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Eimi posted:I just realized that I read Norra's ability wrong and that she adds an extra dice set to focus and not just changes to focus. I hope those greens are good for PTL, so you can use another astro beyond R2, but hey at least you can take PTL/R2. (The dream would be Predator with Dutch or Shara) Six of the speed 1 and 2 maneuvers are green, including the 2 banks. My money is on one of two possibilities, those being all one and two speed straights/banks being green, and the other being 1 straight, and all the 2s. The more likely is all straights/banks at 1 and 2. ARC-170s are not arc-dodgers and they're not high performance dogfighters, sorry.  They're heavy fighters.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:05
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Strobe posted:Six of the speed 1 and 2 maneuvers are green, including the 2 banks. My money is on one of two possibilities, those being all one and two speed straights/banks being green, and the other being 1 straight, and all the 2s. You are most likely right. On the other hand...the Jumpmaster exists. The question then is PTL + R2 then too much to pay to use her ability? I am totally expecting just straights and banks as green. Eimi fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 00:07
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The auxiliary arc means you shouldn't need to be doing lots of hard turns to PTL anyway. A small base's auxiliary arc is going to be decently hard to dodge reliably at range 1, and much easier to bring to bear on arc-dodging targets. I'm expecting Action economy on the ARC-170 to come from something like Targeting Astromech or R3 Astromech plus Recon Specialist. Or Gunner, if you want to waste a bunch of points to badly simulate a Y-wing. Bring VI, because that poo poo is going to be golden for getting up to PS 9 and telling all those PS 8 Imp Aces to gently caress off.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:12
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So what is the thread approved escalation for XXX? I've figured out the first two rounds but round 3 and 4 at 120 and 150 I'm lost. Also half the league is sick of X wing for now so they're going to be playing Edge of the Empire instead this league. And they're full.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:13
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Strobe posted:The auxiliary arc means you shouldn't need to be doing lots of hard turns to PTL anyway. A small base's auxiliary arc is going to be decently hard to dodge reliably at range 1, and much easier to bring to bear on arc-dodging targets. I suppose! I guess I'm focusing a bit much on getting the 4-5 forward arc shot off. I wonder how the math out in terms of extra dice vs guaranteed crit. Targeting Astro sounds great on Shara though.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:14
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Eimi posted:I suppose! I guess I'm focusing a bit much on getting the 4-5 forward arc shot off. I wonder how the math out in terms of extra dice vs guaranteed crit. Targeting Astro sounds great on Shara though. Advanced Proton Torpedoes and with Recon Specialist and Shara Bey flying shotgun, that's how. Targeting Astromech plus Cool Hand might also actually be worth it in this instance for the merge. Beyond that, I doubt that the hard 2 (potentially hard 1?) is red, so you can still get action economy in other ways.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:17
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No crew slot on the SF? Is Finn considered a system upgrade?
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Jun 3, 2016 00:39
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Otisburg posted:No crew slot on the SF? Is Finn considered a system upgrade? If there was a crew slot, Quickdraw could take Vader and quad-tap for dice rolled plus four crits.
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Jun 3, 2016 00:47
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But ~my canon~
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Jun 3, 2016 00:48
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Otisburg posted:No crew slot on the SF? Is Finn considered a system upgrade? Why would you expect FN-2187 to be 'crew'? Like a person? 
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Jun 3, 2016 00:58
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Finster and I are playing our league game currently, which may turn out to be the longest game of XWing in recorded history. His 5 autoblasters vs my inquisitor and 3 Crack TAPS. Server "brunas's birthday boat" Password SA
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Jun 3, 2016 00:59
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Otisburg posted:No crew slot on the SF? Is Finn considered a system upgrade? Clearly Finn and Poe were operating the TIE/sf in an unsanctioned two man configuration, righteous First Order pilots know to operate one end with their hands and one with their feet.
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Jun 3, 2016 01:06
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It's why it's special forces.
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Jun 3, 2016 01:07
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Strobe posted:Advanced Proton Torpedoes and with Recon Specialist and Shara Bey flying shotgun, that's how. Targeting Astromech plus Cool Hand might also actually be worth it in this instance for the merge. Beyond that, I doubt that the hard 2 (potentially hard 1?) is red, so you can still get action economy in other ways. Look if I'm flying a one agi ship with Advanced Proton, it's Nera with the same build build but Deadeye because she gets a crit with Chimps. 
