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I should probably make a different color for the flagship, that way mission objectives (pods included) are always yellow. I'm also gonna make the extraction point a bit more readable once I can get out of this controller screwiness.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:19
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Okay.. Okay... THIS time, I'll take the advice to order ships to kill the pods for me while I fly around scanning containers. ...There, I've scanned all the containers, now to lea-what the gently caress both pods are still alive. I ordered a fighter and three destroyers to kill those things... Well, I still have two destroyers left... One destroyer left... *Flies back to kill the pods himself, fucks off while keeping remaining destroyer between self and flagship* Harbinger Mission complete! Ships AI seem much better at handling things when it comes to sticking near eachother or defending something. But ordering them to accomplish even the most basic of tasks on their own seems to be a complete no go in my experience. "Okay fighter, kill these four civilian ships to prevent that whole 'escaping ships warning the enemy' deal, then pop the drones on the way back. This way I can swing by the cargo containers for the bonus objective then come back to help finish off the mission targets. Can you handle that?... Oh, turns our you can't, even after I equipped us with better thrusters, you took 18 years to catch up with slow moving unarmed targets and are so far away, you are BEHIND the flagship" EDIT: I've found that dying I can take calmly and blame myself. My entire source of frustrations are down to personally targeting specific things personally in a practical manner (ordering every fighter towards a cargo container and canceling every order I've given is no substitute)... And the apparent inability of my veteran ships to do anything but watch eachother's backs, up to and including "Please shoot these immobile, unarmed objects for me". Straight up mission completion goes smoothly so far, even on Harbinger. Things turn towards the awkward when I'm trying to get side objectives done at the same time before the flagship rams a torpedo up my rear end. All down to the interface/facings/Wing AI inability to break cargo containers with a destroyer while me and the rest fight the nearby ships. Section Z fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 08:42
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Helter Skelter posted:E: I'm tempted to wipe my save (again) and record a full beginning-to-end Harbinger run in VR. Is that something anyone would actually be interested in watching? I generally find that video filmed with VR isn't very compelling. You get every little head movement, on a flat screen, with half the resolution. It might just be me though.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:54
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I honestly didn't have those frustrations. Once I had the torpedoes for destroyers and later had the frigate, I'd order them to tackle specific needs and re-task them the moment they finished. Leaving them to their own devices seems almost entirely pointless given how much damage they can put out, and even the fighters can be relatively trusted with bomb orders or for killing unshielded destroyers or strike craft. Tanhauser is a really good example of the need to control and rely on your fleet, if Kairo can make every Harbinger mission as tight and demanding as that it'd be awesome. Without solid fleet command on Tanhauser you're almost completely screwed, though I'd like to see someone try and do all four transports themselves. Orv fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 09:00
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Orv posted:I honestly didn't have those frustrations. Once I had the torpedoes for destroyers and later the frigate, I'd order them to tackle specific needs and re-task them the moment they finished. Leaving them to their own devices seems almost entirely pointless given how much damage they can put out, and even the fighters can be relatively trusted with bomb orders or for killing unshielded destroyers or strike craft. So the "inefficient against hull" Destroyer torpedos, are actually MORE effective at taking out stationary targets than the autocannons?  I've been keeping them with the Autocannons because flak drones popping up and the previously mentioned "These things specifically say they are worse at hull damage"Then again, I have some universally horrible luck with AI and RNG in all games. I put the cooling intake on fighters and I still look back to the tactical screen to see they have failed to pursue and kill unarmed civilians without having to first chase them all the way across the map until they escape anyways  And if I put Omniflak on my Destroyers, they still get their poo poo pushed in by missile type weapons, etc."What's killing all my destroyers so fast on "Cleric" Harbinger? It can't be the torpedoes coming in from halfway across the map while I pop heavy fighters, because I gave them omniflak AND flak drones... Right?... Oh for Christ sake." Main objective can still be completed on Harbinger readily enough even then. But doing that AND taking out the sentry guns is a bit tricky when shields+omni flak+flak drones slapped onto my Destroyers... Well, still just has them wrecked by torpedoes with my luck. EDIT: Learned the earlier suggestion that "fighter group target will target it for you too" does gently caress all trying to target subsystems. "I want to target that railgun... Okay, clicking it on the tact view doesn't work. Cycling 'next subsystem' doesn't work. I would REALLY love to be able to target this thing with my torpedo personally. Instead of resorting to hopping into another fighter entirely so I can order the one I was just in to shoot it with a torpedo" In fact for some reason, Target subsystem makes me target a heavy fighter "Target engine, no. Target bridge, no. Next subsystem... Heavy fighter? What? Oh I have to retarget the heavy frigate entirely now"
Section Z fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 09:07
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This game with a VR headset is the poo poo. Thanks, I love the art direction, I love the design of the ships, very sleek. I just boot the game and stare at the stuff in front of me.  Very very nice, my hat is off to you sirs. May I ask what middleware you used in building this?
