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Triskelli posted:Pulling this point out for discussion: Does anyone NOT build unique resource buildings like Trade Goods/Ports/Chapterhouses or whatever? I wonder if you're better served rolling those benefits (+42 Cinnibar/ +6 Artillery XP) into the settlement chain itself instead of wasting a building slot for whatever it is you are going to build anyway. It would certainly speed up the game and get you closer to those awesome endgame units. That sounds awesome, that could work out so as you upgrade the tier of the building it upgrades the tier of the bonus as well. Really slick and makes provinces distinct without micro. I dig that provinces are actually different, much like in Shogun 2. In that campaign getting access to a cool province with a fancy buddhist temple that lets you make unique or stronger units was badass. The limited slots and high cost for stuff (10k for the slayer shrine) seems to be at odds with that. For instance the provinces that give you a 20% discount and bonus to troop quality if you build a special one off buff structure. You really have to know where that is and plan around that being your troop recruiting province to take advantage of it.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:10
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Bad Moon posted:Now I want a Scotsman in Egypt type Vampire in Tilea Lets Play "We go, friends, to end garlic as an institution. To Tilea! Leave no chef alive!"
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Jun 3, 2016 21:12
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So after 500~ turns played across 3 campaigns, I have a few disjointed thoughts: I really wish the stack banners functioned like in Shogun 2, which not only displayed the number of units in the stack but also got torn up to varying degrees if those units were missing a lot of dudes. Just some sort of visual indicator of overall army health. I also liked the agents in Shogun (and especially in FotS) more than here. Agents seemed to have better defined roles and purposes, and their ability trees were simultaneously less complex and open to more meaningful customization. Invocation of... healing zombies... is a great spell. It cannot heal a unit past the point where it started at the beginning of the battle. The exception to this is with single unit monsters, heroes, and lords, who can be healed to full if they begin their battle injured. Just a protip, especially if you're an early campaign Manny with a wounded Varghulf. The colors on some of the units, orcs in particular, look rather muddy. I know it's all grimdark and whatnot, but I'd like it if the reds on these guys really stood out a la Dawn of War. I have not, in this entire time, ever defended a walled settlement. This isn't to say I don't have walls; they're a ubiquitous feature of all my level 3 settlements. It's just that at no point in three campaigns has anyone ever attacked a settlement that had walls. I played a few custom games as a defender just the stave off the feeling of blue balls. Despite all this, I'm having more fun with this TW than any other before it. Making races with meaningful differences in tactics, strategy, and flavor was probably the best decision they ever could have made.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:31
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Triskelli posted:Pulling this point out for discussion: Does anyone NOT build unique resource buildings like Trade Goods/Ports/Chapterhouses or whatever? I wonder if you're better served rolling those benefits (+42 Cinnibar/ +6 Artillery XP) into the settlement chain itself instead of wasting a building slot for whatever it is you are going to build anyway. It would certainly speed up the game and get you closer to those awesome endgame units. I'm still waiting for someone to make a mod that removes recruitment requirements completely.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:36
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So in my Dwarf Campaign I had no problems dealing with the Orcs with my Dwarf bros. After that I decided to help Zhufbar against the VCs, which helped get me an alliance with the Empire who were also at war with them (and who had oddly enough expanded east instead of west, so Marienburg and the starting Orc tribe were still alive and doing well). Chaos showed up, instantly destroyed Kislev, and bee-lined straight for the Empire, while I dealt with a really annoying war with Tilea (Barak Varr was at war with them, asked me to join, and made peace them the turn after, leaving me to deal with 3 full stacks by my lonesome). Very few of the other Elector Counts went to war with Chaos (and neither did Marienburg, who contented themselves with eating Middenburg, Nordheim, and most of Bretonnia. Seriously Marienburg is huge right now.) so the Empire had to face like a dozen stacks and was completely overrun. A handful of Chaos stacks went after one of my Dwarf Holds in the Northern World's Edge Mountains, and after 3-4 siege defenses the garrison was down to like 300 men and the walls were in shambles. The next assault would have easily taken the Hold.... but here comes Balthazar Gelt outta nowhere leading the last Empire field army to break the siege. So I checked, and somehow they were still hanging onto Altdorf despite the fact it was completely surrounded by like 6 Norscan/Chaos armies. At that point I decided I would do everything in my power to save the Empire, as Sigmar did for the Dawi all those years back. My armies reached Altdorf just in the nick of time and have been assisting the garrison in fighting non-stop battles. So many Chaos hordes have broken outside the walls of Altdorf. But now Archaon and his crew have arrived.....
