|
Pinterest Mom posted:Bernie would need to win 1840% of DC's delegates to overtake Hillary's lead. 
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
PleasureKevin posted:there are still 2.6 million uncounted ballots in California. 1 million more have been invalidated. That's kind of a lot since Trump+Clinton+Sanders is somewhere around 5m altogether. Why the invalidation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:I'm sorry that supporters in the opposing political camp to yours got worked up and levied unfair criticisms at you. It tends to happen as people take their personal political leanings seriously and can easily fall into team-based 'us vs them' mentalities. Hopefully now that the primary is mostly wrapped up we can instead focus on the values we share and work on moving the country forwards. No hard feelings. Not a Step posted:lol if you dont identify with a tribe and unthinkingly hate all outsiders Time to buck up and identify with the Democratic Party tribe. Come on, you'll have fun at the Two Minute Hate against Donald. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:I'm sorry that supporters in the opposing political camp to yours got worked up and levied unfair criticisms at you. It tends to happen as people take their personal political leanings seriously and can easily fall into team-based 'us vs them' mentalities. Hopefully now that the primary is mostly wrapped up we can instead focus on the values we share and work on moving the country forwards. No hard feelings. Thanks, this was a surprisingly sincere-sounding post and I appreciate it! I'm not entirely sure what my vote will be come November, though; I'll have to see what the GE campaigns look like, who the running-mate is, what the platform is, etc. As you may be able to tell from my avatar, I do not live in a swing state, so the pressure isn't as high for me as it may be for some others. Put plainly, if HRC manages to lose Massachusetts -- which not only is the bluest state in existence but which she also won in the primaries -- she has more problems than choosy Bernie-bros.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
Not a Step posted:Time to buck up and identify with the Democratic Party tribe. Come on, you'll have fun at the Two Minute Hate against Donald. This but additional lol if you can't dynamically resize/reallocate your affiliations based on situation. where's that cartoon of all the politicians yelling at each other saying horrendous things then the second the bell rings and the cameras turn off they're all shaking hands and asking if they want to grab lunch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:47
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:This but additional lol if you can't dynamically resize/reallocate your affiliations based on situation. Dynamically walking the gently caress away from what the D. leadership has decided their party stands for is pretty cool too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:This but additional lol if you can't dynamically resize/reallocate your affiliations based on situation. I believe what I believe and if I think someone's going to work against those beliefs in practice I'm not going to support them. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:52
|
|
|
NumberLast posted:I believe what I believe and if I think someone's going to work against those beliefs in practice I'm not going to support them. even if you're not with her, she's still with you 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Cephalocidal posted:Dynamically walking the gently caress away from what the D. leadership has decided their party stands for is pretty cool too. This is your right but I feel like this is probably your first time participating and walking away because you didn't get what you wanted isn't how progress is made. Instead you should be doubling down on your efforts to shift the party if you truly stand by your beliefs. Get more involved, not less.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:This is your right but I feel like this is probably your first time participating and walking away because you didn't get what you wanted isn't how progress is made. Instead you should be doubling down on your efforts to shift the party if you truly stand by your beliefs. Get more involved, not less. I mean, there isn't really time to do this before this election We tried and it didn't work
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
loquacius posted:I mean, there isn't really time to do this before this election help progressive congressional and senate and state senate candidates win. run for local office.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
loquacius posted:I mean, there isn't really time to do this before this election Getting involved at the presidential level is the most useless thing you can do for progressive politics short of sitting on your rear end. Local races and state races, where there are fewer resources to go around and each additional volunteer or donation has a much larger impact, is where people should be focusing their effort. And hey, while you do it, you build cred with the establishment and shift the party your way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:This is your right but I feel like this is probably your first time participating and walking away because you didn't get what you wanted isn't how progress is made. Instead you should be doubling down on your efforts to shift the party if you truly stand by your beliefs. Get more involved, not less. This comes back to the overwhelming feeling that we're being pushed out of the party. As I said, it's not that Bernie lost, it's how his supporters are now being treated. It was a primary win - it seems to me that should be taken as a "Yes, more people supported me, but this person got a lot of support so part of my party's base likes what my opponent said/did and need to be accounted for." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen anything like that other than a few token gestures. Of course I'm going to reserve full judgement on that until the GE starts in earnest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
loquacius posted:I mean, there isn't really time to do this before this election Ok? You know what you call a movement that throws up its hands and gives up the first time it doesn't win the presidential election or get everything it wanted? A dead movement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
it's a bummer knowing that a lot of the first wave of any movement to build independent workers' power in this country is gonna be made up of these people
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:I feel like this is probably your first time participating You could always ask, instead of making assumptions before talking down to him. Just a thought.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
NumberLast posted:This comes back to the overwhelming feeling that we're being pushed out of the party. As I said, it's not that Bernie lost, it's how his supporters are now being treated. It was a primary win - it seems to me that should be taken as a "Yes, more people supported me, but this person got a lot of support so part of my party's base likes what my opponent said/did and need to be accounted for." Everybody's saying the right words about Bernie energizing people and they being welcome in the Democratic party. What concrete steps do you want?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
NumberLast posted:This comes back to the overwhelming feeling that we're being pushed out of the party. As I said, it's not that Bernie lost, it's how his supporters are now being treated. It was a primary win - it seems to me that's taken as a "Yes, more people supported me, but this person got a lot of support so part of my party's base likes what they like and need to be accounted for." If you sincerely believe that the GOP and DNC are indistinguishable you're either not paying attention or so far gone there's nothing either party could do to appease you. Take what you can and try again next election.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
