|
greatn posted:Why don't they just write Superboy Prime to become editor at Marvel and take out their competition? Nah. The character has a hate Boner and was shown to read every DC comic and post Angry messages on the DC boards. He is a satire of the petulant man child comic fan. Of course his natural evolution would have been to petulant man child writer at DC who makes the DCU HIS way. Edit: this would be too self aware for Geoff Johns.
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
greatn posted:Why don't they just write Superboy Prime to become editor at Marvel and take out their competition? Because Geoff Johns and Dan Didio are the heads of DC, not Grant Morrison, so Kaos Magik spells don't work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:Hal Jordan is a dumb character and I can't muster the care to give a gently caress about his continuity. That is how I handle his New 52 issues. You should have read the first 6 or so of his Nu52 series as it was basically Sinestro calling out Jordan on being a complete tool and a failure of a human being for 6 issues. It was pretty great.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
I had to Google what the gently caress "DCYou" is and I still don't know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
PoshAlligator posted:I had to Google what the gently caress "DCYou" is and I still don't know. It was a branding and editorial edict that DC books should focus more on good storytelling than devotion to canon and history, and that they should, occasionally, write for and market to people who are not 40-something white straight men. It was widely praised by readers and so of course it was dropped.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
Wasn't it a gigantic commercial failure?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Wasn't it a gigantic commercial failure?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:30
|
|
|
Miller and Romita Discuss the death of Jason Todd in DKR: The Last Crusadequote:IGN: What's it been like for you to finally flesh out Jason, explore his character in this world, and show readers his aggressive personality and a tendency toward violence? I actually had forgotten about this one. Reading through the preview pages, I couldn't help but to think about Kick-rear end. The tone feels similar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Why can't we have good stories and books with the rich history?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
They gave it like two months before declaring it a massive failure. They expected since they had a few books starring young people and/or minorities everything should have been doing Batgirl numbers right out of the gate. When Dr. Fate didn't get that kind of heat behind it they checked out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Miller and Romita Discuss the death of Jason Todd in DKR: The Last Crusade Do you have any opinions on anything non Jason Todd related?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Do you have any opinions on anything non Jason Todd related?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Why can't we have good stories and books with the rich history? At this point DC's canon is both its biggest strength and weakness. There's so much of it, and so much of it is actively contradictory that unless one utilizes something like Hypertime (which is basically a Morrison-only idea at this point) the sheer amount of canon is downright paralyzing. You can even see it with all the various Crises that DC does; outside of Identity they're all corrective actions meant to explain or justify certain sticky points of the canon/fold in out-of-canon acquisitions like Wildstorm or Vertigo or whatever. It's largely from DC trying to create one universe much like the 616 Marvel was built on, even though as soon as Barry Allen was created it just doesn't really work without needlessly complicating the backstory. DCYou was not only a good idea, it's really the only realistic way to treat how complicated the larger DC comics universe has become. It should embrace the fact that it's a company founded on Legacy and stop trying to be Marvel. But, well. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jun 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:He has plenty. They're usually "it's bad" though. I haven't seen any expect, "please notice me Jason Todd."
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
The point that DC editors and DC readers need to learn is that it doesn't matter if things are contradictory as long as it's a good story. Marvel doesn't worry about if a story they're writing today clashes with some random poo poo in the '80s and that's the way it should be. Continuity can be a fun part of comics, but just concentrate on writing good stories and I won't care if you want to do something that clashes with the past.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Why can't we have good stories and books with the rich history? You can. But apparently people come in and say "hey I want to write a story about batgirl being Barbara Gordon living in Brooklyn" and the default answer was "no, she's paralyzed and oracle and you cant" and DCYou changed that answer to "awesome, go for it". However, Batgirl was the only book they had that was both a good idea and popular, and they used the failure of weak/less popular ideas as proof that readers were not interested in such things at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Er, the only thing DCYou changed about Batgirl was her costume and which neighborhood she lived in. She's been Barbara Gordon since the start of the New 52.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
Batgirl was already not Oracle and not paralyzed, though, she was wasting away in a Gail Simone book nobody was reading. Tarr and Stewart's revised and incredibly popular Batgirl actually predated DC You, for that matter. I think it was the success of that book that made DC briefly want to sell comics to young people again, hence DC You.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
