USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

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FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Luminous Obscurity posted:

“I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three ~~transgender~~ black young adults over six feet with deep voices entered,” she writes. “My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer.”

Its uncanny.

"I, a person in a manager role with the ACLU, forgot to explain to my kids that sometimes people just get born with a soul that doesn't match their body parts and these days we have the technology and science to help these people's bodies live up to what their souls always were"

Oh wait Georgia

# ? Jun 2, 2016 15:57

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# ? May 29, 2024 03:19

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

Dexo posted:

Any social issue, replace the word with Black and it will probably tell you which side of the argument you should be on.

we shouldn't make fun of Blacks just because they dress up like ponies and talk about masturbating to children's cartoons. :ohdear:

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:02

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

My views on furries will be what embarrasses my grandchildren at thanksgiving.

"You can't call them that anymore!"

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:05

The Iron Rose: May 12, 2012; Cat Army

FAUXTON posted:

"I, a person in a manager role with the ACLU, forgot to explain to my kids that sometimes people just get born with a soul that doesn't match their body parts and these days we have the technology and science to help these people's bodies live up to what their souls always were"

Oh wait Georgia

to be fair, i worked for the ACLU too and look how that turned out

RZA Encryption posted:

My views on furries will be what embarrasses my grandchildren at thanksgiving.

"You can't call them that anymore!"

has someone posted the pets comic yet

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:08

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

Mozi posted:

Nice of her to admit to being a bad parent who isn't able to explain how people can be different and still get along.

It's downright amazing how many evil liberal plots boil down to "I was forced to admit to my kids that I am not an infallible god of knowledge."

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:09

JUST MAKING CHILI: Feb 14, 2008

Taima posted:

The internet generations won't have as much of a problem staying in basic touch with reality. Won't solve the problem, but it will be a lot better than it is now.

I don't even know how old people formed their opinions, but I assume it was a series of racist campfire stories. That's how people used to learn stuff before the internet, right?

This is a cute and naive view of the Internet. My sister gets all her news from crazy antivaxx websites, my old high school friends get their news from foxnews.com, which are conservative echo chambers just like the liberal news sources and this thread are liberal echo chambers.

I mean, stormfront.com exists. There will be miserable racists and stupids no matter what, the Internet just gives them an avenue to reach the rest of the world, not to reeducate them with rightthink.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:37

Paradoxish: Dec 19, 2003; Will you stop going crazy in there?

Nessus posted:

I'm going to step back to this. This actually seems to be the normal state of affairs, historically. Newspapers were often comically biased and brazen about that bias, and of course newspapers were the best you could get. I believe the moderation and sense of some kind of unified national political outlook is going to turn out to be a historical anomaly caused by the economics of radio and television transmission and the relative peace and plenty of the post-war United States, rather than some kind of profound law or ideal state from which we have deviated or fallen.

I wasn't suggesting anything like this, just that it's easier to do what we've always done: insulate ourselves within a bubble of news that primarily reinforces our own biases. People in general don't want to read things that upset them or challenge their views. Technology is just slowly and steadily filling a demand that's always been there.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:49

Xanderkish: Aug 10, 2011; Hello!

So people talk about misinformation a lot. Does anyone here remember what it was like BEFORE the internet with information? I was born after then so obviously I can't compare.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:50

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

The LA Times took a steaming poo poo on the Gates Foundation's huckster ed reform efforts.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:54

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD: Jul 7, 2012

I am starting a political science masters this fall with a focus on US and need to get back on top of my poo poo, especially with regard to elections. I'd love rec's on books that will help me do that � I'm ordering the newest edition of Jacobson's Politics of Congressional Elections but curious as to what else I ought to read before I start.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 16:58

Combed Thunderclap: Jan 4, 2011

One of the arguments as to why the media is such poo poo is that they used to specialize in informing the ignorant; today the ignorant have all become the misinformed and the media's really bad at re-educating someone because they tend to set off the misinformed's BS alarms that the misinformation has installed in their heads.

Bit of a simplistic explanation for a complex phenomenon (especially since the linked report argues we need more news explainers like Vox, and it's not like the misinformed are ever going to visit Vox or listen to explanations, and even Vox doesn't do a good job at explaining things half the time), but it seems eminently plausible. :shrug:

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:00

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

theflyingorc posted:

we shouldn't make fun of Blacks just because they dress up like ponies and talk about masturbating to children's cartoons.

