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Brunas posted:You guys and your Juke are crazy. Fel, the inquisitor, etc are always spending that focus defensively anyways, so you're really just getting a bonus damage through sometimes on jumpmasters. I'd rather have the extra lone wolf to get the damage through and maybe survive against turret shots, unless there's some other benefit I'm missing. This is why you run Juke alongside more ships with Juke. Every Juke shot after the first has a repeatable Crack Shot, and we've already agreed that Crack Shot is amazing. Oh, and you know what else is amazing? PS4. Oh look, Omega Squadron Pilots are PS4 and can run Juke/Comm Relay...
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Jun 13, 2016 06:44
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Corbeau posted:Why am I not surprised that the Wedge player comes up with the Vader deathstar. I have a gimmick. I stick to it. ConfusedUs posted:Eh that's, what, 37 points on Vader? I don't think that's the way to go. Especially given the chance you'll need to spend the lock to modify the shot. If you're bringing Palpatine, odds are modifying the shot won't be a huge deal. Four dice, average is hit/hit/focus/blank. Blank -> hit with guidance chips, if you're even halfway patient you can set up for focus/evade actions and have the TL from previous turn so focus -> hit. Even without Palp, the average is four hits that can't be stopped by an evade token. The bigger problem is that ATC is primary only. 
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Jun 13, 2016 06:45
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Corbeau posted:This is why you run Juke alongside more ships with Juke. Every Juke shot after the first has a repeatable Crack Shot, and we've already agreed that Crack Shot is amazing. Omegas with Juke and Comm Relay are like 22 points each though. Is it really worth that much?
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Jun 13, 2016 06:46
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Strobe posted:Omegas with Juke and Comm Relay are like 22 points each though. Is it really worth that much? Yes. It's part of what makes me so very sad when I put my generic X-Wings on the table.  The imperials just get so much more for the same price...
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Jun 13, 2016 06:47
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Brunas posted:You guys and your Juke are crazy. Fel, the inquisitor, etc are always spending that focus defensively anyways, so you're really just getting a bonus damage through sometimes on jumpmasters. I'd rather have the extra lone wolf to get the damage through and maybe survive against turret shots, unless there's some other benefit I'm missing. To satisfy my own curiosity, here's Vader with focus target lock ATC at range 2 against unmodded: 2 agility: 0 0.07586669921875 1 0.280517578125 2 0.42388916015625 3 0.2197265625 Expected Damage 1.7874755859375 2 agility, juke: 0 0.0072021484375 1 0.07781982421875 2 0.43157958984375 3 0.4833984375 Expected Damage 2.39117431640625 2 agility, lone wolf: 0 0.029296875 1 0.190673828125 2 0.450439453125 3 0.32958984375 Expected Damage 2.080322265625 About an extra .31 damage against Jumpmasters. Also, lone wolf means you're spending an offensive focus about 5% more often.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:47
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Corbeau posted:Yes. Rookies with R2 and Integrated are serviceable. I'd run them more if I wasn't allergic to low PS.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:48
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Strobe posted:Rookies with R2 and Integrated are serviceable. I'd run them more if I wasn't allergic to low PS. And now imagine them at PS4 with better dials and better potential lifespan (due to saving an Evade action any time there's a quiet round or lucky green dice). That's more or less JukeFOs when they're grouped and able to take advantage of multiple Juke shots on the same target. 3 red ain't so impressive compared to 2 red + repeatable crack shot. e: That new astromech had goddamned better give X-Wings free Evade tokens somehow, because they need it to get back to the power curve. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 06:49
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Maybe I am a bad player (OK, I'm definitely not a great one), but I don't understand why Palp Ace players will hide their shuttle away from the action. That thing's got a 3 dice primary, take some range 3 potshots with it!