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Jun 3, 2016 01:10
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Eimi posted:Look if I'm flying a one agi ship with Advanced Proton, it's Nera with the same build build but Deadeye because she gets a crit with Chimps. Nera is PS 5. Norra Wexley can still pull it off at PS 9. Nera with APT, Deadeye, E2 (which takes the slot Chips occupies, so it's one or the other), and Recon Specialist is 37 points. Norra Wexley with APT, Recon Specialist, and Veteran Instincts is 39. EDIT: Targeting Astromech plus the title means that an opening joust k-turn gets you a TL plus focus -> crit and excellent positional advantage for next turn.  If the ARC-170 has a 2k it's going to be a giant pain in the rear end to joust against. I like it. Strobe fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 01:30
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I flew two lists with two T-70 Red Squadron Veterans last night, one with Wes and the other with a Sabine + Conner Net dropping K-Wing. Wes and the K were both pretty mediocre, but the T-70s were golden and won both games almost by themselves. I was running them with Crack Shot, R2 Astromech, Proton Torpedoes and Guidance Chips. The alpha strike followed by the ability to Talon Roll and then do a green two-speed manoeuvre was fantastic. I might consider taking them to regionals if I can work out what to spend the remaining 36 points on. Thoughts?
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Jun 3, 2016 01:48
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How was your Wes built? My playstyle makes him practically mandatory to shut down whatever ace I want dead next turn, but if you're confident you can tangle with aces without him, my vote goes for a hideously offensive specc'd Wedge. Wedge Antilles (29) Predator (3) Proton Torpedoes (4) Guidance Chips (0) Total: 36 Alternately substitute Crack Shot and bring an Astromech of some sort.
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Jun 3, 2016 01:57
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Ten Numb (31) Veteran Instincts (1) "Mangler" Cannon (4) Red Squadron Veteran (26) Crack Shot (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) R2 Astromech (1) Guidance Chips (0) Red Squadron Veteran (26) Crack Shot (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) R2 Astromech (1) Guidance Chips (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder
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Jun 3, 2016 02:01
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Runnin MAD COW DISEASE against overdesigned's 2 U-boat and Kavil list right now.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:08
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Strobe posted:How was your Wes built? My playstyle makes him practically mandatory to shut down whatever ace I want dead next turn, but if you're confident you can tangle with aces without him, my vote goes for a hideously offensive specc'd Wedge. Wes had VI, BB-8, Proton Torps and Guidance Chips. That Wedge looks pretty great, but I'm worried about not getting a decent point bid at PS9.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:18
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Corbeau posted:Ten Numb (31) I totally forgot that Ten Numb was even a thing. This might have some merit.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:19
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Endman posted:Wes had VI, BB-8, Proton Torps and Guidance Chips. My personal Wes is with VI, R3-A2, and IA. At 32 points, you could afford to swap out IA with Torps and Chips and still come in at 36. Wes Jansen (29) Veteran Instincts (1) R3-A2 (2) Proton Torpedoes (4) Guidance Chips (0) Total: 36 EDIT: my favorite Ten Numb build is with Flechette Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, and Guidance Chips. Add VI a 36 point ship.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:20
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While some of the new mechanics seem cool, this new wave is disappointing aesthetically. The TIE/sf is basically just another TIE/fo, the ARC is an ugly ship that looks too pulp scifi to me, the Protectorate straighter is an incredibly bland Star Fox design, and the Shadow Caster looks like some half-assed Star Trek ship.
MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 02:31
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Otisburg posted:No crew slot on the SF? Is Finn considered a system upgrade? He's manning the guns, and too busy to be providing other benefits as a crew member. It's the same reason the Y-Wing doesn't have a crew slot.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:34
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Admiral Joeslop posted:So what is the thread approved escalation for XXX? I've figured out the first two rounds but round 3 and 4 at 120 and 150 I'm lost. Anyone? I've got Wes/Wedge/Luke at 90 points then they're fully kitted out at 120 but it leaves me 22 points. I could give them Protons then figure out a fourth ship at 150? Dash/Jan smeared Kanan Ghost, Ezra shuttle and two naked Z-95s across the map at league. It was close though; triple TLT from the Ghost really hurt Dash. The Z's never had a chance because Dash threw five damage into the both of them with no evades on back to back turns. I got lucky when he deployed Ezra early and I managed to arc dodge the Ghost at Range 1. Put three into Ezra then chased him down and turned back to finish the Ghost. Jan even got two damage through on a two dice primary!
