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Sound to me that most Cubans don't want the country to model America, but China.
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May 29, 2016 05:18
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I think you are focusing too much on the particulars of the examples I've given and not on the broader idea that I am trying to get across. It's not about models, and its not like they are willing to give up on democracy for consumer goods. Another example I could have given is that they are proud of their education system, but would love to be able to run their small business out in the open (almost everyone I talked to participated in a black market of some form, from selling cakes to exchanging their food ration coupons to buying and selling their "paquetes" - flash drives with international movies or songs that are sold all over the place). The point being that they don't talk about it in grandiose, abstract terms. When talking about things like being able to open a business, or having freer, less censored internet, the argument isn't framed as a "freedom" argument, but as "it would make my life easier" argument. And, once again, the caveat that I can't speak about "most" anything. But it did strike me as fairly interesting that the sort of passion you see in debates about Cuba where people tend to go straight to extremes is not common there.
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May 29, 2016 07:05
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Protest against Temer in Sao Paulo today. Certainly the police acted with the same respect and restraint as they did in the anti-Dilma protests, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOHxtKcmsSo
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Jun 2, 2016 01:44
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joepinetree posted:Protest against Temer in Sao Paulo today. Certainly the police acted with the same respect and restraint as they did in the anti-Dilma protests, right? I like how the 3 comments in this video are like "they deserved it".
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Jun 2, 2016 04:19
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The supreme irony is that the woman who was punched, thrown to the ground and then pinned down by half a dozen policemen was there because of the earlier protest against violence against women.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:00
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joepinetree posted:The supreme irony is that the woman who was punched, thrown to the ground and then pinned down by half a dozen policemen was there because of the earlier protest against violence against women. No, no, irony is when something happens contrary to expectations.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:32
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joepinetree posted:I think you are focusing too much on the particulars of the examples I've given and not on the broader idea that I am trying to get across. It's not about models, and its not like they are willing to give up on democracy for consumer goods. Another example I could have given is that they are proud of their education system, but would love to be able to run their small business out in the open (almost everyone I talked to participated in a black market of some form, from selling cakes to exchanging their food ration coupons to buying and selling their "paquetes" - flash drives with international movies or songs that are sold all over the place). The point being that they don't talk about it in grandiose, abstract terms. When talking about things like being able to open a business, or having freer, less censored internet, the argument isn't framed as a "freedom" argument, but as "it would make my life easier" argument. That seems to be pretty reasonable, they want reforms not necessarily revolution and more or less keep the advancements they have made. I mean it sounds basically they want literally the NEP. It seems like the government could gain a lot of good will if they just liberalize businesses up to ten or twenty people or so but more or less keep the rest of the system intact. Also, it sounds like they don't want either the US or China, in all honesty the healthcare system in China sucks and the best care is very often too expensive for people to afford.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:58
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So what they want is perestroika.
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Jun 2, 2016 21:02
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Things in Brazil just got very interesting. The attorney general has just requested the arrests of Sarney, Renan, and Juca. Sarney and Juca in particular were very active in promoting the impeachment. Which, in turn, has led a bunch of people that claimed to be anti-corruption to request the removal of the attorney general because arresting those two will make the impeachment less likely: https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/ForaJanot?src=hash
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Jun 7, 2016 21:36
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 (http://g1.globo.com/pr/parana/notic...utm_campaign=g1)
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Jun 8, 2016 16:42
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joepinetree posted:First, the telecommunications ministry has almost always been controlled by politicians who were extremely selective in terms of who would get concessions. The best example is Radio Favela. It is a radio station transmitting from a shanty town in Belo Horizonte. It started broadcasting in 1981, but was only able to get a permanent license in 2007. Forgot to say thank you for the effortpost. What I don't get is why people keep buying the newspapers if they are so obviously biased. Printing your own when the competition is mistrusted would be a smart business move. And putting up blogs is pretty much the easiest thing in the world, so I don't understand why the media landscape in Brazil hasn't fragmented if it's so dismal as you make it out to be.
