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How to nicholas from flamu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zgTEHsuVU Offensive smoke. Edit: huh, he suggests DE instead of AFT for american DDs because the arc is so lazy. I can see that really. Never thought about it, but I can see how that could be. JuffoWup fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 21:22
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I go with the extra health skill, but yeah AFT is only ever good for shooting at distant battleships or planes. I like extra health because I'm often too aggressive in US DDs and it keeps me alive longer. 
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Jun 4, 2016 21:45
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ArchangeI posted:But let's be honest here, how often does that really happen? Do goons even play together in this game? I run into so much retarded poo poo with pubbies too, but I feel like a ton of it would be alleviated just playing with people who are on teamspeak and can form coherent sentences.
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Jun 5, 2016 04:19
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Handsome Ralph posted:Do goons even play together in this game? I run into so much retarded poo poo with pubbies too, but I feel like a ton of it would be alleviated just playing with people who are on teamspeak and can form coherent sentences. We use Discord now, not Teamspeak. And yes. Just a little while ago Juffowup and I discovered that taking an Indianapolis into the C cap with all the islands on Hot Spot is hilarious.
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Jun 5, 2016 04:51
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Not losing a star for being tops on your team is really a great change to ranked. Even if I feel like it only reinforces the fact that DDs and Battleships rule the ranked meta. Secondary Nagato build is so far working pretty well.
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Jun 5, 2016 06:18
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wdarkk posted:We use Discord now, not Teamspeak. It should be noted that as expected, all 3 of their dds went there. Sadly, even though i expected it, i went in with my blys as well as the only dd on our team. The result was me dieing shortly afterwards with me and a fubuki killing each other with torps.
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Jun 5, 2016 09:21
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I've been on travel for weeks and have been jonesing for some how seamen on seamen action. at least i return tomorrow. unfortunately, i'm traveling again so i have only 10 days to get to rank 1. 
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Jun 5, 2016 17:02
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I've been playing for six months now, most of my time spent on Jap DDs because they were so fun at lower tiers. Since there was some Minekaze-Mutsuki/torpedo upgrade talk let me tell you how it is: The Minekaze is the high point of the Jap DD line. You can stop there. You're faster than the Mutsuki and Hatsuharu by 3-4 knots. your torps pack a good punch and reload in a reasonable time and are faster than the upgraded ones on the Mutsuki. The upgraded Mutsuki actually loses 2 guns in favor of AA, so you're even worse off in any kind of a gun fight. The Hatsu has reasonable guns but theyre completely outmatched by same tier US and Rus DDs. Basically the Mut and Hatsu are not technically superior to the Minekaze in any appreciable manner, but they will face ships with far superior abilities. At tier 5 the Minekaze is a terror of the seas for two reasons: the technical limitations of the ships you will be fighting, and the player skill at that tier. Both of these factors combine allow you to just reap death upon BBs and even CLs. The low tier BBs are just too slow to evade your torps, and 3-4 will sink any BB at that level. Player skill means BBs will often get tunnel vision and forget to turn, providing you with long range shots that they never even try to avoid. Cruisers are more nimble but still often unaware of how to behave around DDs, and their firepower isnt enough to completely wipe you out before you can either fire from long range and escape or rush in close for the kill. Both of these factors are gone after tier 5. Game play for a Mutsuki or Hatsu is basically skirt the edges of the map and pray you dont see any enemy DDs. If you see a DD you must run, there is no way to win against gun based DDs and your torps are so slow and take so long to reload that if you try and get close you will be spammed by the short range fast torps of non-Jap DDs. Its terrible. Just terrible. CLs at that level have enough firepower to completely wipe you out in one or two volleys, and the knowledge and skill in tactics to avoid your torpedoes while keeping you under fire and on the defensive. Again if i see CLs on my chosen lane I must simply abort and try to find another route without opposition. BBs are so long ranged by this tier that they stay so far away it's very hard to get back into their area without being chased off by escorting ships. Their captains also know not to go in a straight line forever, spoiling long range shots. It takes 110k exp to upgrade out of the Hatsu to the Fubuki, and with opportunities to actually inflict damage being so limited its the worst grind ive ever encountered in a WG game. TLDR: Jap DDs after the Minekaze are terrible, there is no reason to play them.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:46