They were born in a human body, when their soul is that of a horse. Don't shame them into being something they aren't :v:

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:00

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

I am starting a political science masters this fall with a focus on US and need to get back on top of my poo poo, especially with regard to elections. I'd love rec's on books that will help me do that – I'm ordering the newest edition of Jacobson's Politics of Congressional Elections but curious as to what else I ought to read before I start.

I've got Do Not Ask What Good We Do coming up on my reading list, maybe you ~~could read it first and tell me if it's good so I can maybe dodge a bullet~~ would like it

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:03

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

The UCLA shooter had a hit list in his home including the professor he shot and woman in Minnesota. The LAPD said she was found dead today.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:08

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

So some nutbag on facebook keeps posting these...oh that's the Lt. Governor of Texas.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:10

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

zoux posted:

So some nutbag on facebook keeps posting these...oh that's the Lt. Governor of Texas.

Oh thank god. I thought that was Dan Patrick from the sports show. One of the few Sports radio guys I actually like.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:12

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Dexo posted:

Oh thank god. I thought that was Dan Patrick from the sports show. One of the few Sports radio guys I actually like.

His name used to be Dan Goeb but you know, too ethnicky.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:13

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

zoux posted:

So some nutbag on facebook keeps posting these...oh that's the Lt. Governor of Texas.

you mean the dan patrick who took political contributions and then decided not to pursue a class-action suit against the person he took money from?

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:13

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Somebody in one of the teacher threads in SAL a while back said that all the faculty in their college had to go to a workshop on de-escalating angry students because the administration was concerned about shootings. I'm so glad I'm not in college now.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:14

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

zoux posted:

So some nutbag on facebook keeps posting these...oh that's the Lt. Governor of Texas.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:16

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Luigi Thirty posted:

Somebody in one of the teacher threads in SAL a while back said that all the faculty in their college had to go to a workshop on de-escalating angry students because the administration was concerned about shootings. I'm so glad I'm not in college now.

i have sat through this training. it's as miserable as you can imagine.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:16

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

zoux posted:

So some nutbag on facebook keeps posting these...oh that's the Lt. Governor of Texas.

"Signs stop crimes" - Lt Gov of Texas Dan Patrick

Luigi Thirty posted:

Somebody in one of the teacher threads in SAL a while back said that all the faculty in their college had to go to a workshop on de-escalating angry students to prevent shootings after they passed campus carry. I'm so glad I'm not in college now.

More than a few professors left or retired, because lol encouraging 18-21 year old men to carry guns everywhere after raising them to worship them.

Weirdly enough you still can't take an assault rifle into Abbot's office so I guess they still hate freedom in Texas

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:16

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Speaking of Violence on Campus and Activitism -- Holly Anderson (who is one of my favorite people in the world to read, and is a wonderful person in person) has a great read up on the MTV News site (which is also fantastic, btw)

quote:

We couldn�t bring ourselves to care hard enough, for long enough, to stand with the parents of massacred kids in Connecticut, with the families of literal Christian martyrs in South Carolina, or in honor of hundreds of other dead Americans, all those snapped threads of possibility that never made cable news because they died without a sufficiently glossy narrative hook. We�ve given the barest acknowledgement to the fact that our countrymen doing most of the spree killing are this nation�s fortunate sons. They�re people who look like the people who�re paying the most money to let them keep at it, to satisfy their own broke-dick carnival-mirror notion of masculinity. And then, every time, we�ve looked away, in time to avoid reckoning, really reckoning with the human cost of this lethally narrow idea of the world.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2887829/wear-orange-day-2016/

BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 2, 2016

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:21

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Opioid abuse: it's not just for poor white people http://www.vox.com/2016/6/2/11591014/prince-painkiller-overdose-death

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:22

Rhesus Pieces: Jun 27, 2005

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Speaking of Violence on Campus and Activitism -- Holly Anderson (who is one of my favorite people in the world to read, and is a wonderful person in person) has a great read up on the MTV News site (which is also fantastic, btw)

http://www.mtv.com/news/2887829/wear-orange-day-2016/

Yeah it seems like out of nowhere MTV scooped up a bunch of very talented writers and has been putting out top notch material, good on them.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:28

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Paradoxish posted:

I wasn't suggesting anything like this, just that it's easier to do what we've always done: insulate ourselves within a bubble of news that primarily reinforces our own biases. People in general don't want to read things that upset them or challenge their views. Technology is just slowly and steadily filling a demand that's always been there.

