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Deified Data posted:As the Greenskins, what do you do against a Dwarf army with tons of Quarrelers and a Grudge Thrower? I have a full stack, 5 units of Night Goblin Archers, I've had time to upgrade half my infantry to Big 'Uns. My initial plan was to start by killing their lord and breaking their morale, but my units obey and attack who I tell them to about 50% of the time (and refuse to touch the lord, period). Some are bogged down in enemy infantry but I've never seen an enemy have trouble extracting themselves from a cluster when they want to leave. What am I missing? Orc Boar Boys is your answer, if you've ever played as a dwarf then you know the terror of those fuckers appearing on the sides plowing into your artillery constantly, and they are strong as gently caress in melee too so they don't even bother pulling out like wolves do.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:25
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Deified Data posted:As the Greenskins, what do you do against a Dwarf army with tons of Quarrelers and a Grudge Thrower? I have a full stack, 5 units of Night Goblin Archers, I've had time to upgrade half my infantry to Big 'Uns. My initial plan was to start by killing their lord and breaking their morale, but my units obey and attack who I tell them to about 50% of the time (and refuse to touch the lord, period). Some are bogged down in enemy infantry but I've never seen an enemy have trouble extracting themselves from a cluster when they want to leave. What am I missing? Well, I've recently started a game as Greenskins on hard and while Dwarfs are tough opponents the answer to me always seems to be more orcs. Don't accept equal numbers, don't allow equal numbers, bring more boyz. And don't worry too much about normal income, always have a sack target on hand and an army on ita way to sack it. In battle keep units within the general's leadership aura to keep them fighting longer. Don't rely much on archers against dwarfs as they are too often armored and shielded for them to do much other than get chewed up by quarrelers. Bring more boyz. If you don't succeed in defeating a Dwarf army on the first go, keep a second army on hand to come in and finish them off (this is Grimgor as I play it). You can also get a Waagh pretty quickly if you keep up the momentum of sacking settlements, raiding and defeating weaker opponents (the dwarfs and greenskins to your south). Use the underway to reach and sack juicy undefended settlements. And always bring more boyz.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:25
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As the Orcs I had good success even with azshag's awful start by filling up the armys with tons of arrer boyz and goblins, enough orcs to hold the line and plenty of cheap goblins to fill out a second stack to 17 for the WAARGH. about 6 to 10 archers and overwhelming numbers tended to take care of most things I came across, Big'uns take awhile to both get the building and produce at 2 turns each.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:27
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Deified Data posted:Is it normal that you can't manually match the results of an auto-resolve? Like I can't even win a fight manually but the auto-resolve gives me a decisive victory every time. I can't use it because it feels like cheating. It has its ups and downs. If you've got overwhelming force(2+ stacks sieging a walled town with no army, for example), it will generally get you much better results in terms of casualties taken than actually fighting it out on your own in almost all cases. The flip side of this is that sometimes the balance of power will show a battle as being impossible for you, but if you play it out it's extremely winnable. Auto-resolve also tends to be horribly punishing to numerically small units and monsters. If you autoresolve a lot without paying attention it's really easy to lose Mannfred's starting Varghulf despite the Varghulf being effectively invulnerable to the crap troops you're fighting in the early game.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:32
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Also, does anyone else feel that some of the Legendary Lord's Items are really lackluster? Some of them are just plain worse than good rares, and that just don't feel right considering the effort you have to put in getting them. Like Gelt's Cloak of Molten Metal, the best thing it does is give a 25% resistance to ranged (the other two is a whooping +5 melee defense and -10% enemy agent success), not useless but there are enchanted items that give 20% Ward saves in that slot or in other words put a 20% damage reduction against EVERYTHING and you can only get this after spending atleast 5k gold for the first teleport, 10k if you teleport for both battles required, and the first quest pits you against an overwhelming force of greenskins that has an archnarock! the second is against a vampire army that have a goddamned zombie dragon appear mid fight. Compare this to say, Mannfred who's sword is much easier to get and actually gives a proper unique effect, extra power reserves while hes fighting, which just owns. Or Kemmler, whos weapon is hard to get but gives an absurd passive buff, basically making it so he has invocation of nehek on himself at ALL times, yes that means he heals with his spells, passive aura AND the weapon and the weapon not only heals but RESSES things nearby (limited to 3 targets but thats still very VERY good).
