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I, for one am genuinely willing to drive this game into the ground. When I consider the servers shutting down for good I'm sad, but if I was the one who caused it I am completely fine with the idea.
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Jun 3, 2016 19:18
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Orange Red Bull posted:The MMO genre is dying a painful death, Darkfall just recently announced that game is shutting down. No game ever, has come on stronger and better with bigger numbers than its natural peak. Eve will never get bigger than it was at 500k. Darkfall's situation has more to do with the company than the MMO market. Aventurine is a Greek company (HQ in Athens), so they basically can't get any form of short-term lending; that kills many companies, not just MMO ones. IIRC, their employees have been working on little or no salary for quite a while now. (Also, Darkfall is loving awful. Remember, they launched back in 2009, cut their subscription fee in half in 2012, then shut down entirely, then restarted as DF: Unholy Wars.) I don't think the MMO genre is dying -- I think we're just seeing a shift in what's considered an MMO, and the integration of MMO-like features into other game genres -- see The Division, for example, or ARK. e: I think we're also seeing a significant jump in what people consider to be the minimum bar for wasting their time on the computer. Five years ago, if a subscription MMO was on the verge of dying, they could bail themselves out by going F2P; sure, it was the same lovely game, but people were willing to spend time playing lovely games because it was ~FREE~. Today, I think gamers have slightly higher expectations; a free lovely game is still a lovely game. Ironically, that means that the games that have stuck with monthly subs (WoW, Eve, FFXIV) have survived where most of the F2P MMOs have fallen, because they've had more money to work with. ullerrm fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 19:45
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after a certain point, if so much of the game is built with sticks (sov), by extension so is the game itself. build your dreams, wreck theirs, all made possible by paper thin defensibility.
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Jun 3, 2016 19:46
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Orange Red Bull posted:Which makes it funny when nerds be like: Rarrrgh we da best in this dead game EQ/EQ2 are the most hilarious examples of this. Less than 60k subs- people still chestbeating about bads and 'we da best'. EVE will have another sharp drop off after this war is 'over' (i.e. people start moving away). ullerrm posted:e: I think we're also seeing a significant jump in what people consider to be the minimum bar for wasting their time on the computer. Five years ago, if a subscription MMO was on the verge of dying, they could bail themselves out by going F2P; sure, it was the same lovely game, but people were willing to spend time playing lovely games because it was ~FREE~. Today, I think gamers have slightly higher expectations; a free lovely game is still a lovely game. Going F2P is the MMO version of shopping around for a funeral plot. It's coming, they know it's coming, it's best to be prepared. RIP Vanguard- I loved you, you lovely, buggy, hosed up game. Xolve fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 20:03
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YouTuber posted:Didn't Brave Newbies get lit up by PL in March or so which is that huge drop in 2015? Yeah BRAVE/HERO collapsed in March, Pandemic Horde formed in April, with PCU started to dip in June presumably around when BRAVE was ran out of Fountain, and all the changes that had come out pre and post Aegis hit. I don't know what caused the 6k drop in early November as I can't recall anything major happening around then.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:04
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Unfunny Poster posted:Yeah BRAVE/HERO collapsed in March, Pandemic Horde formed in April, with PCU started to dip in June presumably around when BRAVE was ran out of Fountain, and all the changes that had come out pre and post Aegis hit. exactly nothing happened in early Novembner and come on let's be real the uptick this year so far was pure hype and without a willing enemy nothing will change the fact the hype is empty.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:06
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Unfunny Poster posted:I don't know what caused the 6k drop in early November as I can't recall anything major happening around then. Holiday season is usually pretty bad for most MMOs.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:07
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Xolve posted:Holiday season is usually pretty bad for most MMOs. Sure, that would make sense if the drop was in late November due to Thanksgiving etc. However the drop I'm referring to is in early November, which isn't around any major holidays other than Halloween which doesn't really work in the way you're thinking.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:11
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frozenpussy posted:exactly nothing happened in early Novembner I think people really wanted one of the epic wars of old, which were sort of epic and pretty good. EVE just doesn't really seem to provide that much of those anymore, there is some back and forth and then everything quiets up for a while, with 0.0 being filled with renters/pets.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:13
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You literally cannot have one of the "wars of old" with Super Caps being the way they are. Simple as that. How long will it take for CCP to figure that poo poo out?
