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The Trump message seems to be we should let spree killers decide our foreign policy based on what they say before they start shooting.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:13
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NippleFloss posted:Most of the victims of Muslim violence are other Muslims. So in this civil rights analogy the black Many victims of racialist violence were/are white people targeted for their perceived association with blacks; many, many white women were murdered for having a relationship with black men (the inverse, white men targeted for marrying blacks, was rarer but not at all unheard of). What's your point? Many if not most of the Muslims killed by Islamic extremists are targeted because they are perceived as being a threat to the properly interpreted religion of Islam.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:13
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"Without religion there would be peace in the Middle East" ~ An Idiot
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Jun 13, 2016 20:15
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Zelder posted:i hope this doesn't come across as victim blaming, but would any of the patrons having a gun in that nightclub realistically have changed the outcome? The thing that's been bugging me is that out of context, the shooter sounds like a great example of a good guy with a gun. A guy with years of experience in armed security with a legally purchased rifle and handgun and who is theoretically forbidden from drinking alcohol. On Saturday he'd have been one of those law abiding citizens that Obama keeps trampling on. Sure, his ex said he was violent, but she never pressed charges. The FBI may have investigated him for being connected to extremist groups, but in Obama's America, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, and they didn't find anything anyways.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:16
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PostNouveau posted:The Trump message seems to be we should let spree killers decide our foreign policy based on what they say before they start shooting. Sounds like he's gotten more in line with Republican thinking than we realized.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:16
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I love how idiots blissfully fantasize about a world without religion when religion is completely inseparable from literally everything involved with the development of human civilization.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:17
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Liberal_L33t posted:Many victims of racialist violence were/are white people targeted for their perceived association with blacks; many, many white women were murdered for having a relationship with black men (the inverse, white men targeted for marrying blacks, was rarer but not at all unheard of). What's your point? 75% of Estonians claim to be non-religious, but same sex relationships were not legal until 2014, could you please assist me in interpreting this data, I'm having trouble blaming this on Islam. 
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Jun 13, 2016 20:17
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I'm not even against religion on general principle. Just patriarchal ones that call for violent community enforcement of sexual mores in their foundational scriptures. I will never have anything good to say about those particular religions and I don't see why I should.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:18
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Liberal_L33t posted:Many if not most of the Muslims killed by Islamic extremists are targeted because they are perceived as being a threat to the properly interpreted religion of Islam. Your solution to this issue is to tell the victims that their religion is wrong. Which is approximately as useful as saying that black on black crime is a problem with black culture. The people being oppressed are also Muslims. They don't want you to tell them that their religion is wrong and it's why they are being beaten and murdered.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:20
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theflyingorc posted:75% of Estonians claim to be non-religious, but same sex relationships were not legal until 2014, could you please assist me in interpreting this data, I'm having trouble blaming this on Islam. http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/estonia-legalization-of-civil-partnerships/ quote:While two major religious organizations, the Estonian Evangelical Church and the Russian Orthodox Church, expressed their opposition to legalizing civil partnerships, the President of Estonia, Toomas Hendrik Ilves, said that he sees it as a basic human rights issue.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:20
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theflyingorc posted:This is fun, explain Japanese homophobia next! Japan has huge issues with everything outside of its comfort zone, gay people included. What it doesn't have though is a sustained campaign of hate by a large chunk of its population that it then exports said hatred around the world. That asside IIRC the whole reason that Ugandan law got passed in the first place is because American Christian bigots went over there and started stirring poo poo up. He's well within his rights to call out Christianity/religion as one of the primary drivers of anti-gay sentiment IMO.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:20
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Liberal_L33t posted:I'm not even against religion on general principle. Just patriarchal ones that call for violent community enforcement of sexual mores in their foundational scriptures. I will never have anything good to say about those particular religions and I don't see why I should. Welp, something was written in the bible, all Christian Universal Unitarians are patriarchal baddies.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:20
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Is Trump still talking or is that shitshow over?
