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Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

rockopete posted:

Wouldn't these help to slow down invading armies as well? Given how compact VC territory is.

It’s not a sure thing, I tried and tried to confederate that sweet port but they weren't having it until turn 30ish.

It doesn't slow down the Orks who raid you, because they get underground movement, which is not affected by terrain. You, as the VC do not get underground movement. This means you have a harder time moving around your own twisted, corrupted vampiric lands than the invading armies that have no business being in your unholy domain.

It doesn't slow down the Dwarfs that attack you for the same reason.

It does slow down the human factions, which is 1/3 or 1/4 of the threats you face when you include Chaos.

So like, if I'm fighting the dwarves in the east and the empire comes in for a raid from the west, I need about 4 turns to get there with my one army. The dwarves and orks can move through in 2. Vamps should be able to move around their own stuff at least as easily as Dwarves and Orks do, ie no movement penalties.

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Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015

I love you Dr. Zaius



peer posted:

drat, Grimgor figured out the perfect dwarf counter.



Wow, I have never seen an AI army like that.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS
The anti public order cheat mod for AI really makes this game much more interesting. They apparently get a huge boost that helps the AI ignore both the corruption effects and public order detriment. Removing the bonus makes factions less likely to blob into one big confederation (More land=more land to defend.) late game and actually lets you do some neat stuff to help destabilize provinces.

Interestingly enough the AI understands full well when it doesn't have the cheats activated for it. It'll start building public order buildings in each province to try to circumvent further issues instead of just stacking more buildings to buff their economy. So it really does feel like an unfair cheat in their favor.

Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015

I love you Dr. Zaius



Rakthar posted:

It doesn't slow down the Orks who raid you, because they get underground movement, which is not affected by terrain. You, as the VC do not get underground movement. This means you have a harder time moving around your own twisted, corrupted vampiric lands than the invading armies that have no business being in your unholy domain.

It doesn't slow down the Dwarfs that attack you for the same reason.

It does slow down the human factions, which is 1/3 or 1/4 of the threats you face when you include Chaos.

So like, if I'm fighting the dwarves in the east and the empire comes in for a raid from the west, I need about 4 turns to get there with my one army. The dwarves and orks can move through in 2. Vamps should be able to move around their own stuff at least as easily as Dwarves and Orks do, ie no movement penalties.

Yeah, underground movement is a huge advantage of the orcs and dwarfs that is often overlooked.

edit:

Archonex posted:

The anti public order cheat mod for AI really makes this game much more interesting. They apparently get a huge boost to it that helps the AI ignore both the corruption effects and public order detriment. Removing the bonus makes factions less likely to blob into one big confederation (More land=more land to defend.) late game and actually lets you do some neat stuff to help destabilize provinces.

Stuff like this sounds great in theory, but I'm hesitant to add mods that make the game easier for me (like the 'no enemy agent actions' one that is mentioned a lot).

KnoxZone
Jan 27, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
I have never completed a Long Campaign in a Total War game more than once. I am now midway into a VC campaign that once completed will give me my SIXTH victory (one of each other faction except Empire which I have done twice).

Game is good.

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007

Am I correct in feeling that if you lose a single battle with Archaon as Chaos, you're knocked down to the bottom of the tech tree and it's basically game over? :confused:

Since your hero is your "town", and if he is wounded and comes back, all the "buildings" are gone, you're back at square one if you lose even once.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Now I have a vague idea how to play this game I restarted my dwarf campaign on higher difficulty.

In what is definitely an excellent and strategically-sound decision I'm ignoring the greenskins for now and attacking Zhufbar. I wanted Grom Peak pretty much from the start last time, now I'm taking it.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011
Something I think would be a good OP addition would be mentioning getting LLS.
Imo, Kholek is the best start for chaos because Archaon and Signal are stupid quick to get, while Kholek takes years since you need a tier 4 building.
Gelt is the best start as Empire because A) any of the northern or eastern humans will soon get their asses kicked hard enough to want confederation.
B) The tier 5 building to get Gelt gets you better/more wizards, the worst Heroes of the empire.

An earlier poster mentioned unlocking Mannfred in 10 turns vs me completing a VC campaign without getting Heinrich.