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Jun 10, 2016 09:09
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Section Z posted:So the "inefficient against hull" Destroyer torpedos, are actually MORE effective at taking out stationary targets than the autocannons? They're markedly worse against hull than the cannons, but they're longer range, they fire more of them and the shields on rebel ships are infinitely more trouble than the tiny amount of hull ships in this game have. And they still do plenty vs hull. Targets like containers, sentries and pods are my job, my destroyers wipe out other destroyers and bigger.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:13
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Orv posted:They're markedly worse against hull than the cannons, but they're longer range, they fire more of them and the shields on rebel ships are infinitely more trouble than the tiny amount of hull ships in this game have. Targets like containers, sentries and pods are my job, my destroyers wipe out other destroyers and bigger.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:14
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pun pundit posted:I generally find that video filmed with VR isn't very compelling. You get every little head movement, on a flat screen, with half the resolution. It might just be me though. Orv posted:Tanhauser is a really good example of the need to control and rely on your fleet, if Kairo can make every Harbinger mission as tight and demanding as that it'd be awesome. Without solid fleet command on Tanhauser you're almost completely screwed, though I'd like to see someone try and do all four transports themselves.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:16
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Orv posted:Tanhauser is a really good example of the need to control and rely on your fleet, if Kairo can make every Harbinger mission as tight and demanding as that it'd be awesome. Without solid fleet command on Tanhauser you're almost completely screwed, though I'd like to see someone try and do all four transports themselves.  It's doable but you need to gap drive and kill right side very fast, gap drive to left side and kill transports, then finish off the bonuses (since they don't seem to jump out).
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Jun 10, 2016 09:23
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So I've discovered why ordering my destroyers to target the railguns on enemy heavy frigates has not seemed to be helping. They don't do anything but verbally acknowledge the order  I just started up the mission where you go after the Longrifle guy. "Okay, set fighter to defend me. Order destroyers to attack the railgun, and I shall follow them to the bonus target... soon as they move... *orders it a second time. Orders it a 3rd time.* Well, maybe if I order them to just attack the ship in GENERAL-oh wow look at that they've started moving." I wonder it this means those times I've ordered my fighters to use heavy weapons on it, they never did? I know I can't target the railguns personally, after all. Cycling subsystems won't do it, and I've even had it decide to target a nearby fighter instead when using next subsystem on ships with railguns (Which also means I need to retarget the big ship entirely)  EDIT: Oh wow these wingmates fight SO much better when I'm giving them orders they will actually follow (at least, when I ensure we stick together. Still can't trust them to do anything on their own )EDIT Two: And now to play another earlier mission on Harbinger!... Oh turns out while ordering my destroyers to guard the "protect this" ship worked when I played on Warlord 5 minutes ago, now they've decided to just sit around where they spawned while the tack map claims they are currently ordered to defend it  loving hell. This explains why it took me multiple tries to beat this even on the lowest difficulty. I turn my back for one second on my wingmates and they start sleeping on the job. "Copy, defending your target! You gullible dumbass" Maybe I'm missclicking and ordering their engines to defend things? What? I don't loving know. All I know is that it seems every time I turn around, all my orders amount to is my ships saying "Sure thing boss!" and then doing gently caress all. When they actually DO obey orders, things work out great! Shame I can't work out how to make them actually follow orders consistently  Okay guys, Sanguine field. From the top. I'm watching you, you mother fuckers, so when I tell you to defend the objective, loving do it this time or I'm going to loving kill you myself before I hit restart mission.