X-O posted:The point that DC editors and DC readers need to learn is that it doesn't matter if things are contradictory as long as it's a good story. Marvel doesn't worry about if a story they're writing today clashes with some random poo poo in the '80s and that's the way it should be. Continuity can be a fun part of comics, but just concentrate on writing good stories and I won't care if you want to do something that clashes with the past. Yeah I agree with this. I think one of the biggest problems they have is DC is constantly tinkering with origins or introducing a 7th robin when nobody ages past 35. Toxxupation posted:At this point DC's canon is both its biggest strength and weakness. There's so much of it, and so much of it is actively contradictory that unless one utilizes something like Hypertime (which is basically a Morrison-only idea at this point) the sheer amount of canon is downright paralyzing. You can even see it with all the various Crises that DC does; outside of Identity they're all corrective actions meant to explain or justify certain sticky points of the canon/fold in out-of-canon acquisitions like Wildstorm or Vertigo or whatever. It's largely from DC trying to create one universe much like the 616 Marvel was built on, even though as soon as Barry Allen was created it just doesn't really work without needlessly complicating the backstory. The biggest problem with the sheer amount of canon is accessibility. It is both expensive and a pain to track down individual back issues digitally or psychically. Fix this and it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Hypertime is Waid's baby. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Yeah a DC Unlimited would go a long way towards blunting people's arguments against DCs universe being confusing and hard to follow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:It was a branding and editorial edict that DC books should focus more on good storytelling than devotion to canon and history, and that they should, occasionally, write for and market to people who are not 40-something white straight men. I thought it was critically acclaimed but as far as readership went, it was a dud. However, Travis343 posted:They gave it like two months before declaring it a massive failure. They expected since they had a few books starring young people and/or minorities everything should have been doing Batgirl numbers right out of the gate. When Dr. Fate didn't get that kind of heat behind it they checked out. the fact that they didn't wait to see how trade sales were (especially on titles that pretty much sell better in trade format than single) was one of the dumbest thing DC did. They should have waited until the first trade of the series came out before deciding what to do with the titles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
I have also heard that DC does not care about digital sales which is real stupid
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
I really liked Midnighter and Black Canary from the DCYou lineup. Didn't really care for the rest of the line. I was really excited about Prez but ended up not liking it.JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah a DC Unlimited would go a long way towards blunting people's arguments against DCs universe being confusing and hard to follow. Sorry, Marvel did it. So they can't. See also: Recap Pages.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
I've also heard good things about Constantine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
For me Prez was the standout which definitely had no chance, though it was nice to see DC try something outside of the regular superhero stuff, something they haven't done since the 90's. Black Canary started off fun and with lots of promise but it fizzled at the end. I am tradewaiting Omega Men and Midnighter and Dr. Fate though so I guess I am partially to blame for those not being higher sellers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:I have also heard that DC does not care about digital sales which is real stupid Like Madkal says they don't even wait for trade sales. poo poo they don't even put out trades for entire runs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:12
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Hypertime is Waid's baby. Didn't Karl Kesel do more wth it in Superboy than Waid ever got the chance to do himself?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
To be fair, they let all the new books other than Doomed run their course* As long as they're not obviously chopped off prematurely, I don't mind 12 issue runs in the face of stuff like Johns' Superman and Ellis' Moon Knight. Also, maybe it was me getting back into comics with Morrison's Batman and Final Crisis, but I find the convoluted and goofy histories of decades old characters to be a ton of fun. *Unless we can counting DC You JLU. I'm steamed at that. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jun 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:25
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:I've also heard good things about Constantine. Black Canary was good in its first arc and then it kind of collapsed onto itself after. The whole "Dinah touring with a band" just didn't have any good buildup, issue 7 and onward had a weird plot, and the supporting characters were pretty bland with the exception of the main antagonist. Annie Wu's art was the best part about it, but then she left interior duties so I dropped it after. I think DCYou was good in concept, but bad in execution. I think them relaunching everything and starting fresh is a good tactic, as well as changing creative teams on books that have been loving dying for new blood (Wonder Woman and Flash especially needed better teams to handle them and they both look a lot more promising now.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:27
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Didn't Karl Kesel do more wth it in Superboy than Waid ever got the chance to do himself? Beats me. I've never had the chance to read Superboy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:35
|
|
|
Mad Max Wacky Racers preview. http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/06/03/exclusive-dc-preview-wacky-raceland-1/      Except for 'Def Legit' I'm into this. Did I forget that Wacky Race cars talked to each other like Toy Story? This variant.  