No clue about Orcs, but iirc dwarves require getting the Slayer building which is the last building you'll want to get with how Slayers are currently.
I really think Slayers should have been a hero option, or at least legendary Slayers.

Re:Chaos
Remember that you can buy further up the tech tree without researching the branches you've unlocked already.

Re: VC and trade.
If you beat up the other vampires and/or manage to go raid the northern Goblins before the dwarves kill them, you will get enough favour to trade with a few human factions. And if you raid the Bloody Spears you can probably get trade with Dwarves.

Re: faction difficulty
I really believe it's a personal taste thing.
Dwarves are pretty easy for battles, just need quarrelers, artillery and a line of whatever tough dudes keeping the enemy at bay. But kind of a dangerous slog before you put Grimgor in check.

Orcs are constant fighting with not a care in the world besides getting settlements up to fund your favourite units.

Chaos is constant fighting without city management but a weird political focus on the tribes that's mostly combat oriented instead of trade.

Empire is a weird political intrigue and trade negotiations simulator with the bonus of starting with your late game infantry. How you battle is much more up in the air than other factions since all your units are great at their job.

Vampire Counts is a slow start and kind of goes where you want it. You can be a pseudo empire and use politicking, or you can go chaos style and raise the world because no one likes you anyway. Also an easy battle style since you have no ranged units.

On another note, finally got to exploring France and noticed the "impenetrable forest" hyyyyyype.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

drat Dirty Ape posted:


Stuff like this sounds great in theory, but I'm hesitant to add mods that make the game easier for me (like the 'no enemy agent actions' one that is mentioned a lot).

No enemy agents isn't really that good for gameplay. Keep in mind that the reason why agents are such a pain is that the AI is built so that they'll intensively micro them every turn to pull off an action. Even if it fails. Couple that with the bonuses they get to cash and other stuff and they can afford to use an agent every turn. Optimally they'd use them like humans do and not just spam actions to power level them. This means that by the mid game they typically have a few agents that just loving wreck stuff. Hell, they even do more advanced tricks like having them disperse from an army and raid prior to sieging it if it has walls.

Meanwhile most players won't just rush an army or settlement to damage buildings. Which is part of why they're such a pain. They tend to get a level advantage on you that leads to you not able to assassinate them and them just chasing your army everywhere to spam actions. Removing some of the bonuses helps to fix this. Like making it so that priest type heroes have to actually spend time in their home provinces purging corruption. I'd actually recommend not getting it and instead focus on the underlying cause.

The corruption and public order mod though seems to be legit. The AI is pretty clearly designed to work as if it doesn't have benefits on that front. Hell, if anything Kislev actually lasted up until Archaon showed up in the last few games i've had simply because they had prepared for the arrival of Chaos by having public order buildings set up. Which meant that they only had to deal with doom stacks instead of rebels in their off time when they had to rebuild.


I'd also recommend the better event and trait triggers mods. It changes and fixes up the event system so that things make more sense. It does turn Sigvald into a hysterical corruption machine though. Mid game Sigvald can add like 6% corruption on to a province per turn. Though that's kind of his thing, aside from being a melee monster. Couple that with the mod that fixes event and trait triggers (IE: The guy who got Grimgor with a trade bonus.) and he can do some crazy poo poo on the strategic map.

IE: If you have a hero that constantly raids and sacks they'll start getting traits that would logically come if your character was raiding ___ faction. Including whether or not they are doing it to their own side. Right now both the event system and trait trigger system are kind of randomized. Adding in a formalized system like that means that games actually get kind of even more different each new start since how factions end up playing in their corner of the world leads to heroes with different traits.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 5, 2016

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

wiegieman posted:

All agents are combat badasses. It's one of the best parts of this game.

Banshees are fairly garbage except for locking down surplus non-superkilly enemy units, but that's okay because they are strategic layer gigantic assholes.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Banshees are fairly garbage except for locking down surplus non-superkilly enemy units, but that's okay because they are strategic layer gigantic assholes.

Banshees are actually really goddamn good in combat if you know what's so special about them. Otherwise they suck hard.

They have the ethereal trait and do magical damage. Typically most stuff with the latter is a glass cannon unless it's a lord. Tack on the ethereal trait and they instantly reduce all physical damage against them by 75% by default.