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Jun 3, 2016 21:40
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In my dwarf campaign I just made Templehof my vassal and helped them conquer Sylvania to use as a buffer state between Chaos and the dwarf holds. The problem is that I forgot to dick punch the Templehof primary lord first to settle a gudge. Can I punk my own vassals armies or are the longbeards gonna start grumbling?
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Jun 3, 2016 21:53
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4 half dead chaos stacks, but still enough to kill a garrison, running around my territory just sliiiightly out of loving reach every turn, until eventually they can find and raze a city I can't stop them getting to. With movement bonuses, because there's no way their level 1 agent leaders have campaign movement bonuses. This is utter loving balls.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:07
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How many provinces do you guys have locked down by turn 40 or so? I'm working on my third, but finding it harder and harder to deal with incursions.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:09
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:Except rebellions have become a very interesting mechanic. I had the greenskins get troublingly powerful one game as empire, so I sent a fistful of empire captains over with the -public order talent maxed out. Deployed one in each province, and moved onto another one once rebellion started. Totally what set the Dwarfs up to push the greenskins out of the holds and reclaim them.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:13
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Ilustforponydeath posted:How many provinces do you guys have locked down by turn 40 or so? I'm working on my third, but finding it harder and harder to deal with incursions. Depends on your faction. As Dwarf on VH, I aim for Silver Road plus either Blood River or the Orcish region up north beside Zhufbar around 30 turns, then push the Orcs out of Death Crag (?) by the first Chaos wave. For Empire VH, you can actually survive on Reiksland + Marienburg for a long time (3 full armies, even) as long as you pick the appropriate skills and tailor your army composition for units that punch way above their cost. IMO the Bretonnians aren't worth keeping around for trade since they have a hell of a time conquering each other, and because Estalia eventually conquers their way up. Even then, Empire trade is pitifully bad compared to Dwarfen trade, so the regions are probably worth more in your hands than in an ally's. Conversely, Dwarfs do better with allies since they have the most expensive trade goods in the game, though I wouldn't count on the purple dwarves to your immediate west and Karak Azul in the south as permanent allies since the purps are sitting on a port province and the Azul are surrounded by Greenskins.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:23
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toasterwarrior posted:Depends on your faction. As Dwarf on VH, I aim for Silver Road plus either Blood River or the Orcish region up north beside Zhufbar around 30 turns, then push the Orcs out of Death Crag (?) by the first Chaos wave. For Empire VH, you can actually survive on Reiksland + Marienburg for a long time (3 full armies, even) as long as you pick the appropriate skills and tailor your army composition for units that punch way above their cost. Wow, thanks for the write-up!
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Jun 3, 2016 22:47
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Are there any MUST HAVE heroes i should have in my dwarven armies? I came up with a army composition that works sooo good for me, but there's no room to really take out anyone in exchange for a hero.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:48
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NeurosisHead posted:I had the greenskins get troublingly powerful one game as empire, so I sent a fistful of empire captains over with the -public order talent maxed out. Deployed one in each province, and moved onto another one once rebellion started. Totally what set the Dwarfs up to push the greenskins out of the holds and reclaim them. Yeah, I actually forced a rebellion in Sylvania to use the rebel army as a time buyer against a Waaagh stack and accompanying army. It probably wouldn't have been even a little viable if I needed public order bonuses if they existed. Or maybe it could be modded in and be even more strategic and interesting. Right now though I'm hoping CA is focusing on balance patches.
