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fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Einwand posted:

I seem to recall hearing that Verderia/Moonlight Tavern are actually in the mirror arad rotation, they're just super rare for seemingly no reason at all.

Moonlight Tavern is. If Verderia is, I've literally never seen it in hundred of runs.

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Somefool
Feb 17, 2011

Einwand posted:

I seem to recall hearing that Verderia/Moonlight Tavern are actually in the mirror arad rotation, they're just super rare for seemingly no reason at all.

Tavern I know for sure used to show up but at one point they messed with the rotation rate and even I can't get it to appear now in either versions.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Somefool posted:

Tavern I know for sure used to show up but at one point they messed with the rotation rate and even I can't get it to appear now in either versions.

Across my hundreds of runs, I can probably count the number of times I've gotten Frozenheart or Moonlight Tavern on one hand. No idea why they did that.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Actually I sort of take back my previous post thanks to the TTavern reminder

Old Streets is still the best level music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJGRmL-lOEE

but the Tavern has the best boss theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT0Rq4SA7q8

Somefool
Feb 17, 2011

fool_of_sound posted:

Across my hundreds of runs, I can probably count the number of times I've gotten Frozenheart or Moonlight Tavern on one hand. No idea why they did that.

I don't remember what they did, but they tried to lower the rate on certain dungeons from appearing because they were either annoying or didn't benefit players. All I can say is, you get way too many of the same maps right now compared to Mirror Arad's initial release. The map rotation was much more unique before.

Nethertribes
Mar 19, 2011

BLOOD
Look if they just remove Hamelin it'd be great. Such a slog of a level, jesus.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
Upcoming Avenger and Female Brawler buffs. They're... less than impressive. I don't know much about FBrawler, but the Avenger buffs completely fail to solve the class' issues. Mostly, they just make Demonize less absolutely worthless. The complete non-Demonize changes are:

---Thunder Mine and Spin Cutter cost slightly less SP.
---Dark Authority damage (but not the grab afaict) has a larger AoE.
---Metamorphosis lasts a decent bit longer; it eats Demon Gauge less quickly and max Demon Gauge is appreciably higher.
---Painful Rapture gives more Demon Gauge and consumes less HP.
---Echoes of Nothing no longer has an HP penalty.
---Evil Strike changed to just a generic damage increase.
---Dark Howling made generally better in human form, and no longer costs Demon Gauge.
---Smite of Destruction nerfed against bosses/minibosses but otherwise buffed.
---Unholy Fury generally buffed and no longer consumes Demon Gauge.
---A relevant Demonize change: you can cancel out of Demonize now, which might make it useful as a once-per-dungeon demon gauge recharge, especially since you can cast it so quickly in Metamorphosis.

Basically, Avengers will have better damage, which wasn't this issue: it's that they can't hold their enemies in place well enough to inflict that damage, especially endgame bosses.

e: Don't get me wrong, the Demonize buffs are substantial, but you still can't use Devil Strike in Demonize so it's only useful against enemies with a lot of annoying crown control.

fool of sound fucked around with this message at 19:04 on May 25, 2016

MURPHAGATOR!
Apr 6, 2013

Another busy day at the
Fight House.
Ill go into more detail when I get home, but I consider the f.brawler changes a net nerf.

Short version is they nerfed venom mine and apply poison, the combo of which was most of what the class even does right now.

Black Balloon
Dec 28, 2008

The literal grumpiest



Murph, do you think the other changes mean something could potentially replace venom mines in effectiveness, or do the explosive hook changes not quite compensate for that as they are?

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Black Balloon posted:

Murph, do you think the other changes mean something could potentially replace venom mines in effectiveness, or do the explosive hook changes not quite compensate for that as they are?

Hell no. These fbrawler changes are pretty terrible overall and don't address fbrawler's problems as a class. Same w/ avenger's.

Somefool
Feb 17, 2011

Reminder that Magic Cata changes will be up next and then all the popular support classes in raid. This summer is about to get messy with balance changes. :allears:

MURPHAGATOR!
Apr 6, 2013

Another busy day at the
Fight House.

Black Balloon posted:

Murph, do you think the other changes mean something could potentially replace venom mines in effectiveness, or do the explosive hook changes not quite compensate for that as they are?