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Jun 3, 2016 02:45
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Now that I'm back from work and not tapping on a phone, here are my completely unsolicited and highly important thoughts on Wave 9. ARC-170 I completely don't give a poo poo about prequel ships. This isn't some "sullying my pure Star Wars experience" because Star Wars is a franchise with as much, if not more, dumb stuff as not-dumb stuff, I just don't particularly find the designs of anything from the prequels to be that great. That said, the K-Wing looks even stupider and somehow it's a really good ship, so from a pure gameplay perspective the ARC could be good...but my initial thought upon seeing it is that Rebels already have one of the most points-efficient ways to stick a chunky brick with a 3-red primary weapon in their lists in the game, does the inclusion of an auxiliary firing arc mean that this thing is going to be worth more in a list than a cheap B-Wing? The B-Wing's dial is pretty bad (not counting things like the HWK because come on) but 5 shields, 3 hull, 3-red, and the ability to take FCS make them some of the most point-efficient jousters in the game. That said, the ARC has a combination of a crew slot and an astromech slot which is something Rebels haven't had until now, and that probably opens up its options considerably. Even a simple R2 Astromech to make its one and two speed maneuvers green could be really loving good, though I assume FFG is aware of this and isn't giving it a hard-1 turn. Rebel astromechs are kind of a mixed bag with a lot of uniques that are good on specific ships in specific builds but some are just garbage and the generics are solid but a little on the conservative end of things (R2 versus Unhinged, for example). Targeting Astromech is a step in the right direction though, and might find more use on a ship whose dial is apparently full of red maneuvers at the upper end. Then there's the R3 which, as Strobe notes, almost certainly has something to do with evades. This could be really great, especially on other ships like X-Wings...or it could be really bad depending on how conditional it is. "Once per round" implies that it doesn't trigger the same way Targeting Astro or K4 do because those don't use the "once per round" qualifier. Is it once per round after you spend a focus/TL? Great! Is it once per round after you take damage ala Red Ace? Mediocre. My guess is it's going to be something like "once per round after an enemy attacks you but before you roll defense, you can take a stress to gain an evade token, can't do it if you're already stressed." Which would be ehhhhh, okay, but ships with Astromech slots don't generally have great green maneuvers. This is all blatant speculation of course, I'm just not confident FFG is going to give Rebels a cheap and easy way to get evades on Y-Wings and X-Wings without some kind of drawback. Vectored Thrusters could be a neat upgrade depending on how much it costs, I'm guessing 1-2 points. Autothrusters are still probably a better option on A-Wings but at least it gives you the ability to give them barrel roll that isn't Expert Handling, barrel roll on a K-fighter could be fun, on a HWK...nah, not worth it. There aren't actually too many small ships in the game that sing out for barrel roll that don't already have it. Is it worth it on an X-Wing over IA and/or Guidance Chips? Depends...people love BB-8, and this would give you more flexibility than being stuck on green maneuvers. I guess it comes down to the cost of the upgrade and how well you can leverage barrel rolling on ships with dials that aren't really tailor-made for arc dodging. The comedy option is to put it on Ello Asty so you can boost or barrel roll out of a Tallon roll...T-roll plus barrel roll almost effectively gives you a white K-turn if you roll back in towards the center-line. The title is kind of interesting and I see why they did it that way, lack of generic pilots is kind of an odd decision...is there something about these that FFG thinks being able to take multiple generics would be too strong? Tail Gunner, ostensibly the upgrade to let you shoot fore and aft together, is Limited anyway so it's not like you could spam double shots all day every day. Also between the TIE/sf guy and this Action torpedo while it's interesting to see them opening up the design space for more out-of-combat combat, I hope they're prudent about how much of that sort of thing they include or it could start getting messy. All in all, this is probably going to be one of those ships where the primary selling point for me largely lies in the upgrades. The ships themselves seem to have interesting abilities but I want to see more of the dial. TIE/sf Speaking of chunky brawlers, the Empire gets a TIE Fighter that's less about being an annoying evade-fiend and more about trading shots. Effectively 3-red primary with 3 hull and 3 shield with 2 green...this puts it on par with the T70. No boost means no autothrusters but it still gets barrel roll since it's a TIE. Oh, and you can forgo having 3-red to make two 2-red shots front and back if you want. The higher HP and dual-shooting nature seems to suggest that the way FFG intends these to be used is flying straight through someone else's ships and taking as many shots as possible along the way, then you get to take potshots with your rear arc on the way out. How the dial shapes up is going to be the biggest factor in how it's used, I'm guessing that it won't have as nimble a dial as the standard TIE/fo, maybe something more in line with the Advanced. Quickdraw is obviously the standout pilot here, not just a potentially ridiculous ability but at PS9 to boot (speaking of which I suppose nuPoe is supposed to be the new Rebel PS9 ace for this "block" since the highest Rebel PS for this wave tops out at 7), but let's talk about the real superstar here which is a Systems upgrade slot. Yeah, Electronic Baffles, do damage and take free shots, but like Some Numbers said even an Accuracy Corrector is pretty gnarly on these things. Why yes, I would like to shoot front and back for two automatic hits each time. This right here is almost certainly why they don't have the Evade action, but being able to barrel roll every turn and still have a guaranteed two hits against everyone except Omega Leader is pretty fuckin solid. That would be respectably