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Jun 13, 2016 06:53
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Brunas posted:2 dice attacks aren't any good, even with guaranteed hits quote:jumpmasters even with primary eat them alive  How is two guaranteed hits bad, but 2 dice amazing? I'm honestly baffled.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:56
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canyoneer posted:Maybe I am a bad player (OK, I'm definitely not a great one), but I don't understand why Palp Ace players will hide their shuttle away from the action. That thing's got a 3 dice primary, take some range 3 potshots with it! Because it handles like a shopping cart. This is why I have started running it with waffles.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:57
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canyoneer posted:Maybe I am a bad player (OK, I'm definitely not a great one), but I don't understand why Palp Ace players will hide their shuttle away from the action. That thing's got a 3 dice primary, take some range 3 potshots with it! I felt the same way until I got serious with the standard 35 Fel, 31 Inquisitor, sensor jammer shuttle. Basically, Fel and the Inquisitor are immune to damage. Unless you horrifically gently caress up, and as long as the shuttle is there and you didn't park at range 2 of a crack swarm (this counts as horrifically loving up), you aren't taking damage on your aces. The only way for you to lose the game is either your opponent kills the shuttle, then an ace once they're vulnerable, or you get blocked and die, or something like a bumpmaster. Basically, sending in the shuttle (early in the game at least) is almost always a liability, as your only weakness in the list is the shuttle dying early. Corbeau posted:And now imagine them at PS4 with better dials and better potential lifespan (due to saving an Evade action any time there's a quiet round or lucky green dice). That's more or less JukeFOs when they're grouped and able to take advantage of multiple Juke shots on the same target. 3 red ain't so impressive compared to 2 red + repeatable crack shot. Will free evades on the XWing be enough? I'm hesitant about x7 Defenders seeing play, as they still die to twoish torpedoes, and XWing isn't going to do any better. Maybe if you can fit 4 with free evades and a Z still? Some Numbers posted:
I phrased this poorly. Two dice as your primary is bad, you aren't hitting anything that is actively trying to avoid damage. Against a TIE Advanced, two red dice are threatening, because you lack autothrusters. Every hit is 20% of your health, so a TLT is nearly guaranteed 40% of your health every turn, and a jumpmaster primary at two dice is still about 20% of your health. At range 1 it's worse of course, but your accuracy corrected Advanceds are still rolling two hits, which comes out to about 10% of a jumpmasters health after agility. Their shot is worth 4 points on you, and can be out of arc, while your shot is worth about 2-3 points, and has to be in arc. Brunas fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 06:57
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Plasma torpedoes should have been 3 dice. 
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Jun 13, 2016 07:01
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It's still not coming across very clearly. Is your statement that ace players always get into range 3 for combat, thus AT always applies? I do understand that TLTs are a huge threat to Vader though. e: Oh okay it's about relative health pools. That would have been clearer if you'd said it was about relative HP or damage racing; talking about "two red dice" in opposite ways confused me. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 07:05
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^^^: No, he's saying Autothrusters make JumpMasters far less scary since they'll almost always be on against a PWT.Brunas posted:I phrased this poorly. Two dice as your primary is bad, you aren't hitting anything that is actively trying to avoid damage. Against a TIE Advanced, two red dice are threatening, because you lack autothrusters. Every hit is 20% of your health, so a TLT is nearly guaranteed 40% of your health every turn, and a jumpmaster primary at two dice is still about 20% of your health. At range 1 it's worse of course, but your accuracy corrected Advanceds are still rolling two hits, which comes out to about 10% of a jumpmasters health after agility. Their shot is worth 4 points on you, and can be out of arc, while your shot is worth about 2-3 points, and has to be in arc. I think you're underselling the TIE Adv a bit, since Accuracy Corrector allows you to use all your actions defensively and is optional if you manage to roll better than two hits. But I guess the hard math does favor the toilet seats more. Still, Accuracy Corrector is a good way of getting around the fact that two red dice are pretty garbage.
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Jun 13, 2016 07:07
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Corbeau posted:It's still not coming across very clearly. Is your statement that ace players always get into range 3 for combat, thus AT always applies? Sorry if it was unclear. In the current meta you're shooting at one of three things: Ace Jumpmaster Crack A or TIE Fighter If you're shooting at an Ace, you aren't going to do damage with two hits. You'd be better off trying to block for the rest of the list. Against a Jumpmaster, you're comically outgunned in arc, and in the best case you're even and out of arc. Against a crack swarm you're dead, because they PS killed you. The reason we're interested in relative health and damage output is because we know the ship is bad against aces and swarms, so maybe it's good against jumpmasters, but the math said no. Make sense?
