected from bodily harm, not his feelings from being hurt. I don't think that's an unreasonable set of priorities in a civilized society.
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May 31, 2016 21:29
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That's the best video since the one of the KKK getting beat down in Anaheim. If you're using your free speech to publicly call for the assault of other people then you yourself are a fair target.
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May 31, 2016 21:39
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I do think hate speech specifically calling for the harm of others should be punishable by law (and thought it was? Maybe not)
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May 31, 2016 21:43
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People should not be assault d for what they say, no matter how horrible. That being said I totally sympathize with that woman and hope that someone looks the other way on this one. Because while I think we as a society so consistently send the message that no one should be attacked for their words that doesn't mean I think that everyone who throws a punch deserves to go to jail. And in fairness "you should be raped" seems like it should count for something like a "physical threat" being made. Obviously it's not "I'm going to rape you" but it still seems beyond the pale of free speech. But still not grounds to be attacked. And still don't want her life to be ruined for giving in to some understandable anger. Freedom is complicated.
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May 31, 2016 21:51
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Unless you're a black person speaking your mind to a cop who's having a bad day.
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May 31, 2016 21:57
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GOD LAUGHS @ YOUR RAPE is a loving ghastly "opinion", just as bad as "I'm going to rape you" if not worse. If this guy getting attacked means less chance of rape survivors having to walk past a sign like that in the future I'm all for it. Would be more civilized if he was just thrown in jail I suppose, but still a net gain for society.
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May 31, 2016 22:04
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STAC Goat posted:Freedom is complicated. Can we add a line to the social contract so that folks who advocate taking away freedom should have their freedom taken away? Too much of a catch 22?
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May 31, 2016 22:10
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:How do you know he's mentally ill? Maybe he's just an old-fashioned shithead. Yeah, we really need to stop calling every rear end in a top hat in the news "mentally ill". Unless there's a legitimate diagnosis from a real doctor all you're doing is perpetuating the perception that mentally ill people are dangerous or otherwise incapable of acting in anything other than a destructive manner. And that discourages legitimately mentally ill people from seeking treatment because they're afraid of being associated with mass shooters and this rear end in a top hat.
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May 31, 2016 22:16
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STAC Goat posted:People should not be assault d for what they say, no matter how horrible. If I walk up to Trump on the street and scream in his face that he should be killed over and over I doubt the Secret Service would appreciate the nuanced position I chose to avoid accepting any culpability and would, in fact, beat my happy rear end into a coma and nobody would feel sorry for me
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May 31, 2016 22:18
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Who What Now posted:Yeah, we really need to stop calling every rear end in a top hat in the news "mentally ill". Unless there's a legitimate diagnosis from a real doctor all you're doing is perpetuating the perception that mentally ill people are dangerous or otherwise incapable of acting in anything other than a destructive manner. And that discourages legitimately mentally ill people from seeking treatment because they're afraid of being associated with mass shooters and this rear end in a top hat. Lone wolf! Mentally Ill! AKA White Guy.
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May 31, 2016 22:19
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Epic High Five posted:If I walk up to Trump on the street and scream in his face that he should be killed over and over I doubt the Secret Service would appreciate the nuanced position I chose to avoid accepting any culpability and would, in fact, beat my happy rear end into a coma and nobody would feel sorry for me Plenty of people would feel sorry for you. Would you have created the situation yourself? Yes. Would a lot of people consider it "Darwinism" or something because of that? Sure. But if authorities beat the poo poo out of you for yelling then you'd have more than a few people saying "ok, stop." I mean, it's a totally different situation about authority figures abusing civilians but it's not like that isn't a well traveled subject these days. And again, just because maybe you "deserve" to be hit (as that preacher clearly did) doesn't mean that we as a society should be making that massively subjective loop hole in our agreed upon rules. There's no good ending for that. All it does is give like minded people something to commiserate about while they ignore that if people they don't agree with ever use that justification it will change things.
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May 31, 2016 22:29
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CommieGIR posted:Lone wolf! Mentally Ill! This really. Mental illness is used as an excuse for every white guy attack rather than work to understand why someone could just plain be an extremist for some pet cause. That and ignore real societal problems like our obsession with guns, the rising right wing populist movement, or racial bias in law enforcement. Some people are just good old fashioned assholes and tossing the mentally ill under the bus doesn't help anyone but those who profit from our broken system. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 22:32
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Good Citizen posted:Violence is not the appropriate answer for someone like that. Still, I'm not shedding any tears over here. Nope, bash the fash, it's the only language they understand.
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May 31, 2016 22:38
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