good even without the ability to also shoot at someone behind you as well. If these things come cheap enough to stack 4x w/Accuracy Corrector in a list I'm positive that this is a thing people will be trying. Oh and it has a missile slot too. But no missile upgrade in the pack? That's kind of unusual, doesn't FFG generally try to put at least one of each upgrade type a ship can use in an expac? I mean, I don't think people are going to be using the missile slot much but still. Protectorate Starfighter No really, this time Scum are going to get a nimble interceptor, we totally mean it. 3-red, 3-green, 4 hull, no shields, this could be really good if the dial doesn't suck like the Syck's does FFG what in the gently caress. Even the Starviper, as much as I love the fiddly fragile thing, has a lackluster dial which hurts its usefulness. This thing needs to have a good dial or it's going to be heartbreaking. Yeah, a 2-speed T-roll is neat and all but a Starviper has S-loops but that doesn't mean the rest of its dial is worth writing home over. Fenn Rau has a really good pilot ability though, I like how it encourages you to fly really aggressively and lean on his ability plus the title to see you through instead of just arc-dodging around everything. He and Dengar can be in-arc bros together, making life miserable for everyone. Six pilots is interesting, three generic and three named...I wonder why they're switching up how they distribute pilot cards among ships in this wave? Only upgrades on the bar are EPTs and torpedoes Like everyone my lifelong dream is to one day find a way to make Advanced Proton Torpedoes worth using, and while I doubt they ever will be Fenn Rau w/APT, Guidance Chips, and this Fearlessness talent looks like it could be hilarious since his ability adds a die to any attack, not just primary weapons. 6 red dice at range 1, flip three blanks to eyes, get the chip bonus and Fearlessness whatever that does...a huge waste of points but amusing to think about. Also thank god for a Scum ship that doesn't come in purple and vomit-green. Shadow Caster Okay so let's get this out of the way first, dropping a debris field is a huge waste of an upgrade and an action. If I'm going to spend actions dropping poo poo on ships it's going to be a Connor Net or something. Debris fields are the least impactful obstacle type barring Cluster Mines, they don't even prevent ships from attacking. A 1/8 chance of a critical hit and a stress isn't worth the points and the action this thing is going to cost and adding an extra obstacle to the table isn't really going to dramatically shift the course of a game. I'm very disappointed because dropping a permanent terrain fixture could be a neat idea, but debris fields are not the way to go. At best, if the stars align, you can slap it down on a formation of ships for multi-stress action making it one of the only action-drop templates that can affect multiple ships, but that's not something I'd throw it in there for just in case. Better hope you aren't playing against Super Dash! Otherwise a mobile primary arc is interesting? I mean turret ships have existed since the Falcon so a ship that can shoot all around itself is hardly groundbreaking, but it seems like the idea here is that by proper maneuvering and shifting your arc around you get to benefit from the various in-arc effects, so it adds a new wrinkle to maneuvering where you aren't just having to plot your movement but also where to place your arc, and if I'm reading this right you get both your fixed-forward arc and your mobile arc which lets you potentially cover like an entire half-circle which is kind of crazy. Negating autothrusters is a nice bonus too I suppose. My guess is that depending on the dial you're going to see Ketsu + PtL + K4/Dengar or simply whoever + Dengar/K4 to get around the drawback of changing your arc taking an action. I like the IG-88 crew because I'm a fan of brobots breaking out of the dual IGs rut, I've long held that a single IG-2000 is actually a worthwhile inclusion in Scum lists and this seems like a fun way to encourage that sort of thing. Some mention has been made of the Shadow Caster title which is good but did you see what Ketsu's own ability does? At the start of combat if a ship is at R1 and within both your primary and mobile arc, it gets an automatic tractor token. Then with the title you can slap it with another tractor token after attacking it while it's already suffering a 1-green penalty. That is potentially an ugly, ugly thing to do to someone if you have, say, a couple Headhunters with chipped torpedoes on standby waiting to wreck their YT-2400, Aggressor, or Jumpmaster.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:47
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MeinPanzer posted:While some of the new mechanics seem cool, this new wave is disappointing aesthetically. The TIE/sf is basically just another TIE/fo, the ARC is an ugly ship that looks too pulp scifi to me, the Protectorate straighter is an incredibly bland Star Fox design, and the Shadow Caster looks like some half-assed Star Trek ship. How can one post be so wrong?!  ARC is baller imo, and it's about the only prequel ship that actually looks like it belongs in Star Wars. Even roughly fits the future Rebel aesthetic. Shadow Caster looks like a pancake, much like all large ships, so, eh, fairly neutral on that one. TIE is a TIE, I'm happy with it because it's not a derpy version from the EU honestly. Scum ship is nifty looking, though it's weird that it's basically a backwards Syck. tl:dr; people like different stuff
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Jun 3, 2016 02:48
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The Gate posted:How can one post be so wrong?! I know a lot of people like the ARC, but it breaks so many of the principles that make Star Wars ships look great - a neat, clean silhouette; a balanced profile; mostly hard edges and points; and weapons that are proportionate and not particularly prominent. It just looks like the result of someone really trying to create a distinct-looking-but-still-recognizable X-Wing prototype instead of something that might have organically developed into the X-Wing. Also, I guess I just don't like EU/non-film ships that just look like ships from other IPs, as the E-Wing still rubs me the wrong way for looking like it's from Battlestar Galactica.
