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Gammatron 64 posted:I kinda don't care for Yahtzee because he comes off as a smug rear end in a top hat who hates almost everything that isn't a point and click adventure or Portal. He's a pretty smart guy who has some development experience, and when he has the chance to go into detail, he's not a bad critic. The problem is that his work's only popular when he's in full cynical snark mode, so that's where he lives. Zero Punctuation isn't and should not be considered an actual critical piece; at best, it's a vaguely games-flavored take on the same sort of thing as Honest Trailers or Cinema Sins. If a dude writing for PC Gamer or Polygon or what-have-you were to do some of the same things Yahtzee does--like getting really basic facts about the game wrong, openly admitting he quit an hour in, or completely skipping over the multiplayer modes--he'd be raked over the coals by every forum soldier on the English-speaking Internet, including most of you. It's sort of like how the Nostalgia Critic isn't terrible at criticism or analysis, but his money comes from shrieking like a goosed banshee about films' various stupidities, so that's what he spends most of his time on.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:48
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Wanderer posted:He's a pretty smart guy who has some development experience, and when he has the chance to go into detail, he's not a bad critic. The problem is that his work's only popular when he's in full cynical snark mode, so that's where he lives. Zero Punctuation isn't and should not be considered an actual critical piece; at best, it's a vaguely games-flavored take on the same sort of thing as Honest Trailers or Cinema Sins. If a dude writing for PC Gamer or Polygon or what-have-you were to do some of the same things Yahtzee does--like getting really basic facts about the game wrong, openly admitting he quit an hour in, or completely skipping over the multiplayer modes--he'd be raked over the coals by every forum soldier on the English-speaking Internet, including most of you. It's funny you mention Cinema Sins and the Nostalgia Critic because I really dislike those channels too.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:04
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maev posted:The multiplayer is... alright. I'm not sure what they got wrong, I mean it's not terrible but it feels a bit like Republic Commando's multiplayer. Sort of an okayish add on to the great single player that's kind of fun sometimes but it's probably not going to be the next Quake 3 Arena. Awful sound design and lack of interesting weapon mechanics.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:13
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Xenomrph posted:Have you played Wolfenstein: The New Order? Because if not, you absolutely need to play it. The gun play in both New Order and Old Blood was amazing and on par with DO4M. You can dual wield almost everything... assault rifles, auto shotguns.. Great games, highly recommended. Now I need to replay them again.
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Jun 2, 2016 21:07
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Indiana_Krom posted:One normal shot from the gauss gun directly to their center of mass will gib them right through the shield. If there are two or three of them in a group, a siege mode shot will gib them all and everything else in a straight line through them save for a mancubus or baron of hell. GlyphGryph posted:If you haven't tried the manual detonation rockets yet, you really should. Otherwise, use gauss which basically ignores the shield. Oh totally, I've had plenty of good times introducing them to mister gauss gun in my HMP run. This would have been a spectacular solution if I had the gauss gun yet (and more than one grenade etc etc). I've been slowly replaying the game on Ultra Violence. Specifically referring to that catwalk bit in the front half of Argent Facility in my latest "Why are these guys such a headache while at the same time hurting me less times than zombies have slapped me?" As usual, it's more that they are complete assholes rather than an actual threat. And even many "LOL just do X" solutions to them seem to go wonky. Plasma stun shot, throw a grenade behind them for good measure while I'm clear out some stragglers I ran past entirely before. Oh they didn't die, somehow. Like I said before, he didn't even so much as hurt me in that situation. But oh man, these guys so much as existing annoys me more than actually dying to something. Close call on the first Mancubus of UV "Oh that's right, enemies actually hurt now." 75 armor and 125 health down to 17ish health because I need a painful lesson every time an enemy reintroduces itself on UV. It's more cathartic chainsawing these guys just on principle than it is to slice a summoner or baron of hell in half. I'm also wondering if their shields interact with explosives in an odd manner, because in some bored testing I've found (On HMP) it takes twice as many maxed out cluster bomb shotgun grenade shots to break their shield, than it does to put a hell knight in glory kill stagger. And that still didn't even quite kill them, it just broke their shield after 4 direct hit cluster bomb grenade shots while leaving them sorta crispy (and fresh new shield in 2 seconds). A well placed grenade shot that doesn't go wonky (see above "why is a hand grenade directly behind them shrugged off entirely?") will either stagger or outright kill them. But at this point I am convinced their shields have some glitchy "explosion hit the shield first, doesn't hurt the soldier" thing going down. Because you'd figure the splash damage from a cluster bomb, or lock on 3 shot rockets, would do a lot more to them even with that shield up. I don't even trust hand grenades to be guaranteed do the job anymore, due the occasions I toss one and everything near it but them dies because ??? (Works a lot better once you have TWO grenades, though). Could be worse. They could be posing a threat rather than an annoying disruption breaking up the flow of a cool Doom fight when you realize your hand grenade and det rocket still left them perfectly fine. "Hold on, give me a second Mancubuss. I need to point my Siege shot at this fucker instead of you." Section Z fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 22:14
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Plan Z posted:Awful sound design and lack of interesting weapon mechanics. Even the MP-exclusive weapons are all kinda meh. I mean, a three shot burst rifle could probably have some fun twists for single player, but in MP it's just... the same bust rifle every Halo-like game has had since Halo. 
