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Dead Reckoning posted:Man, that raises some awkward questions about the way D&D talks about gun owners.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:34
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Sometimes it's just really easy and simple to get on the right side of a social issue. This is less often true of economic justice, and efforts to misrepresent and obfuscate economic justice on the occasions when the solution is simple have been more succesful, but if anything, that just tells me that people interested in economic justice should learn from the successes of social justice. I'd rather fight for economic justice which impacts 51% of voters than I would for a wedge issue which impacts less than .1% of voters. I am for LGBT rights -- dudes using womens bathrooms is not the loving hill to die on, it reeks of hippie dippy bullshit.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:34
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Xanderkish posted:e: ^ Nah man, I agree with you. Please read some comments on literally any local news site
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Jun 2, 2016 18:35
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WampaLord posted:loving lol at "last battle." I think that you're using different definitions of "culture war", chief. edit: My Imaginary GF posted:I'd rather fight for economic justice which impacts 51% of voters than I would for a wedge issue which impacts less than .1% of voters. I am for LGBT rights -- dudes using womens bathrooms is not the loving hill to die on, it reeks of hippie dippy bullshit.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:35
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Crowsbeak posted:No the third way goes either way on culture issues,sometimes when they think its convenient they hold hearings about the evil lyrics in rock movement, then when its convenient they suddenly love trans rights. You literally empty quoted MGiF
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Jun 2, 2016 18:35
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My Imaginary GF posted:I'd rather fight for economic justice which impacts 51% of voters than I would for a wedge issue which impacts less than .1% of voters. I am for LGBT rights -- dudes using womens bathrooms is not the loving hill to die on, it reeks of hippie dippy bullshit. Fortunately this issue is about making sure dudes aren't forced to use women's bathrooms. 
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Jun 2, 2016 18:36
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I am starting a political science masters this fall with a focus on US and need to get back on top of my poo poo, especially with regard to elections. I'd love rec's on books that will help me do that – I'm ordering the newest edition of Jacobson's Politics of Congressional Elections but curious as to what else I ought to read before I start. I recall Flanigan & Zingale's stuff being useful for basics some time back, but I dunno about it being grad level.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:37
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Is anyone else really glad it's Hillary going up against Trump? I could see other candidates underestimating him. Hillary has been burned before, and she's going to campaign at 110% the whole way, like the rear end in a top hat high school football team throwing touchdowns while they're up by 70 with two minutes left.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:37
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theflyingorc posted:this is only ok to me if the gun IS NOT gay only if it's your gun touching your bro's gun or letting him touch your gun is super gay
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Jun 2, 2016 18:38
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Business Gorillas posted:Trans rights is also the last battle of the culture war so it's a really convenient way for third way democrats to pretend they're actually liberals without having progressive policy impact them in any meaningful way, shape, or form Pretty sure the Culture War is a Forever War, as long as there is someone over 60 there will be something that they object to. Not that it necessarily breaks down by age all the time. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Sometimes it's just really easy and simple to get on the right side of a social issue. This is less often true of economic justice, and efforts to misrepresent and obfuscate economic justice on the occasions when the solution is simple have been more succesful, but if anything, that just tells me that people interested in economic justice should learn from the successes of social justice. This may just have been a throw away line, but what could economic justice issues do differently? Is the success of social liberals from an increased effort to personalize and make people identify with the issues, such as gay people that they know, while economic justice is trapped in archaic rhetoric?
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Jun 2, 2016 18:38
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Regular Nintendo posted:Please read some comments on literally any local news site Whoa these kinds of threats are frowned upon.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:38
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Government!  Business Gorillas posted:"Facists deserve to have their opinions ridiculed and ignored" Classifying fascism as a social issue is quite a stretch.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:39
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:You literally empty quoted MGiF I know, i feel dirty. But also a stopped clock.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:40
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WampaLord posted:loving lol at "last battle." It's the last thing I think we're going to deal with on the same national fervor as the trans rights debate has been on. I'm not sure that states are going to impeach a sitting president on "why can't we shoot black people" during an election year but I suppose I have room to be disappointed.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:40
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I am actually surprised that some goons have come out against lettings trans people the right bathroom because it is an inefficient use of political resources. I'm not exactly sure what would be a better use of resources.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:41
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Trabisnikof posted:I am actually surprised that some goons have come out against lettings trans people the right bathroom because it is an inefficient use of political resources. I'm not exactly sure what would be a better use of resources. Didn't you literally argue, like a week ago, about how we shouldn't be pushing this in an election year?
