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Nine injured in a shooting attack in Tel Aviv, details are very sketchy at the moment. E: at least three dead, two attackers "neutralized", a manhunt for alleged third assailant apparently on going. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 20:14
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H.H posted:Netanyahu might be a corrupt gently caress, but at least he's not Herzog. Why did Herzog think it was a good idea to enter into a coalition again? Also might he get kicked from his party? WHat was attacked in Tel Aviv?
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Jun 8, 2016 22:19
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This place: http://saronamarket.co.il/en It's like a fancy food court I guess, somewhat of a tourist attraction. E: right across the road from the IDF HQ, btw. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 22:21
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The assailants were apparently two Palestinians from the West Bank who crossed the border without work permits, they ate dinner at the restaurant and then got up and sprayed the other customers with SMGs, the death toll rose to four by now and there are unconfirmed reports that one of the victims was a four year old girl. Twenty injured. One of the assailants was killed on the spot the other is seriously injured and is being treated in the Sourasky/Ichilov hospital here in tel aviv.
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Jun 8, 2016 23:56
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Crowsbeak posted:Why did Herzog think it was a good idea to enter into a coalition again? Also might he get kicked from his party? Because the alternative is Bennett and the religious parties in prominent positions in the coalition. Ismael Haniyeh publicly praised the attacks. Reports are that the attackers are from Hebron.
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Jun 9, 2016 02:03
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Crowsbeak posted:Why did Herzog think it was a good idea to enter into a coalition again? Also might he get kicked from his party? His detractors say that he tried to do it solely to get into the cabinet, his (few) supporters claim that by doing so he would have been in a position to move forward with a peace initiative. He will probably not survive as party chairman after the next Labour primary, and his opposition in the party will try Kim Jong Il posted:Because the alternative is Bennett and the religious parties in prominent positions in the coalition. There has been exactly one coalition without the ultra-orthodox parties, under Ehud Barak. No one even dreams of forming a coalition without them, even if Bennett remains, the math just doesn't add up.
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Jun 9, 2016 07:32
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Kim Jong Il posted:Because the alternative is Bennett and the religious parties in prominent positions in the coalition. Not Hebron, Yata. It's a small village near Hebron that has a very nasty history with the amount of terrorist that come out of it. Over the course of a 2 year service in the West Bank I probably spent a total of 2-3 months just on Yata. It's also where they found the terrorists from some other attack that I forget now and a massive weapon cache around 2011.
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Jun 9, 2016 09:05
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Herzog is, as Netanyahu likes to put it, human dust.
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Jun 9, 2016 09:06
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The collective punishment is already starting. 83,000 Palestinians have had their entry permits to Israel revoked (a number far too high to be based on legitimate concerns), a number of work permits have been rescinded as well, and the town the attackers came from has been closed off by the IDF. In addition, all permits to visit Al-Aqsa for Ramadan have been revoked, and 204 prisoners of Israeli jails have had their families' visitation rights revoked. On top of that, an "undisclosed number" of people have been arrested in Yatta, along with a dozen elsewhere in the West Bank, and the attackers' home has been measured for demolition. More to come, I'm sure.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:49
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So. After the shooting yesterday one of the assailants dropped his firearm and ran away from the scene blending into the crowd, after a few hundred meters he came upon an off duty police officer who was offering people to take refuge in his apartment, the perp took him upon his offer and went inside, the off duty officer went back outside to try to help others leaving the perp with his wife and mother. A few minutes later he received a description of the escaped perp and realized he let him into his house, so he alerted a nearby officer and ran back home, as he got back home the perp was still there so they got into a scuffle at the end of which the officer got the better hand and forced the perp to surrender. Now at this very moment another officer stormed into the apartment with his pistol unholstered, upon surveying the scene and realizing that the perp was no longer posing a threat he attempted to holster his weapon, accidentally firing his weapon in the process which hit the apartment owner and lightly injured him. If he'd blown his head off it would've fit perfectly in Tarantino movie.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:30
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One of the victims, Michael Feige, was a member of my institute at Ben Gurion University. He was the thesis advisor to a friend of mine. I'm reading his work titled "Settling in the Hearts". It is tragic irony that Michael Feige spent his academic career studying this conflict only to be felled by an act of violence. Here is a free copy of his book. https://books.google.ge/books?id=CG_R01oa780C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Jun 9, 2016 19:34
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^that really sucks dude, sounds like he was a swell guy. Makes me feel bad about posting the following photo of a purple rear end in a top hat with a hideous combover but the gods of the Internet must have their due:  No that's not a photoshop, the photo appeared like that on ynet's front page.
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Jun 9, 2016 20:57
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Main Paineframe posted:The collective punishment is already starting. 83,000 Palestinians have had their entry permits to Israel revoked (a number far too high to be based on legitimate concerns), a number of work permits have been rescinded as well, and the town the attackers came from has been closed off by the IDF. In addition, all permits to visit Al-Aqsa for Ramadan have been revoked, and 204 prisoners of Israeli jails have had their families' visitation rights revoked. On top of that, an "undisclosed number" of people have been arrested in Yatta, along with a dozen elsewhere in the West Bank, and the attackers' home has been measured for demolition. More to come, I'm sure. It's not that loving hard. By doing this vindictive bullshit, they're playing right into the hands of the terrorists. How can they not see this??
