Octatonic posted:

I wonder why the dominant group might have difficulty emphasising with an outgroup. Perhaps when you objectify a population, it serves to paper over their subjective experiences, effectively rendering them something different and lesser than a whole human being in the minds of the in-group. The in-group, however, is still depicted with the subjectivity and complexity necessary to empathize with them. It's an interesting system, that you could apply to a lot of power dynamics, really.

robotsinmyhead posted:

The best part is that there is no why. Why would Hillary and Obama do this? Oh, because they're evil - evil for evil's sake.

It's like right wingers believe they live in a world where people behave like cartoon supervillains. I think it's the one thing that really confuses me on a functional level. If you ask them why Hillary and Obama would do something like this, they replay with "Because they hate America and they shred the Constitution. Oh and they lie" No benefit, no reason, just BECAUSE.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

In fairness, when Dick Cheney is on your side, it's easy to make that mistake.

Bast Relief posted:

They've just never had to. They don't consume media that would require them to do so. They are allowed to bully others out of the hobbies and jobs they occupy. Empathy is not in their skill set.

I mean, my boyfriend's dumb rear end childhood friends still can't understand that my Facebook page is actually, you know, mine, and that they aren't talking to their bro there. Dudes, he ain't gonna see your message and it creeps me out when you talk about me in the third person on my own page. They're all middle aged men who have "arrived" through "hard work". Even the nice ones are infuriating. They'll even respond to my posts by addressing my boyfriend. So yeah, there's no way anything is going to sink in with people like this. They can only understand themselves and their experiences.

sidviscous posted:

I love how they like to have it both ways. NOT ALL MEN!!!! If we try to say that we have to be wary around men, but GOD drat WOMAN TAKE SOME PRECAUTIONS if one actually attacks us

El Gallinero Gros posted:

In fairness, when Dick Cheney is on your side, it's easy to make that mistake.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Or Kissinger-senpai.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Or Kissinger-senpai.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

poo poo I didn't even think of that. Although it takes a pretty mean feat to shoot somebody in the face and have them apologize to YOU for it.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

My favorite late Jon Stewart line was (in a context I can't remember) "I haven't been this happy since the Vice President shot a man in the face."

(Although my favorite BIT might have been him explaining with musical accompaniment how torn he was between his personal respect and friendship for Anthony Weiner, and his solemn duty as a comedian to respond appropriately to a sex scandal about a man whose last name means penis.)

twistedmentat posted:

I remember one of things mentioned when debunking Benghzi was that it would have been impossible to get troops over there, or even planes by the time it was over. It pointed out that it takes around 15 minutes to "scramble" aircraft into the air, and that's not including time for the troops to get ready, not to mention actually deploying them where they're needed. But then I realize most people use video games and movies as their basis for how things work and assume that troops can be deployed instantly when something goes wrong anywhere in the world.

Chilichimp posted:

Being that the attack on the embassy and the CIA annex took ~7 hours, they were well within range of air support. Stevens died pretty early on, but the last 2 fatalities were after 5:00am the next morning.

I'm seriously just reading this poo poo from the wiki.

Bast Relief posted:

They've just never had to. They don't consume media that would require them to do so. They are allowed to bully others out of the hobbies and jobs they occupy. Empathy is not in their skill set.

I mean, my boyfriend's dumb rear end childhood friends still can't understand that my Facebook page is actually, you know, mine, and that they aren't talking to their bro there. Dudes, he ain't gonna see your message and it creeps me out when you talk about me in the third person on my own page. They're all middle aged men who have "arrived" through "hard work". Even the nice ones are infuriating. They'll even respond to my posts by addressing my boyfriend. So yeah, there's no way anything is going to sink in with people like this. They can only understand themselves and their experiences.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

the attack on the consulate was over in like a half hour - even the dudes who were a couple blocks away at the CIA annex didn't get there until stevens and vilerat were killed

RareAcumen posted:

Chilichimp posted:

Yeah, then the Annex was under attack all night.

Cugel the Clever posted:

Christ, the message is so spot on, but the implementation is so godawful—how do people gently caress up images so badly? What the gently caress are they using to capture and edit that it does that to the file??

Lamprey Cannon posted:

Geostomp posted:

Yes. While forcing people into an outgroup can often be deliberate and malicious, after a while it keeps going under its own inertia as those in the dominate culture continue forward under the assumption that said group simply isn't as "real" as their own. "My group gets all the focus because my group is just better," is an unspoken fact in their minds much like gravity. They get extremely callous and angry when an outgroup tries to remind them that they are as human as they are because the dominate group simply considers their inferiority a fact of nature. Suggest that this state is unfair or that they did not actually earn favor and you'll see honest surpise and wounded lashing out because they never considered the possibility that they could be getting more than their fair share. It was all just normal to them. Empathy and consideration of the outgroup is a foreign concept that must be learned over time.

It's a ridiculously simple outlook that leads to so many horrors, but it's understandable as to why it continues.

