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So I've noticed that if I switch to two handed after a parry, the riposte doesn't actually seem to do any more damage that it would one handed. Is the same true of backstabs and guard breaks?
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Jun 2, 2016 17:26
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Lord_Magmar posted:I think this is actually the clue that Carthus and Smouldering Lake are part of Yhorm's lands, because he also has a few callbacks to DS2. Namely being a giant Lord and a few things about the children of the abyss being around. Not that this necessarily means it isn't related to DS2, but Smouldering Lake looks to me to be Ash Lake, specifically. Go to the boss arena and look out.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:30
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Soul of Cinder is being extremely brutal, any shield I use, he just mauls me, sorceries I can't really cast fast enough and even two-handing my magic buffed sword isn't that helpful because all my points are in int and faith. I can reliably dodge most of his moves except the curved sword moveset and the second phase just seems to combo me to death on the first mistake. A little hint? Or is it just: melee, dodge, git gud?
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Jun 2, 2016 17:34
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mortons stork posted:Soul of Cinder is being extremely brutal, any shield I use, he just mauls me, sorceries I can't really cast fast enough and even two-handing my magic buffed sword isn't that helpful because all my points are in int and faith. I can reliably dodge most of his moves except the curved sword moveset and the second phase just seems to combo me to death on the first mistake. A little hint? Or is it just: melee, dodge, git gud? Phase one is kind of a damage race to grind down the weapon stances you're bad at fighting, phase two is actually quite a bit easier if you stay at mid-range and bait his distance-closing attacks. They leave him wide open.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:38
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mortons stork posted:Soul of Cinder is being extremely brutal, any shield I use, he just mauls me, sorceries I can't really cast fast enough and even two-handing my magic buffed sword isn't that helpful because all my points are in int and faith. I can reliably dodge most of his moves except the curved sword moveset and the second phase just seems to combo me to death on the first mistake. A little hint? Or is it just: melee, dodge, git gud? Vigor is essential to every build in this game. put 5 levels into vigor and get 200 extra health to kill him.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:42
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NTT posted:Vigor is essential to every build in this game. put 5 levels into vigor and get 200 extra health to kill him. I have 20 vigour, I thought it was a good stopping point?
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Jun 2, 2016 17:47
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Vigor has been incredibly buffed in DS3 for PvE purposes. Just 5 levels or the prisoners chain will save you from a lot of attacks. Each level just gives you so much HP compared to 1/2. And yeah 20 is good. But equip the chain anyways Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 17:50
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mortons stork posted:Soul of Cinder is being extremely brutal, any shield I use, he just mauls me, sorceries I can't really cast fast enough and even two-handing my magic buffed sword isn't that helpful because all my points are in int and faith. I can reliably dodge most of his moves except the curved sword moveset and the second phase just seems to combo me to death on the first mistake. A little hint? Or is it just: melee, dodge, git gud? Mostly the git gud thing, unfortunately. If he's catching you in his giant combo in P2, that's basically a one hit KO no matter what. Watch for the sword to go back over his shoulder and delay a second while the burning noise gets a bit louder, that's your cue to run away screaming. If it's just normal swings comboing you, that's more just a matter of learning the dodge timing. Like most all of the bosses in this game, you'll probably do better if you're more aggressive. Sitting back and waiting for an opening just means you'll never get any staggers, which is your best chance to get a lot of damage in. Basically, dodge dodge dodge and if you're not dodging always be stabbing. Of course if you're gimped on your melee damage, that is going to make things harder. I've never tried him with any spells.  E: also try the carthus ring (forget if it's milk or blood) that gives you extra iframes on your dodge. Makes almost any dodge-heavy fight a lot more manageable.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:52
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20 Vigor seems pretty low for end-game IMO unless you're popping embers after every death. Phase one Soul of Cinder is about going ham on the easier weapon forms (straight sword, sorcery, maybe spear, definitely not curved sword) and playing defensively and dodging the ones that are tougher. SoC will eventually change forms if you kill enough time, so the big objective is just not taking hits when the boss has attack forms you don't like. Sorcery is by far his easiest form to punish. Phase two of Soul of Cinder, he'll usually do his super combo as his first or second attack in the phase. He starts it by holding his sword up and to his side a bit. If you get hit by any hit in this combo you get juggled for the rest and it can be straight-up death at low Vigor. However it's pretty easy to recognize the tell and you have enough time to simply roll a good distance away and let him do it. After he explodes you can rush in and punish a bit. Other than that, his miracles are a lot easier to punish. Otherwise just dodge his sword swipes and wait for opportunities to attack safely. He has less health in phase 2 but you don't want to trade hits like a dummy.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:58
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Iretep posted:doesent sprinting and then pressing R2 produce a jump attack too? not sure if its unparriable though since i havent met parry spammers yet. One secret is that if you push forward+r2 out of a roll it does a jumping attack that comes out pretty quickly. Only works if you're not locked on though which makes it tough to aim.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:08
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RyokoTK posted:20 Vigor seems pretty low for end-game IMO unless you're popping embers after every death. ....OH. I've been leveling up to be able to use heavy armor with my big club, which I gather as well as being actually impossible, is I'd also not even beneficial? Either way, I've got as much vigor as the knight starts out with at the end of Lothric castle...