Give one a 10% to 20% ward save item or a physical resistance item and they can literally tank down entire units on their own by virtue of being absolutely loving unkillable.

They also are great assassins. I completely blunted an entire chaos invasion just by sending a horde of them up north along with a few wight kings to damage stacks that were sieging.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 5, 2016

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

Archonex posted:

No enemy agents isn't really that good for gameplay. Keep in mind that the reason why agents are such a pain is that the AI is built so that they'll intensively micro them every turn to pull off an action. Even if it fails. Couple that with the bonuses they get to cash and other stuff and they can afford to use an agent every turn. Optimally they'd use them like humans do and not just spam actions to power level them. This means that by the mid game they typically have a few agents that just loving wreck stuff. Hell, they even do more advanced tricks like having them disperse from an army and raid prior to sieging it if it has walls.

Meanwhile most players won't just rush an army or settlement to damage buildings. Which is part of why they're such a pain. They tend to get a level advantage on you that leads to you not able to assassinate them and them just chasing your army everywhere to spam actions. I'd actually recommend not getting it.

If the way the AI uses agents is weird and not at all how the player uses them, then why is it detrimental to remove them? Like I don't have strong feelings on it either way but the statements in this section seem contradictory to themselves. It goes into great pains to describe the nuisance of AI agents, then advocates against removing them. Just seems odd.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Rakthar posted:

If the way the AI uses agents is weird and not at all how the player uses them, then why is it detrimental to remove them? Like I don't have strong feelings on it either way but the statements in this section seem contradictory to themselves. It goes into great pains to describe the nuisance of AI agents, then advocates against removing them. Just seems odd.

The reason they're such a pain in the rear end is that other actions the AI would normally have to take are invalidated due to the bonuses they receive. The AI will cheerfully spend time loving other factions over with heroes that would otherwise have to be used countering the effects of things like public order and corruption for instance.

Stripping that out means that they actually have to get closer to using them the way they're intended. Which they seem perfectly capable of doing. The main problem itself from what i've seen doesn't seem to be that they're used unfairly. Though it is an issue. It's that they aren't needed for all the minutiae that a player needs them for. Evening out the playing field helps fix that.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 5, 2016

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

The issue is that you, the player, have to paint the map. Agents basically slow down conquest. They impede armies, they harass cities, they take time away from fighting, they make it harder to prosecute the conquest that you as the player have to do if you are trying to win. Remember, none of the other factions or AI or anyone gives a poo poo. You are playing a videogame to win, a videogame in which you start tiny with like 1 province and have to conquer a bunch of your neighbors. Your neighbors aren't trying to do anything other than slow you down and screw with you, which they oblige.

There are just too many agents, too many irrelevant skills to level up, too many positioning issues where I not only chase enemy armies but agents too, too many caps on agents (3 of each, why not let me do 9 of any kind I want, fuuuck), and too many overall limits to make it fun. If agents didn't cost maintenance, if actions didn't cost money, if the stuff could be automated, if you didn't have to deal with 10:1 odds, if the agents were distinct and interesting...

I think when you reach a certain number of band aids to make a system work you should consider that it sucks and doesn't help the game. I really like the implementation of heroes in fights - that owns. It doesn't require the boring agent map clickspam though.

I think removing agents is a valid sidegrade to gameplay much like the conquer anywhere mod. Incidentally you can probably guess which two mods I'll try first.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Banshees are fairly garbage except for locking down surplus non-superkilly enemy units, but that's okay because they are strategic layer gigantic assholes.

They're still fairly good as lord and monster killers depending on if they have magic damage.

In other news, I had several assaults like this as Empire last night.

Yes, that's me being able to assault a walled city without a siege unit built, the wall is at 100%hp.
No, I have no clue what causes it.

A couple other notes.
If a vassal declares war on you, you still get vision of their units and territory, even when they confederate into another faction, somehow.

And in that Empire campaign I've had several factions with Neutral attitudes towards me declare war on me. Not sure what it's about but I've removed one stunty and taken half of Bretonnia without instigating war once.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

Nasgate posted:

Yes, that's me being able to assault a walled city without a siege unit built, the wall is at 100%hp.
No, I have no clue what causes it.