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Jun 2, 2016 07:43
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Korgan posted:So it looks like I'm not receiving half my mission reward items for whatever reason. Got two missions, one to kill a dwarf agent and one to use an agent against the dwarfs, completed both of them by assassinating the dwarf agent. Only got one magic item despite claiming I got two. I'm just bugged I guess. Oh my god why is there no indication that some items are level locked, this is hosed  On the plus side, glad to know I'm not bugged.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:43
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Tenzarin posted:A single lord of lands long defeated is seiging one of my towns. His stack is just him, the lord. How can one person seige a big town? Kill him. Always kill lords that lose all their land. The reason being that you can steal all of the items they've earned over the campaign. This is one of the ways to get ridiculous numbers of blues and purps to turn your army into a murder machine. Since it seems like the game randomly doles out a number of items early on and everything after that just comes from quest rewards and such. quote:Like Gelt's Cloak of Molten Metal, the best thing it does is give a 25% resistance to ranged (the other two is a whooping +5 melee defense and -10% enemy agent success), not useless but there are enchanted items that give 20% Ward saves in that slot or in other words put a 20% damage reduction against EVERYTHING and you can only get this after spending atleast 5k gold for the first teleport, 10k if you teleport for both battles required, and the first quest pits you against an overwhelming force of greenskins that has an archnarock! the second is against a vampire army that have a goddamned zombie dragon appear mid fight. Gelt should never be in melee combat if you can avoid it. He's at his best when spamming rain of fire on clustered enemies. So a 25% resistance to ranged is pretty good. That's a ward item that can go to a melee bruiser. Archonex fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 07:52
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Archonex posted:Gelt should never be in melee combat if you can avoid it. He's at his best when spamming rain of fire on clustered enemies. So a 25% resistance to ranged is pretty good. That's a ward item that can go to a melee bruiser. Yeah thats how ive been using him, ive also changed unit sizes to large, it makes his spells a bit better though some still feel a bit weak.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:02
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Those giant spider whatever ain't poo poo. You get cannons and griffins and wizards and a couple hundred guns.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:05
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Arglebargle III posted:Those giant spider whatever ain't poo poo. You get cannons and griffins and wizards and a couple hundred guns. I picked Gelt as my LL, thats the first quest battle he gets, and you can get it relatively early so i didn't have access to the top end stuff when i did my quest battles. Mostly spearmen with shields, handgunners, 1x greatswords, 2x mortars and a cannon. I also had a bright wizard. The cannon seemed not to do much against the spider, the gunners did way better against it. I lost my first few attempts but being the savescumming bastard i am i succeeded when i literally put all my men in a tiny rear end super defensive formation using the raised cliff behind me as a natural barrier, so the orcs had to pile up losing their effectiveness in outnumbering me (and quite severely too, i had a full 20 stack but the orcs gain 1.5 stacks or something in that battle), and the spider appears almost right away as well. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 08:12
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why does mannfred give pre battle speeches to his troops, they're dead dog they can't hear you
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Jun 2, 2016 08:32
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Ayn Randi posted:why does mannfred give pre battle speeches to his troops, they're dead dog they can't hear you Mannfred is a nerd who's too into larping.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:37
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Just killed the Everchosen, I'm guessing this game is basically over now. Empire was pretty easy to gain 5-6 allies. At one point we had 6 stacks chasing chaos. Also gently caress a confederacy, stupid computer owned my income with their dumb poo poo.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:42
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Ayn Randi posted:why does mannfred give pre battle speeches to his troops, they're dead dog they can't hear you I like Kemmler's speech where he refers to all those skeleton's and poo poo as "my pretties"
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Jun 2, 2016 08:55
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Confirm or deny that heroes only cost upkeep when deployed? How about local income boost skills?
