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sebmojo might also be thinking of Kindle Unlimited, which on the surface seems like a great way for self-pubs to get their stuff out to a wider audience but based on what I've read in the self-pub thread it sounds like a huge racket
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May 20, 2016 22:42
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Getting way off topic here...but KU may sound like a racket, and Amazon runs it in a very shady way, but it pays well enough that you can very easily make a living off your writing. The changes they made last year made it so you only get paid per pages read, and the real risk with it is that they like to change how it works entirely on very short notice. However, right now (and since its inception) you can make a shitload of money on KU writing novels. It's possible that will change in the future, but it hasn't changed yet. Edit: And as for minimum word counts...it's very difficult to set a minimum and hold to it. It's especially difficult to do if you bite off more than you can chew by setting your limit too high. HOWEVER, if you are trying to finish a novel, it's so much easier to finish if you keep yourself moving forward. 5k words per week is honestly something that anyone who realistically wants to finish a novel should be able to do. It's like a dead minimum for making any forward progress at all. When you get slower than that, it starts to feel like a never-ending project. You start to take an entire week off without getting anything done at all. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 04:10 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 04:06
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I think the thing is finding a rate and unit that works for you. Me, I know I can write a chapter (of roughly 4500 words) plus ~500 into the next a week but if I try and write, say, 700 words a day I will fall off before the week is out. You pretty much just kind of have to figure out what works naturally with how you work. If you can say 'I'm gonna write a thousand a day' and you can look at a thousand words and feel accomplished, that's great for you. Me, I just know for a fact that I am gonna get distracted by cat videos for certain at some point and I will lose whole days, but I also know I'm not gonna lose every day, and doing it by chapter, say, means that it's easy for me to see how everything's moving. The biggest trick is figuring out what makes your brain go 'sure let's go with that' to keep you moving, I think.
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May 21, 2016 05:40
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Hello again fiction writing thread. 'Bout to get started on this badboy and hopefully end up with my final major revision and then I can start working on perfecting all the scenes.
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May 26, 2016 04:44
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blue squares posted:Hello again fiction writing thread. 'Bout to get started on this badboy and hopefully end up with my final major revision and then I can start working on perfecting all the scenes. I'm the forgotten cocaine residue on the right
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May 26, 2016 04:48
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blue squares posted:Hello again fiction writing thread. 'Bout to get started on this badboy and hopefully end up with my final major revision and then I can start working on perfecting all the scenes. Awesome. Good luck!
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May 28, 2016 05:06
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newtestleper posted:Awesome. Good luck! This, also. Congrats
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May 29, 2016 01:25
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Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. Thanks in advance for the help!
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May 29, 2016 13:17
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Ziji posted:Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. Join Thunderdome, write stories, we will tell you how bad they are and what you can do to make them less bad. This week is closed for entries, but next week will probably open for entries by, let's say Tuesday?
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May 29, 2016 14:00
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Chairchucker posted:Join Thunderdome, write stories, we will tell you how bad they are and what you can do to make them less bad. This week is closed for entries, but next week will probably open for entries by, let's say Tuesday? I'll check it out for sure, thanks!
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May 29, 2016 14:40
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Ziji posted:Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. As far as dialogue, try combining it with action rather than going from one to the other. Don't have characters stand there talking at each other. Make them do things during their conversation, and describe all of it.
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May 29, 2016 18:53
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everytime i need a character to say something, i have them clip their nails. then if it's going on for a long time their nails get shorter and shorter, raising the tension in the scene so that the reader can relate.
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May 29, 2016 19:38
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crabrock posted:everytime i need a character to say something, i have them clip their nails. then if it's going on for a long time their nails get shorter and shorter, raising the tension in the scene so that the reader can relate.
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May 29, 2016 19:46
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crabrock posted:everytime i need a character to say something, i have them clip their nails. then if it's going on for a long time their nails get shorter and shorter, raising the tension in the scene so that the reader can relate. It also works on a metaphorical leve. Ziji posted:Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. Thunder dome 1/w p.r. is what you need. But growing a story and seeing where it ends up rather than following a rigid outline is fine, it's a personal thing. You just need to be ready to cut your first few hundred words because they are probably waffly crap. And don't view it as wasted time, it's you working out what the story is by writing it. Also try the nails thing crab rock suggests, it shouldn't work but it does!