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Jun 3, 2016 22:53
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Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? There's a lot of situations where I don't know what's best to do like Should my missile units be firing on the opposing missile units or on the melee fights? Should I spread their fire or concentrate it so I can make one unit rout quickly at a time? Should I generally have my general run at their general and fight each other, or should I just have him kill a ton of infantry or whatever? Also I don't usually know what to do against missile cavalry units as far as lie ignoring them or using a unit to just keep them at bay (like a crossbow unit or whatever), especially when I'm the dwarves
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Jun 3, 2016 22:59
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Grondoth posted:I want an army painter When I started a multiplayer campaign there were these paints across the top of the screen and I got excited to paint my dudes hot pink but it turns out they're really just for drawing dicks on the map which is arguably even better but I still want an army painter too
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Jun 3, 2016 23:28
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Stefan Prodan posted:Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? See the reason strategy is hard is that there are no blanket answers. The answer to literally every one of your questions is "depends on the situation". Generally speaking it's good to concentrate missile fire on single units, but sometimes it's not. Generally it's easiest to counter-shoot missile cav with missile infantry, but sometimes it's not. You just have to get a feel for it with experience.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:32
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Can you go into the kinds of factors that would make you change your decision and which way they would change the decision?
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Jun 3, 2016 23:40
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Dongattack posted:Are there any MUST HAVE heroes i should have in my dwarven armies? I came up with a army composition that works sooo good for me, but there's no room to really take out anyone in exchange for a hero. Runesmiths are really good. I don't know how thanes or engineers work in combat, but I suspect engineers would be more useful than thanes due to their buffs to ranged units. Stefan Prodan posted:Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? It depends on who your fighting as and against. Generally for ranged, I've found it better to concentrate fire into melee units as they charge into battle and then switch to the enemies ranged to maximize the damage done to the enemy, but it depends on if your units arc their fire or have to be repositioned. For generals, normally it seems that the only one who can kill the enemy general is your general and it can prevent a lot of damage to your units to tie them up in combat, but if your playing as VC it's not really so important as you can snipe them with magic.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:43
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Dongattack posted:Are there any MUST HAVE heroes i should have in my dwarven armies? I came up with a army composition that works sooo good for me, but there's no room to really take out anyone in exchange for a hero. Engineers are crazy if you run several units of artillery. Runesmiths can be nice for buffing up a melee line. Thanes I found kinda pointless, given they're more or less babby Lords
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Jun 3, 2016 23:44
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Stefan Prodan posted:Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? A lot of that stuff is super situational and can't be plausibly addressed in a guide of reasonable length- i.e. you don't generally target your missile units at "ranged" or "melee" as a hard and fast categorical rule, you target them based on threat level and potential impact. And that can very pretty significantly based not only on their army composition but your own (as well as positioning/circumstances/etc.). For example the missile cavalry- if they do a lot of damage to your army and you don't think you can rout their melee forces in a timely manner then yes you may want to devote resources to killing them/chasing them off because they're a real threat. On the other hand they might also just be an annoyance that tickles your heavily armored dudes and can be safely ignored while you focus your effort on routing their melee core which will get them off the field much faster than engaging them directly. Or, more often, it's somewhat ambiguous and both approaches may work (or not). I know that's not super helpful, but a big part of playing the game is developing and refining your own heuristics- even if its not optimal, find what works for you.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:44
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Stefan Prodan posted:Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? Missiles if you'll win, melee if you've flanked and won't shoot your own guys in the back. Concentrate where possible. If your general will win it's a good idea. Getting bogged down in infantry isn't ideal. Mounted ranged loses to unmounted in terms of range and numbers. Shoot them.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:45
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 Someone has been eating their vitamins 
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Jun 3, 2016 23:45
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LGD posted:A lot of that stuff is super situational and can't be plausibly addressed in a guide of reasonable length- i.e. you don't generally target your missile units at "ranged" or "melee" as a hard and fast categorical rule, you target them based on threat level and potential impact. And that can very pretty significantly based not only on their army composition but your own (as well as positioning/circumstances/etc.). For example the missile cavalry- if they do a lot of damage to your army and you don't think you can rout their melee forces in a timely manner then yes you may want to devote resources to killing them/chasing them off because they're a real threat. On the other hand they might also just be an annoyance that tickles your heavily armored dudes and can be safely ignored while you focus your effort on routing their melee core which will get them off the field much faster than engaging them directly. Or, more often, it's somewhat ambiguous and both approaches may work (or not). I know that's not super helpful, but a big part of playing the game is developing and refining your own heuristics- even if its not optimal, find what works for you. Is the ingame "threat level" pretty good as an assessment or should I make my own judgments?