So first off, I want to say that I don't think these changes really alter how f.brawler works right now at all. I still think they are just handstrung into intense bomb for late game, and I still think a huge portion of their damage will come from venom mine. I don't think I can explain how core venom mine is to f.brawlers damage right now clearly enough. It's difficult to get solid numbers because the in-game damage tracking is really really bad at showing status effect damage, especially the parts from apply poison, but there's a reason when playing f.brawler that I throw it out basically at every opportunity where I need damage. The primary reason for this is that it's one of the few really reliable ways f.brawler has access to % damage, and the second being that f.brawler's main gameplan is to just apply stacks of poison like crazy, and intense bomb makes venom mine do a LOT of poison procs with apply poison. A single venom mine cast is basically always 30+ poison procs for me right now. And even negating all that, the real problem is that f.brawler just has a lack of damaging skills. She has a whole bunch of things that are so-so, but other than venom mine, nothing really just stands out damage wise. Mount is good damage until you hit anything it grab cannons. I don't understand why it doesn't just grab cannon the whole thing since thats what m.brawler's mount does if you give it 3 punches back using one of the ov sets. Ground kick sucks, junk spin's damage all comes from apply poison, poison hooks damage will still probably be so-so at best, block bomb is literally a stun proc skill and throw away otherwise, explosive poison is garbage for damage and really hard to use since it has a lovely hitbox, poison mine is ok but 45s CD.

I will say I think the amount venom mine has been nerfed is being overstated a bit. Losing 2 mines sucks, but its hard to hit a lot of enemies with all of them anwyays, and the 20% nerf to damage is a bit of a wash when snake strike is up since you can get the cancelation bonus for it now (I actually think this might be the rational for the damage nerf). Of course, snake strike isn't a 100% uptime skill, but you know.

I do think that the changes at least give incentive to do other things, but ultimately they will still just remain filler between intense bomb CDs. They'll be more effective filler I suppose, but still.

To really fix f.brawler right now without giving her a full-on rework would be pretty tough. Making net way bigger would go a long way to offset how many of her skills have tiny hit areas, fix mount, remove ground kick altogether and replace with some big move, make snake stance nearly full uptime and increase the attack speed a bit (this might be what the less hitstun means, actually), replace venom mine with a skill that ACTUALLY loving FUNCTIONS without having to go all in on a 9pc so that f.brawler can have some equipment slots open, and maybe give her some skill that could detonate her poison stacks to get instant damage out of them. If she has to have limited hit areas like she does, they could at least embrace that as a plan, but really they should probably just start over.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Einwand posted:

I seem to recall hearing that Verderia/Moonlight Tavern are actually in the mirror arad rotation, they're just super rare for seemingly no reason at all.

They are. I've had the Michelle fight maybe once or twice ever in hundreds of mirror arad runs, Frozenheart I've seen exactly once. Meanwhile stuff like Hamelin show up constantly.

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.

Do you have too much free time? Do you want to read thousands of words about a class with electric cat hands? Then do I have something for you!
Apologies in advance to the one person who reads this.

magicalmako
Feb 13, 2005
Welp I just started again and I have no idea what I'm doing.

Zelmel
Sep 17, 2004

O brain new world, that has such ganglia in't!

magicalmako posted:

Welp I just started again and I have no idea what I'm doing.

Ignore most of the UI stuff, press buttons to make enemies explode.

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011

I forgot how much I dislike the Black Dragon Tournament.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

a cartoon duck posted:

I forgot how much I dislike the Black Dragon Tournament.

Yeah, I recently did it again for the first time since AiO, and they somehow made it more obnoxious.

Nighthand
Nov 4, 2009

what horror the gas

Einwand posted:

Do you have too much free time? Do you want to read thousands of words about a class with electric cat hands? Then do I have something for you!
Apologies in advance to the one person who reads this.

I liked spiral nen press while leveling because in a lot of rooms with enemies spread out in annoying places, it seeks and kills them pretty well. Streamlined a lot of time consuming running around. Then again, I stalled out leveling my mnen around 55 and haven't played him since well before 2wakes.

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.

Nighthand posted:

I liked spiral nen press while leveling because in a lot of rooms with enemies spread out in annoying places, it seeks and kills them pretty well. Streamlined a lot of time consuming running around. Then again, I stalled out leveling my mnen around 55 and haven't played him since well before 2wakes.

They changed how nen press works with the 2nd awakening patch, now it throws your spirals and they rotate around enemies for 3 or 4 rotations instead of the instant damage it used to do. It's also maxed out at level 1 instead of the normal skill it was before. It's a 175% damage multiplier on spiral damage except it doesn't stack with nen stone's damage multiplier, so it's not particularly great at high levels. I'd imagine it's decent during the leveling phase when nen stone won't have 100% uptime.

Black Balloon
Dec 28, 2008

The literal grumpiest



Slaying pvp badlords on the official stream.


I'll see if I can rip the OST and give it to y'all once they send it my way.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
Hey, since I know a lot of people are picking up Gracia weapons from this event: I have a leftover 100% +10 Alicia's Tear magic stone I'm wiling to give away if you send me two Golden Candle pouches to reseal it. That's about half the cheapest price on the Auction House.

Umbreon
May 21, 2011

Einwand posted:

Do you have too much free time? Do you want to read thousands of words about a class with electric cat hands? Then do I have something for you!
Apologies in advance to the one person who reads this.