Jack Gladney posted:

My father occasionally reflects with pride on the many accomplishments of the white race and with disgust whenever he hears about a black person accomplishing anything, because black people have never accomplished what white people have. One peculiar memory I have from childhood is him getting angry at seeing Shaft on tv because Shaft was apparently an attempt by black people to make an inferior black copy of James Bond. I had my y-dna sequenced to see if there was anything non-european that I could use to terrorize him at an appropriate moment, like his deathbed. It didn't, so I'll have to settle for his growing realization that he and his awful beliefs have ceased to matter. This is something that is being bred out of the culture generation to generation, I think.

Chilichimp posted:

Yeah, then the Annex was under attack all night.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

that's usually not what people complain about when they talk about benghazi, plus the annex held its own

Good Citizen posted:

Even if troops could get there in time, and that doesn't seem to match up with what every military person involved has said, dropping them in there would have only turned the event into an even larger tragedy

Good Citizen posted:

Even if troops could get there in time, and that doesn't seem to match up with what every military person involved has said, dropping them in there would have only turned the event into an even larger tragedy

GreyjoyBastard posted:

poo poo, they might have wound up in an altercation with the civilian crowd that had a very fair chance at saving Stevens' life. Didn't work out, but he was not quite dead when they found him.

The video is genuinely heartwarming in many ways. "Holy poo poo, he's alive! Who has a car? We need to get him to the hospital!"

And some random Libyan civilian winds up booking it across town with the American victim of a mission attack to a hospital, where Stevens passed away.

robotsinmyhead posted:

If you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the mis-read caused by Fog of War type misinformation, you're likely to not be a Benghazi conspiracy theory person. Everyone else thinks that the State Dept (HRC herself, and no one else) knew the whole story from the get-go and purposefully LIED to everyone about this movie for ??? reason, conveniently forgetting that there was a revised statement on in the incident later.

twistedmentat posted:

Are you saying some MUSLIM showed not just humanity, but actual heroism to save the life of someone they did not know? Not in MY America.

I really doubt that fact has ever been reported on Fox or any of the other Benghazi outrage stations.

Rob Dreher posted:

Trump’s Personal Jesus
By Rod Dreher • June 9, 2016, 11:16 AM

M-A-K-E A-M-E-R-I-C-A G-R-E-A-T A-G-A-I-N (Carlos E. Santa Maria/Shutterstock)
M-A-K-E A-M-E-R-I-C-A G-R-E-A-T A-G-A-I-N (Carlos E. Santa Maria/Shutterstock)

Did you read the transcript of Cal Thomas’s interview with Donald Trump? You should. Especially these parts:

CT: My grandparents used to play a parlor game. It went like this: Tell me who you are without telling me your name or what you do. We have seen your tough exterior, but who are you at your core and what is your basic philosophy and worldview?

DT: I am a person who grew up with two wonderful parents and a wonderful family and a person who has done well in life. I went to great schools. Wharton School, a lot of great places. Education is very important. I think I understand education. I think I can straighten out our mess in education. And I’m a person who has, to a certain extent, redefined where I should be. I started off in Brooklyn and Queens and I wasn’t supposed to come to Manhattan. My father didn’t want to go to Manhattan for me, and I came to Manhattan and I have done a great job in Manhattan. And then I wrote a best-seller and I wrote numerous best-sellers. I wrote ‘The Art of the Deal’ and numerous other books. Some were number one best-sellers. I guess ‘The Art of the Deal’ is the best-selling business book of all time. I had a TV show called ‘The Apprentice’ and it’s one of the most successful reality shows in the history of television. And now I’m doing something else.

He doesn’t even pretend that there’s anything to him other than worshiping himself. There’s no there there, just ego. I know this is not exactly news, but it still astonishes me that he can’t even fake it.

There’s idiocy, non sequiturs, and sloganeering throughout. But here is the most glorious part:

CT: Every president has called upon God at some point. Lincoln spoke of not being able to hold the office of the presidency without spending time on his knees. You have confessed that you are a Christian …

DT: And I have also won much evangelical support.

CT: Yes, I know that. You have said you never felt the need to ask for God’s forgiveness, and yet repentance for one’s sins is a precondition to salvation. I ask you the question Jesus asked of Peter: Who do you say He is?

DT: I will be asking for forgiveness, but hopefully I won’t have to be asking for much forgiveness. As you know, I am Presbyterian and Protestant. I’ve had great relationships and developed even greater relationships with ministers. We have tremendous support from the clergy. I think I will be doing very well during the election with evangelicals and with Christians. In the Middle East — and this is prior to the migration — you had almost no chance of coming into the United States. Christians from Syria, of which there were many, many of their heads … chopped off. If you were a Muslim from Syria, it was one of the easiest places to come in (to the U.S.). I thought that was deplorable. I’m going to treat my religion, which is Christian, with great respect and care.

CT: Who do you say Jesus is?

