USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

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blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

boom boom boom posted:

Apparently Bob Dole put a hit out on Trump

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/bob-dole-trump-support-224173

What the gently caress

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:05

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# ? May 31, 2024 20:03

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Their Bolshevik-style party discipline means this is probably already torturous for them, to not be voting for the Glorious Party. To even go thus far must feel devastating. But to work against the Party?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:07

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Epic High Five posted:

He's the future of the GOP is what he is

The TX GOP have been working to strip his post of any real power for some reason

No clue how successful they've been

We will find out when he actually gets a chance to try to do anything, although he's said he has no interest in messing with the normal functioning of the parry bureaucracy. Which is a tragedy and I hope his barely undiagnosed mental illnesses talk him around to changing his mind.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:08

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

fool_of_sound posted:

Welp, he's got my vote.

e: My new theory is that he's forums poster The Lovable Plutonis.

same

And if he doesn't have an SA account someone should get him one. He'll fit right in.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:12

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Establishment Republicans should be doing literally every single ting at their disposal to stop Trump from getting elected. Because if he does what do you want to bet that he enacts some Stalinist-esque purges of the party 'unfaithful' that didn't immediately suck his dick from day one? At least they won't be shot and buried in a mass grave in a dark forest somewhere I guess (maybe)

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:13

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Establishment Republicans should be doing literally every single ting at their disposal to stop Trump from getting elected. Because if he does what do you want to bet that he enacts some Stalinist-esque purges of the party 'unfaithful' that didn't immediately suck his dick from day one? At least they won't be shot and buried in a mass grave in a dark forest somewhere I guess (maybe)

Spoilers: this would in fact be pretty much all of the GOP leadership, probably explicitly including those who turned coat and worked hard for him, like Chris Christie.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:15

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

I have literally seen weather reports copied from public sources that were marked as classified and then distributed through secure channels without a hint of irony.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:20

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

sean10mm posted:

I have literally seen weather reports copied from public sources that were marked as classified and then distributed through secure channels without a hint of irony.

Does this mean that going outside and observing that weather represents an unforgivable violation of INFOSEC which we just can't let go, or would that only be if you discuss the weather with others?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:24

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

sean10mm posted:

I have literally seen weather reports copied from public sources that were marked as classified and then distributed through secure channels without a hint of irony.

Yea, I have seen people who have seen 4th of July party invites listed as classified. The dumbest thing though was someone suggest that "what if Hillary had an enemies list on her email server that she deleted to hide who she is going to have killed when she's president". Yea, and maybe her sexy emails between her and Lord Xenu where on there.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:24

Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

Crain posted:

So, with the whole "Hillary used a PDA to order Drone Strikes" as the new chapter of the emailgateghazi-saga, I decided to ask my father what the hell was actually up with the whole thing. Specifically he is a CISO in a government Agency, has been a CIO, has been a webmaster, sys-admin, and most other computer and system security related title/job combos in the government since like the 70s. I know no one else who could have more experience with exactly what this is (As in literally out of all the people I personally know).

So the TL;DR he gave me was a break down of how FISMA (Federal Information Security Management Act) actually works in the day to day for basic users and higher ups (including Cabinet level positions). You may have heard or read this act mentioned in the OIG report that was link previously, it's a major consideration when it comes to whether or not Clinton did any wrong and whether or not what she did is actionable.

So here is how, as it was explained to me in very simple but flowery language, information security is supposed to work.

1) Thou shalt have a CIO. Every department, agency, regulatory agency, etc, whatever. If it's a stand alone entity it has to a CIO. The CIO is where the buck stops. When it comes to signing off on exceptions to FISMA and other security rules, it's up to the CIO to sign off on it.

2) Thou shalt have a CISO. You can have more than one, but you need at least one. The CISO generates a risk report based on what rules the end users want to ignore (because following all the rules of FISMA means you most likely cannot do your job if it involves a computer). Do you not want to do XYZ? Well the CISO figures out what the risks in that are. Then passes those risks onto the CIO to be approved.