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Jun 3, 2016 23:47
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Stefan Prodan posted:Is the ingame "threat level" pretty good as an assessment or should I make my own judgments? I mean I haven't examined it rigorously, but I do find its assessments often are in accord with my own- it's probably not a terrible starting point! Making your own judgments is always going to be better though (and you'll learn more even if/when you do gently caress up), and knowing something is a huge threat is not the same thing as knowing how to best deal with it. You obviously don't want to ignore it, but you might be much better off throwing a sacrificial tarpit unit at it and wearing down its morale by loving up the rest of the army you're fighting rather than trying to take it down directly (or taking it down directly by focus firing after you've hosed up the rest of the army). Likewise, its important to recognize the difference between a low threat that can be largely disregarded and a low threat that has the potential to turn into a problem later.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:57
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Bad Moon posted:Now I want a Scotsman in Egypt type Vampire in Tilea Lets Play Actually I think that's almost canon. I cannot for the life of me remember if it's in one of the main 'End times' books or an associated short story, but it has the forces of Chaos attacking Tilea. This causes the secret Vampire Lord whose lived there for centuries going all 'Screw the Masquerade' and openly throwing down against them.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:58
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Threat is ok but it's not as important as in Rome 2 or Attila where in the early game a General unit would be 'ard as gently caress compared to the stuff you were fielding and looked very similar to everything else from a distance
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Jun 4, 2016 00:02
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Dongattack posted:Are there any MUST HAVE heroes i should have in my dwarven armies? I came up with a army composition that works sooo good for me, but there's no room to really take out anyone in exchange for a hero. A Runesmith can spam +armor and +physical resistance in an aoe with short cooldowns forever, they're amazing for bolstering a line. Engineers active and passive abilities provide massive buffs to your artillery and ranged units, once you've gotten used to having one you can never go back. Thanes pretty much blow and should be used a field agents or sent on those annoying quests that make you walk halfway across the map. Dwarves have by far the worst campaign skill agents, unfortunately. You don't have a dedicated assassin hero and will really struggle with enemy agents as a result.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:02
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Stefan Prodan posted:Is the ingame "threat level" pretty good as an assessment or should I make my own judgments? Not really. I think it's pre-set by type of unit, so it's just telling you that the unit is higher tier or whatever for the most part. A high tier infantry unit that's tangled up in your front lines can be a lot less dangerous than an ostensibly less-threatening cavalry unit that's about to flank you. More than in previous Total War games, it really depends on who you're playing as, who you're playing against, and your army composition. It also really depends on the state of the battle. If you're fighting against Vampire Counts then you can win absurd fights if you manage to take out the enemy necromancers, so going all in on killing them might be worth it, but trying to focus fire on an Orc general is usually just buying their massive stack of ranged units time to shoot the poo poo out of you. Sometimes it's better to focus on enemy infantry because once you break through them any ranged units hiding behind them are probably going to spend all of their time running away instead of doing any damage, but if a fight is going to be a drawn out slog then it's another story entirely. You kind of just have to get a feel for what the unit capabilities are. There's been a ton of people complaining about how poo poo slayers are in this thread, for example, and while they're absolutely right that slayers are dog-poo poo against Orcs because their stacks have a ton of ranged units and slayers have no armor, Vampire Counts and Chaos don't get any ranged, and slayers annihilate their most threatening units.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:04
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RentACop posted:Threat is ok but it's not as important as in Rome 2 or Attila where in the early game a General unit would be 'ard as gently caress compared to the stuff you were fielding and looked very similar to everything else from a distance Atilla was the game where any kind of armor plus a shield that wasn't made of cardboard made you super heavy infantry. and now giant man eating trolls are medium threat
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Jun 4, 2016 00:09
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I like that they made fighting wall assaults fun and doable as soon as you get there. It makes cavalry a distinct field battle advantage thing.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:28
