USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

MariusLecter posted:

Court Backs Rules Treating Internet as Utility, Not Luxury

Good luck without Scalia, gently caress faces.

That's pretty cool and good times Scalia is still dead (sorry for making sensitive Scalia fans cry and ruining discourse forever :ohdear:

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:53

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 14:28

BetterToRuleInHell: Jul 2, 2007; Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop

Von Sloneker posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742771576039460864

Gotta be honest, wasn't expecting to see in this election someone trying to set up a fued between muslims and gays.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:54

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

drat looks like nothing can be done about gun control.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:54

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

theflyingorc posted:

The Assault Weapon ban, like every single one that's ever been proposed, didn't actually make any inroads in stopping powerful weapons from being available.

"Assault Weapon" isn't even really a term, it's a term that was defined by the assault weapon ban. The vast majority of it is like trying to stop drug abuse by banning drugs that are colored blue.

Good thing we don't have to use the language of the 1994 bill then.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:55

Zelder: Jan 4, 2012

institute a no guns list, but you can get off it if you defeat the president in a dual. you also become president if you win.

theflyingorc posted:

The Assault Weapon ban, like every single one that's ever been proposed, didn't actually make any inroads in stopping powerful weapons from being available.

"Assault Weapon" isn't even really a term, it's a term that was defined by the assault weapon ban. The vast majority of it is like trying to stop drug abuse by banning drugs that are colored blue.

looks like this guy hasn't seen breaking bad

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:55

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

What court of law was the US citizen in and what crime were they convicted for that placed them on that list? What actual legal reason would the government have that would have put Mateen on that list other than two FBI investigations that resulted in nothing?

I am completely against the government using excuses based on no legal reasoning to interfere with a US citizen's rights.

Now see, was that hard?

At any rate the legal grounding for a no fly list, and for using it for say -- extended the waiting period to purchase a weapon is basically rooted in public safety.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:56

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Von Sloneker posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742771576039460864

Christ almighty. Yeah, THAT'LL work.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:59

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

zoux posted:

Good thing we don't have to use the language of the 1994 bill then.

I was specifically attacking Bill Clinton's statements on the 1994 bill. He literally proposed reinstating the exact same law.

The problem with weapon-based restrictions is that legal guns just aren't that radically different from each other in terms of lethality outside of magazine capacity. The events in Orlando could have been done with very nearly any semi-automatic rifle that can be purchased.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:59

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

zoux posted:

Well maybe we could write a new law that actually does something about it instead of letting the NRA negotiate it.

I think it's pointless until the SC rules the 2A is a collective right that can be limited.

Until then it's more productive working on the social issues leading to these men committing suicide. Mental healthcare, but also meaningful well paying work that doesn't dehumanize us. These are alienated men without hope. I'm 100% serious that single payer and a decent social safety net work work way better to prevent these shootings than an assault weapons ban.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:59

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Now see, was that hard?

At any rate the legal grounding for a no fly list, and for using it for say -- extended the waiting period to purchase a weapon is basically rooted in public safety.

A wait time is just a ban with a time limit.

Nice try racist libtard!

# ? Jun 14, 2016 18:59

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Von Sloneker posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742771576039460864

Does anyone have the .gif of :ironicat:

that grows progressively larger?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:01

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

theflyingorc posted:

I was specifically attacking Bill Clinton's statements on the 1994 bill. He literally proposed reinstating the exact same law.

The problem with weapon-based restrictions is that legal guns just aren't that radically different from each other in terms of lethality outside of magazine capacity. The events in Orlando could have been done with very nearly any semi-automatic rifle that can be purchased.

We should ban semi automatic weapons.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:01

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

theflyingorc posted:

I was specifically attacking Bill Clinton's statements on the 1994 bill. He literally proposed reinstating the exact same law.

The problem with weapon-based restrictions is that legal guns just aren't that radically different from each other in terms of lethality outside of magazine capacity. The events in Orlando could have been done with very nearly any semi-automatic rifle that can be purchased.

Ah yes the classic "we forced you to make a loophole then exploited that loophole, ergo all regulation is ineffective"

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:02

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

zoux posted:

We should ban semi automatic weapons.

hahahahahahahahahahaha good luck.

Very nearly every single gun that you've ever seen is semi-automatic. It just means all you have to do is pull the trigger once in between shots.