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Jun 2, 2016 18:13
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Heavy armor is not worthwhile in this game, the damage reduction isn't that much higher and you have to spend points in Vitality to wear it. In a game where shields and rolling can completely mitigate all damage regardless of your armor, it's really not worth it at all. By the time I hit end-game I'm shooting for 35-40 Vigor, and even that can get you two- or three-shotted by a lot of the late bosses.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:17
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!Klams posted:....OH. I've been leveling up to be able to use heavy armor with my big club, which I gather as well as being actually impossible, is I'd also not even beneficial? Either way, I've got as much vigor as the knight starts out with at the end of Lothric castle... I do know that once I figured out that Vigor isn't a dump stat for scrub losers even in the earlier Dark Souls', the stories of my friends who beat many bosses first try while I took, like, 30, didn't seem that much like bragging at all anymore.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:20
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The one thing is that enemy damage is retardedly overtuned in the late game (starting from Lothric Castle, basically) and all the Vigor and heavy armor isn't going to stop you from getting loving pasted if you don't know how to roll. If you want to block a lot you really need a greatshield, but every boss does some kind of elemental damage as well when they attack so it doesn't even fully mitigate damage and it drains all your stamina so you can't attack.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:24
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RyokoTK posted:By the time I hit end-game I'm shooting for 35-40 Vigor, and even that can get you two- or three-shotted by a lot of the late bosses. I read that later bosses have attacks that just do a % of your health bar instead of a # which means your health total doesn't mean anything. I've never gone above 27 vigor and feel like I take about the same amount of damage you describe (although it's only 200-300 more health which is maybe one hit). Is that true or should I not have trusted PYF posters
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Jun 2, 2016 18:24
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Digirat posted:I read that later bosses have attacks that just do a % of your health bar instead of a # which means your health total doesn't mean anything. I've never gone above 27 vigor and feel like I take about the same amount of damage you describe (although it's only 200-300 more health which is maybe one hit). That sounds like bullshit to me. It's just that late bosses hit really goddamn hard so an extra 5 Vigor might not actually let you survive another big hit.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:28
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RyokoTK posted:The one thing is that enemy damage is retardedly overtuned in the late game (starting from Lothric Castle, basically) and all the Vigor and heavy armor isn't going to stop you from getting loving pasted if you don't know how to roll. If you want to block a lot you really need a greatshield, but every boss does some kind of elemental damage as well when they attack so it doesn't even fully mitigate damage and it drains all your stamina so you can't attack.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:30
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The hp from Vigor climbs quickly until you are getting 44 hp per level at 16 and 17. From 16-20 you get 214 hp, 3 times what you get from 36-40. From 17, the value of Vigor drops slowly until 26 VGR where you get 30 hp. At that point it drops quickly to 19 and then slowly drops to 13 hp at 40 VGR. From 40-49 it falls off the cliff again and from 50 on you are getting 2.5 hp per point. Unless you have some crazy glass cannon build, you should get: - 17-20 VGR as soon as you can stand it - 26 when you can but not at the expense of getting stats for a weapon or spell you want. - 40 if you have levels to spare, or want to be all tanky - 44-49 if you give two shits about soul levels If you want to pvp, move everything up a rank on this list. Get 26 ASAP and 40 when you can.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:47
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super fart shooter posted:So I've noticed that if I switch to two handed after a parry, the riposte doesn't actually seem to do any more damage that it would one handed. Is the same true of backstabs and guard breaks? No, it wont. That certain mechanic was only in DS1. And it was ridiculous with pre-nerf Hornet ring and a STR build.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:50
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RE: vigor - low vig can survive lategame boss's quicker attacks, or single attacks out of a combo. But more of the moderate attacks will oneshot you (ex. the fire sweep off Lorian's sword), and anything with a long windup will almost definitely oneshot you. Oceiros's typical attacks are incredibly weak, but his charge and if he grazes you when landing after his flying crystal breath will OHKO you. Most of Armour's attacks will OHKO, maybe not the shield bonk?