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May 29, 2016 21:26
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crabrock posted:everytime i need a character to say something, i have them clip their nails. then if it's going on for a long time their nails get shorter and shorter, raising the tension in the scene so that the reader can relate. Is it a bad sign if your characters end the scene with bloody stumps instead of fingers
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May 29, 2016 21:32
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oh i've definitely written some stories that have ended in bloody stumps. ... i have a reputation
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May 29, 2016 22:14
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Real talk though, if you're looking to get published at all then it's a good idea to follow at least a few agents on Twitter. They all seem to love giving out helpful advice, and one piece I've taken to heart is "if your characters spend more time talking about their adventures than having them, your book is bad".
change my name fucked around with this message at 02:14 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 22:24
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change my name posted:Real talk though, if you're looking to get published at all then it's a good idea to follow at least a few agents on Twitter. They all seem to love giving out helpful advice, and one piece I've taken to heart is "if your characters spend more time talking about their adventure than having them, your book is bad". This advice doesn't work for my book, "Getting High With White People".
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May 30, 2016 01:47
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change my name posted:Real talk though, if you're looking to get published at all then it's a good idea to follow at least a few agents on Twitter. They all seem to love giving out helpful advice, and one piece I've taken to heart is "if your characters spend more time talking about their adventures than having them, your book is bad". quote:Speaking of love, one problem that recurs more and more frequently these days, in books and plays and movies, is the inability of people to communicate with the people they love: husbands and wives who can't communicate, children who can't communicate with their parents, and so on. And the characters in these books and plays and so on, and in real life, I might add, spend hours bemoaning the fact that they can't communicate. I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up.
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May 30, 2016 02:16
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I love the nail trimming idea, I never even thought of something like that. I'll definitely check out some literary agents on twitter and what not. Thanks again!
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May 30, 2016 07:18
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Keromaru5 posted:Reminds me of this comment by Tom Lehrer: quote:I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up. I am all about this. One of the things I hate more than anything is how widespread a habit it is for people to manufacture tension by virtue of characters who are unnecessarily paranoid and cagey about their motivations and emotions. I mean, sure, some people are like that in reality, but not everybody. If you're working a teenage cast, I guess it's not really inaccurate (though it's probably annoying as hell and really arduous to read, to be honest) but try, for the love of god, to have at least one sensible person in your goddamn book. Write, I dunno, a book about a high school guidance counselor trying to untangle the hormonal neuroses of teenagers by day while obsessively trying to make contact with life on other worlds or something by night. I'd be down to read that, provided you don't write teenagers like an English professor who's forgotten all joy and misery of youth. Anyway, the point is, if your character talks to excess, at least have it be the result of a distinct part of their personality- maybe they really like to hear themself talk. Maybe they find it really hard to figure out how to say what they're thinking so it takes them a while to get to the point (and in that case, have other characters respond appropriately. Very few people sit on their hands and listen patiently. Trust me on this one). Maybe they babble and repeat themself because they're used to being misunderstood. Unless you have a spectacular mastery of characterization, write anything but the person who talks to literally everyone but the person involved about their problem with/feelings for that person, because it's going to read poorly. (And by extension: please, god, don't have both of your leads be that person. Please.) If you can write neurotic personalities well, you can actually work cagey neurosis to some pretty great ends provided you counterbalance it with somebody with a very different way of approaching things. Have misunderstandings based not in, "why didn't you tell me this? absence of information is really suspicious and the world is ending because I too am a paranoid," but in, "why the hell did you think this was going to be some massive deal? honestly I'm more confused than angry and now I'm kind of worried about you and you seem freaked out by that, what's going on in your head that you built this up to be such a big thing?" tl;dr: The most important thing this goon ever learned about writing well was how to work character dynamics like you would combine colours. Have eye-seering personality clashes. Have mauve and mushroom-grey assholes who are so into themselves that they talk at, but never to each other, and never have a meaningful exchange. Have natural, organic friendships. Have drama-free romances. Pay attention to the people around you and add some goddamn variety to your narrative. Edit: Accidentally snagged myself a free proofreader last night, which is exciting and a little leery all at once. I'm more than halfway through writing the first thing I've ever genuinely wanted to publish for profit, and now I'm just wondering: how much can you reasonably expect to trust someone who doesn't work in the field to provide feedback on your novel while keeping your narrative voice in mind? I'm worried I'm going to end up sifting content critique from structural critique from basic critique of my narrative style, and I'm not going to know which parts to act on. Obviously, it's a little early in the game for me to start fretting about, but I'm really interested to know if anyone has anything to say about this. Finger Wagon fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 20:00
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Finger Wagon posted:how much can you reasonably expect to trust someone who doesn't work in the field to provide feedback on your novel none. they will say "oh i liked it" or if they thought it was bullshit they will say they didn't read it.