You have a siege engine in the stack. That lets you click attack on city settlements without waiting to build the siege equipment.

Sadly gate breakers like trolls, crypt horrors, warbosses etc don't give the same effect so you do have to wait for stuff to get built even if you knock it down with trolls anyway.

Party In My Diapee
Jan 24, 2014
Why don't i get the birdmonster as my general when i play chaos :mad:

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Back To 99 posted:

Why don't i get the birdmonster as my general when i play chaos :mad:

The Empire's hoovering up all the catbird reserves.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Rakthar posted:

The issue is that you, the player, have to paint the map. Agents basically slow down conquest. They impede armies, they harass cities, they take time away from fighting, they make it harder to prosecute the conquest that you as the player have to do if you are trying to win. Remember, none of the other factions or AI or anyone gives a poo poo. You are playing a videogame to win, a videogame in which you start tiny with like 1 province and have to conquer a bunch of your neighbors. Your neighbors aren't trying to do anything other than slow you down and screw with you, which they oblige.

That's...What agents are supposed to do, though? Your complaint is literally that agents exist as a strategic tactic different from "smash mans into other mans until the other guy falls down". I mean if that's all you want out of the game then cool.

Also the AI is definitely playing to paint the map in this game too. It's part of what makes it so much more interesting than a game like Rome 2. Just try telling Chaos that no, dude, you're just supposed to chill in Kislev forever. Let's make peace, okay?

quote:

There are just too many agents, too many irrelevant skills to level up, too many positioning issues where I not only chase enemy armies but agents too, too many caps on agents (3 of each, why not let me do 9 of any kind I want, fuuuck), and too many overall limits to make it fun. If agents didn't cost maintenance, if actions didn't cost money, if the stuff could be automated, if you didn't have to deal with 10:1 odds, if the agents were distinct and interesting...

I think when you reach a certain number of band aids to make a system work you should consider that it sucks and doesn't help the game. I really like the implementation of heroes in fights - that owns. It doesn't require the boring agent map clickspam though.

I think removing agents is a valid sidegrade to gameplay much like the conquer anywhere mod. Incidentally you can probably guess which two mods I'll try first.

I never said anything about all those "band aids" you mentioned. You're literally making stuff up. What the gently caress. :stare:

Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jun 5, 2016

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Nasgate posted:

Something I think would be a good OP addition would be mentioning getting LLS.
Imo, Kholek is the best start for chaos because Archaon and Signal are stupid quick to get, while Kholek takes years since you need a tier 4 building.
Gelt is the best start as Empire because A) any of the northern or eastern humans will soon get their asses kicked hard enough to want confederation.
B) The tier 5 building to get Gelt gets you better/more wizards, the worst Heroes of the empire.

The Light Wizard is actually pretty boss though. His net allows your artillery and handgunners more time to fill annoying cavalry/undead with lead and his buffs make regular swordsmen chew through higher tier infantry.

Only bad spell may be the vortex and starting spell but that has more to do with how bad direct damage spells are at the moment.

Luminous Cow
Nov 2, 2007

Well you know there should be no law
on people that want to smoke a little dope.
Well you know it's good for your head
And it relax your body don't you know.

:420:

Rakthar posted:

Sadly gate breakers like trolls, crypt horrors, warbosses etc don't give the same effect so you do have to wait for stuff to get built even if you knock it down with trolls anyway.

I really want this modded in. When I played as vamps I just built a ram and then used my monsters to smash gates down and my flyers to wreck everything.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Luminous Cow posted:

I really want this modded in. When I played as vamps I just built a ram and then used my monsters to smash gates down and my flyers to wreck everything.

I had a Sylvanian Air Force with one zombie unit (or zero for an achievement fight) that had to mill around building a ram before the Volkswagen sized bats could flap over the walls and eat everyone.

madmac
Jun 22, 2010

quote:

Something I think would be a good OP addition would be mentioning getting LLS.
Imo, Kholek is the best start for chaos because Archaon and Signal are stupid quick to get, while Kholek takes years since you need a tier 4 building.
Gelt is the best start as Empire because A) any of the northern or eastern humans will soon get their asses kicked hard enough to want confederation.
B) The tier 5 building to get Gelt gets you better/more wizards, the worst Heroes of the empire.

