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Genocyber posted:Ad hominem, nice. Saves me a ton of time and energy, yes
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Jun 7, 2016 22:18
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Vicas posted:Saves me a ton of time and energy, yes Glad we're on the same wavelength. 
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Jun 7, 2016 22:25
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Vicas posted:My only opinion on the whole "can't wield their starting weapon effectively" debate is: it's bad I think the fact that DS2 Cleric is the only class in the entire series that can't use its own equipment correctly kind of seals the deal as 'bad design' rather than 'totally cool paradigm changer'. I do appreciate the sense of powerlessness conveyed through DS2's classes, though; the obvious gaps in your equipment and overall poor stats makes the early game more fun when you're scrounging together gear. Not to mention Deprived is REALLY deprived and you gotta win all your early fights with your bare hands.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:36
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I think Geop's doing excellently thus far and the only thing that maybe could be improved on is saving Estus for fights and just popping life gems in their place since those will come up as drops and you only get so many Estus at this point. Plus it's slow as heck.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:39
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I'm definitely in the camp that obfuscating basic mechanics is a "bad thing". Like Humanity in DS1, especially whe it first came out and they were hard to come by? No real clue that being human made you curse-resistant, or that holding a lot made you have higher item find. "Oh I can turn human at the bonfire? Cool..... why? Oh it lets me kindle.... why?" That said, I think the 2-hand-to-meet-requirements is something most people can figure out. The game does explicitly tell you that two-handing is a thing, and if you're paying attention at all, you'll notice that you're doing more damage that way. So when you pick up a weapon you can't swing, I think you have the requisite knowledge to at least try pressing "Y". Yeah, cryptic mechanics bad, but I think that one is forgivable. Captain Lavender fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 23:56
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I had the same reaction as Geop when I learned about the despawning enemies. I then went on to clear out the next 3 areas from dying to the bosses so much. Finally I got tired of the game being such a slog and stopped playing. Granted, that was the same week DS3 came out, so I had something else to scratch the Souls itch.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:03
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Captain Lavender posted:I'm definitely in the camp that obfuscating basic mechanics is a "bad thing". Like Humanity in DS1, especially whe it first came out and they were hard to come by? No real clue that being human made you curse-resistant, or that holding a lot made you have higher item find. "Oh I can turn human at the bonfire? Cool..... why? Oh it lets me kindle.... why?" If I 2-handed a weapon in a game I'd never played before and the Red X disappeared from the HUD, I'd really want to know why that happened, because a red X tends to signify something important and there's literally nothing in the game that explains to me why it just went away. Does 2-handing mean I need less strength to wield something? Maybe, but until the game actually confirms that for me it feels pretty dodgy to just assume I'd think of that first and apply it going forward The biggest problem I have with DS2 vs 1 in regards to mechanics is that DS1 is, when it all comes down to it, much simpler. It doesn't really explain enough about its systems (weapon upgrading is confusing as hell to a new player) but overall there are few enough systems, most of which rely on well known fantasy and gaming tropes ("sure, int corresponds to spells and faith to miracles") that it doesn't suffer from it as much. 2 adds a ton of combat variety, new combat mechanics, a new magic type, and even changes up things familiar to players of the first game, like stat requirements for weapons not being total dealbreakers. And it doesn't explain any of that. Powerstancing is cool. I wish the game literally ever mentioned it existed. Even mechanics it technically does cover are done kinda badly. Things Betwixt is a very visually arresting area, but as a tutorial it kind of blows. I get that they wanted to make the tutorial optional for more experienced players but it just makes the whole thing feel like a jungle gym training area that's largely disconnected from the actual game. The game is honestly kind of awful at teaching you how to play it, leaving you to fumble around and either luck into something that sticks or get fed up and decide this whole Souls thing just isn't for you
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Jun 8, 2016 00:18
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things i dont like about dark souls 2: solaire doesnt kick ur rear end while yelling "sun's up motherfucker" repeatedly
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Jun 8, 2016 00:21
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Still waiting for the Summer Sale to pick up DS3, so I've decided to run through DS2 again. On a Dual Whip Run!