I would disagree. It's always been very easy for members of certain groups, depending on location and time, to isolate in bubbles of views that reinforce them, what the internet makes possible is to do that for practically everyone.

Consider for instance how large cities used to have multiple openly politically tilted newspapers in opposition to each other. If you were a Democrat you only read the Times-Gazette-Picayune or whatever and so on.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:30

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Rhesus Pieces posted:

Yeah it seems like out of nowhere MTV scooped up a bunch of very talented writers and has been putting out top notch material, good on them.

Part of that is Holly's doing after Grantland died. She's a fantastic twitter follow, btw.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:31

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

fishmech posted:

I would disagree. It's always been very easy for members of certain groups, depending on location and time, to isolate in bubbles of views that reinforce them, what the internet makes possible is to do that for practically everyone.

Yeah well the weird sex guys are a lot better than the weird politics guys.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:32

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

lol republicans

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:35

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

lol republicans

It's a helpful bit of perspective. Imagine a Democrat trying to run for president in '04 or even '08 on any platform other than, "Government is too big! Cut benefits! REAGANOMICS!!!"

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:41

Thaddius the Large: Jul 5, 2006; It's in the five-hole!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Part of that is Holly's doing after Grantland died. She's a fantastic twitter follow, btw.

Yeah, I loved her sports stuff alone, but have been pretty impressed now that she's focusing on politics.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:42

Combed Thunderclap: Jan 4, 2011

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

lol republicans

And the same thing is about to happen with the SCOTUS nominee :dance:

This is actually why I haven't been posting much in USPOL the past few weeks, all I want to post is variants of cheerleading the death of the GOP, and that's a lot more fun to read than it is to write.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:42

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

Dexo posted:

Any social issue, replace the word with Black and it will probably tell you which side of the argument you should be on.

"Facists deserve to have their opinions ridiculed and ignored"

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:45

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

I'm still pretty sure that they'll be able to snake themselves out of this one and still remain the dominant force in US politics because that's what's happened every time beforehand.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:45

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

zoux posted:

I'm still pretty sure that they'll be able to snake themselves out of this one and still remain the dominant force in US politics because that's what's happened every time beforehand.

I don't think they're going to die or even really go anywhere, but they aren't likely to win any national contests soon, and they're on the verge of losing SCOTUS for a generation.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:46

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

Having SCOTUS in our corner for the first time since I was playing with He-Man toys is going to be amazing. Just imagining the sour look that Roberts will get on his face every time he's getting crushed by a 6-3 decision on his own court is making me smile.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:52

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Business Gorillas posted:

"Facists deserve to have their opinions ridiculed and ignored"

I did say probably...

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:53

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Speaking of Violence on Campus and Activitism -- Holly Anderson (who is one of my favorite people in the world to read, and is a wonderful person in person) has a great read up on the MTV News site (which is also fantastic, btw)

http://www.mtv.com/news/2887829/wear-orange-day-2016/

Part of this I think is that the gun rights movement has so firmly won at least as far as our political leaders are concerned that people just don't want to process the horror of reality and not think about these things. The impression is that there really is nothing to do because politicians will never go against the gun lobby and if a school of dead kids can't force their hand then what possibly can?

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:53

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

further on social security, and against the bully pulpit/conversations shift the overton window framing:

quote:

In a speech this week in Indiana, President Barack Obama announced a major shift in his position on Social Security. �It�s time we finally made Social Security more generous and increased its benefits,� Obama declared, �so today�s retirees and future generations get the dignified retirement that they have earned.�

This is a welcome change from Obama�s past support for a so-called Grand Bargain that likely would have included cuts to Social Security benefits. It is tempting to view it as evidence of how Obama �really� thinks about the issue, in the same way that his support for gay marriage, after years of opposing it, was seen as a reflection of his real views. But the shift on Social Security isn�t about Obama per se. Rather, it�s an excellent example of how political pressure from below can facilitate change. It also demonstrates the limitations of a president�s ability to impose his vision on the country.