3) Thou shalt have the Department of Commerce. Because reasons. These guys exist here to just tell the AO/DAA: "Yeah sure". They pass the buck.

4) Thou Shalt have a AO/DAA. The AO/DAA (Authorizing Officer/Designated Authorizing Authority), who is also a CIO, will...do the job of the CIO and sign off on approved ATOs (Authorization to Operate) because that's his job, but in this flow chart he is actually further down the list even though he's the head of the department.

So if you want to do something and it's against FISMA, which it most likely is, you go to your CISO. You say "Hey, we need this router to get a bunch of new hires online, but the WEP isn't working right. So can you sign off on this so we can use it anyway". So the CISO sits down and figures out all the ways that's a bad idea, all the rules you're violating, and then passes that up to the CIO to be approved/denied. If it's approved things move forward. Now if there is a Hack, the big men with guns, badges, and warrants show up, an IT investigator (forget the actual name for this guy) goes through what happened and goes through the list of official FISMA rules and goes "HEY! You didn't follow this rule! The Router wasn't protected right!". To that you say "I was given approval from the CIO to do this" and show the documents.

The men with badges now go to the CIO and ask "The gently caress!?". The CIO is now in trouble because he didn't follow FISMA rules. BUT! The next stage of the investigation is the FBI looking to see if this was done deliberately to facilitate said hack. They find nothing. But it was a criminal investigation. Now the punishment is simply having the funding revoked since the CIO did not spend the funding he was already given to adequately secure government systems. No one else gets in trouble, but they were all investigated.

Now what does this mean for Hillary? Well let's go back to what McAlister posted (sorry about the spelling I can't remember ). 1) The server was already existing prior to her becoming SoS, 2) She did attempt to enter into compliance for the server and blackberry she uses when she took office, and 3) the server was only for the unsecured .gov email, as far as any investigation has shown she has followed the procedure for accessing and using secured information. AKA: Used the burn rooms and skifs in compliance with stated rules like leaving blackberrys/devices outside of secure access rooms, etc.

Here is how that breaks down:

- If Hillary was doing this the CIO is in charge of stopping her. Even if rebuffed on it the CIO is who is responsible.
- Since Hillary did attempt to enter into compliance she is completely clear of any possible criminal charges. Hands down. She was not deliberately attempting to circumvent FISMA rules for the purpose of compromising security. And single 30 second meeting with the CIO of her asking "Can we secure and connect my mail server for work?" suffices. (if documented) ((it is documented)).
- Even if approval for bringing her server/blackberry into compliance was denied it is up to the CIO to stop her from accessing it and using it for work related activities. That's literally the CIO's Job. Caveat: That's if the CIO was aware of the situation. But: That is a weak stipulation since it is your job to know as CIO and The CIO(s) in question did know.

Final point about the Drone blackberry approvals: My father says there is a trump card to FISMA loosely known by "Beans, Blankets, and Bullets". Sometimes in a different order, sometimes with Bombs instead of Bullets. Basically: If it involves the Military and specifically the Military completing a mission then all rules are out. That's why you don't have soldiers calling in troop movements in emergency situations on unsecured lines getting in trouble with the FBI and some Military CIO, beyond just basic decency. So those drone approvals could have been sent by Western Union for all anyone cares.

Hope you found this extra bit of inside info from someone whose literal job it is/was to do this exact thing.

I appreciate this post. It is very good. Very good.

Is there a similar post that explains what the gently caress Ben Ghazi is actually? I always figured it was something along the lines of "government procedure and budget cuts lead to embassy being ill prepared for a large scale attack", but nothing that would scream gross negligence or point all the way back to Hillary.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:34

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Theres a very good book on Benghazi that Im too drunk to remember. Actually, its not about Benghazi but the DoS security agents. Still too drunk to remember it but it covers Ben pretty well

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:44

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

I appreciate this post. It is very good. Very good.

Is there a similar post that explains what the gently caress Ben Ghazi is actually? I always figured it was something along the lines of "government procedure and budget cuts lead to embassy being ill prepared for a large scale attack", but nothing that would scream gross negligence or point all the way back to Hillary.

