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Brought To You By posted:That is not supported anywhere in this fight. Chrollo made a break for the crowd, used two black voice controlled to distract Hisoka while he started making clones. It's not a lengthy process and going off this page he just ran through the rows tagging people on the back and making clones. Note how everyone is surprised to suddenly have a clone next to them. And since Chrollo spends most of the fight hiding in the audience and we know some of those clones were kept persistent thanks to Sun/Moon it's entirely plausible that he made that vast army over the course of the fight. This count alone is 30 by Hisoka's reckoning and that couldn't have been more than a minute between Chrollo disappearing and the clones attacking. Hisoka said there should be less copies then he thought because of Sun and Moon. Sun and Moon requires Chrollo to touch something for 4 or so seconds before their explosion is enough to kill things around them. The presence of all the puppets lots of them with sun and moon to prevent them from fading, means he filled the audience with puppets prior to the fight. He likley created more and more puppets through out the fight to make Hisoka think he had not already filled the area with them. NecroMonster posted:It's also possible that one of the antenna was a fake made with gallery, so Chrollo could fake "having" the power while he wasn't using it. This can't be done. One of Gallery Fake's limitations is that it can't copy things infused with Nen. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 08:01
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You're going to have to forgive me for forgetting that, it's been... forever.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:08
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NecroMonster posted:You're going to have to forgive me for forgetting that, it's been... forever. Yeah I know. I only just recently remembered it myself.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:21
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i thought hisoka did some wild bending rubber poo poo on machi with the poses and killed her outright because theres only 10 spiders left
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Jun 10, 2016 11:27
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drjuggalo posted:i thought hisoka did some wild bending rubber poo poo on machi with the poses and killed her outright because theres only 10 spiders left No, he wanted her to be the messenger. It's possible he just doesn't plan to kill her in particular.
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Jun 10, 2016 11:48
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:No, he wanted her to be the messenger. It's possible he just doesn't plan to kill her in particular. did hisoka lay a spider low off screen or was there only 12 active spider members i thought there was 13 edit: does hisoka consider machi locked up like she is a downed spider?
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Jun 10, 2016 11:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Hisoka said there should be less copies then he thought because of Sun and Moon. Sun and Moon requires Chrollo to touch something for 4 or so seconds before their explosion is enough to kill things around them. The presence of all the puppets lots of them with sun and moon to prevent them from fading, means he filled the audience with puppets prior to the fight. He likley created more and more puppets through out the fight to make Hisoka think he had not already filled the area with them. He planned ahead for sure, but I don't think he went that far for his plan.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:04
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drjuggalo posted:did hisoka lay a spider low off screen or was there only 12 active spider members i thought there was 13 The Spiders still consider Hisoka to be a member, just a disobedient one. It's not the sort of group to kick someone out just because they betrayed them. So they never replaced him and he only has to kill the other 12.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:55
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MonsterEnvy posted:
Is it that it can't copy things infused with nen, or that it can't copy the nen in them? After all, they were able to copy everything at the auction, and high-value items tend to have nen infused in them.
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Jun 10, 2016 16:02
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looks like the only guy who could beat murder d luffy was that one kid who made his power "I get all the powers" some things never change
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Jun 10, 2016 16:03
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I never once doubted the powers of Bungee Gum.
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Jun 10, 2016 16:29
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Is this the first time Hisoka's used non-card-suit symbols in his dialogue?