DT: Jesus to me is somebody I can think about for security and confidence. Somebody I can revere in terms of bravery and in terms of courage and, because I consider the Christian religion so important, somebody I can totally rely on in my own mind.

Whole thing here. I hope Jerry Falwell Jr. and Mike Huckabee are proud of themselves.

The prospect of four years of this stuff. Just think about it.

Epic High Five posted:

Your doubt would be correct

To this day, the picture the image displayed is usually:






The image in spoiler is of an unidentified south American man being tortured in what is likely the late-80's, almost certainly at the behest or training of the CIA

GreyjoyBastard posted:

poo poo, they might have wound up in an altercation with the civilian crowd that had a very fair chance at saving Stevens' life. Didn't work out, but he was not quite dead when they found him.

The video is genuinely heartwarming in many ways. "Holy poo poo, he's alive! Who has a car? We need to get him to the hospital!"

And some random Libyan civilian winds up booking it across town with the American victim of a mission attack to a hospital, where Stevens passed away.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

so are the right wing assholes just making more poo poo up to make him more of a bloody shirt.

Epic High Five posted:

Your doubt would be correct

To this day, the picture the image displayed is usually:






The image in spoiler is of an unidentified south American man being tortured in what is likely the late-80's, almost certainly at the behest or training of the CIA

Octatonic posted:

I mean, yeah, exactly! Men are simply never made to acknowledge women as full humans, just as whites are never made to to acknowledge the subjectivity of non-white people, and so forth. It's infuriating, and the astoundingly gormless lack of perspective has literally driven me to tear my hair out at times. How can someone have so little imagination?

Rick_Hunter posted:

quote:

Hillary Clinton just secured the Democratic nomination, making her the first female presidential nominee for a major party, and once and for all proving that a rich, powerful, well connected, liberal woman married to a former president, who has been groomed by a team of political professionals for the past 25 years, can achieve great things.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

so do they just make poo poo up, he go hosed up, but he was never raped and tortured, if he had been, you bet it would have been on every news channel ever. then he died of burns and smoke inhalation, a bunch Libyan tried to save him. so are the right wing assholes just making more poo poo up to make him more of a bloody shirt.

this.

twistedmentat posted:

Holy poo poo, that is literally one of the worst thing's I've seen. There is literally no level right wing shitheads will stoop to push "Obama is bad".

Epic High Five posted:

Correct, they literally just make poo poo up if it reinforces the echo chamber and gets forwarded along. They're way down the hate spiral and disengaged from reality. Those Libyans are all terrorists who danced with glee as they watched him get tortured and raped for 7 hours and this is how it had to go because that's how I know mudslimes all operate. No amount of evidence to the contrary will make an impact, which is where the loud and frequent shaming comes in.

GIS that image and you'll find both that it was released shortly after the event, and has been rebranded as an attack on Clinton 2016.


Seeing it gets my normally chill blood boiling a bit but I figured a) I'm about the hit the gym so whatever, that's good and b) there may be some kind souls here who haven't seen it who must be shown the black heart of the human spirit

twistedmentat posted:

Is poo poo like that that makes me think either your just evil or a moron if you are a conservative because that poo poo it not only accepted, but also encouraged.

Epic High Five posted:

? I'm a frothing liberal but I've got a few Facebook friends of the far right whackadoo persuasion that I keep around as a sort of barometer of how the other side is thinking, which is where I get hot scoops like this.

In a lot of ways it's like the stories people make up about how wild and far from God they were before being born again. Just make up whatever crazy poo poo you want and everybody will believe it, because they don't want their own poo poo investigated

Bast Relief posted:

I mean, my boyfriend's dumb rear end childhood friends still can't understand that my Facebook page is actually, you know, mine, and that they aren't talking to their bro there. Dudes, he ain't gonna see your message and it creeps me out when you talk about me in the third person on my own page. They're all middle aged men who have "arrived" through "hard work". Even the nice ones are infuriating. They'll even respond to my posts by addressing my boyfriend. So yeah, there's no way anything is going to sink in with people like this. They can only understand themselves and their experiences.

VitalSigns posted:

This cracks me up: it's not an achievement to rise from a middle-lass family to become the first female major party nominee because you along the way you became rich and picked up political experience and connections.

Come on Hillary, why didn't you waltz out of the forest after having been raised by wolves with nothing to your name but a squirrel-skin pelt and a poisoned flint speartip, and swagger into the White House the next day after winning the hearts of the American people with a trending YouTube video of yelps and grunts?

That's how a real man would have done it. But weakwilled women have to rely on money and political experience and name recognition and donor networks pfffffft.

Crabtree posted:

People will never stop believing in the lie of the self-made man. And that's why somehow Trump, a man that has lived off the convenience of his name, status and money that his father archived for him is somehow more legitimate than the woman that has been in politics for several decades, even though she was the wife of a former president. Its nepotism versus nepotism, but at least one of them actually worked on something other than a con.