That's basically Benghazi in a nutshell, yes.

EDIT: I guess the anime touhou thing is the new Yoda. I don't get it or what vines have to do with anything other than Vic Berger but you could do worse than being a touhou I guess

ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jun 12, 2016

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:45

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Nessus posted:

Does this mean that going outside and observing that weather represents an unforgivable violation of INFOSEC which we just can't let go, or would that only be if you discuss the weather with others?

In reality everybody acts like it never happened, of course, because it's super dumb.

Technically if you see information above your clearance you need to be debriefed IIRC, but you aren't in trouble unless you tell others about it who don't have the clearance for it either.

E: Debriefing here meaning a legal promise not to blab about it basically.

sean10mm fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 12, 2016

# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:51

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Obama's approval rating is now at the highest it's been since his second inauguration: 54%.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 02:14

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

I appreciate this post. It is very good. Very good.

Is there a similar post that explains what the gently caress Ben Ghazi is actually? I always figured it was something along the lines of "government procedure and budget cuts lead to embassy being ill prepared for a large scale attack", but nothing that would scream gross negligence or point all the way back to Hillary.

That plus, it was the same day as a poo poo ton of protests across the entire middle east and arab world about that lovely movie that sad mohammed was a pedophile. So the US beefed up security in a bunch of places where there was significant rioting and unrest. Basically, the world was on fire that day, and they guessed wrong where it would burn brightest

# ? Jun 12, 2016 02:17

berserker: Aug 17, 2003; My love for you
is ticking clock

ComradeCosmobot posted:

Obama's approval rating is now at the highest it's been since his second inauguration: 54%.

He's going on a major charm offensive to try and raise that % as high as possible so that he can act as a more effective stump for Clinton, and it's an extremely smart move because the major thing that is lacking in Clinton's campaign thus far is likeability. It's going to make some people think "alright how can she be so bad if the coolest motherfucker on the planet is saying she's dope?" Not everyone, but some.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 02:47

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

sean10mm posted:

I have literally seen weather reports copied from public sources that were marked as classified and then distributed through secure channels without a hint of irony.

The DoD maintains a separate, secure channel for requesting weather in addition to the normal one. The data might be the same, but sending "hey bomber squadron, here's that 72 hour forecast for downtown Tehran with flight level winds between 21,000 and 25,000 feet" over unsecure channels might reveal capabilities and intentions, to say nothing of raising a few eyebrows, even though the underlying data might be unclass.

I won't say that overclassification isn't a problem, but A) that isn't relevant to Hillary's email server, and B) that was a really bad example.

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

Is there a similar post that explains what the gently caress Ben Ghazi is actually? I always figured it was something along the lines of "government procedure and budget cuts lead to embassy being ill prepared for a large scale attack", but nothing that would scream gross negligence or point all the way back to Hillary.

There really isn't a coherent theory of Clinton's culpability. Some folks think the administration knew it was a 9/11 anniversary attack but blamed it on the protests over the Prophet Muhammad film because the optics were better, some claim that the DoS had intel about 9/11 anniversary attacks but did nothing to step up embassy security, and some think that DoS or the administration didn't intervene or send reinforcements to the compound under attack because they were too hesitant. None of it is terribly substantive.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 02:47

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Dead Reckoning posted:

The DoD maintains a separate, secure channel for requesting weather in addition to the normal one. The data might be the same, but sending "hey bomber squadron, here's that 72 hour forecast for downtown Tehran with flight level winds between 21,000 and 25,000 feet" over unsecure channels might reveal capabilities and intentions, to say nothing of raising a few eyebrows, even though the underlying data might be unclass.

Sadly that's not what I'm referring to.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:07

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

sean10mm posted:

Sadly that's not what I'm referring to.