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Jun 8, 2016 16:55
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there's carta capital who supports the government (although takes a lot of critical positions from the left) but it's definitely not a big contender
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Jun 8, 2016 16:57
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There's a handful of "independent" newspapers around, but you misunderstand: most of the population doesn't notice the bias (because those guys were the only media around for decades), so they really couldn't care less.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:13
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Dias posted:There's a handful of "independent" newspapers around, but you misunderstand: most of the population doesn't notice the bias (because those guys were the only media around for decades), so they really couldn't care less. That sounds like an overly simplistic explanation tho. And dangerously close to the "uneducated primitives don't know what's good for them" line.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:21
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Friendly Humour posted:That sounds like an overly simplistic explanation tho. And dangerously close to the "uneducated primitives don't know what's good for them" line. What do you want me to say tho, those are the facts. Like, Globo is omnipresent in Brazil, even nowadays with widespread Internet and cable. When you hear the one voice over and over and over, you kinda take their word as fiat.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:45
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In my opinion there's bias sure, but people way over-exaggerate it. Like, I'd say it's CNN level of bias. It's the old brazilian pessimism: Brazil must be absolutely bad and fail at everything. And that includes newscasting. And even then, the influence of the media is not that great. Even if the brazilian media were less biased, people's opinions would be pretty much the same. People just don't listen to the news all that much. Take Trump in the US. I feel like pretty much every newspaper shits on him, you could argue if this is bias or if they're just presenting how Trump really is. But my point is that whatever it is, it doesn't seem to do much to Trump's popularity.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:58
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The primary source of news seems to be Facebook for many. And the right is running pretty intense campaigns on social media. The traditional press basically serves to confirm biases in the more extreme views on Facebook by disproportionately reporting for and against certain figures and parties, downplaying events or barely covering them. It's not actively promoting one side in the kind of barefaced manner as I've seen in some Fox News / pundit clips from the past.
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Jun 8, 2016 18:10
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Symbolic Butt posted:In my opinion there's bias sure, but people way over-exaggerate it. Like, I'd say it's CNN level of bias. Nah, the bias is noticeable, it's just voiced subtly. I feel like some people hear the word "media bias" and expect Fox News-level rhetoric (That's just Globonews). We are talking about the people that edited a presidential debate to screw up one of the candidates back in the 90s. We're also talking about the people that barely mentioned the Panama Papers leak, and whose southern affiliate tries very hard not to mention the Zelotes investigation because they're kinda part of it.
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Jun 8, 2016 18:17
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Globo is the most prevalent cultural influence in Brazil, you can put it right alongside Football in terms of national institutions. Also, loving LOL at the city of São Paulo. São Paulo's deputies approve Day of Combat Against Christophobia, as Evangelics are a persecuted minority. Best part is the argument.  (because Estadão doesn't let you copy and paste their articles) "Today, the Christian, specially the Evangelic, has his opinions censored for some opinions. You have a minority being denied its rights, such as freedom of expression and, even, sometimes, freedom of worship. The Christian, today, can't say anything about homo-affection that he is characterized as an homophobe. In other words: he says he is against the practice of homossexuality, he's homophobic. You have this subject being very restrained," said the councilman, to exemplify the attacks that, according to him, the evangelic minority would be a victim of. Christians are not allowed to be bigots and so they are being persecuted.
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Jun 8, 2016 18:37
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Are the misspellings of tolhida intentional?
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Jun 8, 2016 18:54
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Are the misspellings of tolhida intentional? Freudian slip.