This is an awesome guide and I really appreciate it!

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
Dark Templar has been a real blast to play and I'm really looking forward to second awakening. Is it just me or was there some serious wonkiness going on with Ozma for Templar, though? It felt like it was a nightmare to break his dumb shield, like a lot of my attack hits wouldn't register for breaking it.

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


DT has a loving miserable time with breaking Ozma's shield due to the fact that they're a bit low on the multi-hits needed to do so. Whenever I run OV, I legitimately just quit Dark Side right after kicking Michael's rear end.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

NachtSieger posted:

DT has a loving miserable time with breaking Ozma's shield due to the fact that they're a bit low on the multi-hits needed to do so. Whenever I run OV, I legitimately just quit Dark Side right after kicking Michael's rear end.

I dunno, DT has plenty of multi-hits, but for some reason the game doesn't want to acknowledge most of them.

InfinityComplex
Feb 5, 2011

Nothing better than swinging around a little girl like a flail.
There is literally no feedback on whether or not you're actually hitting the shield outside of him screaming "GAH MY SHIELD YOU FUCKER". So whether or not your attacks are registering is definitely up to latency.

If you have the frags, go the route of dropping Ozma since he and everyone else in Dark Side are giant fuckers.

InfinityComplex fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 28, 2016

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
Bring an asura, watch them nearly insta-break his shield with their 1wake x button spam and maybe a ghost orb then lock him down with GQ as you 100-0 Ozma? :shrug:

At least Ozma's not a buggy fucker who can and will outright ignore holds and start running around (sometimes while GQ is still active on them) like whats-her-bullshit before mike.

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Evil Fluffy posted:

Bring an asura, watch them nearly insta-break his shield with their 1wake x button spam and maybe a ghost orb then lock him down with GQ as you 100-0 Ozma? :shrug:

Actually the best way to Ozma is Shadow Dancer. Shadow Cut and burst down. :getin:

Raruna
Mar 30, 2010

NachtSieger posted:

Actually the best way to Ozma is Shadow Dancer. Shadow Cut and burst down. :getin:

The absolute most satisfying poo poo I've ever seen in DFO has been exactly this. God, Shadow Dancers are so loving cool.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
This new wave of events does not seem terribly onerous and they have nice rewards. What a welcome relief from the hell that is marvelous weapon enhancement.

Also, what was supposed to be controversial? The legendary pot? Doesn't seem like that big of a deal... it just means there will be handful more legendaries on the AH.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Obligatum VII posted:

Also, what was supposed to be controversial?

They say this every time a new item pops up in LTs

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.

Looks like I'm following Imp in yet another way, first I get a +12 85 epic and then I get banned out of nowhere and get to hope they feel like unbanning me.

Raruna
Mar 30, 2010
I should probably get that Light Antony pet. I never ended up getting the Behemoth one. Do pet stat bonuses work even if the pet has 0 loyalty?

Black Balloon
Dec 28, 2008

The literal grumpiest



Einwand posted:

Looks like I'm following Imp in yet another way, first I get a +12 85 epic and then I get banned out of nowhere and get to hope they feel like unbanning me.


That's fuckin lovely. Looks like a lot of people are getting auto-banned because of something to do with the event dungeons/area. I suggest everyone steer clear of that area until neople figures their poo poo out.

Nethertribes
Mar 19, 2011

BLOOD

Raruna posted:

I should probably get that Light Antony pet. I never ended up getting the Behemoth one. Do pet stat bonuses work even if the pet has 0 loyalty?

The only thing you lose out on if a pet is at 0 loyalty is the active skill that it has.

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Speaking of pets, I have two Belz eggs (passive +3% casting speed, goes up to 5 when it evolves to its final form) and a Botis (passive +4% move speed) that I am never ever going to use. Who wants one? I would prefer you not ask just so you can pawn it off on the AH, tia.

Black Balloon
Dec 28, 2008

The literal grumpiest



So I ran the warship event dungeons (before learning about the ban issue) on my SM, and on my 83 kuno. I did not get any ban for it (yet). The speculation I'm reading is that the ridiculous amount of exp it yields is triggering an auto-ban, because the game assumes there's no way someone can legitimately get so much exp at once. This seems to specifically be occurring with players that run the event on lower level characters, because a couple runs can spike you multiple levels easily.

In any case, I encourage people to avoid the warship event area altogether until we can get a statement from Neople about it. Nothing has been put out yet on any of the official channels, but we'll be keeping an eye out.

Edit: I am now reading accounts of people being banned while running it at level cap as well.

Black Balloon fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 31, 2016

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
Yeah at level 86 my SM was making 8 million exp on it, those dungeons are ridiculously good for exp. They are also buggy as poo poo. Not to mention annoying to run.

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fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
Neople has officially acknowledged the Battleship of Bans, and says they're working on it.

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