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down. Dead Reckoning misinterpreted something?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:15

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

quote:

There really isn't a coherent theory of Clinton's culpability. Some folks think the administration knew it was a 9/11 anniversary attack but blamed it on the protests over the Prophet Muhammad film because the optics were better, some claim that the DoS had intel about 9/11 anniversary attacks but did nothing to step up embassy security, and some think that DoS or the administration didn't intervene or send reinforcements to the compound under attack because they were too hesitant. None of it is terribly substantive.

Holy gently caress. :aaa:

You're one stupid son of a bitch

# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:23

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

Dead Reckoning posted:

The DoD maintains a separate, secure channel for requesting weather in addition to the normal one. The data might be the same, but sending "hey bomber squadron, here's that 72 hour forecast for downtown Tehran with flight level winds between 21,000 and 25,000 feet" over unsecure channels might reveal capabilities and intentions, to say nothing of raising a few eyebrows, even though the underlying data might be unclass.

I won't say that overclassification isn't a problem, but A) that isn't relevant to Hillary's email server, and B) that was a really bad example.

There really isn't a coherent theory of Clinton's culpability. Some folks think the administration knew it was a 9/11 anniversary attack but blamed it on the protests over the Prophet Muhammad film because the optics were better, some claim that the DoS had intel about 9/11 anniversary attacks but did nothing to step up embassy security, and some think that DoS or the administration didn't intervene or send reinforcements to the compound under attack because they were too hesitant. None of it is terribly substantive.

Isn't it essentially true that the Benghazi attacks were planned for a different time or something, but the plans were moved up when they saw the protests because that made it more convenient and gave them cover? So the protests actually were involved?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:30

Presto: Nov 22, 2002; Keep calm and Harry on.

Samurai Sanders posted:

edit: but boy howdy is the author naive about the state of the party before Trump.

The author was GWB's speech writer.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:38

Mister Mind: Mar 20, 2009; I'm not a real doctor,
But I am a real worm;
I am an actual worm

Pocahontas.com now redirects to elizabethwarren.com.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 04:12

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

greatn posted:

Isn't it essentially true that the Benghazi attacks were planned for a different time or something, but the plans were moved up when they saw the protests because that made it more convenient and gave them cover? So the protests actually were involved?

According to a captured ringleader, yes.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 04:54

Lemming: Apr 21, 2008

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

I appreciate this post. It is very good. Very good.

Is there a similar post that explains what the gently caress Ben Ghazi is actually? I always figured it was something along the lines of "government procedure and budget cuts lead to embassy being ill prepared for a large scale attack", but nothing that would scream gross negligence or point all the way back to Hillary.

They've been doing their best to insinuate that there were some Space Marines or something on hand that were close enough to save the people at the embassy, but Hillary told them to stand down for some reason.

Yeah.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 05:13

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

After seeing Lerner's speech I might vote for him as a write-in. I'm all about that GMI.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 05:21

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

So what's the point of Benghazi now that they have no legs to stand on with Hillary not following rules? That she's going to - I don't know, email in secret forever?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 05:48

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

Crabtree posted:

So what's the point of Benghazi now that they have no legs to stand on with Hillary not following rules? That she's going to - I don't know, email in secret forever?

Presumably, the point is to drum up or massively overstate conspiracies and "scandals" that makes the uninformed and low information voters dredge up nonsense when talking politics with their friends that may swing their opinions.

They don't have to be true or even reasonable claims if it helps conservatives muddy the discourse with their friends and family.

PS thank you thread for the info on the email thing, as a big Bernie supporter who was very disappointed by the results of this that has made it a lot less frustrating of a loss. Now I need to go through the process of telling my other liberal friends that Hillary isn't going to be indicted by the FBI and Bernie is in fact finished. :smith:

# ? Jun 12, 2016 05:54

Moxie: Aug 2, 2003

Crabtree posted:

So what's the point of Benghazi now that they have no legs to stand on with Hillary not following rules? That she's going to - I don't know, email in secret forever?

I'm not one of the prime poligoons here but there's no reason that Benghazi can't be the same ignorant bludgeon it's been since 2012. Americans died, your fault, Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 05:56

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Crabtree posted:

So what's the point of Benghazi now that they have no legs to stand on with Hillary not following rules? That she's going to - I don't know, email in secret forever?