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It's just not loving enough sometimes.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:05
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Raw_Beef posted:I've been playing for six months now, most of my time spent on Jap DDs because they were so fun at lower tiers. I dont think anyone is going to argue that the Mutsuki or the Hatsuharu are good, but the Fubuki is an enormous upgrade. You get 50% more torpedoes and 50% more guns, and you're stealthier to boot. I loved the Minekaze and refused to buy the Mutsuki for probably six months, but I think the Shimakaze is still an amazing ship, and its worth it to take the line to X. Yes the opposition gets a lot smarter and you lose a lot of your room for error as you climb up the tree, but it teaches you (usually the hard way) how to contest caps, when its ok to use your guns, etc.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:25
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Raw_Beef posted:I've been playing for six months now, most of my time spent on Jap DDs because they were so fun at lower tiers. The Mutsuki is indeed bad, but the Hatsuharu picks up some better guns. The Fubuki is good, though, one of my favorite ships in the game. It is well worth the grind past the Hatsuharu. The Kagero is... problematic, but it can perform if coaxed enough. And the Shimakaze is, well, the Shimakaze. The nerfs sucked, but it can still do work. I just wish the devs realized that the problems at high tiers don't stem from torpedoes unless you fail to do something about CAs and BBs being terrified of getting anywhere near a Yamato, and the Zao being able to then stealth fire on these targets too far away to ever spot it. Buffing CVs *could* help, but then DDs are nerfed by proxy as CVs still do the stupid poo poo where they detect everything a DD does and render it useless. And you'll still have the problem of CVs being rare as gently caress and rather unfun to hop into when buggy UI and RNG AA comes into play. Detection mechanics in this game could seriously use some work. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 18:28
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I'm aware that the Fubuki is good, but after the Minekaze you get two ships in a row that are total dogs and very hard to get xp with. Its a terrible grind and if you dont spend money on botes (im cheap) it will take forever to get out of these terrible ships and back into the "fun" part of the game. Thats why i say its just not worht it. I re bought the Minekaze and with my firm understanding of DD tactics and the meta strategy of the mid tiers I just kill everyone all day and its great fun. So yeah, go past the Minekaze if you want to grind 200k+ xp in probably 100+ battles of no fun, so you can get the fubuki and maybe compete on an even level again, except at that tier everyone has radar so good luck.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:33
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Anyone have thoughts on the high tier US BBs post-patch? I've heard reports that the NC is now pretty good.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:02
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oh and how is indy for ranked? reports?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:07
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Are ranked battles live yet in EU?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:48
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Having real problems making any progress in ranked. I've got almost 40 games in, and I've "gained" two stars. Can't find a ship to carry in. I play BB, my DD all die instantly. I play CA, to shoot their DD, my BB all die instantly. I play DD, to cap points, I have marginal success, because the team gives up the points after I cap them. Don't know what to do, but I may not get rank 1 this season, unless these poo poo lords feel defeated before me. I really hate the tier ships picked.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:53
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Raw_Beef posted:I'm aware that the Fubuki is good, but after the Minekaze you get two ships in a row that are total dogs and very hard to get xp with. Its a terrible grind and if you dont spend money on botes (im cheap) it will take forever to get out of these terrible ships and back into the "fun" part of the game. Thats why i say its just not worht it. I re bought the Minekaze and with my firm understanding of DD tactics and the meta strategy of the mid tiers I just kill everyone all day and its great fun. Hatsuharu is perfectly capable of winning gun duels if you know what you're doing, as it actually does have fairly decent guns. Your shots have a much better arc and travel time than US DDs, and slightly better than Soviet ones, and you have better concealment so you can get the first volley off. It's always going to be chancy, but it is indeed doable. The biggest mistake I see Hatsuharu players commit is not using their guns. They're used to the nearly worthless guns of the previous few tiers, and just try to torp everything, regardless of how close it is, which against enemy DDs that are aware of you is extremely difficult.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:02