Section Z fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 09:49
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 Kairo died, I was sad  Oh well, he was going to die soon anyway! Aesis fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 09:55
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Orv posted:I honestly didn't have those frustrations. Once I had the torpedoes for destroyers and later had the frigate, I'd order them to tackle specific needs and re-task them the moment they finished. Leaving them to their own devices seems almost entirely pointless given how much damage they can put out, and even the fighters can be relatively trusted with bomb orders or for killing unshielded destroyers or strike craft. Doing all four is easy with the gap drive, and also easy without if you target the engines to stop the shielded two jumping. The fleet is weak and useless at anything but drawing incoming fire.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:33
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Both of my successes out of my four tries I never went anywhere near the left transports, the fleet took care of them easily. 
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Jun 10, 2016 12:34
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Friendly fighters can take out one and the frigate can take the other, but destroyers are so bad and cant kill anything reliably. I just had my fighters kamikaze the bonus objectives and handled everything else myself.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:39
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I'm telling you, torpedoes.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:41
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Chained orders helps too. It's weird how the first instinct of AI fighters is to head straight back to you right after taking out their assigned target.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:56
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So from what I understand this is now a series of mission that you fly? What is the replayvalue?
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Jun 10, 2016 13:00
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Not a ton honestly. There will be a wave clear mode before it launches fully. The current missions are tight, fairly linear and a lot of fun but there's not a ton of reasons to run them more than two or three times, they just aren't different enough per run and the low difficulties are downright sparse. Sorry Kairo.
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Jun 10, 2016 13:16
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Orv posted:Not a ton honestly. There will be a wave clear mode before it launches fully. The current missions are tight, fairly linear and a lot of fun but there's not a ton of reasons to run them more than two or three times, they just aren't different enough per run and the low difficulties are downright sparse. Sorry Kairo. Which is a shame I would have totally enjoyed it in Sandbox with fleet building. RIP
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Jun 10, 2016 13:27
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Found a bug I hadn't seen mentioned in the thread yet. I think I double dipped on favor rewards. I completed The Quartermaster on Invader and Warlord, and was doing it on Harbinger. Managed to complete the bonus objective, but the Traitor Lord escaped and I failed the mission, after which I escaped. But, when I returned to the map screen, I saw that I had been awarded the favor for completing the bonus without having cleared the mission. Did the mission again, successfully this time, and once again got the same favor reward. Edit: Just managed to repro the bug on The Builder, too. Got the rewards for clearing Invader and Warlord Difficult bonuses twice, by completing the bonus objective and then failing the mission and warping out. Valcione fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 13:47
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Section Z posted:Bugs This all sounds weird. I believe you but I wonder if I broke something. I'll take a look! Edit: Found destroyer vs sentry bug (they wouldn't recognize it as a target when giving an order), fixed for next build. Looking at the others. quote:EDIT Two: And now to play another earlier mission on Harbinger!... Oh turns out while ordering my destroyers to guard the "protect this" ship worked when I played on Warlord 5 minutes ago, now they've decided to just sit around where they spawned while the tack map claims they are currently ordered to defend it Which map? With these other ones, did you notice specific relationships with the orders, like the original sentry vs destroyer? Edit 2: Ok, I fixed a bunch of these. As soon as you were talking about these symptoms I knew what happened. Every once in a while my targeting matrix (who can attack what with what weapon) gets blown away. Also, while trying to get ships like frigates to stick closer to defensive targets, I accidentally limited their vision range. The fighters were also being SUPER careful about firing heavy weapons. Too careful. That's fixed now too. Thanks, and sorry for the frustration. Kairo fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 15:23