"Well Hillary's always under investigation for something, and where there's smoke there's probably fire, so I dunno, I just don't think I can support her" <- hypothetical swing state voter who will instead vote for Bob Dole

# ? Jun 12, 2016 06:01

McAlister: Nov 3, 2002; by exmarx

Lightning Knight posted:

Presumably, the point is to drum up or massively overstate conspiracies and "scandals" that makes the uninformed and low information voters dredge up nonsense when talking politics with their friends that may swing their opinions.

They don't have to be true or even reasonable claims if it helps conservatives muddy the discourse with their friends and family.

PS thank you thread for the info on the email thing, as a big Bernie supporter who was very disappointed by the results of this that has made it a lot less frustrating of a loss. Now I need to go through the process of telling my other liberal friends that Hillary isn't going to be indicted by the FBI and Bernie is in fact finished.

Still got Sunday before I'm back on my 9 hour day with 45 min each way commute. Is there one other topic that a research dump could potentially lighten your spirits on?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 06:19

Lemming: Apr 21, 2008

Crabtree posted:

So what's the point of Benghazi now that they have no legs to stand on with Hillary not following rules? That she's going to - I don't know, email in secret forever?

Facts and reality are irrelevant. They never had a leg to stand on.

Seriously. I am not using hyperbole or exaggerating. It was never about facts. They're just going to keep at it forever.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 06:53

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

�With President Trump, I�m ready to get off defense and go on offense. Trump is going to slaughter some sacred cows, and I�m ready for the barbecue.�

� Rep. Brent Farenthold (R-TX)

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:07

Soy Division: Aug 12, 2004

How often do people report for debriefing because they saw some article on Snowden in the paper meaning they now know SAP information?

I'm sure there are some idiots who take matters to this extreme, just curious how frequent it is.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Lemming posted:

Facts and reality are irrelevant. They never had a leg to stand on.

Seriously. I am not using hyperbole or exaggerating. It was never about facts. They're just going to keep at it forever.

Yeah, important to remember is that it was all about how Obama let Americans die. They didn't pivot to Clinton until after Obama won the election and they needed to use the cudgel against someone that was still going to need to run for office.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:16

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

So has anyone pointed out that Gary Johnson is polling at 10% right now and the threshold for appearing on the televised debates is like 15? Like CNN had him at 12.

Just in case you didn't have enough reasons to look forward to the debates.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:26

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Mantis42 posted:

So has anyone pointed out that Gary Johnson is polling at 10% right now and the threshold for appearing on the televised debates is like 15? Like CNN had him at 12.

Just in case you didn't have enough reasons to look forward to the debates.

Isn't Gary Johnson currently winning in Utah?

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:29

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mantis42 posted:

So has anyone pointed out that Gary Johnson is polling at 10% right now and the threshold for appearing on the televised debates is like 15? Like CNN had him at 12.

Just in case you didn't have enough reasons to look forward to the debates.

And yet some don't agree this is the best election

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:31

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Trabisnikof posted:

�With President Trump, I�m ready to get off defense and go on offense. Trump is going to slaughter some sacred cows, and I�m ready for the barbecue.�

� Rep. Brent Farenthold (R-TX)

Well, now I'm opposed to the GOP, he wants to piss off ~~the wimpy variety of~~ Hindus. :mad:

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:35

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# ? May 31, 2024 20:03

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

Talking about Kansas and Grover Norquist

Gyges posted:

In his defense, the courts probably should be trying all those assholes for criminal incompetence/super villain competence.

No, he blames the KS Supreme court for being an activist court and forcing the legislature to spend money. This was in an interview on Stand Up With Pete Dominic and Pete missed the push. The KS SC is enforcing the KS Constitution that says that KS must provide elementary education. The KS Lege and Brownback are setting up procedures to remove the Supreme Court that keeps insisting that the KS Lege obey the KS Constitution.

Norquist is entirely behind the whole elimination of taxes and government oversight, and will still vote for Trump.

# ? Jun 12, 2016 07:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

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