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Jun 2, 2016 19:01
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My first playthrough I finished with 20 vigor and I almost never popped embers. In retrospect this made it a lot harder than it needed to be. Of course this was also when I still thought that poise did something, so I had really high vitality to wear heavy armor.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:17
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Iretep posted:wait is parry spam an actual issue? dont most weapons have unparryable moves? No. The vast majority of weapons can be parried. Very few moves are actually immune to parry. Jumping attacks can be performed with any weapon but are super slow and easy to avoid so they are hardly a solution.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:42
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Every time I think I like PvP in this game I get parried for over 1600 damage and die in one hit, and I remember how degenerative and stupid it is.  I managed to avoid his first dozen parries and he got lucky with the 13th, and that was that.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:53
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I was able to solo the Twin Princes thanks to high-level pyromancy skills. I have 40 INT/FTH and a Pyromancy Glove +10 so is there any reason to put more stats into INT/FTH? I might start leveling my DEX to increase cast speed but I don't think it'll make much of a difference. All I have to do now is defeat Nameless King and the final boss and this playthrough is done. It was way easier than my halberd character.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:10
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I finished at 26-27 vigor w/o embers nor summons and I got there around the catacombs. At that point it felt like either I was taking some chip damage that I could survive without much issue and heal after, or it was a 2HKO and a few more levels of +20hp per vigor wasn't going to change that. The most difference it would've made is taking a weak hit, not healing, and later hit by part of a 2HKO and being more generous with my estus' fixed most of that. This isn't tested or anything, just how it felt playing through the game. I also got the Equip Load stat to 20 because I thought it would've made a difference beyond midrolling with Fashion Souls. e: Correction, I did summon vs the final boss so that I could get Yuria's gear without killing her. I haven't finished Archdragon Peak either, but I'm burned out on DS3 to bother.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:11
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DoubleCakes posted:I was able to solo the Twin Princes thanks to high-level pyromancy skills. I have 40 INT/FTH and a Pyromancy Glove +10 so is there any reason to put more stats into INT/FTH? Don't bother leveling dex just for faster casting speed. Just wear the ring that gives more cast speed. It makes your cast speed pretend you have a lot more dex than you actually do, and this invisible dex counts toward the casting speed cap for dex, so leveling dex stops helping very quickly, and you aren't going to want to get 40 dex just to be able to skip one ring. Owl Inspector fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 20:13
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RyokoTK posted:Every time I think I like PvP in this game I get parried for over 1600 damage and die in one hit, and I remember how degenerative and stupid it is. I don't mind getting parried and hornet ringed, stupid me for letting it happen. I really don't like it when someone using an interesting build gets to half HP and pulls out a rapier and phantom pokes for the win though, that poo poo is getting annoying.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:15
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Sven posted:I don't mind getting parried and hornet ringed, stupid me for letting it happen. It would be stupid if I just mashed R1 and got hit, but I was mixing up all my attacks (rolls, R1, R2, charged R2, whatever) and the dude just got lucky after a ton of tries. I'm not sure what else I can do about it other than not attack or use weapons that I don't have and I'm not specced for since I got invaded in PvE.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:21
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Is it possible to A) summon Pale Shade in Farron Keep for the gesture, B) aggro Yuria before Abyss Watchers to get Pale Shade to invade in the Keep and in Irithyll for the set and claws, C) pay for Absolution just before Sulyvahn to make Yuria friendly again in time to continue the quest chain?