And possibly accepting that screaming fraud perhaps doesnt endear you to the party that won a whole lot. The majority of sanders supporters turned over a new leaf easily enough as it seems they understand the stakes of the general election. The rest dont matter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Everybody's saying the right words about Bernie energizing people and they being welcome in the Democratic party. What concrete steps do you want? the democratic party to not be just slightly different republicans? Necc0 posted:If you sincerely believe that the GOP and DNC are indistinguishable you're either not paying attention or so far gone there's nothing either party could do to appease you. Take what you can and try again next election. Sure there are some fundamental differences sure, but the tactics, partisanship and chasing of corporate money seem preeetty similar. TehRedWheelbarrow has issued a correction as of 18:05 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:even if you're not with her, she's still with you That's a funny way of describing NSA surveillance
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:Ok? You know what you call a movement that throws up its hands and gives up the first time it doesn't win the presidential election or get everything it wanted? Your post was good advice in the general sense but it wasn't really an answer to "I can't support this current party leadership that does not share my values", that's all We tried to put up one that did and it, well, didn't take (other people responding to my post were basically rehashing the post I was responding to, so same criticism applies there)
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:If you sincerely believe that the GOP and DNC are indistinguishable you're either not paying attention or so far gone there's nothing either party could do to appease you. Take what you can and try again next election. I don't think they're ideologically indistinguishable. I do think they're practically very, very similar. Pinterest Mom posted:Everybody's saying the right words about Bernie energizing people and they being welcome in the Democratic party. What concrete steps do you want? "You did a good job" is not what I want. I'm not sure what concrete steps I want to see. It's why I'm reserving my judgement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
I like that we're only a page in and already the cracks are starting to show in the charm offensive. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Mr. Horrible posted:You could always ask, instead of making assumptions before talking down to him. Just a thought. I wasn't. Maybe you should stop assuming people are talking down to you?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
SneakyFrog posted:the democratic party to not be just slightly different republicans? lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:I wasn't. Maybe you should stop assuming people are talking down to you? no offense but necco wafers are gross candies do they even still make them
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
Classic Comrade posted:no offense but necco wafers are gross candies Yep and they still taste like toothpaste
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:This is your right but I feel like this is probably your first time participating and walking away because you didn't get what you wanted isn't how progress is made. Instead you should be doubling down on your efforts to shift the party if you truly stand by your beliefs. Get more involved, not less. I've been willing to compromise before, but the party is accelerating away from my positions now. Fighting for my beliefs and then meeting in the middle just means losing ground for me, and I'm losing more and more each time. I've voted in every presidential and off-year election since 2000. I donate, I get the annoying spammy "OK DONATE MORE PLZ" emails. I've been involved. I'm just done rewarding not-as-lovely behavior.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
Cephalocidal posted:I've been willing to compromise before, but the party is accelerating away from my positions now. Fighting for my beliefs and then meeting in the middle just means losing ground for me, and I'm losing more and more each time. The only way the Democratic party is accelerating away from your positions is if you're a conservative. The Dems have been moving to the left at pretty high speed by any objective measure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
Also to everyone: Don't be ridiculous. Just because I might not support or even actively work against Clinton doesn't mean I'm not going to support (and haven't been supporting) down-ticket progressives.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
bird cooch posted:The majority of sanders supporters turned over a new leaf easily enough as it seems they understand the stakes of the general election. This is an important thing to keep in mind -- I'm getting the distinct impression when talking to people in this forum and elsewhere, when they determine that I am a Bernie supporter, that they have built up this image in their head of what a Bernie supporter is and are fighting against it (see: racist wife-beating beer-bonging fratboy) instead of giving me the same benefit-of-the-doubt they'd give anyone else The vast majority of Bernie voters are just people who like his populist message more than HRC's corporatist one but are still firm Dem voters, and who oppose Trump above all else (much like Sanders himself)
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Are all of the "maybe instead of not immediately pledging loyalty to Clinton you should support local progressives, widdle babby  " people aware that Sanders did in fact endorse several downticket progressivesbecause he did and he funded some of their campaigns with a single email
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
loquacius posted:Your post was good advice in the general sense but it wasn't really an answer to "I can't support this current party leadership that does not share my values", that's all If you search I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a lot of common ground with the DNC. There's a reason Bernie decided to join them in the first place. If you can't then that's fine to withhold you vote. Just be sure to try again to shift the DNC the next time you get an opportunity to do so. If you give up then the people who say you don't matter will be correct.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:The only way the Democratic party is accelerating away from your positions is if you're a conservative. The Dems have been moving to the left at pretty high speed by any objective measure. All I see are drone strikes, pro-censorship laws and "BOOTSTRAPS."
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
NumberLast posted:All I see are drone strikes, pro-censorship laws and "BOOTSTRAPS." You put quotes around bootstraps and I'm not sure which democrat you're quoting
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
Necc0 posted:If you search I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a lot of common ground with the DNC. There's a reason Bernie decided to join them in the first place. lol at people who ever give up on politics
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
loquacius posted:Are all of the "maybe instead of not immediately pledging loyalty to Clinton you should support local progressives, widdle babby  B-b-but those don't count because they're primarying real Democrats!
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
giving up on electoral politics isn't the same as giving up on politics imo
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:11
|
|