An earlier poster mentioned unlocking Mannfred in 10 turns vs me completing a VC campaign without getting Heinrich.

No clue about Orcs, but iirc dwarves require getting the Slayer building which is the last building you'll want to get with how Slayers are currently.
I really think Slayers should have been a hero option, or at least legendary Slayers.

Basically, if you want 2 LL it's almost always faster to start with the secondary Lord.

Vampires

To Unlock Mannfred, you have to claim Western Sylvania, ie The first loving thing you do every time you play VC

To unlock Kemmler you have to build a T4 building that unlocks Necromancers, your worst hero type.

Empire

To unlock Franz you have to confederate once.

To unlock Gelt you have to build a T4 building that unlocks mages and costs like 10000 gp.

Dwarves

To unlock Thorgrim you have to clear any 8 grudges.

To unlock Ungrim you have to own Slayer Keep, way up in the north under the control of a powerful dwarf faction that generally won't confederate for a while.

Orcs

To unlock Grimgor you have to slaughter captives10 times

To unlock Azhag you have to build a T4 Shaman Building

Chaos

To unlock Archaeon you have to either kill or sacrifice captives 10 times, I forget which.

To unlock Kholek you have to build a T4 building chain you're in no hurry to get.

To unlock Sigvald you have to play the Chaos campaign for like 15 minutes.

It's so obviously lopsided that I almost think it's deliberate. The Faction leaders are by and large, easier starts, with better starting armies and campaign bonuses, so possibly the easy unlocks are your rewards for choosing the harder start for yourself by playing clearly weaker choices like Kemmler, Gelt, or Azhag.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

Danann posted:

The Light Wizard is actually pretty boss though. His net allows your artillery and handgunners more time to fill annoying cavalry/undead with lead and his buffs make regular swordsmen chew through higher tier infantry.

Only bad spell may be the vortex and starting spell but that has more to do with how bad direct damage spells are at the moment.

Shem's Burning Gaze is actually really, really good. You can rack up hundreds of kills with the Light Wizard firing that spell into mobs of enemies.

Ayn Marx
Dec 21, 2012

I see some people mention they play in very hard. How does that work? After a few successful games in normal and hard, I gave the dwarves a try in very hard and I can barely field a stack to play whack a mole with a endless orc horde. Then end up dead eventually and game's up.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004

It's also really silly that the Varg and Skaeling are, by far, a more persistent and dangerous threat than the entirety of Chaos as a faction. I mean honestly, those two fuckers have seven or eight death stacks EACH roaming around at any time. Thanks to how the AI works you will never catch them unless you've got an army of agents to spam at them in the desperate hope of one of them not loving up for once, and even when you do finally get them to fight you their entire army is just missile cavalry that will kite you until you quit in frustration. On top of that, their home is attrition central, meaning you're pretty much always forced to use raiding stance and thus slowly trudge across it while fending off instant doomstack #20937290387429374029374029374972093749827349867 that they're hurling at your face YET AGAIN...

tl;dr: gently caress the Varg, gently caress the Skaeling, gently caress whoever thought that poo poo was fun. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't getting endless free stacks while being nearly completely safe from all retribution. If they had their number of stacks limited to, say, two armies at any one time they'd be good enough, but god dammit I just counted eight full stacks roaming around Nordland. That's eight loving stacks of mostly missile cav that will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER die because they cannot be caught outside of the occasional RNG fluke.

Fans
Jun 27, 2013

A reptile dysfunction
The key to beating missile cav is to just bring regular missile troops. Crossbows absolutely eat missile cav alive.

If you're Vampire's your hosed.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.
I downloaded the agents mod to see what he did and he basically just reduces the AI budget from 100 to 0. I tried it at 10 or 20 and it seems like a decent compromise. They don't spam it but you'll get them every few turns.

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009

drat Dirty Ape posted:

Always be fighting, especially in the north. I took another goon's advice and awakened tribes and then immediately attacked them and subjugated them the next turn. The good thing is that then they won't kill each other. The bad news is that they are pretty retarded and will constantly send their armies to the south to die while the barbarians or dwarfs next door destroy them and wipe them out of the game. I started several chaos campaigns and was never able to save the 'beornling's camp' faction near where you start unless I basically camped out there forever, which was and is a bad idea so don't worry about losing it.