Until 2014, Obama�s budget proposals included an offer to reduce the growth of Social Security benefits by changing how the cost-of-living increase is calculated, in exchange for a deal including upper-class tax cuts. Obama, in other words, has not only dropped even contingent proposed cuts, but is also calling for an expansion of benefits. This is a big deal.

Admittedly, on a substantive level, it isn�t much different from his previous position. Tying �chained-CPI� Social Security cuts to upper-class tax cuts no Republican Congress was ever going to pass was an indication that Obama was not actually trying to cut Social Security. The idea was to propose �entitlement reforms� that Beltway journalists tend to love in a form that would ensure Republican rejection. I happen to think this was dumb politics�no special effort is required to make the Republican conference look rejectionist, and being even theoretically open to such cuts weakens the Democratic brand and diminishes the ability of Democrats to attack Republicans for going to war on Social Security. But there�s no reason to believe Obama had any particular commitment to cutting Social Security.

What has changed, then, is the politics. The leader of the Democratic Party believes it�s in his political interest to support expanding rather than cutting Social Security. The pushback against chained-CPI from both Democratic voters and many congressional Democrats was crucial in making this happen. And you can bet Obama has been paying attention to Bernie Sanders�s strong presidential run, too, which has shown there is an appetite for a stronger welfare state. He changed his public position on Social Security for the same reason he belatedly came out in support of same-sex marriage rights: that�s where the party was.

What�s interesting about this dynamic is that it is precisely the opposite of what should have happened according to a popular theory of political change that focuses on the president imposing his will on the public.

The �Overton Window,� posthumously named after the conservative think tank writer Joseph Overton, holds that there is a range of policy changes considered acceptable to the mainstream. Politicians are unlikely to step well outside of that window, so the center of gravity is crucial and attempting to move it is essential for transformative political change.

One variant of the Overton Window combines the idea with a belief in the power of the presidential bully pulpit. When presidents push for major policy changes, the theory goes, they win even if they lose in the short term. George W. Bush�s big push to privatize Social Security in his second term might have crashed and burned�but by moving the political center of gravity, it made some kind of privatization, or at least big Social Security cuts, more palatable.

But, in fact, Bush�s big push was, from a liberal perspective, the best thing to ever happen to the program. If anything, Bush�s failed initiative moved the political center of gravity on the issue to the left, making major cuts to Social Security benefits politically toxic.

Remember, Bill Clinton in his second term was open to at least some form of private accounts, and might well have cut a deal with congressional Republicans if not for the Lewinsky scandal. In contrast, while bad policy, the chained-CPI cuts Obama theoretically offered would not have fundamentally changed the program. And even theoretical Social Security cuts that had no chance of passing generated enough opposition within the Democratic Party to compel Obama to support expanding benefits rather than cutting them.

You can see a similar drift leftward on the Republican side, where there has been notably less enthusiasm about repeating Bush�s politically suicidal act. Paul Ryan�s 2011 budget, which called for a wide array of cuts as well as the privatization of Medicare, did not include any proposal for changing Social Security at all, instead proposing the kind of bipartisan blue-ribbon panel politicians call for when they don�t want to actually do anything. And the Republican candidate for president, Donald Trump, is not only against Bush-style privatization, but opposes Social Security cuts altogether.

Presidents proposing policy changes outside the Overton Window might make more radical changes seem plausible. It can also backfire and move the window in the opposite direction. The latter is what Bush inadvertently accomplished. There�s no empirical or theoretical reason to think that presidents pushing hard and failing to advance a policy directive is the path to political progress.

Policy change, in other words, rarely comes from the top of the party down. It comes from the bottom up. Barack Obama changed because of pressure within the party. And the pressure needs to keep coming to ensure that Hillary Clinton joins him.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:55

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# ? May 29, 2024 03:19

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

I don't get why folk are pushing this whole trans poo poo. Don't they understand that most Americans don't give a poo poo at best? It just doesn't win any votes, and completely baffles my mind as to why any politician would do something that loses votes.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 17:56

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