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Jun 3, 2016 20:14
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I watched your latest nullsec video, usually you try to be unbiased but I like how you couldn't help but throw in a "finally" when talking about our allies leaving.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:14
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You want to see a niche game with a hardcore playerbase and literally 10 devs you should marvel at World War 2 Online (now called Battleground Europe). Game came out in 2001 on an already outdated Unity engine. The facelifts this dev team have done to the game would make Janice Dickens jealous. It is still to this day one of the most intense and fun games I have ever played. It has also been one of the most boring. Like EVE :v
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Jun 3, 2016 20:15
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VideoGames posted:I've actually been away from my EVE capable machine. I am currently sitting in a system right next to null sec and 17 jumps away from the Titan mass grave. When I finally get back to that PC I'm totally going to try to see it! That grid load can be a doozy for non awesome machines.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:16
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dialhforhero posted:You want to see a niche game with a hardcore playerbase and literally 10 devs you should marvel at World War 2 Online (now called Battleground Europe). Game came out in 2001 on an already outdated Unity engine. The facelifts this dev team have done to the game would make Janice Dickens jealous. that sounds pretty baller thanks man im gonna check it out
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Jun 3, 2016 20:33
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WWII Online aka Taxi to Victory
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Jun 3, 2016 20:40
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dead game, so what?
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Jun 3, 2016 20:40
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Landsknecht posted:I think people really wanted one of the epic wars of old, which were sort of epic and pretty good. It's also that there's no more battle lines in Eve with present mechanics -- you don't have borders, you don't have multiple fronts (or even singular ones), you don't have "thrusts," you don't have big conflicts over setpiece structures, you don't have any type of give-and-take or ebb-and-flow. Nullsec space is a nebulous blob with little ripples in it, and hotspots can open anywhere at anytime. The tactic of choice is guerilla harassment of people until they move on, at which point you claim the abandoned space "for morale" and then barely use it yourself -- until it changes hands again. CCP wanted to create a game where little groups had a role. They've largely succeeded at that, looking at the state of Querious at the moment. But in doing so, they've also eliminated most forms of epic war.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:05
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Unfunny Poster posted:Sure, that would make sense if the drop was in late November due to Thanksgiving etc. However the drop I'm referring to is in early November, which isn't around any major holidays other than Halloween which doesn't really work in the way you're thinking. Also, Eve has more Europeans than most and Thanksgiving isn't a thing over here.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:09
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Landsknecht posted:EVE just doesn't really seem to provide that much of those anymore, there is some back and forth and then everything quiets up for a while, with 0.0 being filled with renters/pets. I thought this was common knowledge for some time and I'm happy to see you're coming around
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Jun 3, 2016 21:11
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dialhforhero posted:You want to see a niche game with a hardcore playerbase and literally 10 devs you should marvel at World War 2 Online (now called Battleground Europe). Game came out in 2001 on an already outdated Unity engine. The facelifts this dev team have done to the game would make Janice Dickens jealous. I played that game on and off for years, loved it even though I was terrible at it. I insisted on trying to fly and occasionally managed to win a fight in a D520 but was probably way more useful as a sapper. The emphasis on realistic battle damage and vehicle modeling was basically unmatched at the time and probably still is. Unfortunately the numbers were never enough to truly fill the entire front. If you were around during the early days of the ninja-capping Opels, Fozziesov reminds me a lot of that.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:15
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ullerrm posted:It's also that there's no more battle lines in Eve with present mechanics -- you don't have borders, you don't have multiple fronts (or even singular ones), you don't have "thrusts," you don't have big conflicts over setpiece structures, you don't have any type of give-and-take or ebb-and-flow. Nullsec space is a nebulous blob with little ripples in it, and hotspots can open anywhere at anytime. The tactic of choice is guerilla harassment of people until they move on, at which point you claim the abandoned space "for morale" and then barely use it yourself -- until it changes hands again. The mention of fronts makes me wonder if making only edge territory vulnerable would be good. The risk scales with sov size, as the perimeter expands. Basically if it touches someone else's sov, NPC sov included, that system is subject to vulnerability windows. If you held a region, only the regional gated systems would be vulnerable. Good/ bad?
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Jun 3, 2016 21:22
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frozenpussy posted:The mention of fronts makes me wonder if making only edge territory vulnerable would be good. The risk scales with sov size, as the perimeter expands. I suggested this a couple months ago. If we don't own any space by the time the next expansion drops, it'll probably happen, too. 