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Jun 8, 2016 00:25
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Takes No Damage posted:I think there's just a fundamental difference in the intended playstyle between DS1 and SotFS. The first game was largely built around carefully controlling encounters and turtling behind a 100% block shield while slowly wearing enemies down. DS2 seems to reward quickly wrecking dudes before their friends show up, and Scholar just further emphasizes the importance of crowd control. A focus on defense VS offense I guess is how I would characterize it. Geop just needs to dehumanize himself and face to power stancing a mace and a hammer for the rest of the game You can shield your way through DS2 pretty well but blocking is weakened so you can't do it with an arbitrary medium shield like you could before. Invest enough strength to use a greatshield -- like the Twin Dragon one whatshisface in Majula sells at the very start of the game, which is lightweight, has 95% physical resist and is decently stable -- and you can turtle efficiently. Medium shields are still very useful, but require you play more aggressively since there will be more attacks incoming than you can block. Also, powerstancing is cool and I constantly it with very large weapons like ultra greatswords because it looks cool and makes me think I'm awesome at hitting things with swords, but mechanically it's slow, stamina-inefficient and mostly a trap. Sometimes you'll hit a breakpoint where powerstancing things lets you oneshot or poise-break enemies that you otherwise wouldn't, but 90% of the time it's a waste of stamina and you should just 2-hand.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:25
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Fun fact: you obtain a Dagger before the tutorial about two handing. Any new Cleric who re-equips the mace after testing their new weapon will be greeted with a menacing "Unable to use this item effectively with present attributes, unless wielded with both hands." More astute newbies will probably wonder what on earth that means, and why they don't have the stats for their starting equipment. Less astute ones will ponder why trying the dagger makes it so now they can't use the Mace anymore(!). I don't believe any will marvel at the inherent class flaw (that isn't even a flaw as it barely affects damage). Maybe if the game started the Cleric in two-handed and didn't forget your stance and revert to one-handed every time you switch weapons, it could have been a clever nudge towards a certain gameplay style. But it does neither of these things, so it's just confusing and bad. It's the same problem the game has with shields, actually. You want to encourage power-stancing and dodging? Perhaps don't have your UI ostensibly show a shield and a parrying tool in your "left hand" icons. Maybe drop a couple more lines about how powerstancing works and what it does. It's not as easy to understand as a basic concept like guarding. Miacis fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 00:36
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Vicas posted:Mechanics stuff Yeah, I agree with all that. Where I was coming from is that I think the average player who is paying some attention, can functionally figure out that 2-handing may make an unusable weapon usable. But yeah, it's really wanting, and even with Dark Souls 1 being my favorite game of all time, I've always thought that hiding gameplay mechanics from players is one of its biggest weaknesses.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:39
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Vicas posted:Discussion In fact, I'd turn that argument on its head to say that (excepting Adaptability, which we all agree warranted better explanation) DS2 isn't nearly so cryptic as DS1. Most weapons and armor pieces upgrade with the same path without needing to split on this or that fork with weird materials, and if you want to orient your weapon beyond just Str/Dex then the relevant infusions are entirely orthogonal to upgrading. There are a whole bunch of derived values on your sheet that tell you how concretely you're improving something, rather than just obscuring important things like damage scaling as DS1 did. Scaling bonuses aren't inherently coupled with weapon damage, so a C scaling (say) in Strength means about the same thing regardless of which weapon you're using.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:51
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Personally I think geop should power wield the mace and a weapon he will get shortly after the next boss. It gives the best possible DPS with his style of gameplay. He will get an A rank and B rank in strength scaling. Plus it has an amazing moveset with a long range. He just need to find the invisible wall that in the corridor right after the boss on the right side. Also once he gets the catarine armor he can really start fashion souls. But the best fashion souls is yet to come... (I have no idea what I'm talking about. I have never played dark souls. I am just cargo culting the thread.)
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Jun 8, 2016 02:04
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Shwqa posted:Personally I think geop should power wield the mace and a weapon he will get shortly after the next boss. It gives the best possible DPS with his style of gameplay. He will get an A rank and B rank in strength scaling. Plus it has an amazing moveset with a long range. He just need to find the invisible wall that in the corridor right after the boss on the right side. Also once he gets the catarine armor he can really start fashion souls. But the best fashion souls is yet to come... Praise the sun, git gud, High Noon, mimic ahead, Try Jumping, Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda. Wait, I think I got off track along the way there. Uhh... Oh, I was lost in thought, If only I could be so grossly incandescent, It's a me, your old pal Patches. (Same)
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Jun 8, 2016 02:09
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Genocyber posted:Ad hominem, nice. i, too, go to the geop dark souls 2 lp thread for scholarly, thoughtful debates about video game mechanics
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Jun 8, 2016 03:43
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Suspicious Dish posted:i, too, go to the geop dark souls 2 lp thread for scholarly, thoughtful debates about video game mechanics Man, if the Scholar of the First Sin thread isn't the place to go for thoughtful debate on Dark Souls mechanics then where are we supposed to go?