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Jun 2, 2016 18:42
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Trabisnikof posted:I am actually surprised that some goons have come out against lettings trans people the right bathroom because it is an inefficient use of political resources. I'm not exactly sure what would be a better use of resources. Hey I just know people who are left wing on other issues who don't much like this IRL. Also I'd rather spend political capital on raising the minimum wage, helping Adjuncts unionize, or reforming the police forces.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:43
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Trabisnikof posted:I am actually surprised that some goons have come out against lettings trans people the right bathroom because it is an inefficient use of political resources. I'm not exactly sure what would be a better use of resources. Also, it's proving to be a mega loser for the right, so we aren't actually spending resources or capital.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Hey I just know people who are left wing on other issues who don't much like this IRL. Also I'd rather spend political capital on raising the minimum wage, helping Adjuncts unionize, or reforming the police forces. Because civil rights should take a back burner because ~reasons!~ Get the gently caress out.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Hey I just know people who are left wing on other issues who don't much like this IRL. Also I'd rather spend political capital on raising the minimum wage, helping Adjuncts unionize, or reforming the police forces. They aren't really burning political capital, that's not how it works. They're taking advantage of a tire fire their opponents are setting that makes them(the opponents) look stupid. They're jumping on this so hard because it wins them MORE political capital.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:45
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Morrow posted:This may just have been a throw away line, but what could economic justice issues do differently? Is the success of social liberals from an increased effort to personalize and make people identify with the issues, such as gay people that they know, while economic justice is trapped in archaic rhetoric? Well, I look at it this way: as a country we don't do enough to address racial inequality, but we have the language to discuss it, and a model of how to do things differently -- a model that may be very far from reality, but something that we're rightly very hesitant to compromise on. By comparison, we probably do more for the poor in general -- but suggesting that the very existence and acceptance of poverty as an idea is a shameful, black mark on our society in the way racism is would be a pretty weird, radical idea, even for the mainstream left. I freely admit that maybe this does exist and I just don't move in the right circles, but to cite something that I do actually know a little bit about -- imagine if "poor" were a protected class under equal protection, and the sheer loving chaos that would necessarily result.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Fortunately this issue is about making sure dudes aren't forced to use women's bathrooms. So let post-ops use the restroom of their gender identity, and pre-ops use the restroom of their birth.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:48
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Isn't the concept of "political capital" where you give something and then later get something in return somewhat outdated? Today's conservative politicians seem all in on the idea of burning everything to the ground if it advances their agenda so comprising with them for the promise of future return seems incredibly naive. It's not like ignoring trans rights is going to make the fight for labor rights any easier because Republicans will only let THIS many of the Democrat's stuff through based on what they've gotten so far.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:48
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Trabisnikof posted:I am actually surprised that some goons have come out against lettings trans people the right bathroom because it is an inefficient use of political resources. I'm not exactly sure what would be a better use of resources. Sorry if this offends you but I literally don't give a single poo poo who pisses where so long as they have proper bathroom etiquette and learn the social norms for urinal use I'm saying it's really easy for a hedge fund manager to pat themselves on the back for being progressive and forward thinking because they Facebook liked an interview with that trans woman from Orange is the New Black.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:49
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zoux posted:Also, it's proving to be a mega loser for the right, so we aren't actually spending resources or capital. That sounds like something an out of touch urbanite would think. You're loving killing the F and the L from the DFL with this culture war bullshit.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:49
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Didn't you literally argue, like a week ago, about how we shouldn't be pushing this in an election year? I was arguing this wasn't going to doom NC Republicans, it's still a good idea even if Republicans don't lose elections over it. Crowsbeak posted:Hey I just know people who are left wing on other issues who don't much like this IRL. Also I'd rather spend political capital on raising the minimum wage, helping Adjuncts unionize, or reforming the police forces. It is interesting how a certain segment of self-proclaimed leftist can't seem to handle leftists policies that don't benefit them in any particular way. The idea that Obama's actions on rights of transgender Americans will have any impact on raising the minimum wage is absurd of course, but why would political realities matter to the kind of "leftist" who thinks minority rights can wait for economic progress first.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:49
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My Imaginary GF posted:I'd rather fight for economic justice which impacts 51% of voters than I would for a wedge issue which impacts less than .1% of voters. I am for LGBT rights -- dudes using womens bathrooms is not the loving hill to die on, it reeks of hippie dippy bullshit. Normally I'd agree with you but in this case you have it backwards. The left isn't the one dying on a hill. This is a route. This is loving Pickett's Charge.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:50
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Radish posted:Isn't the concept of "political capital" where you give something and then later get something in return somewhat outdated? Today's conservative politicians seem all in on the idea of burning everything to the ground if it advances their agenda so comprising with them for the promise of future return seems incredibly naive. It's not like ignoring trans rights is going to make the fight for labor rights any more difficult because Republicans will only let THIS many of the Democrat's stuff through based on what they've gotten so far. Well, everyone thinks it is so they act accordingly. Also "gee I sure wish that trans people weren't discriminated against but these other concerns are so much more pressing" is the platonic ideal of concern trolling so we should all be thankful for having such a clear baseline to compare future concern trolls to,
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Jun 2, 2016 18:51
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This was a forums fuckup!!