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Jun 2, 2016 22:22
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The shields have fast regen, you need to use something that does high constant damage like the plasma rifle or something (or combo of things) with enough point damage to overcome it in one shot. I am surprised a cluster grenade can take it down at all with that high reload time. The shields are weirdly good at preventing splash damage though GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 22:25
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Do we know whether the gauss gun is actually coded to pierce shields/armored areas more effectively (which, IMO, would be cool and entirely consistent with its concept) or whether it's just its nature as a single high-damage shot that does it?
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Jun 2, 2016 22:30
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http://kotaku.com/how-a-guy-nearly-broke-dooms-snapmap-to-make-a-moba-1780165993 Here's a game designer who designed a Moba in Snapmap. Actually has some interesting things to say about it.
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Jun 2, 2016 22:58
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JerryLee posted:Do we know whether the gauss gun is actually coded to pierce shields/armored areas more effectively (which, IMO, would be cool and entirely consistent with its concept) or whether it's just its nature as a single high-damage shot that does it? It seems to be that the Gauss Gun is just that good, because even shooting them in the foot with a normal shot does the job on HMP. Though "penetration" doesn't seem to actually BYPASS their shields with the ballistic weapons that get it. For example, the Super Shoty and Chaingun can get penetration upgrades. But even with that, it takes two point blank super shotty blasts to simply break the shield without harming the soldier (on HMP). The rotor chaingun can make short work of their shields with the penetration upgrade (Obvious turret would even without it. but, uh... that's a lot of bullets for one soldier). So it could very well be that the penetration upgrades are doing absolutely nothing, and those weapons are simply beefy enough to break through already. Also, for me sometimes plasma rifle primary fire shred their shields (As suggested at times)... And then other times their shield will tank a ton of plasma firepower until stun is off cooldown anyways. I wish I knew why this was going on for me. I seem to get similar mixed results with heat blast. Sometimes it kills them outright, other times it just puts their shield into red/purple status. Those shields are really, REALLY good at soaking explosives either way. "Remote det behind the back is cool, but what about LOCK ON!... Oh it only made their shield red... What the gently caress." I do wish siphon grenades disabled their shields. That would be sweet. Again, all this is mostly taking a look at how durable the shields themselves are and against what. "Bro just detonate behind them" and assorted tricks still matter for trying to kill them ASAP (when it works right  )
Section Z fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 23:05
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Zaa Boogie posted:http://kotaku.com/how-a-guy-nearly-broke-dooms-snapmap-to-make-a-moba-1780165993 The fact that he did this on PS4 is pretty 
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Jun 2, 2016 23:47
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SnapMap seems like something that would be very well received if it was an entirely standalone product for you to do zany stuff with. The disappointment with it all seems to be related to the fact that it was presented as serving the map editing function for a Doom game and it failed utterly at that.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:14
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If I wasn't so lazy I would go make a Mario Party clone in snapmap. Demon Runes are stars. Mini games are various forms of horde and deathmatch modes. Someone go do that.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:21
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i thought getting the mobile siegemode gauss mastery would be tuff but now that i'm going back to scour for secrets and blasting apart demons hither thither and yon, i found it pretty easy and FUN AS HELL, lining up like four or five possessed and just watching the corridor get painted is very very satisfying
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Jun 3, 2016 00:23
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Section Z posted:Shield soldier stuff.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:28
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Zaa Boogie posted:http://kotaku.com/how-a-guy-nearly-broke-dooms-snapmap-to-make-a-moba-1780165993 He actually has a point. SnapMap is no Doom Builder, but it wasn't intended to be. It's more akin to Garry's Mod, but a bit more refined and likable for anything that doesn't involve shootmans directly.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:39
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Anyone played any decent length / gameplay co-op snapmaps?