Getting a ban on all semi-autos is politically exactly as hard as getting a ban on all guns.

edit:

Trabisnikof posted:

Ah yes the classic "we forced you to make a loophole then exploited that loophole, ergo all regulation is ineffective"

...no, but nothing short of banning all semi-autos is going to make a significant difference in lethality, and that's far, far beyond politically untenable.

As I've said, I'm for the repeal of the second amendment, but there has yet to be a proposed new weapon ban that will do anything. What are the things you want a AWB to do?

theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 14, 2016

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:03

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

zoux posted:

We should ban semi automatic weapons.

Handguns and weapons designed to shoot high velocity (+3000 ft/s) rounds IMO.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:04

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

I'd argue that cosmetic aspects of various weapons contribute to the toxic gun fetishism in America, in the same way that Police increasingly using militarized weaponry may be effecting their responses to public unrest. A gun is not a toy. A gun is not to look "badassed." People say "Scary Black Weapons" as if it were some kind of defense against gun control advocates, but really it just points to their sad fetish for playing urban warrior.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:04

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

theflyingorc posted:

hahahahahahahahahahaha good luck.

Very nearly every single gun that you've ever seen is semi-automatic. It just means all you have to do is pull the trigger once in between shots.

Getting a ban on all semi-autos is politically exactly as hard as getting a ban on all guns.

Remind me, and I could be wrong but I am just asking questions here, but weren't you in the crowd that got real mad when people ITT pointed out that moving to a single-payer system was politically, incredibly difficult?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:04

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

theflyingorc posted:

hahahahahahahahahahaha good luck.

Very nearly every single gun that you've ever seen is semi-automatic. It just means all you have to do is pull the trigger once in between shots.

Getting a ban on all semi-autos is politically exactly as hard as getting a ban on all guns.

Now that we don't have a SCOTUS dedicated to forwarding the Republican agenda, our chances got a lot better.

But yeah if stuff's hard we should not do it. We chose to go to the moon because it was easy.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:05

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Can I dare hope that he chooses Sarah Palin?

His own daughter. He wants to gently caress her.

Something something offal and oval office pun.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:05

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

People should only be allowed to bear arms if they are protecting the security of a free state. Keep your gun at home unless you're fighting a war.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:06

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

Doctor Butts posted:

People should only be allowed to bear arms if they are protecting the security of a free state. Keep your gun at home unless you're fighting a war.

sovereign citizens are states unto themselves. checkmake, libtards :smug:

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:08

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

All guns should be like air soft rifles but instead of orange tips it must be colored either pink or neon purple and you have a choice of My Little Pony (classic not the new stuff), Gem, or Frozen character art that must cover 75% of the gun or it is in violation of the law and can't be sold or possessed. Sailor Moon or any other shoujo anime character can be requested but must be approved by committee.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:08

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Remind me, and I could be wrong but I am just asking questions here, but weren't you in the crowd that got real mad when people ITT pointed out that moving to a single-payer system was politically, incredibly difficult?

I don't believe I've ever discussed the merits of single payer or anything like that on Something Awful. I'm pretty ignorant on the minutia of various UHC paths so no, I don't think that was me.

zoux posted:

Now that we don't have a SCOTUS dedicated to forwarding the Republican agenda, our chances got a lot better.

But yeah if stuff's hard we should not do it. We chose to go to the moon because it was easy.

That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. If you ban all semi-autos you might as well ban all guns (which I'm for!), but that's not even slightly on the table. It's not even in the same room as the table, it might be in another country where tables haven't been invented. "Semi-auto" is really close to synonymous with "gun" for practical purposes.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:08

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

Talmonis posted:

I'd argue that cosmetic aspects of various weapons contribute to the toxic gun fetishism in America, in the same way that Police increasingly using militarized weaponry may be effecting their responses to public unrest. A gun is not a toy. A gun is not to look "badassed." People say "Scary Black Weapons" as if it were some kind of defense against gun control advocates, but really it just points to their sad fetish for playing urban warrior.

My man do you even know the difference between a clip and a magazine?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:08

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

theflyingorc posted:

hahahahahahahahahahaha good luck.

Very nearly every single gun that you've ever seen is semi-automatic. It just means all you have to do is pull the trigger once in between shots.

Getting a ban on all semi-autos is politically exactly as hard as getting a ban on all guns.

A revolver is not semi-automatic.