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May 31, 2016 20:49
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crabrock posted:none. they will say "oh i liked it" or if they thought it was bullshit they will say they didn't read it. Speaking honestly, I know this guy really well and he a) works as a registered massage therapist and frequently has a ton of downtime (a lot of people are weird about being touched by a dude and want female MTs) to indulge his love of reading and b) is weirdly into being a Respected Teacher/kinda divorced from other people's emotional perspectives just enough to pretty much guarantee that if he reads it, he's going to be utterly blunt about how he feels and probably red marker nitpick my entire manuscript until I have to not talk to him for a week lest I punch him in his smug face. I like him a lot, but boy howdy is he not someone who knows how to spare feelings. Not getting feedback isn't at all what I'm worried about- I've been writing and getting people asking to read my junk for long enough to fully recognize who's going to go "oh i liked it" or "i havent had time to read it yet" at this point. I don't know how valuable his feedback's gonna be, but he sure loves talking too much for me not to get some. (But since my first experience with feedback was my mom reading something I wrote about vampires when I was eleven and going "ew, this is gross" I kinda figure it's all pretty much up-loving-hill from there.)
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May 31, 2016 21:05
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Ask them when they stopped reading, or when they wanted to stop reading.
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May 31, 2016 21:57
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sebmojo posted:Ask them when they stopped reading, or when they wanted to stop reading. "At what point(s) did you stop giving a poo poo/find this painful to continue reading" sounds like an excellent way to sound out weak spots in a book, actually. Even if they can't tell you why in any useful way, you'll know there's an issue to be addressed.
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May 31, 2016 22:21
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edit: pointless self-indulgent complaining removed.
blue squares fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 12:55
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change my name posted:Real talk though, if you're looking to get published at all then it's a good idea to follow at least a few agents on Twitter. Just wanted to say thanks for this advice. I'm not ready to start querying yet, but I saw this and spent an afternoon looking up agents on Twitter and discovered a whole network of agents looking for submissions that match my work-in-progress novel. They have a lot of great advice that already has me thinking about the remaining plot resolution and future steps once I'm "done" writing. With this, I'll be able to pull together a list of who I want to query first and make notes about the specifics of what they're looking for and do my best not to look like an rear end when I send them my manuscript. This was some grade-A advice.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:22
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Ziji posted:Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. From this it sounds like you are struggling with the very basics of story-telling. No worries, pretty much everyone has been there. One of the best things you can do is read a whole bunch of great short stories. If you like sci-fi/fantasy there are tons of online mags you can read for free. If you like more literary stuff, someone else in this thread will come along and recommend something, I'm sure. I also think there are lots of recommendations in the thread already, but it's a huge thread. I'd at least check out the first few pages. The OP also has a lot of great suggestions for the three things you mentioned (plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue), and there are tons of further discussions on those topics in this thread. Poke around a bit and you can probably find a huge amount of info. It sounds like in addition to reading, you need to practice a lot more. If you struggle with dialogue, write more dialogue, etc. Read, think about what you've read. Write, think about what you've written. What's the difference? There is nothing wrong with writing as you go along. The secret to that (not really a secret) is that you must then go back and edit. Ditto with "deleting everything because you don't like it." When you don't like a part of a story, FIX IT. Don't try to learn how to write perfectly on the first draft, learn how to edit yourself. You have too much exposition? Look at it, think, and figure out what you can cut. No big deal that you wrote too much in the first place. Something is hosed up about your plot? figure out what it is, and think about how to fix it.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:59
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Hey, I have a backlog of finished-but-unedited stories I need to, well, edit, but I also have a bunch of fresh ideas for the next story in the series. Should I work on the next one, or drop the ideas and focus on un-loving my shitpile first? Thanks in advance! Love, Screaming Idiot PS, the new story will also, most likely, be a tremendous shitpile.