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Lord Koth posted:Hatsuharu is perfectly capable of winning gun duels if you know what you're doing, as it actually does have fairly decent guns. Your shots have a much better arc and travel time than US DDs, and slightly better than Soviet ones, and you have better concealment so you can get the first volley off. It's always going to be chancy, but it is indeed doable. The biggest mistake I see Hatsuharu players commit is not using their guns. They're used to the nearly worthless guns of the previous few tiers, and just try to torp everything, regardless of how close it is, which against enemy DDs that are aware of you is extremely difficult. It has fewer guns, slower rate of fire and slower turret traverse than all other DDs of its tier. It gets owned. I use the guns when escape is impossible to deal some damage before i die, but there is no way to win a firefight with the Hatsu. Of course the answer to this is "get gud scrub" right? Hatsuharu: 4 guns with 9.9 second reload, max range 9.3km Mahan: 5 guns with 4 second reload, max range 11.7km Kiev: 6 guns with 5 second reload max range 12.3km Hell even the tier VI DDs have better range and higher volume of fire than the Hatsuharu. Its a trash boat. Raw_Beef fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 21:19
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Its not like Hatsu can win gun duels but it can make its death be very expensive in hp for opposing destroyer. When Kiev loses 50%-75% of hp to kill Hatsu its options are limited after. Many Hatsu drivers dont do that. I disagree that Hatsu can win duels against its peers. If you start duel with even hp only way Hatsu wins it is large disparity in skill of drivers.
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Jun 5, 2016 22:21
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So I think I found the gimmick. Exploit CV matchmaking. I bring a ryujo to insure I can't face a Saipan. I outplay enemy Ryujo or I rape independence. Plenty of planes to spot DD. This should at least get me to rank 10. Then hopefully I can play with decent players.
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Jun 5, 2016 22:27
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Lady Morgaga posted:Its not like Hatsu can win gun duels but it can make its death be very expensive in hp for opposing destroyer. When Kiev loses 50%-75% of hp to kill Hatsu its options are limited after. Many Hatsu drivers dont do that. I disagree that Hatsu can win duels against its peers. If you start duel with even hp only way Hatsu wins it is large disparity in skill of drivers. Right, which confirms my original point that if youre in the Hatsu and you see an enemy DD that is anything but a Hatsu or Mutsuki you are required to turn around and try somewhere else if you dont feel like fighting in vain for 50 seconds before exploding and moving on to a different ship. Even up close the other DDs have the huge advantage of massed torpedoes that move faster and have much lower reloads. Its hosed.
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Jun 5, 2016 22:37
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My biggest complaint with WoWS is that its really opaque. Really vital information is just not available in-game. Every time you get a new ship with different guns you have to re-learn how to shoot, re-discover which ships you can reliably pen, at what angles, for several different ranges. Imagine if you just put your gun over the target and the crosshair changed colors--green for "okay", yellow for "might pen" and red for "no chance". Then there is info that is seemingly unavailable anywhere, like "how do dogfights work". I lost a dogfight, my 4 Hosho fighters vs. 2 enemy Hosho fighters, while flying directly above a friendly Omaha. The enemy didn't lose a single plane.  Is it really just a series of dice rolls?
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Jun 6, 2016 00:29
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Vengarr posted:Then there is info that is seemingly unavailable anywhere, like "how do dogfights work". I lost a dogfight, my 4 Hosho fighters vs. 2 enemy Hosho fighters, while flying directly above a friendly Omaha. The enemy didn't lose a single plane. Yes. Planes don't have health pools, instead AA guns and fighters have some chance of killing a plane every time they fire. So friendly ships don't change how your dogfight goes unless their AA actually kills something.
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Jun 6, 2016 00:40
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Vengarr posted:Every time you get a new ship with different guns you have to re-learn how to shoot, re-discover which ships you can reliably pen, at what angles, for several different ranges. It'd be nice if for the first 25 games in a new ship, you'd have 'arcs' to teach you the gun angles and estimated point of impact. Or rather, add that to co-op and training battles with AI so you can use them as cheap tutorials.