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Katsuma posted:Found a bug I hadn't seen mentioned in the thread yet. I think I double dipped on favor rewards. I completed The Quartermaster on Invader and Warlord, and was doing it on Harbinger. Managed to complete the bonus objective, but the Traitor Lord escaped and I failed the mission, after which I escaped. But, when I returned to the map screen, I saw that I had been awarded the favor for completing the bonus without having cleared the mission. Did the mission again, successfully this time, and once again got the same favor reward. I was just about to post this. I came across it this morning. I think it just needs a check to see if you successfully completed the main objective before awarding you points for a completed bonus.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:36
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Turmoil posted:I was just about to post this. I came across it this morning. Katsuma posted:Found a bug I hadn't seen mentioned in the thread yet. I think I double dipped on favor rewards. I completed The Quartermaster on Invader and Warlord, and was doing it on Harbinger. Managed to complete the bonus objective, but the Traitor Lord escaped and I failed the mission, after which I escaped. But, when I returned to the map screen, I saw that I had been awarded the favor for completing the bonus without having cleared the mission. Did the mission again, successfully this time, and once again got the same favor reward. Looking at this! Thanks for the heads up, and the steps! Edit -- found it, and it's in the current build, along with a bunch of AI fixes SectionZ brought up! Kairo fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 16:34
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Kairo posted:Looking at this! Thanks for the heads up, and the steps! Kairo, you are a bloody champion, mate. You made an incredibly awesome game, and you're busting your rear end to make sure everyone has the best experience possible with it. Nobody can doubt that this was a labor of love for you, and I'm super impressed with your dedication. Money well spent. Just don't burn yourself out with this post-release scramble, and remember to relax sometime! I don't think anybody in this thread would mind if you took the weekend off.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:20
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Don't let all that criticism about how this wasn't the dream space roguelike no more get you down. Just building this game is a massive accomplishment, especially as a 1 man show. though a basic in-game level editor would be sweet.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:02
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RangerKarl posted:Don't let all that criticism about how this wasn't the dream space roguelike no more get you down. Just building this game is a massive accomplishment, especially as a 1 man show. A level editor would pretty much get rid of the problem of the game not having enough content too!
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Jun 10, 2016 18:22
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Probably the most annoying part for Kairo is that he's gonna have to spend a few days wrapping up bugs before he can even think about endgame content.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:54
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General Battuta posted:Probably the most annoying part for Kairo is that he's gonna have to spend a few days wrapping up bugs before he can even think about endgame content. Yeah, it's really annoying, and a lot of it is joysticks. Never again.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:56
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Goddamn space nerds and their goddamn joysticks.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:27
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*hides his CH HOTAS set, 2 PS3 controllers and a 360 pad* YEAH drat SPACE CADETS
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Jun 10, 2016 19:34
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It's one thing to be one of the rare individuals that own a full HOTAS setup, but it's another entirely to be That Guy that must comment on every Enemy Starfighter article online about how excluded you feel by this game not directly catering to your incredibly niche hardware setup. And there's at least one of Those Guys in every single article on the game now. It's ridiculous. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 20:34
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Yeah being a software dev myself has made me realize over time how completely loving butts hardware compatibility is in any realm, let alone loving game controllers They're worse than printers, and I don't need to tell you how damning a statement that is
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Jun 10, 2016 20:39
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Katsuma posted:Kairo, you are a bloody champion, mate. You made an incredibly awesome game, and you're busting your rear end to make sure everyone has the best experience possible with it. Nobody can doubt that this was a labor of love for you, and I'm super impressed with your dedication. Money well spent. Yeah, this.
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Jun 10, 2016 20:46
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Maybe burn some joysticks on your days off.