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Jun 3, 2016 03:58
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widespread posted:He actually has a point. SnapMap is no Doom Builder, but it wasn't intended to be. It's more akin to Garry's Mod, but a bit more refined and likable for anything that doesn't involve shootmans directly. Yeah, and that's the whole problem. Doom 2016 needed Doombuilder (in the sense of "an editor that helps you build cool and intricate Doomy experiences that feel like they belong in the game," not as in "literally replicates DB's function, down to letting you move vertices around") more than it needs Garry's Mod. The extra Garry's Mod functionality would have been a bonus if it didn't interfere with the basic functionality, but it should never have been anyone's primary design goal.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:07
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JerryLee posted:Yeah, and that's the whole problem. Doom 2016 needed Doombuilder (in the sense of "an editor that helps you build cool and intricate Doomy experiences that feel like they belong in the game," not as in "literally replicates DB's function, down to letting you move vertices around") more than it needs Garry's Mod. The extra Garry's Mod functionality would have been a bonus if it didn't interfere with the basic functionality, but it should never have been anyone's primary design goal. Right. I'm not saying I agree with these choices, but they are choices made. That being said, a little extra mapmaking functionality won't kill SnapMap. Like, let us make up to octagons or some poo poo.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:40
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JerryLee posted:SnapMap seems like something that would be very well received if it was an entirely standalone product for you to do zany stuff with. The disappointment with it all seems to be related to the fact that it was presented as serving the map editing function for a Doom game and it failed utterly at that. It would still have the problem of lacking the ability to do incredibly basic poo poo like placing walkways and stuff despite also letting you literally write scripts in the game.
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Jun 3, 2016 09:36
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Is there any way to get around regional matchmaking in this?
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Jun 3, 2016 10:49
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I hope this game will get updates that expand on snapmap's capabilities. Like extra environments like Hell and so on.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:14
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The hell in this game doesn't seem very hellish. Unless doom guy is in the hell employee habitation blocks, and the lakes of fire and brimstone are in another sector. It seems almost industrial.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:31
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Gammatron 64 posted:I hope this game will get updates that expand on snapmap's capabilities. Like extra environments like Hell and so on. To cut a long story short, they have "a whole year" of DLC planned, where all the Snapmap-related content (more content, more modules, more logic) will be free. A first update is coming soon featuring "updates and features on single player, multiplayer, and Snapmap" as well as multiplayer rebalancing, but from the sounds of things the developers are currently decompressing after a hectic development cycle, watching people play the game on Twitch, reading forums and figuring out where to go from here. I went to a Q&A with Marty in Melbourne recently, he hinted that something that Doom modders might be familiar with is coming soon. I'm not sure what to read into that.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:50
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The Kins posted:
Columbine High School
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Jun 3, 2016 14:53
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The Kins posted:To cut a long story short, they have "a whole year" of DLC planned, where all the Snapmap-related content (more content, more modules, more logic) will be free. This is all pretty cool news.
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Jun 3, 2016 15:05
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The Kins posted:The devs talked a little about this on GamesRadar's Twitch today. Skip to 12 minutes for them to get past the incredible complexities of calling someone on Skype. Also, I hope you're not paying attention to the screen, because the guy playing sure isn't! To be fair, he is conducting an interview at the same time... Oh noice  Sockser posted:Columbine High School 
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Jun 3, 2016 15:53
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Sockser posted:Columbine High School 
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Jun 3, 2016 16:10
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My GOTY so far I'm enjoying comparing it to Duke Nukem Forever - another franchise dragged kicking into the 21st century, updating old ideas, keeping gameplay that's gone out of fashion. The difference is DOOM is AWESOME!