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:
I like that stuff too but not nearly as much as Morrison seems to. He's a great writer but he gets so far up his own rear end over how cool Captain Only Appeared In 3 Issues In 1974 is and how much more pure and real an art form it is than anything made after 1990. DCYou just sort of seemed like DC cargo culting Marvel and Image. Make some minority heroes, get a woman to draw some stuff, and it should instantly be good right? No? Too soon to tell or a woman artist doesn't magically make people write better? Oh well gently caress it, cancel it all, send out a memo to "stop Batgirling" and bring back a guy from the Silver Age instead. Continue to ignore trades and digital and don't investigate or understand why some groups gravitate towards those mediums. Don't investigate WHY books like USG or Ms. Marvel are popular. Joe Wednesday Warrior will totally be able to support your business model forever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Bud, hiring Babs Tarr was a brilliant bit of editorial work. Nothing snide about it. Also, ask the people who made and enjoyed Angela, Black Knight, Red Wolf or Weirdworld if there's not an equally quick and brutal reaction to monthly sales over there. e: Moreso. Again, the 'You generally let things ride out. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:Joe Wednesday Warrior will totally be able to support your business model forever. The problem is that DC, being owned by WB, has no motivation to change especially because of the success of Nolan Batman and the relative success of the Snyder movies. Until superhero mvoies stop being sure bets DC will have zero financial incentive to change course, especially when all the DCEU films have been an extension of the "Grim, gritty white men punching each other in the rain" tone that DC Comics has been reveling in (with few exceptions) since Flashpoint.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:The problem is that DC, being owned by WB, has no motivation to change especially because of the success of Nolan Batman and the relative success of the Snyder movies. Until superhero mvoies stop being sure bets DC will have zero financial incentive to change course, especially when all the DCEU films have been an extension of the "Grim, gritty white men punching each other in the rain" tone that DC Comics has been reveling in (with few exceptions) since Flashpoint. I'm certain that some executive at WB has sat down with Didio or whoever and said "explain to me why Marvel sells twice as much as you and explain to me why you aren't doing whatever that reason is."
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
Can you guys talk a bit about what DC has been like for the last 10 or so years? I read a lot of DC when I was a kid, mostly Batman, but I moved to Marvel around the early to mid 2000's. I'm looking to maybe get back into DC but the last time I really felt Batman was No Man's Land. My perception is that all of the "universe explodes, then relaunches" are tiresome. I feel like DC was putting out some really compelling writing from the mid 80's to early 2000's with some great Batman stories like Death in the Family, TDKR, The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, Knightfall, No Man's Land. And their Vertigo Imprint was kicking rear end with the likes of Preacher and The Sandman. There was also stuff like The Invisibles and Watchmen. On the other hand, at the time, the only thing I read from Marvel was Spider-Man's Clone Saga, so the contrast at least from my own perspective was pretty stark. Then Marvel started putting out some big events that piqued my interest because they weren't so black & white. The stories often put heroes at odds with each other due to struggling with moral and ethical questions. Not every story was handled perfectly of course and there were legitimate criticisms, but from my perspective it was compelling reading. I just felt like Marvel started writing more "shades of gray" stories, which I found more interesting. I'd go into more detail but this isn't a marvel thread. The thing is, I haven't really read a whole lot of DC in the past decade so there's probably a lot of good compelling writing in there. I do remember reading a few great Superman stories. What do you guys think of DC now vs the 90's? What's some good stuff they put out over the last decade?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:I'm certain that some executive at WB has sat down with Didio or whoever and said "explain to me why Marvel sells twice as much as you and explain to me why you aren't doing whatever that reason is." Dan Didio: "They have Star Wars. We have Wacky Raceland."
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
We're less than a day away from Rucka WW and a possibly good new start for The Flash. Hush now  -Blackadder- posted:What's some good stuff they put out over the last decade? Grant Morrison's Batman (2006-2013?) and Scott Snyder's Batman (The Black Mirror and 2011 Batman) are stone classics. Tom King has become a bonifidey new superstar and is taking over Bat. His series Grayson and Omega Men are brilliant (plus Vision over at Marvel, if you haven't checked that out.) There's no comic more ethically blurred than Omega Men. Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman was huge, and it's on sale now if you do digital https://www.comixology.com/DC-Universe-Rebirth-101-Part-2-Sale/page/11016?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL3NtYWxsQ2Fyb3VzZWw Grant Morrison did a cool new Superman origin at the start of 2011 Action Comics and Greg Pak started doing the best Supes stories in years where this trade picks up http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Acti..._=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 For non-JL stuff, Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire did a great pair of creepy comics with the New 52 Swamp Thing and Animal Man. There's a start. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jun 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:We're less than a day away from Rucka WW and a possibly good new start for The Flash. Hush now Both of which I am extremely excited about. I have a Flash tattoo and last weekend spend a few hundred dollars on artist convention sketches of the Flash. I am a 35 year old straight white man. I tease DC because I love them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
Both Wonder Woman and Flash should be good because there are really good writers involved. Rucka is of course Rucka, and Williamson writes Birthright which is one of my favorite Image books in addition to doing really good work on Illuminati (RIP), Ghosted, and Nailbiter. That plus Action Comics and Detective Comics means a good day for DC books tomorrow. There's also Aquaman, proving that they can't all be winners I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 23:20
|
|