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Jun 10, 2016 21:07
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Performing percussive maintenance on decrepit computer hardware is always satisfying I got to do that to some old SGI relics a few weeks ago. Sledgehammers can do some fuckin work I tells ya
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Jun 10, 2016 21:09
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What mission drops the artillery, I've beaten everything so it isn't showing which one
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Jun 10, 2016 21:56
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Dominic White posted:It's one thing to be one of the rare individuals that own a full HOTAS setup, but it's another entirely to be That Guy that must comment on every Enemy Starfighter article online about how excluded you feel by this game not directly catering to your incredibly niche hardware setup. Friggin' prima donnas. Most amusing one I saw was one complaining that his 3 dollars was wasted on buying this game. Left me wondering who exactly gave him such a plum discount seeing as both public outlets have it at 20 USD - 10%. Even the Malaysian store has it pegged at 38 ringgit (that's about 9.50 USD).
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Jun 10, 2016 22:06
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Stormgale posted:What mission drops the artillery, I've beaten everything so it isn't showing which one Tannhauser. If you've already beaten it, it probably doesn't show the reward right now.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:31
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Orv posted:I'm telling you, torpedoes. I've switched to torpedoes like you suggested but those only help if my ships actually do anything but verbally acknowledge my orders Kairo posted:This all sounds weird. I believe you but I wonder if I broke something. I'll take a look! I'm fairly certain that some of the time, it's the AI getting preoccupied trying to swat a couple fighters rather than stay anywhere near their defend target, and other such snags. I'll list my experiences from last night in case any of that points out something further. I am assuming there is/was something particularly wonky with enemy ship railguns in general RE; player and AI targeting. Considering I could get repeatable instances of "Target subsystem, that's the engines. Target subsystem, that's the bridge. Target subsystem... That's a fighter. What the gently caress. Hold on I need to retarget the heavy frigate entirely." Right now though, I can't even manage to select their railguns from the tactical map (Speaking of which, a subsystem cycle button on the tac map would be amazing. Considering how often I try to target engines or bridge and end up moving to a nearby drone or something instead).Now, lets see. Last night basically anything with a railgun mounted ship had all kinds of gently caress ups. It was "The Physician" that really drove it home, thanks to my deciding to follow after my destroyers rather than wait for them to catch up then wonder why they were so useless. So I got to observe them do absolutly nothing (I think they may have slightly twitched once?) every time I ordered them repeatedly to attack the railgun. but once I just ordered them to attack the ship itself, they all started moving (And did a lovely job. My first Warlord mission with zero ally casualties). Defense wise, my primary standout "Oh my god, really?" was Cartographer. I was wondering why it took so many tries to not have my escort objective die the first time through, and just cleared it on lowest difficulty the first time. Went back, cleared it fast and fine on Warlord. Then in my Harbinger attempts, realized that the transport ship was getting it's poo poo pushed in multiple times while the destroyers hung around the start of the map because ??? One time I was fairly certain they just got highly distracted by a lone fighter (three destroyers armed with shields/flak drones. Torpedoes, and omni flak = uselessly chase a stray fighter I forgot to kill?). But there were also times where nothing seemed to be anywhere near them but they just weren't following the transport at all when I popped open the map later. I have some  about how often I may have accidentally gave orders to the ENGINES of my destroyers, but plenty enough seems to go wrong (be it either my notoriously bad luck with RNG and AI, or actual bugs) when I ensure I am selecting the destroyers themselves.Entirely unrelated. When I was replaying the cleric a bunch last night to try and beat it on Harbinger. Only two of the three destroyers allowed me to give them orders, the one I wasn't allowed to order being a mile away behind the rest of us on spawn. Popping the game open right now, I'm allowed to give orders to all three... But one of them still spawns far behind us. Again, this game is super sweet. All of my frustrations are related to fumbling around for side targets myself, and the antics of my attempts at giving orders (Be it them seemingly just acknowledging them and gently caress all else. Or thruster upgrade equipped fighters being a coinflip between cleanly murdering every civilian and returning to me, or failing and being on the opposite side of the map when I Checkup on them). Just straight up dying or failing a mission normally is fine.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:18
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