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Jun 13, 2016 20:21
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NippleFloss posted:Your solution to this issue is to tell the victims that their religion is wrong. Which is approximately as useful as saying that black on black crime is a problem with black culture. The people being oppressed are also Muslims. They don't want you to tell them that their religion is wrong and it's why they are being beaten and murdered. If there are even a few who see that it's time to leave their religion entirely, or at least vocally repudiate those who believe said religion belongs in politics in any way, shape or form... then a small victory has been won. Edit: And more to the point, the fact that they are being assaulted by zealous co-religionists doesn't let them off the hook for the horrible, oppressive, patriarchal practices that the victims themselves engage in. A domestic abuser getting murdered by a terrorist doesn't suddenly make domestic abuse okay. Liberal_L33t fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 20:22
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is Trump still talking or is that shitshow over? ended 15 minutes ago
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Jun 13, 2016 20:22
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Trabisnikof posted:Welp, something was written in the bible, all Christian Universal Unitarians are patriarchal baddies. Unitarian Universalism is not, strictly speaking, a form of Christianity, and most conservative Christians would get pretty pissed off if you claimed it was. It explicitly disclaims the Bible as being the literal and inerrant word of God.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:22
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No Butt Stuff posted:ended 15 minutes ago Good. From what I gather from his speech I personally doubt that his poll numbers are going to change in either direction.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:23
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Liberal_L33t posted:http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/estonia-legalization-of-civil-partnerships/ it's very nearly the least religious country in the world, but you're right, it's the stranglehold that religion has on the government what done it it's almost like religion is used to justify feelings that are inborn to people and have to be fought against, rather than being the source
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Jun 13, 2016 20:25
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Crain posted:San Bernadino happened because PC culture prevented "all the people who knew" from reporting the dude because "racial profiling". Except also that's probably a made up excuse that their lawyers gave them, so really PC culture didn't cause this???
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Jun 13, 2016 20:26
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Liberal_L33t posted:Unitarian Universalism is not, strictly speaking, a form of Christianity, and most conservative Christians would get pretty pissed off if you claimed it was. It explicitly disclaims the Bible as being the literal and inerrant word of God. Christianity requires a belief in biblical literalism and inerrancy? 
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Jun 13, 2016 20:26
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theflyingorc posted:it's very nearly the least religious country in the world, but you're right, it's the stranglehold that religion has on the government what done it How then do you explain the indigenous cultures that have sprung up over the years that tolerated homosexuality without reservations and incorporated it into their practices? Must have been some enlightened talking animals around to help them get over their inborn homophobia.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:27
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Good. From what I gather from his speech I personally doubt that his poll numbers are going to change in either direction. It was about 75% the same crap he's already thrown around wrt the muslim ban. New things include: - Making Hillary say the magic words "Radical Islam" - Obama should release all immigration records of any Muslim suspected of terrorism since 2001 - Muslims need to start reporting on their own and any muslim who knew a terrorist who attacks the US and didn't say anything needs to face criminal consequences. - Donald is a real friend to the LTBG community because of all his actions, not Hillary with here mere words.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:28
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Liberal_L33t posted:How then do you explain the indigenous cultures that have sprung up over the years that tolerated homosexuality without reservations and incorporated it into their practices? Must have been some enlightened talking animals around to help them get over their inborn homophobia. yeah cause if there's anyone who isn't deeply religious it's indigenous hunter gatherers do you even think before you type
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Jun 13, 2016 20:30
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Liberal_L33t posted:Unitarian Universalism is not, strictly speaking, a form of Christianity, and most conservative Christians would get pretty pissed off if you claimed it was. It explicitly disclaims the Bible as being the literal and inerrant word of God. Christian theology is also something you're really ignorant about. Most Christian sects aren't literalist; that's a widely Evangelical phenomenon.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:30
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Liberal_L33t posted:How then do you explain the indigenous cultures that have sprung up over the years that tolerated homosexuality without reservations and incorporated it into their practices? Must have been some enlightened talking animals around to help them get over their inborn homophobia. Why is that cute redhead with someone of the same gender! SCRIBE GET ME TABLETS!