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Jun 1, 2016 22:37
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Screaming Idiot posted:Hey, I have a backlog of finished-but-unedited stories I need to, well, edit, but I also have a bunch of fresh ideas for the next story in the series. Should I work on the next one, or drop the ideas and focus on un-loving my shitpile first? I'd be inclined to say: edit your shitpile first, write your shitpile sequel second. Editing can be really goddamn handy for catching out dumb things you do while you write, and realizing you do them means you're less likely to the next time around. That means less time editing the same dumb bad habits over and over again, more time agonizing over the new dumb bad habits you're probably forming!
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Jun 1, 2016 22:51
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Finger Wagon posted:I'd be inclined to say: edit your shitpile first, write your shitpile sequel second. Editing can be really goddamn handy for catching out dumb things you do while you write, and realizing you do them means you're less likely to the next time around. That means less time editing the same dumb bad habits over and over again, more time agonizing over the new dumb bad habits you're probably forming! Totally agree. You really discover where you can improve when you review the turd you've already made. Not so much when you just plod on ahead making more turds.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:30
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Thanks for the advice. It'll also give me a chance to ensure a little consistency between the old work and the new, because I'm a loving nerd and I'm the kind of guy who agonizes over little things like that rather than, say, the plot being interesting or exciting. "Yes, we get it, the demon lord wants to rule the universe with his army of mutant cyborgs, bla-bla-bla. Does the hero like sour things or not? On page 314 he says he doesn't like sour things, but on page 567, 759, and 1,987 you explicitly state his favorite soda is tart in flavor! Make up your mind, idiot!"
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Jun 2, 2016 03:36
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Screaming Idiot posted:Thanks for the advice. It'll also give me a chance to ensure a little consistency between the old work and the new, because I'm a loving nerd and I'm the kind of guy who agonizes over little things like that rather than, say, the plot being interesting or exciting. I'd be more curious why your demon lord is drinking soda, and why you felt the need to reiterate that his favourite soda is tart in flavour, honestly. "I, a Demon Lord, enjoy Soulsucker: Code Void, a tart carbonated beverage" x3 pg. 567, 759, 1987
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Jun 2, 2016 03:45
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crabrock posted:none. they will say "oh i liked it" or if they thought it was bullshit they will say they didn't read it. I'm sometimes on an online critic circle thing, and unfortunately most of it boils down to one of the above, drawn out into a 500+ words for bonus karma. One guy on there described reading a load of submissions as 'farming' and I was like, '...ah  '
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Jun 3, 2016 10:41
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Tirranek posted:I'm sometimes on an online critic circle thing, and unfortunately most of it boils down to one of the above, drawn out into a 500+ words for bonus karma. One guy on there described reading a load of submissions as 'farming' and I was like, '...ah Try Critters. It's better than the site you're talking about (more reviews per story, too).
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Jun 3, 2016 11:07
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ravenkult posted:Try Critters. It's better than the site you're talking about (more reviews per story, too). Thanks a lot. I'll check it out!
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Jun 3, 2016 11:58
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Finger Wagon posted:"At what point(s) did you stop giving a poo poo/find this painful to continue reading" sounds like an excellent way to sound out weak spots in a book, actually. Even if they can't tell you why in any useful way, you'll know there's an issue to be addressed. sebmojo posted:Ask them when they stopped reading, or when they wanted to stop reading. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, do NOT respond with "Oh well what you didn't understand is that..." or "You just don't get it, see, here's the ..." What you do is read what they didn't understand, or what they didn't get, and tell YOURSELF, "oh poo poo, that's where I'm failing, I should either work on that more, or love that they're not getting it yet because it's all revealed in just five pages." Line-by-line crits can get really frustrating for this reason... the critic will say, "this doesn't make any sense" and you've got to be sure that's what you meant to do. In my book, (oh come on you knew it was coming) I spend a lot of time developing a character only to kill her off by chapter 4. EVERY person reading line-by-line or chapter-by-chapter asked why the hell did I waste so much time on her if I was going to kill her off. A LOT of them told me not to do that. By chapter 6, she's back in the story. So when people give you feedback, never tell them where they're wrong... they're telling you their opinion. (unless it's grammar/spelling/punctuation). Their opinion is worth more, WAY more, than any review you'll get after publication. You're given the opportunity to see where your plan works or where it breaks. Lastly, try to get feedback from non-writers as much as writers. Writers will read it for the writing, non-writers will read it for the story. But I could be totally wrong. I just happen to have a book that's on top of the New York Times Book Review. I'm using my book as a paperweight to hold the NYT book review down, there's a draft in my garage.