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Jun 3, 2016 21:26
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ullerrm posted:It's also that there's no more battle lines in Eve with present mechanics -- you don't have borders, you don't have multiple fronts (or even singular ones), you don't have "thrusts," you don't have big conflicts over setpiece structures, you don't have any type of give-and-take or ebb-and-flow. Nullsec space is a nebulous blob with little ripples in it, and hotspots can open anywhere at anytime. The tactic of choice is guerilla harassment of people until they move on, at which point you claim the abandoned space "for morale" and then barely use it yourself -- until it changes hands again. Well tower supremacy was a particular kind of hell, and it lead to battle lines and fronts and all that, especially with sov4 and those mechanics. I don't know if people got smarter or if hisec was buffed hard, but for a fair while (up to 2010?) people saw nullsec as a gateway to wealth, and something very much worth having
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Jun 3, 2016 21:27
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Landsknecht posted:I don't know if people got smarter or if hisec was buffed hard, but for a fair while (up to 2010?) people saw nullsec as a gateway to wealth, and something very much worth having Greyscale happened. Pretty much just Greyscale.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:43
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Landsknecht posted:Well tower supremacy was a particular kind of hell, and it lead to battle lines and fronts and all that, especially with sov4 and those mechanics. and most recently you could sov grief with noob ships. committing to sov defense is alliance suicide.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:55
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CCP Fozzie is a moron who didn't undedstand what he was doing.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:02
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That Works posted:I'll venture a guess that most logi pilots don't care about killmails. At least I don't and I pretty much only fly logi or ECM. I would attribute that more to the fact that people have to not care about killmails in order to fly logi in the first place. Rather than some coincidence. Still. There's a lack of logi pilots in most fleets so the incentive to fly logi in its current form is obviously out of balance. Edit: And I don't mean those fleets trying for 40% logi. I mean just a basic staff of logi for the fleet. Zephyrine fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 22:02
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:CCP Fozzie is a moron who didn't undedstand what he was doing. Had it not been for the straight up contempt I developed for CCP after they jumped on the world war bee propaganda bandwagon, I would have been on board with tying our fate to defense of our sov. Then again I'm a sov newbee and I'm just a bystander who shows up for pings that interest me.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:12
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frozenpussy posted:Had it not been for the straight up contempt I developed for CCP after they jumped on the world war bee propaganda bandwagon, I would have been on board with tying our fate to defense of our sov. CCP desperately needed a war to sell this game. Summer is a slump, and if they didn't get a boost it's likely that we'd be down to around 15k PCU or worse. EVE is also a heavily PVP game right now, so it's likely that if there's even more of a user slip more people will leave as content dries up, and it'll all fall apart.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:30
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Xolve posted:Greyscale happened. nah don't get me wrong, greyscale was atrocious, but fozzie is a lot worse: fozzie likes the small-gang stuff and has a very poor understanding of both how large-scale alliances work, and how incentives to create even the small-gang stuff he likes should work. greyscale was poo poo too, but he did find a bone every once in a while like redoing industry pretty well. the fact that fozzie is now involved in structures to replace ytterbium and nullabor (who were great) should terrify anyone who is looking forward to the new structures. one of the best things citidel development did was throw out fozziesov for killing them, i am worried it'll make a return
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Jun 3, 2016 22:30
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Bring back pos sov unironically
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Jun 3, 2016 22:34
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jm20 posted:Bring back pos sov unironically I joked about this on EVE-O and got some lukewarm rises out of it.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:35
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CCP is also dead set on getting rid of money moons which is the only thing left worth actually fighting over. Eve is the funnest when you're playing king of the hill. The nerfs to caps and jump fatigue mean that no one group can control half of the hills anymore. If they get rid of the last tangible resource to fight over then lol.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:35
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frozenpussy posted:Had it not been for the straight up contempt I developed for CCP after they jumped on the world war bee propaganda bandwagon, I would have been on board with tying our fate to defense of our sov. Yeah why would a company want to hype up their game and get new subscribers? Capitalist scum.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:36
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:CCP Fozzie is a moron who didn't undedstand what he was doing. my favorite fozzieism is that every time he makes a terrible change he'll defend it later on as a great change with a statistic that is obviously just some random thing he found searching after-the-fact after sifting through dozens of variables until he finds one that points the right way (and clearly wasn't picked ahead of time as a good metric) even just 'hey you dumb fucker your sovwand will only be used on interceptors' took months of beating through his head even though every single person immediately saw that's how it would be done and he refused to listen for ages
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Jun 3, 2016 22:36
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evilweasel posted:nah I doubt any EVE dev will get their comeuppance with the way they like to lie to themselves with statistics.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:36
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YouTuber posted:Yeah why would a company want to hype up their game and get new subscribers? Capitalist scum. I understand why they did it, and one half of the playerbase was balanced by the other half's satisfaction. I could say they made the mistake of meddling in the sandbox but that's a weak argument and I don't care that much. I'm also satisfied with the volleys mittens has launched back at CCP through outside media articles.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:39
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YouTuber posted:Yeah why would a company want to hype up their game and get new subscribers? Capitalist scum. It's not that hype existed, it's that the hype was pretty much "Resub now to join ~the good guys~ and defeat ~those evil bee guys~ once and for all!"
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Jun 3, 2016 22:39
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frozenpussy posted:I understand why they did it, and one half of the playerbase was balanced by the other half's satisfaction. I could say they made the mistake of meddling in the sandbox but that's a weak argument and I don't care that much. nothing is going to top that ibt headline that called eve the world's most boring game
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Jun 3, 2016 22:42
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I'm wondering how they plan to solve money moons. If they really do end up spawning moongoo clouds that have to be mined manually then they will probably have to increase the optimal output of each individual moon to prevent the prices of T2 ships from going up too much Which isn't such a bad idea but fighting over moons generate a lot of content in Eve. A lot of the groups spawning fights over them aren't the kind of groups that I see undocking miners to collect the moongoo
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Jun 3, 2016 22:44
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