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Jun 3, 2016 16:12
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ZoDiAC_ posted:My GOTY so far DNF was awesome in my book, and as we know the company kersploded and just a few guys kept making the game even without a company, until Gearbox brought them in (as Triptych Games). Not really a fair comparison, plus DNF came out the same year as id's Rage, and I actually like DNF better than Rage. But I'm a sucker for cheesy one-liners and well done in-game pinball machines. The Kins posted:The devs talked a little about this on GamesRadar's Twitch today. Skip to 12 minutes for them to get past the incredible complexities of calling someone on Skype. Also, I hope you're not paying attention to the screen, because the guy playing sure isn't! To be fair, he is conducting an interview at the same time... They also touch on the Doomguy story/lore questions we were all talking about for pages. They asked if this Doomguy is the same as the Doom64 guy (I wonder why they didn't just ask if it's classic Doomguy), they said "We can't say, it ruins everything uh, we can't say". Clearly this means there's an epic plot twist coming up, hold onto your hats. Also says "We only give you part A and part C, part B is for you to figure out" etc etc. I think they probably just aren't really looking for a solid continuity, which is fine by me. They also mention fortune cookies and say "mention something quasi-crytic" then go do combat, which is a funny way of describing the story beats. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 16:31
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Zaphod42 posted:It would only take one guy to comment (assuming he was the right guy to notice and make the right comment) but you are ignoring massive amounts of corporate politics if you think it'd be as easy as just saying "oh hey, it should be faster" and having the entire MP team go "oh yeah sure we'll do that right away" You dont need a whole lot of office drama to have an executive just say "No, we are not going for Halo light in MP." Have the MP lead designers play a round or two of quake MP as well. But the real governing factor here is that they wanted halo light because thats what sells on today's market. They need to cash in on the extra expense of having multiplayer in the first place.
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Jun 3, 2016 18:57
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I thought Halo was pretty much dead and not a lot of people play it now?
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Jun 3, 2016 19:02
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:I thought Halo was pretty much dead and not a lot of people play it now? That's correct, COD killed it.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:22
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The main difference between DO4M and DNF is that Doom has a very unified, coherent design philosophy that works incredibly well and knows what it's going for, while DNF was a messed up clusterfuck of two decades worth of different companies, console generations, design fads, and pop culture mashed together into a Frankenstein mess.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:39
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Heavy Metal posted:They also touch on the Doomguy story/lore questions we were all talking about for pages. They asked if this Doomguy is the same as the Doom64 guy (I wonder why they didn't just ask if it's classic Doomguy), they said "We can't say, it ruins everything uh, we can't say". Clearly this means there's an epic plot twist coming up, hold onto your hats. I can't watch this right now so I don't know the context or if these are the exact words, but reading your post it seems like one can parse this in one of at least two ways. "It would ruin everything by spoiling the plot" (probably implying that a single player DLC/sequel is coming up with an ~epic plot twist~) or "It would ruin everything about the awesome fanon that's now out there [because we actually did just mean for doomguy to originally be a space alien from the medieval planet]." Obviously I'm hoping it's the former. (Also obviously, there's the third option that they actually didn't have anything useful to say at all and just needed to make a dodge.)
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Jun 3, 2016 20:49
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It seems really strange to compare DNF to Doom 4. Maybe Doom 3, but 4?
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Jun 3, 2016 20:50
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Mogomra posted:It seems really strange to compare DNF to Doom 4. Maybe Doom 3, but 4? I don't think it's too strange. Both were shooters from established franchises that had incredibly long development cycles that went through multiple iterations through different teams with elements that were either entirely scrapped/recycled into the game's eventual (and perhaps improbable) release. One game actually has a soul, though. The other has dick and poo poo jokes and outdated pop culture references. I don't believe Doom 3 had nearly anything close to the kind of drama that happened behind the scenes as 4 and DNF.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:06
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Mogomra posted:It seems really strange to compare DNF to Doom 4. Maybe Doom 3, but 4? Doom 4 is basically DNF but with one final pass that said "holy poo poo, this is garbage, start over from scratch and do it right this time" and then they did.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:08
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:I thought Halo was pretty much dead and not a lot of people play it now? MysteriousStranger posted:That's correct, COD killed it. Even worse, Trying to turn Halo into COD is what killed it. If they'd stayed true to Halo then they may have continued to sell well to fans and fit a niche that COD doesn't, but instead they abandoned the core of Halo and tried to make it into a lovely COD wannabe, which is a bad idea. They tried to walk some of that back in 5 after 4 but damage was done. It reminds me of Star Wars Galaxies doing pretty good as its own weird thing unlike any other MMO, and then they released the "new game experience" designed to make it play more like WoW, since WoW was so popular. Buuuut it was strictly a shittier WoW, and people who liked WoW already played WoW, so all they did was alienate the people who liked the fact that SWG was NOT WoW and let you do things you couldn't in other MMOs.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:15
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From what I recall, the NGE dropped with no warning, something like weeks after a new expansion too
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Jun 3, 2016 21:59
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