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Jun 3, 2016 02:59
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loving lol if you think the guns on an X-wing are "not particularly prominent" or that the TIE Fighter's ball cockpit (literally two thirds of the ship by volume) is mostly hard edges and points, or that a Y-wing has a neat, clean silhouette with those exposed wires and paneling, or that the Falcon has a balanced profile with that cockpit jutting out to the side like a fat tumor. None of the actual ships in Star Wars follow any of what you just mentioned.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:05
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I'm so exhausted
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Jun 3, 2016 03:05
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MAD COW DISEASE finally runs its course. The list absolutely lives or dies on the first engagement, and I just couldn't deal damage. I had half a dozen shots that only got 1 hit, even after modifiers. I just couldn't come back. overdesigned wins, 100-34 Anyway, now I can run something different! Strobe, I'll PM you my next week list soon.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:07
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Strobe posted:loving lol if you think the guns on an X-wing are "not particularly prominent" or that the TIE Fighter's ball cockpit (literally two thirds of the ship by volume) is mostly hard edges and points, or that a Y-wing has a neat, clean silhouette with those exposed wires and paneling, or that the Falcon has a balanced profile with that cockpit jutting out to the side like a fat tumor. As far as prequel ships in the films go the 170 is probably the best looking.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:13
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Improbable Lobster posted:As far as prequel ships in the films go the 170 is probably the best looking. Yeah basically, Its the only ship from that era I remotely care about and goddamn am I excited to get into scum this wave.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:14
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I would also be totally okay with a Clone Wars era Y-wing model.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:15
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Strobe posted:I would also be totally okay with a Clone Wars era Y-wing model. Piloted by a veteran of the clone wars. A Rebel Veteran you might say.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:17
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Strobe posted:I would also be totally okay with a Clone Wars era Y-wing model. The Clone Wars Y-Wing is actually pretty awful though, it looks like a Y-Wing wearing a snuggie.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:19
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Well, the 5 autoblaster Ys vs 4 TAPs nonsense is over, here's the final result: 100 - 46 in favor of TAPs, I took some screenshots but I can't figure out how to manage Steam screenshots, so here's a link to the collection: https://steamcommunity.com/id/chrisallen/screenshots/?appid=286160 TAP #2 got rekt in the second to last round, he thought he would bump or his friends would save him, but there was no safety. Only the sweet embrace of death.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:22
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Strobe posted:loving lol if you think the guns on an X-wing are "not particularly prominent" or that the TIE Fighter's ball cockpit (literally two thirds of the ship by volume) is mostly hard edges and points, or that a Y-wing has a neat, clean silhouette with those exposed wires and paneling, or that the Falcon has a balanced profile with that cockpit jutting out to the side like a fat tumor. All of those ships have quite a few of those characteristics, if not all of them; the ARC has none, IMO. Look at the proportion of the guns to its cockpit, or its silhouette head-on. It's a muddled derivative of an X-Wing.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:28
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MeinPanzer posted:Also, I guess I just don't like EU/non-film ships that just look like ships from other IPs, as the E-Wing still rubs me the wrong way for looking like it's from Battlestar Galactica. And the Viper is amazing, and also probably explains why I love the drat E-Wing so much.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:40
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If the R3 Astromech actually generates evade tokens in a non-ridiculous manner, generic E-wing pilots might make a comeback on the strength of two evade tokens per turn plus FCS on a 3 attack/3 agility ship.
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Jun 3, 2016 03:42
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