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Jun 2, 2016 09:22
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genericnick posted:Confirm or deny that heroes only cost upkeep when deployed? How about local income boost skills? I'm pretty sure heroes cost upkeep when hired and not just when deployed. Not sure what happens if they get wounded though. I think local income skills are active all the time not just when deployed, at least that's how the building discount and building income worked.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:26
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they definitely need to be deployed to incur upkeep compare your income before and after sticking one in an army
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Jun 2, 2016 09:39
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Assigning heroes to train units in an army is really weak this time around, but fortunately the +x ranks on recruitment is pretty legit, especially with the Empire. On a Lord with the final blue skill and the State Troop experience tech, you can round up gold-chevron State Troopers super easily.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:41
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I was recruiting rank nine murder kitties in Middenheim.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:42
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Does anyone know the mechanics between how unit hp and units remaining actually work? I was trying to do some testing with spells as the empire because Gelt felt really weak compared to the bright wizard i was using with Karl before. (On large unit settings:) I noticed that a single fireball would do a few hundred points of damage but also tended to kill say 6+ enemy crossbow/sword/spears every time. So my bright wizard could rack up a lot of kills even from starting levels. In comparison, i tried using Gelt to just searing rain my own troops until I ran out of magic and noticed that while it was doing 600ish damage every cast, it wasnt actually killing anything. In fact, i could get my unit hp down to like 2k out of a max of 4-5 depending on the unit before it said that i had actually even lost any units. Functionally, im not sure how this would affect actual combat as even though its doing damage, if its not "killing" anything, im not sure how effective it really is. Bright wizards seem to kick rear end, while Gelt felt absolutely useless.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:49
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:As the Orcs I had good success even with azshag's awful start by filling up the armys with tons of arrer boyz and goblins, enough orcs to hold the line and plenty of cheap goblins to fill out a second stack to 17 for the WAARGH. As a Dwarf player, Orc archers seem like a trap. They will always get outshot by quarrellers as they are less accurate, less armoured and don't have shields to block missiles. Bring more Orcs and throw them all into close combat so the quarrellers don't have easy targets to shoot at, and things are more even. Cavalry charges will knock dwarfen lines apart due to the ridiculous collisions. Archers are for killing targets you can't physically catch, but dwarfs can't run so why bother?
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Jun 2, 2016 10:19
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The AI can pop lords from nowhere, right? Doesn't need a city. This enemy army keeps attacking me garrison. Every turn I kill the lord, next turn the survivors have a new lord.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:22
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Korgan posted:Oh my god why is there no indication that some items are level locked, this is hosed British developers don't understand the need for clear in-game documentation. Most of them think that being secretive about basic mechanics is part of the challenge.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:22
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Is there a mod yet that opens up all/most recruitment options from the start (i.e. not linked to buildings) so the early, interesting part of campaigns aren't full of bland stacks basic units? I've always hated the teching up process of Total War. Units are supposed to be balanced with numbers and costs and training time anyway.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:28
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toasterwarrior posted:Assigning heroes to train units in an army is really weak this time around, but fortunately the +x ranks on recruitment is pretty legit, especially with the Empire. On a Lord with the final blue skill and the State Troop experience tech, you can round up gold-chevron State Troopers super easily. Anyone with a hero who has the +rank skills can do this trick. As Dwarves once I got the three thanes leveled up, I had rank 9 everything. With the leveled engineer, techs, and taking the army skills for the lords, my thunderers and cannons were simply ridiculous. My artillery was sniping Hellcannons they couldn't see and my thunderers fired as though they had repeaters with pinpoint accuracy.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:28
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Gonkish posted:As evidence of one of the most annoying problems the game has: I want to start a chaos campaign but I refuse to do so until I see a mod that gives their armies ambush stance, because this sort of thing sounds awful.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:36
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Archonex posted:Gelt should never be in melee combat if you can avoid it. He's at his best when spamming rain of fire on clustered enemies. So a 25% resistance to ranged is pretty good. That's a ward item that can go to a melee bruiser. Rain of Molten Metal or whatever it's called is like the shittiest attack spell in the game. Even on Large unit size while overcasted it will barely tickle a unit of orc boyz or empire swordsmen while hitting directly with all missiles.