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Jun 6, 2016 00:47
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James Garfield posted:Yes. Planes don't have health pools, instead AA guns and fighters have some chance of killing a plane every time they fire. So friendly ships don't change how your dogfight goes unless their AA actually kills something. Except the planes do have health points. Just to abstract it more. I know it is just a dice roll on dead/not dead, but the planes do have a health pool stat along with damage (torp/dive bombers) or dps (fighters).
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Jun 6, 2016 01:09
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jownzy posted:So I think I found the gimmick. Exploit CV matchmaking. I bring a ryujo to insure I can't face a Saipan. I outplay enemy Ryujo or I rape independence. Plenty of planes to spot DD. This should at least get me to rank 10. Then hopefully I can play with decent players. It helps that every Indy player I've encountered in ranked is literally retarded. Literally. And of course they're usually on my team. e: right after I post, I get into a game where our strike Ryujo got like 30 of his planes shot down by a fighter Indy. Still won because lol what's a fighter Indy going to do when there's no more planes left? Godlessdonut fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 01:40
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JuffoWup posted:Except the planes do have health points. Just to abstract it more. I know it is just a dice roll on dead/not dead, but the planes do have a health pool stat along with damage (torp/dive bombers) or dps (fighters). Planes do have a durability value. The squadrons have "health pools" in the sense that you have some number of planes in the group and you lose them one at a time. Planes don't have health pools; either the thing shooting at your plane kills it, or it does nothing at all. It's much more likely for fighters to win a 2 on 4 dogfight that way than it would be if airplane combat worked the way the game suggests it does. I'm not sure you can say it's "just more abstract," when the results are really not the same at all.
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Jun 6, 2016 01:49
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jownzy posted:So I think I found the gimmick. Exploit CV matchmaking. I bring a ryujo to insure I can't face a Saipan. I outplay enemy Ryujo or I rape independence. Plenty of planes to spot DD. This should at least get me to rank 10. Then hopefully I can play with decent players. What kind of loadout do you bring to ranked? I'm so used to playing IJN CVs strike, but do you pretty much have to go fighter to counter the other guy?
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Jun 6, 2016 02:04
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James Garfield posted:Planes do have a durability value. The squadrons have "health pools" in the sense that you have some number of planes in the group and you lose them one at a time. Oh no, I mean if you hover over the plane in the module list, you'll see a specific health pool listed. The upgraded fighters on the ryojo for example has ~1200 health. Not 4 planes which is the stat you see in battle. Again though, I'm not arguing you guys are wrong, just pointing out more vagueness from wargaming.
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Jun 6, 2016 02:31
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I want to ban all of these loving morons from taking a tier V into ranked unless it's a destroyer. Leave your loving Omahas and Kongos for regular games.
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Jun 6, 2016 03:03
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El Disco posted:I want to ban all of these loving morons from taking a tier V into ranked unless it's a destroyer. Leave your loving Omahas and Kongos for regular games. Kongo isn't terrible. Range is fine and they have the speed to actually keep up with the cruisers on the team, providing faster support than other battleships. Sure you're not going to outgun Fusos, but you do have at least some unique advantages to offer. Omahas admittedly have no place, as there's nothing unique about them that something at T6 cannot offer better. Though I'd still take one over those people bringing New Yorks into ranked. Molotovs, on the other hand, I'm extremely dubious about in ranked in general. You have far fewer targets to draw fire off you than in normal games, and your armor is tin foil. Doubly so for those people bringing them into Rank 15+ games. Or honestly, people bringing virtually any T6s into 15+ games. The difference between 6 and 7 battleships is far larger than the difference between 5 and 6, due to the guns going up to 16" in size, and the accompanying much better penetration. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 03:17