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Jun 13, 2016 20:31
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Good. From what I gather from his speech I personally doubt that his poll numbers are going to change in either direction. Only changes would come if people were somehow convinced by that speech that Trump would be better. But it was a lot of the same incomprehensible stuff with a fair amount of lies and a healthy helping of islamophobia and just a splash of conspiracy theory. No actual policy or ideas. I'm not convinced that will win over anyone who isn't already won over by it.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:31
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Crain posted:It was about 75% the same crap he's already thrown around wrt the muslim ban.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:32
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Christianity requires a belief in biblical literalism and inerrancy? Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. I'm sure there are a fair number of "Muslims" who are actually Deists, too. They aren't the ones I have a beef with, and I question how eager they would be to leap to the defense of Islamic scripture in times like these.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:33
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Liberal_L33t posted:Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. You're breathtakingly stupid across a wide variety of topics. What is the opposite of a renaissance man?
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Jun 13, 2016 20:34
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Liberal_L33t posted:Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. these sure are a lot of imaginary people in your head that you like to sort into worthy and unworthy categories based on attributes you assign to them
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Jun 13, 2016 20:34
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Liberal_L33t posted:Unitarian Universalism is not, strictly speaking, a form of Christianity, and most conservative Christians would get pretty pissed off if you claimed it was. It explicitly disclaims the Bible as being the literal and inerrant word of God. eta: If you're defining Christianity by political planks, you're not describing a religion anymore. You're describing a campaign platform.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:34
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Seeing religion defended in USPol is loving wacky  In other news, the Orlando shooter apparently attending the same mosque as another muslim who later became a suicide bomber in Syria, and reportedly spoke to him on multiple occasions. so there's that.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:35
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah cause if there's anyone who isn't deeply religious it's indigenous hunter gatherers I didn't say they weren't deeply religious or even that they had belief systems I would approve of, broadly speaking. Just making the clearly evident point that many indigenous (and yes, deeply religious) cultures did not reject all non-heterosexual, non-reproductive sexual relationships, so claiming that homophobia is somehow inherent to human evolutionary psychology is just nonsensical.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:35
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Liberal_L33t posted:Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. Hahahaha holy poo poo now you're saying American Deists are a significant force when anyone who actually is a Deist would tell you that is, laughable to be trite.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:35
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Liberal_L33t posted:Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. the only True Christians / Muslims are patriarchal homophobes
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Jun 13, 2016 20:36
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Liberal_L33t posted:I didn't say they weren't deeply religious or even that they had belief systems I would approve of, broadly speaking. Just making the clearly evident point that many indigenous (and yes, deeply religious) cultures did not reject all non-heterosexual, non-reproductive sexual relationships, so claiming that homophobia is somehow inherent to human evolutionary psychology is just nonsensical. ah yeah you're right it makes so much more sense to ascribe it to abrahamic religion just to be clear that is a sarcastic post. i am making fun of how bad you are at thinking
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Jun 13, 2016 20:36
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NippleFloss posted:You're breathtakingly stupid across a wide variety of topics. What is the opposite of a renaissance man? It's impressive, in a way, that in a thread with LeJackel making GBS threads out NRA talking points, another poster manages to be dumber in practically every way.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:36
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Liberal_L33t posted:Political Christianity does, yes. A fair number of American "Christians" are (and have been, for centuries now) more aptly described as Deists. They're so far away from the historically hierarchical, patriarchal, teleological philosophies of Christianity that I don't personally really consider them to be "Christians"; by my way of thinking, judging them thusly is doing them a favor. I perfectly understand that they wouldn't want me to call them something aside from Christians in public, of course. Christian theologians were already discussing non-literalism as early as the Council of Nicea, and it was official dogma for most of the Catholic Church's domination of European politics. Deism has a specific definition, and it's not the one you're using.
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Jun 13, 2016 20:36
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Trabisnikof posted:"Without religion there would be peace in the Middle East" Wait, did he seriously just "Imagine no religion" in a speech?
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Jun 13, 2016 20:36
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AtraMorS posted:Literalism is the new kid on the block, not the historical default. The finer points debated in the rarefied halls of seminaries aren't the only portions of religious doctrine worth discussing or looking at historically. You're telling me that all those ignorant shitbag medieval peasants lynching the kindly old herbalist lady with too many pet cats didn't take Exodus 22:18 literally? They pretty obviously did; the Bible said "kill witches", and that is what they literally did (except for the part about those women actually being witches).
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Jun 13, 2016 20:38
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