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Jun 2, 2016 10:41
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asmallrabbit posted:Does anyone know the mechanics between how unit hp and units remaining actually work? Sure, this is how I see it. I could be wrong, but this seems to be the way it's done. Some people seem to think that when the entire unit's HP gets reduced by an amount, then a commensurate amount of soldiers should die. A 20% hit to a unit's HP should kill 20% of their units. It doesn't work that way. Each individual soldier has their own health pool, and they all individually add up to the Unit HP. Unit HP = SUM(soldier1, soldier2, etc.) The unit HP you see (the bar) is out of the maximum for that unit, if all individual soldiers were alive and fully healed. So, the health bar you see is the aggregate health of all of the individual soldiers. Let's say it shows 5000/5000 in a unit of 100 living swordsmen. That means that each swordsman has 50/50 health (50 * 100 = 5000). Another unit has 2500/5000 health and has 100 living swordsmen. This means that each swordsman has, on average, 25/50 health, and none of them are dead. Another unit has 1000/5000 health and only 20 living swordsmen. The 20 living swordsmen have 50/50 health each, and the dead swordsmen each have 0/50. If I cast a spell that hits the entire unit equally for 2000 and brings the total unit HP down to 3000, that means it's hit each individual troop for 20 health damage. However, no individual soldiers were killed: they were all wounded. Now let's say I cast a fireball that goes right through a part of the unit dealing 2000 total damage, killing some of the troops, and leaving 75 soldiers standing bringing the unit HP down to 3000. The soldiers that died had their individual health pools emptied, and the soldiers that were hit but survived were just wounded. The unit HP simply shows the sum in the numerator and the max in the denominator. Searing death or whatever it's called is an aoe spell that does something like 600 damage. When cast on a full unit of 120 troops that have an aggregate unit HP of 6000 (or more) meaning they each have 50/50 HP, let's say you get lucky and hit half the troops for total damage of 600. So, 60 soldiers each get hit for 10 damage, for a little less than 10% of the total unit hp. That means it'll need to hit the exact same soldier 5 times to kill even one soldier. This is why Gelt loving sucks. Compare it to the effect it has on small unit size in which all of the 60 soldiers with 50 health are nearly all hit by the same cast, dealing 10 damage to each unit. You just cut the total health of the unit by 20% in one cast. So, the effect is greater. Furthermore, Lords and Heroes have more health on higher unit sizes, so single-target spells hurt a lot more in small unit size games than bigger unit size games. jokes fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 10:47
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Also, does anyone know if spells have per-cast, or per-unit affected caps on damage dealt?
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Jun 2, 2016 10:52
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aw yeah, all-bats vampire army is going great! ...except that I need to play out every battle ever because the game doesn't get how good flying is,
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Jun 2, 2016 10:54
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KillerQueen posted:aw yeah, all-bats vampire army is going great! Not to worry, the Sylvanian Air Force is very user-friendly.
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Jun 2, 2016 11:16
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The Lone Badger posted:The AI can pop lords from nowhere, right? Doesn't need a city. Every army can pull a new lord out of their rear end if the lord dies. Assuming the side has enough cash, which is like <1k. They are, in fact, required to, or the army disbands,
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Jun 2, 2016 11:20
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I am in possession of a fresh new army of Terrorgheists and Vargheists. Can someone give me a quick run-down on how to get the best out of them?
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Jun 2, 2016 11:30
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My Chaos Lord lost in melee to a a couple of units of swordsmen and a normal Kislev lord. The gently caress dude? Full on combat specced, chumped and fleeing from normal-rear end dudes. I'm pretty sure he wasn't engaged with the halberds and he was supported by his normal marauder units. He even had a damage resistance active and a debuff for a while. I mean he rallied and chewed through a unit of swordsman but that is just unacceptable. Kholek wouldn't lose to swordsmen 
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Jun 2, 2016 11:31
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Fangz posted:I am in possession of a fresh new army of Terrorgheists and Vargheists. Can someone give me a quick run-down on how to get the best out of them? Here's the lesson I learned first time I used vargheists in particular: they're more fragile than they look and can't really take on whole units by themselves. This applies to most monstrous units, really, but vargheists have felt especially prone to getting bogged down and murdered. They've got great offensive stats, though, so use them as flying shock cavalry to hit engaged units in the flank, or to hunt down war machines, archers or lone casters. Terrorgheists, on the other hand, are relatively weak offensively but can take a beating. They can eat infantry (or cavalry) units if you give them time, but they've got low leadership and crumble quickly if surrounded and not within your lord's leadership aura. edit: here's a cool TW: Warhammer opinion from a TWC poster quote:i prefer not to use to "fantasy" units in my armies peer fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 11:52
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The Lone Badger posted:The AI can pop lords from nowhere, right? Doesn't need a city. Everyone can do that, not just AI. You can't have an army without a lord, so the game lets you replace one if they die/get wounded.
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Jun 2, 2016 12:34
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The AI doesn't get any more range than players, but they almost always use march stance when they aren't attacking - since you can't attack in march stance yourself, it means that if they don't want to fight you, they will always be able to outrun you because they can march and you can't. If you switch to march stance yourself you can see that you could easily outpace them - not that it would do any good since you'd still have to wait another turn to attack (at which point they'll have moved out of range again no matter where you position your army).
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Jun 2, 2016 12:41
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Ammanas posted:Stack, ascetic, raise. Siege, not seig
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Jun 2, 2016 13:00
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Disappointed that goblin spider riders can't climb walls, booooo
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Jun 2, 2016 13:15
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Does Sigvald have some sort of Sex Castle in Norsa? Where do all the non-Khornates hang out? Does the Inevitable City exist outside the MMO?
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Jun 2, 2016 13:23
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