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Jun 8, 2016 18:57
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Friendly Humour posted:Forgot to say thank you for the effortpost. What I don't get is why people keep buying the newspapers if they are so obviously biased. Printing your own when the competition is mistrusted would be a smart business move. And putting up blogs is pretty much the easiest thing in the world, so I don't understand why the media landscape in Brazil hasn't fragmented if it's so dismal as you make it out to be. The competition isn't mistrusted, given how much they dominate. Again, you are asking why blogs and alternative newspapers aren't more successful in a country where the dictatorship and several local governments have done everything they can to ensure their hegemony. Globo's average audience on a nightly basis is what the superbowl ratings are in the US. Symbolic Butt posted:In my opinion there's bias sure, but people way over-exaggerate it. Like, I'd say it's CNN level of bias. No, people don't exaggerate it. And it is not even about opinions. Aecio beat his then girlfriend, now wife, in public. No major newspaper ever touched the story, only a couple of columnists that dared him to sue them. Zeze Perrella''s helicopter with half a ton of cocaine isn't mentioned by anyone other than blogs (and even that they can't anymore). The Marinho family is involved in the Panama papers as a way of paying for a house illegally built in a nature preserve. I know the guy who did the current tv segment on Aecio. I know a guy who was the press secretary for the public safety secretary during Aecio's term as governor. News stories, especially at the local level, are written in conjunction with politicians. You can bet that if any of those things happened in the US, even fox news level of manipulation would be able to keep it quiet. Go one by one through the list of Globo affiliates and you will see that virtually all of them are owned by politicians. ACM's family owns the Bahia globo affiliate, the Sarneys the Maranhao one, and so on.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:01
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The only silver lining is thst the Marinho brothers in charge of Globo have all the fucktardery yet none of the cunning that their father had and unless they get Temer to renew a stream of government money for the next ten years they are gonna ruin the empire sooner than later.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:20
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Well then, as much as it pains me to say it, I guess Chomsky was right when he spoke about manufacturing consent. I still baffles me that people keep buying newspapers and watching stations whose political ties are so plain for everyone to see, but I guess that's my European racism springing up again. You'd think that half a century of brutal military dictatorship would inculcate a sense of distrust towards the establisment narrative in the oppressed.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:40
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Friendly Humour posted:Well then, as much as it pains me to say it, I guess Chomsky was right when he spoke about manufacturing consent. I still baffles me that people keep buying newspapers and watching stations whose political ties are so plain for everyone to see, but I guess that's my European racism springing up again. You'd think that half a century of brutal military dictatorship would inculcate a sense of distrust towards the establisment narrative in the oppressed. but you see, my family was just fine during the dictatorship, if you didnt do anything wrong you had nothing to fear
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Jun 8, 2016 19:53
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I've seen a guy literally talk over his wife, who lived near a university, as she described a couple of well liked neighbours who were academics that disappeared, saying that that was rubbish and the dictatorship just beat up some students and everything seemed fine at the time (He was six years old.)
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Jun 8, 2016 20:14
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Friendly Humour posted:Forgot to say thank you for the effortpost. What I don't get is why people keep buying the newspapers if they are so obviously biased. Printing your own when the competition is mistrusted would be a smart business move. And putting up blogs is pretty much the easiest thing in the world, so I don't understand why the media landscape in Brazil hasn't fragmented if it's so dismal as you make it out to be. Er, I can't speak for other countries, but knowingly biased newspapers are still quite popular in the UK, and in those US cities where there's room for multiple independent papers still. If Americans and British who still buy papers still buy tons of blatantly biased papers, why wouldn't Brazilians or anyone else?
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Jun 8, 2016 20:31
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It's not exactly that they buy it, though. From the way I see it, most of the printed press is on the verge of collapse and steadily losing influential power, though they still have it.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:38
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fishmech posted:Er, I can't speak for other countries, but knowingly biased newspapers are still quite popular in the UK, and in those US cities where there's room for multiple independent papers still. If Americans and British who still buy papers still buy tons of blatantly biased papers, why wouldn't Brazilians or anyone else? That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah. Though the dilemma rises when you consider how blatantly corrupt the political scene in Brazil seems to be compared to Britain, at least from my extremely limited vantage point. And I'm not sure how to reconcile that without resorting to racist stereotypes.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:18
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Most of the printed press relies on ad buys from governments or state run business. But newspapers are the secondary thing here. It is impossible to understate how powerful globo is. Also, of course, the political ties are plain for everyone to see if you know where to look. Because none of the media will broadcast the obvious conflicts of interest. As for the "European" bit, if Berlusconi is possible in a country with a much better education system and wealth distribution, why not Brazil?