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Jun 13, 2016 07:19
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I'm doing some reading, because I'm curious, and the math I'm reading so far suggests that a TIE Advanced with Accuracy Correcter is going to have a real good chances against a PWT-only JM5K in a duel. That's one-on-one, mind, which is the easiest math case, but the JM5K only has about twice the HP and will get hit about four times as much unless it can get out of the Advanced's arc. So it has to arc-dodge the Advanced roughly half the time in order to win the duel. It does get worse for the Advanceds the larger scale the fight goes though, which is the problem with having multiple turreted ships in a single game... combining fire is quite possibly too easy. And then there's the alpha... But hey, if you can reduce the fight that far, the Advanced is in pretty good shape! Though I'm not really the generic Advanced advocate. I prefer the FO, as mentioned above, because it's more capable of killing... well, nearly anything, but especially aces. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 07:22
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Corbeau posted:I'm doing some reading, because I'm curious, and the math I'm reading so far suggests that a TIE Advanced with Accuracy Correcter is going to have a real good chances against a PWT-only JM5K in a duel. That's one-on-one, mind, which is the easiest math case, but the JM5K only has about twice the HP and will get hit about four times as much unless it can get out of the Advanced's arc. So it has to arc-dodge the Advanced roughly half the time in order to win the duel. Sadly in your example the PWT should win easily, with native PS3, barrel roll, and white sloop being out of arc >50% of the time (more than that if you're barrel rolling and losing other actions, I'm assuming) should be pretty easily. Sad considering the point different is 4, but oh well. Too bad the PS4 Advanced doesn't have an EPT, or a crack/juke swarm with them might be feasible. Anyways, to get off the subject of my TIE Advanced whining, what do you guys think mid-high agility non-boost ships need to be workable in the competitive meta? Is there a good solution that isn't autothrusters for them? There could always be a small ship mod that reduces damage taken by ordinance or something, so they'd be tanky against Uboats but still weak to turrets and not on ships that can take autothrusters. Basically, your XWings, TIE Advanceds, EWings, TIE/sf, Kihraxz, etc. Brunas fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 07:39
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If the PS4 Advanced had an EPT then I'd be all over that poo poo. Juke with Accuracy Corrector is really nasty, but right now Vader's the only place that it's reasonable. On a similar note, the X-Wing really ought to have an EPT on it's PS4. It probably would, for that matter, if it had been designed today.
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Jun 13, 2016 07:41
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Just give the TIE Adv A-Wing Test Pilot. It'll be fine.
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Jun 13, 2016 07:45
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Better yet, rip the EPT off Contracted Scout and give it to Storm Squadron Pilot. That's totally fair, right?
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Jun 13, 2016 07:48
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I'd be okay with it. I still think putting an EPT on the Contracted Scout was a mystifying decision. Aren't all other EPT-pilots PS4 or up? I guess they could go ahead and give EPTs to Dagger Squadron Pilots then. It's not like they'd be more problematic than JM5K!
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Jun 13, 2016 08:05
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Corbeau posted:I'd be okay with it. I still think putting an EPT on the Contracted Scout was a mystifying decision. Aren't all other EPT-pilots PS4 or up? Greens are PS3 with them (well, two) but I think that's it. The funny thing is, even without EPTs U-boat would still be pretty good, you'd just have to not torpedo round 1. R4 will make sure you've always got target lock + focus for every shot after the first.
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Jun 13, 2016 08:10
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Strobe posted:Langolas versus Aramoro Sorry about this, we're having some real scheduling issues on this match. I hope we can get this in sometime this week.
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Jun 13, 2016 09:10
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Couldn't sleep, so I painted a bit. Still haven't decided what to paint the hatch. The white horizontal highlight on the glass support looks too strong so I'll dial it back. I don't know how the funny brown splotch to the right of the cockpit got there lol. Unfortunately, the clamps to the sides of the glass looks too indistinct if it's all brown so I'll prob have to make them NMM gold as well.   
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Jun 13, 2016 09:36
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Juke is still good against imperial aces even if they have no problem having focus because it either forces them not to have an offensive focus or pushes through damage. It also adds some pressure to Fel. I don't think Juke needs to be spammed to be effective.
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Jun 13, 2016 10:33
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Major Isoor (Whisper/Deci) vs. overdesigned (Stele-D/Vader/Juno) results for week six: I won 100-33. I had the hottest of hot green dice, and the Major just baaarely parked Whisper on a debris field in-arc of all three of my guys to get evaporated on the second turn of combat. First combat I had no shots and his Decimator got the stealth device off of Stele but once Whisper was gone it was a beatdown on his poor Patrol Leader, even if he did manage to hit my Vader hard enough that his crew-Vader was able to direct-hit my pilot-Vader to death. There can be only one Vader.