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Jun 10, 2016 01:40
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They want continuing violence to excuse their genocide.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:17
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drilldo squirt posted:They want continuing violence to excuse their genocide. Pretty much. Always, always remember that assuming the status quo remains as it is, discounting either a huge aid effort or another lawn-mowing operation, Gaza will run out of drinkable water this year and become functionally unlivable in four years. We've hit the point where 'the impending genocide' is no longer hyperbole.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:38
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drilldo squirt posted:They want continuing violence to excuse their genocide.
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Jun 10, 2016 14:10
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Cugel the Clever posted:Do they seriously not get terrorism? It's like they only process the immediate intended consequence—the atrocious loss of innocent life—and fail to recognize the higher aim of the attack: the provocation of a heavy-handed response by the Israeli state during the Islamic holy month to, in turn, provoke further angered response from innocent Palestinians targeted by the collective punishment. Right-wing government, that's why. The Israeli defense establishment, ironically enough, has been advocating toning down the collective punishment and giving Palestinians some opportunities, but the government is too far right to really do much about it, and the general public discourse is far enough to the right that they eat punitive measures right up. In a country where "leftist" has become an insult on par with "traitor" and "Arab", there isn't anyone with any real power in the Knesset who wants to be lenient toward Palestinians. Ya'alon took a more moderate approach toward Palestinians, even if it meant ignoring Netanyahu's grand political statements about punishing terrorists...but it was exactly that conflict that led to his eventual downfall and replacement by Avigdor Liberman, a hawkish figure who had previously criticized Ya'alon as being too soft and called for tougher policies against Palestinians. For example, although Netanyahu repeatedly promised to stop returning the bodies of attackers to their families for burial, Ya'alon typically circumvented him and had the IDF return the bodies quickly, while the hawkish Liberman has already imposed a freeze on corpse returns and is reportedly planning to build a special cemetery for them. And on that note, a collective punishment update: in addition to that refusal to return corpses, a temporary total ban on Palestinian entry into Israel has been put into place at both the West Bank and the Gaza crossings, the West Bank "security barrier" (a literal Trump wall to keep the Palestinians away, in case anyone's forgotten) will be expanded and beefed up, and Liberman has called for the removal of legal obstacles to the demolition of attackers' homes so that the process can be sped up. This far-right coalition is all about collective punishment and revenge in the name of "deterrence" and "winning the war". Take, for example, Transportation Minister Israel Katz's reaction to the Tel Aviv attack: quote:"The despicable attack in the heart of Tel Aviv necessitates an exceptionally painful Israeli response,” Katz told Army Radio. “We must administer aggressive preventive treatment to Yatta that will be remembered for many years to come. We have to close the village and clean it up. That village gives backing and cover [to terrorism]. It is intolerable that relatives and neighbors of terrorists can grandstand and continue to enter Israel to find employment." Hmmm. Maybe the Agriculture Minister, Uri Ariel, will be less extreme? Nope: quote:Israel needs “to kill the hope” that Arabs have, for the establishment of a Palestinian state. “There are no two states for two nations,” he added. “There is one state for the Jewish people.” Unsurprisingly, these sorts of sentiments are common in the wider population as well. But what should be really disturbing is that they're not just aimed at Palestinians or even Arabs in general - the entire political left as a whole is equally targeted. For example, it seems that one of the Tel Aviv victims is somewhat less mourned than the other three: quote:It’s the responses on social media that trouble me the most.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:12
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Kill all fascists and extreme right people, regardless of race or ethnic background, IMO.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:58
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quote:“There are no two states for two nations,” he added. “There is one state for the Jewish people.”
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Jun 11, 2016 01:26
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Cat Mattress posted:It's nice of them to be honest about their racist and genocidal aims. Usually they try to sweep it under a carpet of hasbara about how they are moral and humane and stuff, and you definitely can't compare them to Apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany. It's really kind of astounding that for how much people want to drive home "Never forget the holocaust, don't let it happen again" that wording like that doesn't set off some pretty major alarms. Like how far do they actually have to go before sentiments like that become a problem?
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Jun 11, 2016 01:42
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Yardbomb posted:It's really kind of astounding that for how much people want to drive home "Never forget the holocaust, don't let it happen again" that wording like that doesn't set off some pretty major alarms. Well it's fine if it happens to those *other* people.