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Jun 8, 2016 21:22
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To be honest I don't understand why Italians voted for Berlusconi either, so I guess the problem is that I just don't understand people.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:32
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Friendly Humour posted:Well then, as much as it pains me to say it, I guess Chomsky was right when he spoke about manufacturing consent. I still baffles me that people keep buying newspapers and watching stations whose political ties are so plain for everyone to see, but I guess that's my European racism springing up again. You'd think that half a century of brutal military dictatorship would inculcate a sense of distrust towards the establisment narrative in the oppressed. No, it tends to select for kneejerk, sycophantic agreement with the establishment by making it a survival trait. And even when it's plain as day that the establishment is lying, the sheer preponderance of contradictory bullshit flying around makes it very, very hard to tell what the truth is.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:09
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Friendly Humour posted:What I don't get is why people keep buying the newspapers if they are so obviously biased. Do you... do you not know what a newspaper is for? Yes, the big front-page stories might be biased. But those are one page. People don't buy a paper for the front page, they buy a paper for the sports section, for the stock quotes, for the editorials and cartoons, for the coupons, etc. If all you care about is the top story, just look online and there that poo poo is. A newspaper is way, way more than that. Also, there's two things that people seem to be forgetting: bias is very, very rarely about printing lies, and most people assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Bias usually shows up by either not printing a story, or minimizing aspects of a story. Most of what gets printed is technically factual. Which means that reading a paper will inform you on that issue. It may only inform you on one side, it may dance around other aspects of the story that are important, but you will walk away knowing more in the end. So if I know absolutely nothing about Issue A, and I read a biased story about it, I will be more informed on Issue A. I will know things about it that I didn't know before. Those facts that I know are going to be calculated towards making me feel a certain way about Issue A, there will be facts about Issue A that I don't know because they weren't printed, but I will still know more about Issue A than I did before. I will still be more informed about it than if I'd never read that biased story. And most people will simply assume that if they continue reading stories from different papers about Issue A, they'll eventually be able to be completely informed and ferret out the truth. That's why a media monopoly is so insidious, because three different biased papers can write three different biased stories, and carefully shape public perception on that issue. And that's not even getting into the fact that most of a biased paper's readers support the biases of that paper. So instead of a bias, it's seen as "Telling it like it is."
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Jun 9, 2016 07:08
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What would be some good, shorter non-fiction books based around Colonial Latin America that I could use for a book review?
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Jun 10, 2016 20:26
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Hilarity time for those that can read Portuguese: http://epoca.globo.com/colunas-e-blogs/guilherme-fiuza/noticia/2016/06/carta-aos-covardes.html tl dr: This is a Globo group magazine and this colunist is suggesting that the "traditional" media of the world should stop being lazy and arrange better sources of brazilian news than people paid by PT that has ruined the country and want to turn this into Venezuela
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Jun 11, 2016 21:26
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Fiúza's also a loving former cocaine dealer, amazing how much the right here likes the powder.
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Jun 11, 2016 22:10
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Fiúza's also a loving former cocaine dealer, amazing how much the right here likes the powder. I think you might be mistaking him for the guy he wrote a book about (João Guilherme Estrella), unless there's something I don't know about the guy. I think he's just an rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 11, 2016 22:30
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What do the Brazilians itt make of DIlma's pledge for a referendum on new elections if she's not convicted? It seems like the entire process would take at least a year from whenever she's returned to whenever the new elections happen (if the referendum passes). It also seems like those new elections would be a total clusterfuck.
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Jun 11, 2016 22:35
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Badger of Basra posted:What do the Brazilians itt make of DIlma's pledge for a referendum on new elections if she's not convicted? It seems like the entire process would take at least a year from whenever she's returned to whenever the new elections happen (if the referendum passes). It also seems like those new elections would be a total clusterfuck. I think that's her best option really, the whole shebang left everyone burned out. People need to get in high spirits with a new government and genuinely believe that everything is gonna change and be alright, at least for a while. Also if I were Dilma I'd be so profoundly bitter that seriously, gently caress being president. I'm old, I don't need this poo poo in my life.
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Jun 11, 2016 23:59
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Lucy_Cominato posted:Hilarity time for those that can read Portuguese: Your description didn't do justice to how bad this is. It's so cringeworthy I can't read it. I can't believe a magazine can publish such a dumb childish rant.
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Jun 12, 2016 00:12
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