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Jun 13, 2016 11:57
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Brunas posted:Hey man, any particular time good for you? I'm free Wednesday evening EST, but after that won't be back till next Monday. Look at me, being all difficult to schedule around. Speaking of being busy this weekend, anyone else going to Origins? I could probably do Wednesday evening, depending on what you consider evening. I'm usually available around 6:30-7:00ish, and would prefer not to start any later than 9:00 but I can if I have to.
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Jun 13, 2016 13:13
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Strobe posted:NEXT WEEK FOR THE X-WING LEAGUE (WEEK 6): Herux won our game. I believe it was 100-21, but he would have to confirm.
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Jun 13, 2016 13:21
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Chill la Chill posted:Couldn't sleep, so I painted a bit. Still haven't decided what to paint the hatch. The white horizontal highlight on the glass support looks too strong so I'll dial it back. I don't know how the funny brown splotch to the right of the cockpit got there lol. Unfortunately, the clamps to the sides of the glass looks too indistinct if it's all brown so I'll prob have to make them NMM gold as well.  That's insanely good, has a more Red Baron feel now that you filled it out. Also teach me you secrets at painting because I look at my stuff and yeah that's a huge difference in quality.
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Jun 13, 2016 14:28
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Eimi posted:
Oh neat, hadn't considered that. I guess it could've gone either way with how rich I wanted the model to look when the middle wasn't painted yet. I can't really offer any advice aside from practice and always pushing yourself In little ways. A have a bunch of badly looking X-wings when I started painting again after about a 10 year hiatus. I can post them later for comparison. The falcon I posted way back and used for a couple years was all blending practice. I just looked through your post history and I guess I missed the last batch of pics but they're coming along nicely. I will suggest that for any new minis with such a stark contrast as you have, you should work up from grey to white. It's a pain in the rear end and I have to do the same with yellows on black backgrounds. Slow down and use fewer paint on the brush - you can always add more later. I tend to paint as meditation/preparation for big tournaments. I also like listening to audiobooks. I'm halfway through the OG foundation series now.
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Jun 13, 2016 15:00
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I don't think you're giving Juke-Vader enough credit. I ran him in my last FLGS store championship and went undefeated in four rounds. I used Juke and Stealth Device, spent most of my actions going Juke+Focus. (I had a Standard Fel and a Palpmobile in support). It absolutely murdered everything except quad TLTs, which I still denied him kills on my aces and had to give up the Shuttle. You fly that list right, and it doesn't disappoint. Omicron Group Pilot (21) Emperor Palpatine (8) Darth Vader (29) Juke (2) Advanced Targeting Computer (1) Stealth Device (3) TIE/x1 (0) Soontir Fel (27) Push the Limit (3) Autothrusters (2) Stealth Device (3) Royal Guard TIE (0) Total: 99
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Jun 13, 2016 15:35
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Have they spoiled all the T-70 pilots from Heroes of the Resistance? What.. what if Wedge is one of them?
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Jun 13, 2016 16:32
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Have they spoiled all the T-70 pilots from Heroes of the Resistance? Wedge was going to be in TFA but Denis Lawson declined. I don't think Wedge is hopping into a T-70 any time soon.
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Jun 13, 2016 16:36
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Oh man, I forget that ARC-170 stands for Aggressive ReConnaissance-170, jesus.
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Jun 13, 2016 16:39
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Have they spoiled all the T-70 pilots from Heroes of the Resistance? There's actually a ton of stuff left over from Heroes of the Resistance that hasn't been talked about yet, including a new astromech and crew cards for Finn and Rey. Between that and the ARC-170 it's definitely an exciting time for Rebels.
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Jun 13, 2016 16:59
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Nobody's brainstormed any fun new nicknames for heroes/wave 9 stuff yet. Get on it you nerds.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:06
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I'm 90% sure we've seen the pilots from Heroes, including Jess Pava (PS3), Snap Wexley, and Poe. There might be another one in there, but since it'd be a hideous disservice to not have T-70 Wedge be PS9 and there's already one of those I really, really, really doubt it's him.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:07
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General Battuta posted:ro5s when're you up? Hey, I'm in the UK and can do most evenings my time, I can stay up late to get a game in or do an afternoon if that works too.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:18
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I hope Wedge gets the Will Smith ID4 treatment in the upcoming movies.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:19
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Eagerly waiting for things to tick over to Now Shipping Thinking of all of the stuff that's projected to come out "third quarter" this year and dreading the wait for these to show up in like December Sushi in Yiddish fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 17:23
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