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TheDemon posted:What kind of loadout do you bring to ranked? I'm so used to playing IJN CVs strike, but do you pretty much have to go fighter to counter the other guy? 1-2-2 Basically at the start of the game, I put all my planes on or around the point my DD are trying to cap. This is normally being attacked by other enemy DD. I keep them spotted permanently. I then attempt to torp them. This normally screws them all up and then my own DD gun them down. Bringing a Tier 6 carrier means I'm only fighting another Ryujo. If they go strike, no big deal... out play them. If they go AS, no big deal, just be patient. They don't have enough firepower to hurt any of your ships so you can basically wait for a moment when they get distracted and alpha one of their BB's. Even American carriers running AS haven't been successful. I've done less damage, but I've finished ship by splitting my squads up and hit them when it counts. I'm 5-0 since discovering this. I have completely dominated the skies. I've sunk as many as 4 ships in one game, 2 of which being DD. Just get out there early and help your DD win that first battle, it really sets the stage. Do not bother playing a tier 7 carrier, unless you want to fight Saipan. I need to get myself a 15 point captain so I can get the extra fighter and bomber. I don't really think anyone's figured out what I'm doing. I've seen people I played against in previous games try it, but I can generally out play them, and really any shitters I get stuck with on my team if the map is large enough. Again, number one objective win that first engagement for your DD's by supporting them. Edit: Lost my first game in it... we had 2 BB, they had 3. Our only tier 7 BB was afk. Not even a Ryujo can save that... especially with a Cleveland and a Pensacola hugging them. jownzy fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 03:24
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Lord Koth posted:Kongo isn't terrible. Range is fine and they have the speed to actually keep up with the cruisers on the team, providing faster support than other battleships. Sure you're not going to outgun Fusos, but you do have at least some unique advantages to offer. Omahas admittedly have no place, as there's nothing unique about them that something at T6 cannot offer better. Though I'd still take one over those people bringing New Yorks into ranked. Admittedly a small sample size, but about 90% the Kongos I've seen in ranked either try to go toe to toe with a Fuso or Warspite and lose horribly, or stay at long range and do pretty much nothing until their team is about to lose. Agree 100% about New Yorks. Bring the far superior New Mexico or don't bother to play ranked until you have it.
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Jun 6, 2016 03:46
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Molotov is fine with a skilled player ranks 22-16. I had a 66% overall with it getting to 15, but it really is a race to put as much hurt as you can as soon as possible on any cruisers and destroyers and then just focusing on any target that's broadside. Now that I'm in 15 I'm using the Blys which is way more fun and a total bully when controlling caps.
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Jun 6, 2016 04:10
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JuffoWup posted:Oh no, I mean if you hover over the plane in the module list, you'll see a specific health pool listed. The upgraded fighters on the ryojo for example has ~1200 health. Not 4 planes which is the stat you see in battle.
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Jun 6, 2016 04:28
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Whats better for a Japanese battleship, +20% aa range or +100% aa damage to one target?
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Jun 6, 2016 04:35
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Ghetto Prince posted:Whats better for a Japanese battleship, +20% aa range or +100% aa damage to one target? +20% AA range all day every day, especially given it also buffs your secondary range. Starting to pick at their planes further out is much better than boosting a single set of gun damage at a range where the enemy CV is about to drop torpedoes anyways. Note that the manual skill ONLY boosts your 127 mm AA guns, whereas the other skill boosts the range of all of them. Guns with a range of 3 km are basically worthless for mitigating an incoming attack, but at 3.7 km range, they actually have a chance to help out. And again, it boosts your secondary range too. You're playing an IJN battleship, you have excellent secondaries. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 04:49
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 Thanks!
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Jun 6, 2016 05:06
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Playing a DD or CA with pubs is painful. It seems every team I'm on my team just wants to huddle together, especially on the maps with 3 points on them. No one will actually engage the enemy, so I either have to charge ahead on my own or else cower in the back with everyone else while our team slowly loses. It is pathetic. One map I was part of a group of 3 cruisers moving forward to engage a destroyer and a couple of enemy cruisers. I'm zoomed in taking shots at the destroyer, and take it out, and realize that I'm taking a lot more shots from the cruisers than I'd expect if I had 2 allies with me. Zoom back out, and lo and behold my allies had turned tail and ran to the far edge of the map to cower.
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Jun 6, 2016 07:29
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Ghetto Prince posted:Whats better for a Japanese battleship, +20% aa range or +100% aa damage to one target? Manual AA should only be taken as a supplement to Advanced Firing Training. Don't take it without the other skill, as the other skill dramatically increases the range at which your long range aura hits to, which then makes Manual AA really scary. But that's only if you're ok with sinking 8 points into AA skills and forgoing a Rank 5 skill.
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Jun 6, 2016 10:01
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