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Jun 2, 2016 18:51
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Crowsbeak posted:I know, i feel dirty. But also a stopped clock. Aren't we in the same district? I'm glad you feel the same mood of the district as I do. Now get yourself plat so I can pm ya and let's grab some spotted cows this weekend.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:51
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Because civil rights should take a back burner because ~reasons!~ Wait are you saying police brutality isn't a civil rights issue?
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Jun 2, 2016 18:51
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Crowsbeak posted:Wait are you saying police brutality isn't a civil rights issue? 
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Jun 2, 2016 18:52
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Hey you're the one who objected to me bringing it up.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:53
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Radish posted:Isn't the concept of "political capital" where you give something and then later get something in return somewhat outdated? Today's conservative politicians seem all in on the idea of burning everything to the ground if it advances their agenda so comprising with them for the promise of future return seems incredibly naive. It's not like ignoring trans rights is going to make the fight for labor rights any easier because Republicans will only let THIS many of the Democrat's stuff through based on what they've gotten so far. Well if we push both and there is even a whiff of a possible attack angle of "higher taxes" or "affecting the middle class" then its back to square one of focusing on protected class rights (as long as you are "middle class"). We're going to end up like Brazil if we can't push the economic reforms or address wealth bloating.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:54
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Crowsbeak posted:Also I'd rather spend political capital on raising the minimum wage, helping Adjuncts unionize, or reforming the police forces. The US government is not a paradox interactive game; you do not take every official action by spending from your pool of political points. If anything letting trans people use the right bathroom makes it easier to do any of those other things in the future.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:54
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Dead Reckoning posted:Or most people realize that the odds of being killed by a mad school shooter is right up there with being struck by lightning, and don't worry about terrible but terribly unlikely events. Oh man what a good point, thanks for sharing. This totally explains why pro-gun advocates were calling for teachers to be armed or dedicated police or security roam the hallways with guns.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:55
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Unemployment among trans Americans is double that of other Americans, and yet this is somehow an "easy issue" that's totally solved and that everyone already agrees on Protecting the rights of minority groups *is* an issue of economic justice. Don't throw vulnerable groups to the wolves because it doesn't affect you, or you don't think it's a "serious enough" political topic. poo poo IS serious. It's not a coincidence that all this bathroom poo poo comes at the same time the murder rate for transgender Americans is at an all time high. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/13/transgender-homicide-victims-us-has-hit-historic-high Bullfrog fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:55
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The London Review of Books published an amazing essay a few months ago on "bathroom politics" in South Africa, with respect to apartheid and more acutely the Oscar Pistorius case. It's a thoughtful and worthwhile read, I've been dwelling on it during the trans conflagration. Phone posting or I'd highlight more: 
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Jun 2, 2016 18:56
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Doctor Butts posted:Oh man what a good point, thanks for sharing. This totally explains why pro-gun advocates were calling for teachers to be armed or dedicated police or security roam the hallways with guns. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is increased gun sales.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:00
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Bi now gay later please find me a full time job that isn't this one. I'm not going to make it until August
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Jun 2, 2016 19:01
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