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Ben must be nursing a real bad case of whiplash right about now.
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Jun 5, 2016 10:48
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Ben Stein, speechwriter for Nixon, takes the milquetoast GOPe position? I'm shocked.
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Jun 5, 2016 10:52
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idiotsavant posted:The conversation nearly always plays out like this: But, what else can someone be expected to do? Racism is The Worst, so if you get accused of it you're pressured to either say a) "No, I'm not one of them" or b) "Yes, I am a terrible piece of human garbage" and most people aren't going to pick B.
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Jun 5, 2016 11:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM
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Jun 5, 2016 12:00
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Geoff Peterson posted:Is everyone who says "supporting rape and death threats is a bad look" or "don't minimize the harassment campaign your supporters have undertaken or try to justify it with provably false victim blaming" a shill for the monied elite? Or are they just puppets who don't know they're doing their bidding? Can you think of any economic justice people who haven't been tarred by this broad brush? Or is the untainted economic justice advocate (EJW?) a myth, like the losing progressive in the midterm? Concern trolling is where people repeatedly bring up the same (often legitimate!) concerns to shut down discussion on a particular issue. It is valid to be concerned about trans-hating feminists. But if every discussion of feminism gets turned into a discussion of TERFs, that is concern trolling. Concern trolling is often inadvertent and done by well-meaning people, but the effects are the same whether you are legitimately concerned or whether you are trying to shut down the conversation. In this case, for months there has been no discussion of Bernie Sanders' policies that hasn't been derailed into "are Bernie supporters violent/racist/sexist?" Usually by the same small group of posters. So no, being concerned about these things doesn't make you a shill. Just like being concerned about TERFs doesn't make you a shill for the patriarchy.
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Jun 5, 2016 14:14
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:is there a smilie that's the ironicat with more ironicats coming out of it? No, but there's this: 
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Jun 5, 2016 14:49
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Geoff Peterson posted:But I was raised that petty bullshit shall be met with petty bullshit, and I'll be damned if I dishonor my family by letting that slide. I bet you thought this sounded really cool and strong when you posted it
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Jun 5, 2016 15:01
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Business Gorillas posted:I bet you thought this sounded really cool and strong when you posted it As totally a sick a burn this reply is, I would certainly be interested in hearing your response to his counter-examples.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:08
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Just a few more days (weeks) and we can all put aside the petty posturing and unite to Arzy together as we all collectively remember that the next president will set the high court for the next two decades.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:08
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So now there's a "tell all" book coming out about the Clinton White House (again, 16 years later) by a Secret Service agent who says his detail was being posted outside the Oval Office. Oh yeah it's all about how "sickening" the Clintons are. And how much ALL of the Secret Service detested guarding Hillary. So get ready for the right wing-o-sphere to be full of stuff from that book for about a month until nothing comes of it. As you could expect the reporting on it reads like someone took a Nixon biography and ctrl+f, replaced Nixon with Clinton throughout it.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:31
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Crain posted:Oh yeah it's all about how "sickening" the Clintons are. And how much ALL of the Secret Service detested guarding Hillary. She probably wouldn't let them bang hookers on duty.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:58
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Crain posted:So now there's a "tell all" book coming out about the Clinton White House (again, 16 years later) by a Secret Service agent who says his detail was being posted outside the Oval Office. The fact that a Secret Service agent is writing a tell-all book about a president/presidents sound hosed up. Isn't confidentiality supposed to be a given with these guys?
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Jun 5, 2016 16:00
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The Economist has a good article this week about the growing dangers of NK and the insane challenges of addressing them in the current political environment (China has strong incentives to not push hard on Pyongyang because they fear the risk of a collapse). On phone now, but I'll try to elaborate later
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Jun 5, 2016 16:07
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Barbe Rouge posted:The fact that a Secret Service agent is writing a tell-all book about a president/presidents sound hosed up. Isn't confidentiality supposed to be a given with these guys? The arguments bouncing around from my kinfolk is that the Clinton's were just so corrupt/assholeish to the SS that people are coming out of the woodwork to tell stories about them. You know, after a decade and a half has passed. Stuff like Hillary shouting at the agents, not letting them look at her, etc.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:07
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I mean that depends. If they saw someone the american people really should know its another story. For example, Wouldn't you want them to shout from the rooftops if they (and they alone) saw them passing important information to the chinese, for instance? Also, 16 years.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:08
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Crain posted:So now there's a "tell all" book coming out about the Clinton White House (again, 16 years later) by a Secret Service agent who says his detail was being posted outside the Oval Office. Pretty sure that dude already wrote one book along those lines. Is it actually a new one?
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Jun 5, 2016 16:09
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I wish I had something, anything, I could use to get into the right-wing grifting business.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:19
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Kalman posted:Pretty sure that dude already wrote one book along those lines. Is it actually a new one? Dunno, this "new" one is by a guy named Gary J Byrne.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:20
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Antti posted:I wish I had something, anything, I could use to get into the right-wing grifting business. All it really takes is lying your rear end off and doing a bit of groundwork, just look at James O'Keefe.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:25
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:All it really takes is lying your rear end off and doing a bit of groundwork, just look at James O'Keefe. In that case the thing I am missing is a complete lack of scruples.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:29
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Antti posted:In that case the thing I am missing is a complete lack of scruples. Also that dude has to have strong connections somewhere up the line. Considering the vastly illegal stuff he's done and having faced no consequences.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:32
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lol Bob Corker is on This Week claiming that Trump's foreign policy will bring a level of maturity to Washington that Clinton cannot match.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:34
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Sir Tonk posted:lol Bob Corker is on This Week claiming that Trump's foreign policy will bring a level of maturity to Washington that Clinton cannot match. True, in a way. But I guess that's the joke...