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Yeah I guess I just don't know how you go about learning the minutiae and stuff, I just need some really complicated guide that actually does try to address at least the thought process
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Jun 4, 2016 00:30
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Just practise, basically. Play lots. At first you'll mess up often and over time you'll mess up less and then pretty soon you'll have a good feel for what you're doing. Edit: the most basic tip is you want a main line of tough infantry to hold the enemy in place. You then deal damage either with ranged units, or by charging high damage units into the flanks or rear of your enemy. Say you play Dwarfs and start as Thorgrim. Put your warriors and miners in a line in front to bog down enemy infantry. Stick your Quarrellers right behind them (they can shoot over the heads of your warriors). Keep the one unit of Hammerers behind the main line, either on the very left or the very right. Once the enemy is tangled in your front line troops, bring the hammerers around to the side or the back of the melee and charge them in. You can use your ranged to kill enemy ranged, or you can fire into melee. Or you can move them so they have a clear shot into melee and go nuts. Zephro fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 00:40
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Stefan Prodan posted:Can anyone recommend any good like in-battle strategy guides? I wouldn't run my commander anywhere to fight on the front lines unless I speced him in the combat role. They just are too squishy if they go lightning strikes first.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:42
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Stefan Prodan posted:Yeah I guess I just don't know how you go about learning the minutiae and stuff, I just need some really complicated guide that actually does try to address at least the thought process Learning Total War battles is basically an exercise in smashing all your cool action figures together until you figure out what beats what. I'm a huge nerd who's been playing TW games for over a decade and have a pretty good handle on what stats mean and I still have to experiment with new units until I really have a handle on how they work. Just play slowly and pay attention to what's happening really. If you do something dumb and get creamed try not to do that next time. Edit: Case in point, before using and fighting against dog units a bunch of times I would not have guessed how nasty they really are. I'm at the point where when I'm fighting against Vampires I'd rather take on Black Knights with Lances than getting my artillery eaten by loving dogs and bats for the millionth time. madmac fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 00:43
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Big trick is to not play the game on super fast forward.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:44
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Can I actually do something about enemy agents or do they just get to gently caress with me forever?
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Jun 4, 2016 00:47
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The Royal Scrub posted:Can I actually do something about enemy agents or do they just get to gently caress with me forever? Some agents eg witch hunter can be specced as assassins and used to kill other heroes, some can be deployed in a province to reduce enemy agent success chance there, I think others to the same for a stack when they're embedded in it
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Jun 4, 2016 00:50
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The Royal Scrub posted:Can I actually do something about enemy agents or do they just get to gently caress with me forever? Your own agents can assassinate them. Wafflecopper posted:Some agents eg witch hunter can be specced as assassins and used to kill other heroes, some can be deployed in a province to reduce enemy agent success chance there, I think others to the same for a stack when they're embedded in it All agents can assassinate, just some get more upgrades to help it be successful than others.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:50
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The Royal Scrub posted:Can I actually do something about enemy agents or do they just get to gently caress with me forever? Install the enemy agents can no longer attack settlements, attack troops, or kill lords/heros mod. Theres a steam workshop already setup for mods. The hero meta is pretty loving lame. All their spells seem way cooler ways to use them.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:50
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The Royal Scrub posted:Can I actually do something about enemy agents or do they just get to gently caress with me forever? You need a specialized assassin up and running asap or agents will annoy you forever. Unless you're playing Dwarves because hahahaha Dwarf agents blow.
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Jun 4, 2016 00:50
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