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Jun 2, 2016 20:22
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Internet Kraken posted:No. The vast majority of weapons can be parried. Very few moves are actually immune to parry. Jumping attacks can be performed with any weapon but are super slow and easy to avoid so they are hardly a solution. IMO FP fueled weapon arts and fully charged R2s shouldnt be parriable. Theyre already heavily telegraphed, why make them objectively worse than R1 spam? Ive also noticed that the utility of R1s compared to R2s is all over the place. There is almost not incentive to use R2s (and even less fully charged R2s) as there is in any other souls game. Ds1 got that balance juuuuust right for light weapons. Except curved sword R2s. Theyve been crap always Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 20:25
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Alabaster White posted:Is it possible to A) summon Pale Shade in Farron Keep for the gesture, B) aggro Yuria before Abyss Watchers to get Pale Shade to invade in the Keep and in Irithyll for the set and claws, C) pay for Absolution just before Sulyvahn to make Yuria friendly again in time to continue the quest chain? Having just finished my Gesture cheevo, I can at least say that A is possible, since that's where I got it. Dunno about B and C, tho Edit: I was expecting her sign to be up by the boss door. It's actually right by the bonfire, in case you can't find it.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:33
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HaB posted:Having just finished my Gesture cheevo, I can at least say that A is possible, since that's where I got it. Oh, I know that's how you get the gesture, I'm just wondering if it's possible to get the gesture AND the Pale Shade gear AND finish Yuria's questline all in one run. I know Heysel's Proper Bow and Sirris' questline are totally mutually exclusive, though.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:36
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SynthOrange posted:Oh... I found adult crystal lizards. I've been killing their babies? Nooooooo they are described as "ravenous" so maybe they just turn into big monsters when they get hungry. I feel that way sometimes.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:37
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Alabaster White posted:Is it possible to A) summon Pale Shade in Farron Keep for the gesture, B) aggro Yuria before Abyss Watchers to get Pale Shade to invade in the Keep and in Irithyll for the set and claws, C) pay for Absolution just before Sulyvahn to make Yuria friendly again in time to continue the quest chain? Yes, I've done this twice and it worked fine. I've also done B & C again in Irithyll so I can get the Pale Shade set, but I made sure to get absolved asap to make sure nothing breaks.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:41
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Rough Lobster posted:Well first person DS3 looks loving awesome, gotta be a pain in the rear end though. looks like it's time for a new king's field to me
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Jun 2, 2016 20:49
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Parries are perfectly punishable. If somebody fails 13 parries against you and isn't dead yet you're playing badly. A partial parry results in significant stamina drain and half damage. Parry spam means you should be backstabbing them. You can also use unparryable attacks (the spin weapon arts, any jump attacks, two-handed heavy weapons [just R2 with Curved Greatswords], whips, spells, ranged weapons, kukris, firebombs, poop). You can kick them and then R1 with a fast weapon. You can dead angle with many weapons. If you're getting one-shot by Hornet Ring ripostes from anything that isn't a heavy weapon you have too little HP/def for PvP and need to fix that. Basically, play better. A parry spammer is an easy kill. A person mindfully making parry attempts is outplaying you. You need to play differently against somebody with a parry tool out. Source: A couple hundred hours of invading.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:50
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Gearing for PvP and PvE aren't the same and I shouldn't need to keep PvP poo poo in my pocket to avoid being one-shotted by invaders. But I guess it's my fault for using a suboptimal weapon on a casual play through of Lothric Castle.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:55
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Tykero posted:Parries are perfectly punishable. If somebody fails 13 parries against you and isn't dead yet you're playing badly. A partial parry results in significant stamina drain and half damage. Parry spam means you should be backstabbing them. Yeah...no. This might be true if the Caestus didn't exist, but it does, and it has so few recovery frames that you really can't punish it, even with quicker weapons. If they fail the timing they have more than enough time to roll out of the way, or parry again. Hell, even small shield parries are quick enough that this is true if you're using a slower weapon.
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Jun 2, 2016 21:00
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Except curved sword R2s. Theyve been crap always Whoa whoa whoa. Curved sword R2s were amazingly stylish in DS2.
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Jun 2, 2016 21:03
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Caestus parry just recovers WAY too quick. So you have to be very on point with your punishes. Safest thing is kick to R1. Most weapons that will combo. Running R2 works too. They'll think they're going to parry your running R1 and you'll just smack them. But it really is annoying how the game basically rewards you heavily for spamming parry. I had a watchdog invade me and all he was doing was rolling while and trying to parry me when I got close. Then running away to estus. So after five minutes of smacking him around and him running away to estus and him NEVER coming after me, I just turn around and leave. Ok peace, I'll go fight the Crystal Sage then. THEN he finally comes after me when I'm engaged with enemies, but black crystals out after I smack him a couple more times. My God, what a little bitch that guy was. Just fight me goddamnit. Who cares if you lose?
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Jun 2, 2016 21:07
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