Bolt-action marksman rifles are not semi-automatic.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:09

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

emdash posted:

sovereign citizens are states unto themselves. checkmake, libtards

Sovereign Citizens are by definition Stateless. Therefore they do not have the right to keep or bear arms.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:09

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

theflyingorc posted:

I'm pretty ignorant on the minutia of

Oh like that's ever stopped anybody.

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/742780547169161217

What are they so happy about?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:10

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

theflyingorc posted:

I don't believe I've ever discussed the merits of single payer or anything like that on Something Awful. I'm pretty ignorant on the minutia of various UHC paths so no, I don't think that was me.

OKay, that's why I asked.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:10

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

People on the terrorist watch list should be allowed to purchase muzzle-loading weapons only.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:11

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/742780547169161217

What are they so happy about?

Trump drowning the republican party in a bathtub?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:11

Wakko: Jun 9, 2002; Faboo!

gradenko_2000 posted:

Rationally I know you're correct, of course. But in the moment I am just really quite angry and I don't begrudge Obama taking whatever steps are available to him for lack of any other option available within the legislative framework.

Maybe even tomorrow I'll agree with you again. Today not so much.

That's fair, I appreciate your honesty.

The weirdest thing about gun control debates in the USA is how gun control has become associated with liberalism in general. Taking away rights from people is really the conservative's ballgame in this country, racist conservatives having kicked off the modern gun control movement and all.

As a leftist, it feels like I'm perpetually in a bizarro world arguing against self-described liberals who you'd expect to be protecting liberty over safety, desperately wanting to limit rights to make people safer.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:12

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Trabisnikof posted:

People on the terrorist watch list should be allowed to purchase muzzle-loading weapons only.

There was a big dust up in WV a few years ago over whether disc riffles could be used during our muzzleloader season for deer. I maintain that if they won't let you use disc riffles, then you should only be allowed to use breachloading muskets.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:12

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

ComradeCosmobot posted:

A revolver is not semi-automatic.

Bolt-action marksman rifles are not semi-automatic.

I'm aware of that, but in terms of what people actually own and use, semi-auto isn't some special super gun like people pretend. The Venn diagram of "people who want guns" and "people who want semi-automatic guns" are 2 perfectly overlapping circles.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:12

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

PerniciousKnid posted:

Ban gun sales to the no fly list, get the NRA to lobby for eliminating the list, score one for liberals.

Edit: Is it possible Trump won't be able to find somebody willing to be his VP candidate?

The idea that Trump won't be able to find a VP seem weirdly dumb to me. There's already plenty of candidates on his team like Chris Christie, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Jeff Sessions, Sarah Palin, Scott Brown, and Newt Gingrich. Newt and Christie very much seem to be angling for it publicly.

The issue is there's no GOOD candidates who will actually help Trump unite the party or reach out to a demographic he's weak on, because they're all running away from him because he's so toxic to those very groups Trump is having trouble with. So he'll just end up doubling down with whoever it is and it won't help him move forward. The most one of these candidates can do is give an air of experience in government but half of them don't even do that.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:12

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

Trabisnikof posted:

People on the terrorist watch list should be allowed to purchase muzzle-loading weapons only.

People on the terrorist watch list should be sent to GOP re-education camps so they can learn how to message their views in a politically correct manner.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:13

Butch Cassidy: Jul 28, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

in the moment I am just really quite angry and I don't begrudge Obama taking whatever steps are available to him

A person being angry and having a moment of compromised personal ideals is fine. But allowing for those paid to professionally lead a country to allow those personal feelings to lash out in an attempt at public policy is not acceptable. The no-fly list is terrible on both its theoretical use as an extrajudicial political weapon and its real world hefty side order of bigotry.

When senator Ayotte inevitably calls for the shooter's wife to be tried outside of civilian courts, will you also be so understanding?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:13

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

zoux posted:

Oh like that's ever stopped anybody.

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/742780547169161217

What are they so happy about?

apparently the bernman is in there, so I guess he's toeing the line

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:13

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

theflyingorc posted:

I'm aware of that, but in terms of what people actually own and use, semi-auto isn't some special super gun like people pretend. The Venn diagram of "people who want guns" and "people who want semi-automatic guns" are 2 perfectly overlapping circles.

Maybe they don't need them?

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:13

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 14:28

ShredsYouSay: Sep 22, 2011; How's his widow holding up?

You should use melkors tagging plug in. Might be handy with all these folks with the same av.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 19:13

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