My approach to the north was similar but differed from yours in a few important ways. Goal #1 was to completely cleanse the north in my campaign. There are basically two valleys running east-west through the north. I split off a second horde relatively early and spent the first part of the game sacking then razing EVERY settlement in the north except one: whatever settlement you decide to awaken a tribe in.

That settlement should be west of the dwarves that you'll wipe out early on and in the northern of the two valleys. The logic behind that is to avoid putting the awakened tribe anywhere near the passes to Kislev, otherwise the AI will stupidly decide to go on suicide raids and invaders will wipe out your new ally rather quickly. Instead, the new tribe will go around hoovering up razed settlements and gaining strength. Invaders from the south will turn around after a few turns of chaos corruption decimates their armies (at least that seemed pretty consistent on normal difficulty). Wipe out Skaelling and Varg and your ally will take over the north and actually be able to hold it.

In the meantime, sacking and razing all those settlements will give your two armies tons of experience and growth and you'll have a huge surplus of favor to use when you push south.

Reik
Mar 8, 2004
I feel like Slayers are pretty bad right now, but how does Ungrim measure up to Thorgrim as starting Legendary Lord?

Fans
Jun 27, 2013

A reptile dysfunction
Ungrim is the Dwarven Grimgor who will fight entire armies by themselves and win.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011

madmac posted:

Empire
To unlock Gelt you have to build a T4 building that unlocks mages and costs like 10000 gp.

Actually he requires the t5 after that. Specifically the special one you can only build in your starting province which you probably want for building armies.

Danann posted:

The Light Wizard is actually pretty boss though. His net allows your artillery and handgunners more time to fill annoying cavalry/undead with lead and his buffs make regular swordsmen chew through higher tier infantry.

Only bad spell may be the vortex and starting spell but that has more to do with how bad direct damage spells are at the moment.

Oh yeah, he's good. But you get one for free either from the first quest or from a random event.

Gonkish posted:

It's also really silly that the Varg and Skaeling are, by far, a more persistent and dangerous threat than the entirety of Chaos as a faction. I mean honestly, those two fuckers have seven or eight death stacks EACH roaming around at any time. Thanks to how the AI works you will never catch them unless you've got an army of agents to spam at them in the desperate hope of one of them not loving up for once, and even when you do finally get them to fight you their entire army is just missile cavalry that will kite you until you quit in frustration. On top of that, their home is attrition central, meaning you're pretty much always forced to use raiding stance and thus slowly trudge across it while fending off instant doomstack #20937290387429374029374029374972093749827349867 that they're hurling at your face YET AGAIN...

tl;dr: gently caress the Varg, gently caress the Skaeling, gently caress whoever thought that poo poo was fun. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't getting endless free stacks while being nearly completely safe from all retribution. If they had their number of stacks limited to, say, two armies at any one time they'd be good enough, but god dammit I just counted eight full stacks roaming around Nordland. That's eight loving stacks of mostly missile cav that will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER die because they cannot be caught outside of the occasional RNG fluke.

On the plus side, the tribes never get more than marauders so it's really just easy levels for your troops and great pressure to get easy confederations from northern factions.

Fans posted:

The key to beating missile cav is to just bring regular missile troops. Crossbows absolutely eat missile cav alive.

If you're Vampire's your hosed.

Nah man, vamps have plenty of faster units to run them down, same with Chaos dogs.

Back To 99 posted:

Why don't i get the birdmonster as my general when i play chaos :mad:

There's a mod for this. Iirc it works in campaign too, but don't hold me to it.

Sjonnar
Oct 22, 2011

Nasgate posted:

Yes, that's me being able to assault a walled city without a siege unit built, the wall is at 100%hp.

The hilarious part is that mortar is absolutely loving worthless at knocking down walls or gates, whilst my varghulfs would have a gate down in seconds and my vargheists and terrorgheists can fly onto the walls and kill the dudes there so my skellymans can climb over.

Fans posted:

The key to beating missile cav is to just bring regular missile troops. Crossbows absolutely eat missile cav alive.