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Jun 8, 2016 04:02
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Controversial opinion: dark souls 2 is good.
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Jun 8, 2016 04:09
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Arrhythmia posted:Controversial opinion: dark souls 2 is good. 
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Jun 8, 2016 04:27
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Miacis posted:Fun fact: you obtain a Dagger before the tutorial about two handing. Any new Cleric who re-equips the mace after testing their new weapon will be greeted with a menacing "Unable to use this item effectively with present attributes, unless wielded with both hands." Double checked and Clerics don't have the dex requirement to use the dagger even lmao. The red (red frequently meaning bad) number might dissuade the newbies from trying to put it on. Seriously though even though the function of weapon use means that this is a minor problem, it's still kind of hosed up that you just don't get to have a weapon you can one-hand as a starting cleric.
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Jun 8, 2016 04:33
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Suspicious Dish posted:i, too, go to the geop dark souls 2 lp thread for scholarly, thoughtful debates about video game mechanics Well duh, did you think this thread was for puns or something?
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Jun 8, 2016 04:36
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Steak Eater posted:Double checked and Clerics don't have the dex requirement to use the dagger even lmao. The red (red frequently meaning bad) number might dissuade the newbies from trying to put it on. Seriously though even though the function of weapon use means that this is a minor problem, it's still kind of hosed up that you just don't get to have a weapon you can one-hand as a starting cleric. Considering that you don't have a shield... what's the problem exactly?
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Jun 8, 2016 04:57
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 It's brought up a few times in this session, but we'll probably have the screen-sharing stuff sorted out by next time.
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Jun 8, 2016 05:00
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Geop posted:
Hey what do you think you're doing? We're having a very serious discussion here and we don't need you coming in here trying to change topics. Who do you think you are? How rude. 
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Jun 8, 2016 05:05
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edit: well that post definitely wasn't good enough to be posted twice.
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Jun 8, 2016 05:05
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THAT'LL DO I hope you kept count of your deaths during your off-screen grinding Geop!!
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Jun 8, 2016 05:27
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Oh my god Pate is voiced by Peter Serafinowicz, AKA Darth Maul, Pete from Shaun of the Dead and general British comedy! That's great!
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Jun 8, 2016 05:38
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Hostile V posted:Oh my god Pate is voiced by Peter Serafinowicz, AKA Darth Maul, Pete from Shaun of the Dead and general British comedy! That's great! Thanks, Encyclopedia Brown.
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Jun 8, 2016 05:46
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Hostile V posted:Oh my god Pate is voiced by Peter Serafinowicz, AKA Darth Maul, Pete from Shaun of the Dead and general British comedy! That's great! 
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Jun 8, 2016 05:53
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Is it me or does the Elite Knight set kinda have a larger skirt this time around?
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Jun 8, 2016 06:00
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Fabulousvillain posted:Is it me or does the Elite Knight set kinda have a larger skirt this time around? It's the same length. It just has physics now and isn't glued to your butt.
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Jun 8, 2016 06:04
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Lizard Wizard posted:Thanks, Encyclopedia Brown. Geop posted:I... I didn't know Pete & Darth Maul were the same person (Geop never get into movies or you'll know all sorts of useless crap like this)
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Jun 8, 2016 06:06
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You know what happens when a toad gets struck by a lightsaber?
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Jun 8, 2016 06:08
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SynthOrange posted:You know what happens when a toad gets struck by a lightsaber?
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Jun 8, 2016 06:11
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Geop posted:I... I didn't know Pete & Darth Maul were the same person
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Jun 8, 2016 06:22
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NGDBSS posted:He also played Aldo in Spy, which is probably one of his closer roles to Pate. Though the latter isn't also a goony womanizer. Please, you don't know that's untrue.
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Jun 8, 2016 06:23
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The better fact: Peter Serafinowicz is in this game because he's a relatively big-name fan of the series. Dude adores the Souls games.
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Jun 8, 2016 06:27
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Pete Sarcophagus is a super cool guy.
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Jun 8, 2016 06:53
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Mighty Dicktron posted:The better fact: Peter Serafinowicz is in this game because he's a relatively big-name fan of the series. Dude adores the Souls games.  I was not aware. That's great.
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Jun 8, 2016 07:18
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Geop when are you gonna let us invade/jolly co-op with you
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Jun 8, 2016 07:25
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...