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Jun 11, 2016 03:51
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quote:But critics of the country’s right-wing government, led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, directed their ire not just at Islamist militants — authorities suggest Hamas was behind the attacks — but the prevailing political status quo. Is this a big deal? It seems important that the mayor of the city the attacks happened in is pointing towards Israeli policy as the motivator for such attacks.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:11
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There's a meaningful distinction between criticizing settlements and supporting full boycotts or any other crazy demand. The former is a mainstream belief.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:15
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Cugel the Clever posted:Do they seriously not get terrorism? It's like they only process the immediate intended consequence—the atrocious loss of innocent life—and fail to recognize the higher aim of the attack: the provocation of a heavy-handed response by the Israeli state during the Islamic holy month to, in turn, provoke further angered response from innocent Palestinians targeted by the collective punishment. Its been said already, but being vindictive plays into the hands of the right wingers. The end goal is to provoke the palestinians into an attack so horrible that genocide will be on the table. Now that I think about it, I wonder what has to happen before Israel can round up the entire Palestinian population into actual concentration camps without Israili civilians or world governments pitching a poo poo fit. I think a dirty bomb in a downtown area might do it.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:37
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Kim Jong Il posted:Criticizing settlements. I wish I lived in this world.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:38
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WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Its been said already, but being vindictive plays into the hands of the right wingers. The end goal is to provoke the palestinians into an attack so horrible that genocide will be on the table. Just to clear up my own uncertainty, are you alleging that the Israeli government would be willing to stage a false flag terror attack against its own civilians in order to justify (to whom, by the way?) the complete physical extermination of the Palestinian people, or merely that leading Israeli political figures actively wish a large casualty terrorist attack against Israelis would take place so that they would have a justification to engage in the fore-mentioned genocide? And for the record, no I do not believe that the Israeli government secretly desires the slaughter of innocent Israeli citizens or intentionally overreacts in response to terrorist attacks in order to willfully provoke more of them. MonsieurChoc posted:Kill all fascists and extreme right people, regardless of race or ethnic background, IMO. Quick thread rules clarification question for any mods/admins: Is calling for genocide ok? I'm guessing no but it's not explicitly mentioned in the OP. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 06:00
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The Insect Court posted:Quick thread rules clarification question for any mods/admins: Is calling for genocide ok? I'm guessing no but it's not explicitly mentioned in the OP.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:52
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Cugel the Clever posted:Good thing he specifically targeted a creed rather than a race, in that case. I was also pretty clearly using hyperbole.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:58
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Cugel the Clever posted:Good thing he specifically targeted a creed rather than a race, in that case. TIC just admitted that he believes a large portion of Israeli are fascists, sufficiently large for the death of all fascists to double as a genocide of Israeli.
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Jun 11, 2016 10:54
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yeah things TIC says carry a lot of weight
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Jun 11, 2016 12:22
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Kim Jong Il posted:There's a meaningful distinction between criticizing settlements and supporting full boycotts or any other crazy demand. The former is a mainstream belief.
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Jun 11, 2016 12:52
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Sorry, wrong thread.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:02
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Yardbomb posted:It's really kind of astounding that for how much people want to drive home "Never forget the holocaust, don't let it happen again" that wording like that doesn't set off some pretty major alarms. For some people, "never forget" doesn't mean "don't let genocide happen again", it means "don't let oppression of the Jewish people happen again". For followers of the latter definition, the Holocaust is often seen as just proof that all gentiles are potential anti-semites and therefore ultimately can't be trusted. From there, it's a pretty straightforward path to Jewish supremacism.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:26
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's insane to me that people regard boycotts as an extremist view. It's such a minor measure that only involves us choosing what to buy. You're allowed to be opposed to Israel's policies, as long as this is only expressed through a moderate amount of mild tut-tutting but you still give them your full unconditional material support in all their endeavors.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:27
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Cat Mattress posted:You're allowed to be opposed to Israel's policies, as long as this is only expressed through a moderate amount of mild tut-tutting but you still give them your full unconditional material support in all their endeavors. Are you? That's what Obama did and he's caught a ton of flak for it.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:50
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's insane to me that people regard boycotts as an extremist view. It's such a minor measure that only involves us choosing what to buy. I think they're stupid in general (see above knocking the NYC boycott), but it's not all boycotts, it's Barghouti's boycott. There are groups like the PA that boycott the settlements and whatever. Barghouti's boycott is both collective punishment and has the end game of ethnic cleansing.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:47
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The endgame of boycott is ethnic cleansing?
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Jun 11, 2016 14:52
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Kim Jong Il posted:I think they're stupid in general (see above knocking the NYC boycott), but it's not all boycotts, it's Barghouti's boycott. There are groups like the PA that boycott the settlements and whatever. Barghouti's boycott is both collective punishment and has the end game of ethnic cleansing. So you opposed the various embargoes levied against Iran that aimed to pressure it into giving up its nuclear development capability?
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Jun 11, 2016 15:16
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Svartvit posted:The endgame of boycott is ethnic cleansing? Remember, KJI is one of those people who believes that objecting to ethnic cleansing of Group B by Group A is ethnic cleansing of Group A.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:19
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Oh no, that would be collective punishment! *wrings hands into bloody stumps*
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Jun 11, 2016 15:29
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