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Jun 5, 2016 16:36
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idiotsavant posted:The conversation nearly always plays out like this: Chantilly Say posted:But, what else can someone be expected to do? Racism is The Worst, so if you get accused of it you're pressured to either say a) "No, I'm not one of them" or b) "Yes, I am a terrible piece of human garbage" and most people aren't going to pick B. When someone accuses the person they're arguing with of racism, it's never "hey, you make a good point, but I think the language you used indicates certain unexamined biases, something we all have, and which it might be worth reflecting on in the future" it is 99.9% of the time an attempt to shut down the other party with, "you're racist and everything you say should be ignored or treated with uncharitable suspicion." MattD1zzl3 posted:I mean that depends. If they saw someone the american people really should know its another story. For example, Wouldn't you want them to shout from the rooftops if they (and they alone) saw them passing important information to the chinese, for instance?
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Jun 5, 2016 16:47
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, it's a little crazy to get upset that people vigorously defend themselves from accusations of racism when we have people ITT saying that they don't have to respond to any of MattD1zzl3's arguments, because he said something construed as racist yesterday. Fixed that for you.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:57
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, it's a little crazy to get upset that people vigorously defend themselves from accusations of racism when we have people ITT saying that they don't have to respond to any of MattD1zzl3's arguments, because he said something construed as racist last year. You... you have read Matt's post history in the past few threads, right? If you're going out to bat for someone who you think has been unfairly shut out of the conversation for a single possibly-racist statement, you might want to pick someone other than the proud, open racist. His comment on the Tamir Rice trial wasn't some one-off thing, it was emblematic of everything he's posted about race on SA.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:02
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You're talking to Dead Reckoning, take a wild loving guess why he's defending the racist. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 5, 2016 17:06
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botany posted:You're talking to Dead Reckoning, take a wild loving guess why he's defending the racist. Pretty much. Dead Reckoning holding some absolutely atrocious values is far from shocking. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 5, 2016 17:08
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Darth Walrus posted:You... you have read Matt's post history in the past few threads, right? If you're going out to bat for someone who you think has been unfairly shut out of the conversation for a single possibly-racist statement, you might want to pick someone other than the proud, open racist. I think you'll find people who deny their racism when accused are less helpful to society than people who admit it.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:11
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I think you'll find people who deny their racism when accused are less helpful to society than people who admit it. No, that just means your a freaking racist piece of poo poo.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:13
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And there's the thing--if I go to MDizz and say "hey that was racist," obviously he's not enough of an rear end in a top hat to understand, say yes, and apologize, so nothing gets resolved.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:13
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Okay, this isn't helpful. Ignore the people who say total garbage, try to talk with well meaning people who say racist things. I've seen people change their tune in this forum over the past couple months, it can happen.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:17
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The general good approach there is "hey man, this isn't about you, but what you just said can sound kinda racist from this perspective". But if they're dark enlightened or alt right that won't work.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:17
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Chantilly Say posted:But, what else can someone be expected to do? Racism is The Worst, so if you get accused of it you're pressured to either say a) "No, I'm not one of them" or b) "Yes, I am a terrible piece of human garbage" and most people aren't going to pick B. I mean, that's what the whole thing about the white liberal being the enemy boils down to. Racism is Real Bad. I'm an enlightened liberal guy who's cool with the gays and stuff; I'm not bad like those racist conservatives. So there's no way I can be bad and racist despite being raised and nurtured in our systemically racist society and you're just being hysterical and playing the color card and white people have problems, too blah blah blah. So yeah, you basically have to pick B and deal with it.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:24
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idiotsavant posted:So yeah, you basically have to pick B and deal with it. CommieGIR posted:No, that just means your a freaking racist piece of poo poo. Indeed, sir. i'm not very good at fitting in to your society. Luckily i've got a whole society of my own where i'm happy and doing great. quote:Balkanize
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Jun 5, 2016 17:26
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Chantilly Say posted:But, what else can someone be expected to do? Racism is The Worst, so if you get accused of it you're pressured to either say a) "No, I'm not one of them" or b) "Yes, I am a terrible piece of human garbage" and most people aren't going to pick B. Realize their mistakes and resolve to do better next time. I can acknowledge change is hard, but I don't think it's too much to ask of people considering the alternative.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:28
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there wolf posted:Realize their mistakes and resolve to do better next time. I can acknowledge change is hard, but I don't think it's too much to ask of people considering the alternative. Most people just aren't enough of an rear end in a top hat do do that, unfortunately. It takes a very high degree of conceit to immediately say "yes, what I said was bad and I understand why, and I'm going to keep it in mind in the future."
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Jun 5, 2016 17:33
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Jimbozig posted:Concern trolling is where people repeatedly bring up the same (often legitimate!) concerns to shut down discussion on a particular issue. Doesn't being a priest ordained in the Orthodox Church make you a shill for the Patriarchy?
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Jun 5, 2016 17:33
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Indeed, sir. i'm not very good at fitting in to your society. Luckily i've got a whole society of my own where i'm happy and doing great. I'm glad the KKK is an uplifting environment for you.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The general good approach there is "hey man, this isn't about you, but what you just said can sound kinda racist from this perspective". But if they're dark enlightened or alt right that won't work. It's pretty lame that people have to put out the softest of the soft pedals to tell their purported allies that they're saying messed up poo poo without having said allies blow the gently caress up about it.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:35
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