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Jun 3, 2016 13:56
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magnificent7 posted:Good poo poo Yes, all of this. Good poo poo right here. Especially this: quote:Writers will read it for the writing, non-writers will read it for the story. This is one of the big things I've clued into as I've gotten older. My best friend is a musician, and after she took the fretboard of a shattered guitar to the face at a wrestling event (no, that's not a euphemism) and sustained a severe concussion, I learned a whole hell of a lot about how creators consume their medium. She wasn't allowed to listen to music while her brain was recovering because, as a musician, she's incapable of not focusing on and analyzing lyrics and instrumentals. So instead, she listened to audiobooks, which was utterly baffling to me because I couldn't grasp the idea of not analyzing characterization and symbolism and narrative structure. Creators consume works within their field differently than non-creators. Musicians hear music differently than listeners, artists look at art differently than art admirers, and writers read narratives differently than readers. That's why, even if your book or her song is a technical masterpiece, non-creators might go "but I like this sloppy coming-of-age werewolf romance/trite four-chord love song you wrote five years ago better!" It might drive you nuts but you still need to toughen up and take notes, because chances are, you're not writing to an audience purely consisting of other writers. Readers who aren't also writers just read to enjoy. (And you can argue that you do too, but none of us really, truly have an off-switch for being writers. You're never not a writer if you ever are one.) I've been shoving the first chapter of my book (we all knew it was coming, magnificent7, and this is why) at any and every friend who expresses an interest, and while my writing friends might go, "oh, I really love your use of atmosphere" or "goddamn, you always have such a smooth, almost musical flow to your prose, Finger Wagon" it's just as important when my non-writer friend just loving goes: "I really like [your main character] a lot The concept is so cool like for some reason it kinda reminds me of like that saying 'the stories these walls could tell' because hey guess what [YOUR MAIN CHARACTER] KNOWS It was really good!!! I'm looking forward to where this goes Thank you for sharing it with me ; w ; I'm also interested in the relationship between him and his ex if that's explored more My brain of course goes to the worst possible conclusion that like [speculation that makes no sense if you haven't read any of the book]!! That's all stuff I'm speculating of course laughs I hope I get to find out oops I'm so excited to buy this dude Gosh I wonder if he gets headaches" This is really goddamn important because a) no matter how well-written and interesting my main character is in theory, if people don't like him, they're not going to give a poo poo about what happens to him, and b) no matter how interesting my premise is to explore from a writing standpoint, that means absolutely nothing if it's not interesting to read. I know I've hit on something solid because consistently, my non-writing friends have said they like my character, they find his circumstances fascinating, and they want to know more. You can gently caress up a compelling premise and a good character with poor execution, but if you don't have even those to start with, nobody's going to stick around to watch you turn poo poo into gold. Finger Wagon fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 16:51
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So okay, this is pretty unashamedly about TD, so yeah yeah, whatever. What do you do when you just wind up sitting and staring at a blank screen/doc for a while and get essentially nowhere? I guess it's sort of a 'where do your ideas come from??' question but I realize that's silly. So more of a 'what do you do for a bit when you need an idea and nothing comes to mind?' Tried music, a walk or two, that kinda thing. Most of my fails over there have just been garbage with time, but I think this is the first 'gently caress, I literally don't have A Thing' week. Not that I'm giving up yet or anything. All this for some words that will be garbage 'cause I'm still a chump, lol, but w/e. Thanks.
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Jun 3, 2016 18:34
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Open a blank document and start typing random sentences that are just story ideas. Just type any idea that comes into your mind, line break, and type more. It can help once you have a page full of ideas even if most of them are lovely
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Jun 3, 2016 18:39
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