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Jun 10, 2016 17:09
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Brought To You By posted:I think since Kortupi, Shalnark, and Machi were accompanying Chrollo it's safe to say he was borrowing all their abilities. He just didn't, or overutilize Machi's ability. Guys, maybe he just stuck a fishing line to the antenna. Not everything has to be nen.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:28
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Begemot posted:The Spiders still consider Hisoka to be a member, just a disobedient one. It's not the sort of group to kick someone out just because they betrayed them. So they never replaced him and he only has to kill the other 12. Chrollo at least doesn't consider him one of the Spiders or else he'd be ultra dead.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:21
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Begemot posted:The Spiders still consider Hisoka to be a member, just a disobedient one. It's not the sort of group to kick someone out just because they betrayed them. So they never replaced him and he only has to kill the other 12. Kalluto is explicitly his replacement, so they probably don't consider him a member anymore. Tunicate posted:Is it that it can't copy things infused with nen, or that it can't copy the nen in them? I think it's the latter, it could copy Greed Island cards but the copies couldn't transform.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:54
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Maybe he just isn't counting Chrollo? If he assumes that they have filled all the vacancies, then 12-2=10. He definitely is not counting himself in their number, because he was told on Greed Island about his replacement though he never actually saw Kalluto.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:15
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Begemot posted:The Spiders still consider Hisoka to be a member, just a disobedient one. It's not the sort of group to kick someone out just because they betrayed them. So they never replaced him and he only has to kill the other 12. No he was absolutely replaced. They make a point of it when introducing Kalluto. Serious Frolicking posted:Maybe he just isn't counting Chrollo? If he assumes that they have filled all the vacancies, then 12-2=10. He definitely is not counting himself in their number, because he was told on Greed Island about his replacement though he never actually saw Kalluto. He actually did know her, there's even a scene where he notices her hiding in the trees, she then introduces herself properly to him and Kalluto asks if her Zetsu had some flaw that allowed him to be able to notice, but Machi and Nobunaga say it's just because Hisoka is a freak that he noticed. I'm gonna go with the idea he's just discounting Chrollo for now and when everyone else is wiped out he takes him on again, except this time there's no chance in hell Chrollo will be allowed to stack the deck so heavily in his favour. Asuron fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 19:15
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Also for why he was able to directly interact with him post Kuripica.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:18
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He's thinking ten members, then Chrollo. The whole point of the twelve-legged spider is twelve members and the leader (the head). The metaphor was hammered in pretty hard back in Yorknew. Meanwhile, the last page of this chapter, the spider had two legs pulled off, with ten remaining.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:20
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I finally figured it out. The tools for black voice are physical objects. If they were conjured it would not work. When Chrollo doesn't have black voice out, they don't contain any nen. So he should be able to duplicate them with gallery fake at that point. After they have been made, it isn't like infusing them with nen would destroy them any more than it does the copies. But since they don't have a seal, they would disappear once gallery fake was put away. To copy the format in that fight: Gallery fake bookmarked > copy antennae > use black voice > remove bookmark. There are several ways he could have gone after he disappeared. But if he bookmarked transfer student at that time, then gallery fake would have been removed and he could have freely swapped appearances to thoroughly hide himself. Since his victory was entirely dependent on Hisoka not being able to find him, that seems like a pretty obvious choice. There was only a very brief time during their talk in the arena where Chrollo placed a bookmark but did not have the book visible, but it was there. He bookmarked transfer student with his book away to explain it, then placed another bookmark, and then they talked a little more. We didn't see his right hand in some of those panels, so he had time to secretly duplicate a small object like an antenna. I spent entirely too much time thinking about this nonsense.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:39
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mabels big day posted:I never once doubted the powers of Bungee Gum. I did. Never again.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:42
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And even after all that I got something wrong. During the big dramatic entrance to the stands where their nen are announced, Chrollo has black voice out. But then in the very next panel he appears he is not holding the cell phone or the book. So, immediately before he actually used the mysterious disappearing antenna he had a perfect chance to create it.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:46
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Fake antennae are just as useful as real ones, for the purpose of threatening hisoka.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:52
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Serious Frolicking posted:And even after all that I got something wrong. During the big dramatic entrance to the stands where their nen are announced, Chrollo has black voice out. But then in the very next panel he appears he is not holding the cell phone or the book. So, immediately before he actually used the mysterious disappearing antenna he had a perfect chance to create it. Or maybe he just had some extra antennas he bought at radio shack.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:42