If you're Vampire's your hosed.

Actually the necromancer lord that no one ever buys because he sucks tells you the answer to this problem every so often; "Bats and wolves, gather!"

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011

Nasgate posted:

They're still fairly good as lord and monster killers depending on if they have magic damage.

In other news, I had several assaults like this as Empire last night.

Yes, that's me being able to assault a walled city without a siege unit built, the wall is at 100%hp.
No, I have no clue what causes it.

A couple other notes.
If a vassal declares war on you, you still get vision of their units and territory, even when they confederate into another faction, somehow.

And in that Empire campaign I've had several factions with Neutral attitudes towards me declare war on me. Not sure what it's about but I've removed one stunty and taken half of Bretonnia without instigating war once.

I always have artillery so I never knew you couldn't siege a city without it.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

Geisladisk posted:

Am I correct in feeling that if you lose a single battle with Archaon as Chaos, you're knocked down to the bottom of the tech tree and it's basically game over? :confused:

Since your hero is your "town", and if he is wounded and comes back, all the "buildings" are gone, you're back at square one if you lose even once.
Essentially yes - if a horde is wiped out it's a huge setback. Don't lose.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
It hasn't happened yet, but how do I deal with flying enemies as Orcs?

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


Playing as Orcs with the radious units and mod, morale is pretty bad but not as bad as it was earlier apparently. I think halfway between Vanilla's instarouting trolls and boyz and Radious's crossbowmen refusing to withdraw with 4 men left would be the sweet spot for me.

Anyway I got 3 Waaagh armys up and wiped out the dwarves and Karak Azul or whoever the southern dwarves are, in my game they annihilated all the orc tribes barring a single army and had all the territory below Black Crag, had a few tough seiges there, even though radious greatly nerfs wall towers they're still insanely killy.
The one remaining stack of Top Knots proceeded to colonize all the land I'd razed, (pro-tip, burn your enemies to the ground and don't take too much land, it makes defence a complete pain) and I used my hundreds of thousands of gold to make the remaining orcs my vassals, making me the strongest faction in the game.

Then Averland declared war on me, got stomped then confederated, demigryphs are still very dangerous. (pro-tip 2: swamp demigryphs and keep your valuable units away from them) and I finally made good on the declare war/accept money for peace dance me and the vamps had been having and sacked Drakenhof while the other vamp factions swallowed up the rest of the VC territory. I've just paid Chaos 100k to be my military ally and the empire has declared war on me so its soon to be a bad time in Altdorf.

Most of the Radious units are redundant flavours of orcish heavy infantry, basically giving you more solid tier 2 fighters and more versatility in t3. They match up pretty well against the other factions still, with hard hitting but low defence units but are obvs a little OP at the moment since they're the only ones with a big roster update, also because radious updates like a demon its cool to sometimes load your campaign and have a bunch more troop choices to buy.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



After watching from afar as the Dwarves hosed Archaon up real badly, I just won my first TW campaign ever, despite playing since Rome 1. Not even Magnus the Pious matched Karl Franz's efforts. We have now a new, unified Empire, the Vampires are expunged, we are great friends with our neighbors, and we can now turn south to beat back the Greenskins once and for all.

This is a good god drat game. Next up, Dorfs? Vampire Counts? Migratory Vampire Counts?

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010

Enemy agents are extraordinarily irritating and by removing their hostile actions from the game, I have more fun and they have more money to spend on armies that are more entertaining to deal with than constant random % chances to gently caress you over.

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ParanoidInc
Apr 27, 2013

You dun scuffed me for the last time you no-good Zayn boy!
Fun Shoe
I feel so confused reading all the agents complaints because i know by the volume of them they have to be pretty valid but i literally have never had trouble with enemy agents in this game aside from my chaos game, and even that was just a bit irritating rather than debilitating. The worse i've ever had has been like 3 agents following a stack around for 2 or 3 turns until one of my assassins deals with them or i wipe the enemy faction out. Is it just because i'm generally only ever at war with one faction at a time? I find it so easy to make peace in this game i'm usually never at war with a faction for more than 10 turns max. Can't be difficulty unless all yall are playing on legendary

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