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It's a bit funny because the threat of the antenna was really only in play until Chrollo jumped into the crowd and started puppet-mastering. From the moment he disappeared into the crowd he had already won. Maybe it would have came into play if Hisoka actually figured out where in the crowd Chrollo was, but since that never happened, it was only really the first part of the fight where it ever mattered. I guess it did accomplish Hisoka wasting much precious seconds and brainpower thinking about it though. It's not often that a shounen character proclaims he has a 100% chance of winning and then actually in fact turns out to have a fool-proof plan that nets him an overwhelming win against a stronger opponent. Bisse fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 22:46
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his plan backfired though by giving hisoka a knowing chance of being dead so trying out nen that might revive him
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Jun 10, 2016 22:49
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Jose posted:his plan backfired though by giving hisoka a knowing chance of being dead so trying out nen that might revive him Bisse fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 22:50
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Bisse posted:True, his plan failed to take into the account the properties of rubber and gum. lol but essentially everyone we've seen die due to nen has had it happen fairly suddenly while hisoka knew it was happening and also knew nen could work after death so went for it. him not being brain dead is a bit dumb but otherwise what he did is entirely consistent with the in universe explanation
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Jun 10, 2016 22:53
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trucutru posted:Or maybe he just had some extra antennas he bought at radio shack. The problem is the disappearing antenna, not that there were extras in general. The fact that I couldn't explain what happened to it bothered me much more than it should have.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:54
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I have never read HxH and only just checked up on these chapters to laugh at manga on eternal hiatus the way we all laughed at Guts finally getting of the boat just in time for another hiatus. This poo poo is so good I just caught myself reading nen explanations on hunterpedia. A wiki for a manga I have read a grand total of 5 chapters. Also been trying to figure out the puzzle of what the actual gently caress happened in this fight but don't know nearly enough nerdy nen rules to have a handle beyond 'he had a whole bunch of powers that interacted in crazy ways but could only use them under strict limitations, somehow still turned an entire arena into an ISIS suicide-bomber festival'. So I guess I should read this poo poo, what's the best way to get started from the beginning? Is there a good anime out there or should I go manga style? Bisse fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 23:00
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the newest anime covers almost all of it and is on netlfix afaik
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Jun 10, 2016 23:02
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The 2011 anime is great and covers almost the entire series faithfully.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:05
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Bisse posted:I have never read HxH and only just checked up on these chapters to laugh at manga on eternal hiatus the way we all laughed at Guts finally getting of the boat just in time for another hiatus. Either the new anime, or just the manga. Old anime makes some weird changes, while the new one, outside of a few moments early on, is pretty faithful to the manga.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:05
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I really recommend the 2011 anime. The first arc is a little rough but otherwise it's just an incredibly strong adaptation and honestly superior in a few ways.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:12
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Bisse posted:I have never read HxH and only just checked up on these chapters to laugh at manga on eternal hiatus the way we all laughed at Guts finally getting of the boat just in time for another hiatus. Basically Chrollo's book lets him steal and use the Nen abilities of others but only under crazy specific limitations: a) He needs to have the Nen user both explain and use their power in front of him. b) He needs to record the power's summary in his book within 24 hours of the demonstration, or his victim will be permanently immunized to its ability. c) The victim must be kept alive in order for their power to be retained in his book, and d) The book must be out and open when in use, and he can only use one power at a time. Somehow Chrollo fiddled with his ability to circumvent c and d, to an extent - there's one power that persisted after its user's death, and he could use the ability without the book, and he gained a bookmark that let him juggle two powers simultaneously. All of that, plus the time to prepare and set up the battle arena, allowed him to craft a scenario that took away all of Hisoka's advantages and kept him on his back foot until he made enough mistakes to get "killed." Hisoka excels at one-on-one combat where he can set the pace and play mind games with his opponent until the killing blow, so Chrollo buried him under scores of meat puppets who don't fear death and are impossible to psych out.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:12
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He said that there were new limitations to his ability due to adding the bookmark in, but we never learned what those are. I don't think it was having to explain things before he used them though, because he used the sun and moon seals before he ever mentioned it to Hisoka. Besides, that would just be a retread of Genthru.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:17
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read the manga though for real. togashi has great art even when it's not, and the anime loses a lot of the crazy intensity he can bring to bear
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Jun 10, 2016 23:27
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The flip side is that it loses the horrid scribbles that replace the art while he was starting his main hiatus...
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Jun 10, 2016 23:29
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And the turkey.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:33
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read the manga and youtube all the cool scenes when youre done
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Jun 10, 2016 23:35
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